.

[100%digital]

Tom trying to save/earn money by delaying BTC refunds as long as possible?

...request refund on Monday (01-14-12), sent follow up on (01-16-12) haven't received a response. I paid via BTC ~90 (was trading at 11.80) totally feel like i'm getting jacked, regarding BTC/USD conversion. ...however the product was clearly priced in USD, but leaves a really bad taste.


FU Tom. FU.

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[mining4fun11]

At some point if the funds aren't returned I would contact the New York Attorney general and have them start looking into a case of credit card fraud. 

Sounds exciting, but do you honestly consider this fraud?  C'mon, honestly? Tom delivered FPGA products before. He was running the whole thing like a somewhat profitable hobby. Then ASICs became an option, and he bit more then he can chew. He folded under pressure, and acted like an idiot on few occasions. Obviously, some people are getting refunds. Is everyone going to get their money back? We don't know. Is he (and others from his former team) trying? Obviously, yes. Was he competent and able to deliver ASIC products? Obviously no. Was this fraud?  No. See above.

From my understanding you can't use pre-order money to run your business.  All the funds should have been sitting in an account, meaning everybody should be able to get a refund.   If they are not then there is a possible case of fraud here. 

[MeSarah]

https://plus.google.com/photos/107082417778531020969/albums

So after a bit of searching I found this video of Tom's lovely wife..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nTwWp-0SfVw&list=FLqfXuai2TnWBnyqLZBQXuqQ

Pick on Tom all you want, I certainly don't care. If he cares he'll probably show up and put you in your place...again. I just think it's in bad taste to diss the man's wife.

Precisely my point. People say stupid shit like this BECAUSE they expect to be protected by anonymity. Think the drag queen MeSarah would be bashing on Tom's wife if he was standing next to him? Uh no. Just another coward.

@ Creativex, I see your point. Calling Tom's wife 'lovely' is indeed in poor taste. What term would you suggest Creativex, sow? Tom putting me in my place, ha. Creativex, you can't show a single time let alone multiple times that Tom has ever 'put me in my place'. Go ahead and try but be sure to include the full context so one can't question if your intent is to deceive.

Creativex, do you know what a 'Freudian slip' is? So using your logic you are expecting your anonymity to protect you. Fuq'n hypocrite. The only person mentioned in this conversation proven to be a coward is Tom. When tough questions began to be ask of Tom he runs away and starts his own forum where he deletes tough question being asked of him. When Tom's ASIC venture blows up in his face he avoids the forums only logging on to propagandize for Avalon so the deal in the works between Tom and Avalon doesn't fall apart. When Tom can't handle a situation Tom get someone else to do his dirty work like Dave or the Avalon team. So if Tom's history is prologue, I could expect Tom would have his wife sit on me squashing me to death while he ran away.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xh8LPA6rMjA

Creativex, if you know how I would act then you know my video posting was humor so your just creating drama for the popcorn affect.

Classy move bud.

[creativex]

Welcome to the ignore list, troll in drag.

//ignore MeSarah

[Unacceptable]

Welcome to the ignore list, troll in drag.

//ignore MeSarah

I think is a first    A troll ignoring a troll   

[Nemesis]

Pick on Tom all you want, I certainly don't care. If he cares he'll probably show up and put you in your place...again. I just think it's in bad taste to diss the man's wife.

Grown the fck up. Gee... Its the internet, ppl can make fun of your mom.

Precisely my point. People say stupid shit like this BECAUSE they expect to be protected by anonymity. Think the drag queen MeSarah would be bashing on Tom's wife if he was standing next to him? Uh no. Just another coward.

My statement isnt about anonymity. Dont misunderstand.
Internet is a place where to can find ppl's real thought, not just trolling. If you married a fugly girl, i'm sure everyone in your circles would say shes fine.

Heck if Tom doesnt refund someones money, i bet he would be afraid to stand next to them. You talk about reality but in the context to make you sound right?

I'm not Tom's customer. So i dont have any grief against him. But if he scammed me or made me lost my money, he shouldnt worry about me making fun of his fat wife. I can use authorities, or i can accept the lost and beat the crap out of him.

[creativex]

I'm a bASIC pre-order customer replying in a thread about bASIC products.

I post my opinions about BFL in BFL threads because I think such a shady hardware vendor having such a huge market share is alarming, call that trolling if you like. I'll call myself a troll if I decide to post a video of Josh's kids, just don't hold your breath.

[MeSarah]

Creativex, you can't show a single time let alone multiple times that Tom has ever 'put me in my place'. Go ahead and try but be sure to include the full context so one can't question if your intent is to deceive.

Again I have been proven right. Creativex, run away, run away. That is something you and Tom have in common Creativex. But I guess when you use logic against someone who has no logic what else can you expect from them but to run away and find a hiding place under an ignore button. I suppose now Creativex you have proven your self the coward you claimed I was.

Greyhawk has one of the best postings ever to be quoted:

All hail the mighty ignore list, silencer of dissention, censor of questions, ensurer of the one true path.

