.

[marketersales]

Going to request a refund.

[1714949048]

1714949048

[mezzomix]

Good luck and prepare to write off that money if you paid with BTC.

[ninjaboon]

Well shit.

Has anyone gotten any CC refunds yet? I asked on 1-6 and of course nothing has shown up yet. I realize the BTC have gone out somewhat, so...anyone gotten anything on this front? Sad that my bank is closed till monday 

I made a CC refund last Wed and Dave sent an email saying it will be processed. No updates after that.

[dirtycat]

it appears this bASIC project was another "experiment that did not go right"

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=75091.msg941475#msg941475

[Bogart]

So I've noticed something about the flow of the BTC refunds that did show up, which makes me think that the funds were never in fact converted to USD.

I first paid 93.8326 BTC to 1CpZJF9jwbR3SZmk4i6HaPfp59VPpXAcP5 for my later order #1678 in this transaction:

http://blockchain.info/tx/4cff94125296a7d6e8a86e9ddc7681f2bfd203ea006e0dfa64edc3269a5e936b

A couple hours later the funds get swept into 19Ysizrie7XAGcqSTzhCTsMTuUaFU1hCEa, which seems a main BTCFPGA address.

Much later, my refund paid to 1upLmz8yxpzKCDpBGyVzu1Lv6vox7PMuQ gets paid from this same 19Ysiz address.

If you look up MichaelBliss's refund request address, 1CVmb947c2kGmQcQTjJFWAxMGRmEuLnnfW, you will see that a large part of his refund also came from the 19Ysiz address.

Now here's the bad part:

Remember Tom's 500 BTC bet that bASIC would ship in March?

So - Tipsy Tom instead of processing timely refunds is placing bets on his failures:

500 BTC of my Own coin says these units will be released by March
« on: Today at 12:06:34 PM »
just putting my money where my mouth is


http://betsofbitco.in/item?id=1138

Pathetic

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:Ah3W7i9L8GMJ:https://www.btcfpga.com/forum/index.php%3Ftopic%3D1039.0+http://betsofbitco.in/item%3Fid%3D1138&cd=4&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=safari

10-Jan 7:51 AM, 500.00 BTC move out of the 19Ysiz account: http://blockchain.info/tx/c290b3d26e5344b0dfc7545b083cc9d28aa607237e11fa7543287841464ee4de

10-Jan 12:06 PM (after some confirmations) Tom announces the 500 BTC bet made with "my Own coin"

I know this is based on some conjecture, but I think the evidence looks highly suspicious.  I think it's quite likely that those 500 BTC were from customer funds, or that he had everything mixed together (inappropriately).

The statement is not yet available for betting.  Maybe Dave intervened and had BoB not approve the bet and hold the funds or something.  Or maybe BoB staff themselves are watching what's going on and decided to do the same.

[itsgoldbaby]

So I've noticed something about the flow of the BTC refunds that did show up, which makes me think that the funds were never in fact converted to USD.

I first paid 93.8326 BTC to 1CpZJF9jwbR3SZmk4i6HaPfp59VPpXAcP5 for my later order #1678 in this transaction:

http://blockchain.info/tx/4cff94125296a7d6e8a86e9ddc7681f2bfd203ea006e0dfa64edc3269a5e936b

A couple hours later the funds get swept into 19Ysizrie7XAGcqSTzhCTsMTuUaFU1hCEa, which seems a main BTCFPGA address.

Much later, my refund paid to 1upLmz8yxpzKCDpBGyVzu1Lv6vox7PMuQ gets paid from this same 19Ysiz address.

If you look up MichaelBliss's refund request address, 1CVmb947c2kGmQcQTjJFWAxMGRmEuLnnfW, you will see that a large part of his refund also came from the 19Ysiz address.

Now here's the bad part:

Remember Tom's 500 BTC bet that bASIC would ship in March?

So - Tipsy Tom instead of processing timely refunds is placing bets on his failures:

500 BTC of my Own coin says these units will be released by March
« on: Today at 12:06:34 PM »
just putting my money where my mouth is


http://betsofbitco.in/item?id=1138

Pathetic

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:Ah3W7i9L8GMJ:https://www.btcfpga.com/forum/index.php%3Ftopic%3D1039.0+http://betsofbitco.in/item%3Fid%3D1138&cd=4&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=safari

11-Jan 7:51 AM, 500.00 BTC move out of the 19Ysiz account: http://blockchain.info/tx/c290b3d26e5344b0dfc7545b083cc9d28aa607237e11fa7543287841464ee4de

11-Jan 12:06 PM (after some confirmations) Tom announces the 500 BTC bet made with "my Own coin"

I know this is based on some conjecture, but I think the evidence looks highly suspicious.  I think it's quite likely that those 500 BTC were from customer funds, or that he had everything mixed together (inappropriately).

The statement is not yet available for betting.  Maybe Dave intervened and had BoB not approve the bet and hold the funds or something.  Or maybe BoB staff themselves are watching what's going on and decided to do the same.

Oh man, this is becoming worse and worse each day.

[jamesg]

Oh man, this is becoming worse and worse each day.

I wonder what ever happened to those prototypes....

[Luke-Jr]

So I've noticed something about the flow of the BTC refunds that did show up, which makes me think that the funds were never in fact converted to USD.

This is irrelevant. The price of the product (to buyers, and on the material end) is USD. If Tom or BTCFPGA decided to take the risk of keeping the income in Bitcoin, that risk - and any potential gains/losses - is his.

I know this is based on some conjecture, but I think the evidence looks highly suspicious.  I think it's quite likely that those 500 BTC were from customer funds, or that he had everything mixed together (inappropriately).

I think it is highly likely he had everything mixed together - but why is this automatically assumed to be inappropriate? MtGox certainly stores all the user balances together, and bitcoind does so even if you have separate accounts setup. Perhaps ideally, things might be different, but that doesn't change the reality or realistic expectations.

[sgravina]

I've now asked for a refund.  On the positive side bASICs bitcoins are easily found.  My 9/29/12 payment went to 19Ysizrie7XAGcqSTzhCTsMTuUaFU1hCEa.  A ton of money was paid out of that address on 1/11/2012.  At least one of them is a bASIC refund reported here.  There is currently 1,555.9054 BTC at that address.  That is enough to pay me back.

Sam

[Bogart]

So I've noticed something about the flow of the BTC refunds that did show up, which makes me think that the funds were never in fact converted to USD.

This is irrelevant. The price of the product (to buyers, and on the material end) is USD. If Tom or BTCFPGA decided to take the risk of keeping the income in Bitcoin, that risk - and any potential gains/losses - is his.

True.  I'm just pointing out that they appear to never have been converted, contrary to some opinions.

I know this is based on some conjecture, but I think the evidence looks highly suspicious.  I think it's quite likely that those 500 BTC were from customer funds, or that he had everything mixed together (inappropriately).

I think it is highly likely he had everything mixed together - but why is this automatically assumed to be inappropriate? MtGox certainly stores all the user balances together, and bitcoind does so even if you have separate accounts setup. Perhaps ideally, things might be different, but that doesn't change the reality or realistic expectations.

I dunno, I don't think it's too appropriate to keep business and personal funds mixed together in the same account in these kind of large amounts.  Maybe you disagree.

I concede that I'm guilty of the same when it comes to my tiny USD-based business.  But I don't hold massive amounts of pre-order funds.  The risk is all mine.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

I've now asked for a refund.  On the positive side bASICs bitcoins are easily found.  My 9/29/12 payment went to 19Ysizrie7XAGcqSTzhCTsMTuUaFU1hCEa.  A ton of money was paid out of that address on 1/11/2012.  At least one of them is a bASIC refund reported here.  There is currently 1,555.9054 BTC at that address.  That is enough to pay me back.

Sam

I discovered the same when MichaelBliss got refunded and was surprised he didn't mention this fact, especially after his diatribe on wanting the exact amount back. http://blockchain.info/tx/4f895ed5fb5b29d1e8d5cf1b21f0b21a5aac6797b6e90ff7748d9a77b7f907b2

Lukas seems to be in position to take over bASICs operation if the assets are there: http://www.linkedin.com/in/lukasbradley

[crazyates]

So I've noticed something about the flow of the BTC refunds that did show up, which makes me think that the funds were never in fact converted to USD.

This is irrelevant. The price of the product (to buyers, and on the material end) is USD. If Tom or BTCFPGA decided to take the risk of keeping the income in Bitcoin, that risk - and any potential gains/losses - is his.

To me, the issue is really that if he didn't convert the BTC to USD, how were the ASIC R&D funded? Tom collects BTC and then pays for the chips development out of his own USD profits from the MMQ? Seems unlikely, as that can bet pretty expensive I would imagine.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

Perhaps the coins were being stored in one address as an ego thing: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=92423.msg1018953#msg1018953

So I've noticed something about the flow of the BTC refunds that did show up, which makes me think that the funds were never in fact converted to USD.

This is irrelevant. The price of the product (to buyers, and on the material end) is USD. If Tom or BTCFPGA decided to take the risk of keeping the income in Bitcoin, that risk - and any potential gains/losses - is his.

To me, the issue is really that if he didn't convert the BTC to USD, how were the ASIC R&D funded? Tom collects BTC and then pays for the chips development out of his own USD profits from the MMQ? Seems unlikely, as that can bet pretty expensive I would imagine.

Unless no monies were dispersed to any entity.

[crazyates]

AFAIK, BFL is not in the position where one person can crash their entire system. It's still a small company, but you don't get to 25 employees by making mistakes like that.

I'm not a fan of MPOE-PR but here's the best description of BFL that I've seen:

BFL is a marketing company (and an incredibly poor one, in many aspects). Their business is keeping those Google ads up and siphoning the incoming money into more or less safe holes. Everything else is everyone else's problem.

Think about it.

It's well known that Inaba and MPOE-PR bicker back and forth here on the forums. In the past 48 hours, MPOE-PR has called BFL a flat out scam more than once, and Inaba has called MPOE-PR a self-overvalued POS company with no authority to speak on BFL matters.

I don't think they're a scam, but that's my opinion. I really don't know enough about MPOE-PR's business to make an opinion of their value. However, I will agree with Inaba on the point that MPEO-PR has no right to make statements like the one you quoted. How did they determine that BFL is a marketing company? They're a hardware company - they even said so themselves. It just makes no sense. That's like saying Sandisk is a marketing company, because hey, I've seen an add for them in the past!

[Starlightbreaker]

Lukas seems to be in position to take over bASICs operation if the assets are there: http://www.linkedin.com/in/lukasbradley

dat glorious mustache

[Beaflag VonRathburg]

Well shit.

Has anyone gotten any CC refunds yet? I asked on 1-6 and of course nothing has shown up yet. I realize the BTC have gone out somewhat, so...anyone gotten anything on this front? Sad that my bank is closed till monday 

I made a CC refund last Wed and Dave sent an email saying it will be processed. No updates after that.

I sent mine just now, but will not be waiting more than a few days to process a charge back. I suggest you start thinking along the same lines.

[rampone]

I am out, too. Requested Refund 5 min ago. Feeling a bit buddfact. Still I believe, Tom worked in good faith.

1NpZwAn2m9nnKVuoZWwQgkKcKBkKD2tNNv is the address, if someone wants to make looky looky.

Damn, wished it would have gone down differently, but too many PR mistakes fuelled the refunds.

And Damn BFL and Basic. Oneself probably would have made an asic by now?!?!?

[jwzguy]

So I've noticed something about the flow of the BTC refunds that did show up, which makes me think that the funds were never in fact converted to USD.

This is irrelevant. The price of the product (to buyers, and on the material end) is USD. If Tom or BTCFPGA decided to take the risk of keeping the income in Bitcoin, that risk - and any potential gains/losses - is his.

To me, the issue is really that if he didn't convert the BTC to USD, how were the ASIC R&D funded? Tom collects BTC and then pays for the chips development out of his own USD profits from the MMQ? Seems unlikely, as that can bet pretty expensive I would imagine.

If the BTC wasn't converted to USD, seems like there is ZERO justification for giving partial refunds.

[Sigma]

I am out, too. Requested Refund 5 min ago. Feeling a bit buddfact. Still I believe, Tom worked in good faith.

1NpZwAn2m9nnKVuoZWwQgkKcKBkKD2tNNv is the address, if someone wants to make looky looky.

Damn, wished it would have gone down differently, but too many PR mistakes fuelled the refunds.

And Damn BFL and Basic. Oneself probably would have made an asic by now?!?!?

I also think Tom was trying his best honestly. I consider it more of a failure as a startup rather than a scam,
at least at this point.

[MichaelBliss]

So I've noticed something about the flow of the BTC refunds that did show up, which makes me think that the funds were never in fact converted to USD.

This is irrelevant. The price of the product (to buyers, and on the material end) is USD. If Tom or BTCFPGA decided to take the risk of keeping the income in Bitcoin, that risk - and any potential gains/losses - is his.

Except it's not really 50/50 as I've said before; we all expect bitcoin will more likely go up, than down don't we?  So it's not quite like you say.  In his last email to me, Dave apologized that I lost BTC through that exchange, AND promised that he's working to get everyone back their money, AND if the project still produces, he's pledged to give returning customers a chance to recoup the loss.

Like I said, I count myself extremely lucky that I got the BTC back at all.  The arguments about pricing in USD, risk either way BLAH BLAH don't hold any water if we were mis-informed and if no product was actually produced and our money was squandered on beer and gambling for example...   (or to pay for plane tickets and a hideout somewhere perhaps)