Yae, though I walk through the forums of BTC,
I fear no fud, for thou art with me,
thy silence and blanking, they comfort me.

[Unacceptable]

Creativex, you can't show a single time let alone multiple times that Tom has ever 'put me in my place'. Go ahead and try but be sure to include the full context so one can't question if your intent is to deceive.

Again I have been proven right. Creativex, run away, run away. That is something you and Tom have in common Creativex. But I guess when you use logic against someone who has no logic what else can you expect from them but to run away and find a hiding place under an ignore button. I suppose now Creativex you have proven your self the coward you claimed I was.

Greyhawk has one of the best postings ever to be quoted:

All hail the mighty ignore list, silencer of dissention, censor of questions, ensurer of the one true path.

Yae, though I walk through the forums of BTC,
I fear no fud, for thou art with me,
thy silence and blanking, they comfort me.

[Bogart]

At some point if the funds aren't returned I would contact the New York Attorney general and have them start looking into a case of credit card fraud.  

Sounds exciting, but do you honestly consider this fraud?  C'mon, honestly? Tom delivered FPGA products before. He was running the whole thing like a somewhat profitable hobby. Then ASICs became an option, and he bit more then he can chew. He folded under pressure, and acted like an idiot on few occasions. Obviously, some people are getting refunds. Is everyone going to get their money back? We don't know. Is he (and others from his former team) trying? Obviously, yes. Was he competent and able to deliver ASIC products? Obviously no. Was this fraud?  No. See above.

Were refunds promised to anyone who requested one?

Yes: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=79637.msg1163190#msg1163190

If this promise is not honored, I would call that fraud.

[dmcurser]

says refunds being processed yet no changes on my account. and every min the price of btc is going up so i am losing more money. i only say this since i request my refund monday im only asking to pay payed per btc at the exchange rate it was at when i reqested refund.

[crazy_rabbit]

At some point if the funds aren't returned I would contact the New York Attorney general and have them start looking into a case of credit card fraud.  

Sounds exciting, but do you honestly consider this fraud?  C'mon, honestly? Tom delivered FPGA products before. He was running the whole thing like a somewhat profitable hobby. Then ASICs became an option, and he bit more then he can chew. He folded under pressure, and acted like an idiot on few occasions. Obviously, some people are getting refunds. Is everyone going to get their money back? We don't know. Is he (and others from his former team) trying? Obviously, yes. Was he competent and able to deliver ASIC products? Obviously no. Was this fraud?  No. See above.

Were refunds promised to anyone who requested one?

Yes: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=79637.msg1163190#msg1163190

If this promise is not honored, I would call that fraud.

No, it's bankruptcy.

Unless you can prove he tried to cheat you on purpose (which doesn't seem to be the case) then it's a failure of his business. If he doesn't have enough money to pay back all the refunds, then it's bankruptcy. Most business fail, the success story is rare. But if you can't prove willful intention to deceive, and you don't actually have real proof of this, then don't potentially set yourself up for libel.

I'm not saying you are- but for others who are considering saying anything about Tom without thinking first, remember Theymos will give your data over to a court if asked. If for example he has committed no fraud, but is just in a difficult business situation- a situation made more difficult to get out of because of people saying untrue things (like saying without proof it's a scam or it's fraud) then his lawyers could make a very solid case that the damage to his reputation based on false claims of fraud prevented him from successful reorganization of his business and caused him to fall into bankruptcy. The people who posted falsely that he was a fraud could then be held monetarily liable.  

Libel and Slander- while standard fare and par for course on the internet, is a serious thing.

[Sitarow]

Libel and Slander- while standard fare and par for course on the internet, is a serious thing.

+1

[mezzomix]

@all who paid Tom with BTC: Just wait a little bit and refunding your order is peanuts for Tom.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

At some point if the funds aren't returned I would contact the New York Attorney general and have them start looking into a case of credit card fraud.  

Sounds exciting, but do you honestly consider this fraud?  C'mon, honestly? Tom delivered FPGA products before. He was running the whole thing like a somewhat profitable hobby. Then ASICs became an option, and he bit more then he can chew. He folded under pressure, and acted like an idiot on few occasions. Obviously, some people are getting refunds. Is everyone going to get their money back? We don't know. Is he (and others from his former team) trying? Obviously, yes. Was he competent and able to deliver ASIC products? Obviously no. Was this fraud?  No. See above.

Were refunds promised to anyone who requested one?

Yes: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=79637.msg1163190#msg1163190

If this promise is not honored, I would call that fraud.

No, it's bankruptcy.

Unless you can prove he tried to cheat you on purpose (which doesn't seem to be the case) then it's a failure of his business. If he doesn't have enough money to pay back all the refunds, then it's bankruptcy. Most business fail, the success story is rare. But if you can't prove willful intention to deceive, and you don't actually have real proof of this, then don't potentially set yourself up for libel.

I'm not saying you are- but for others who are considering saying anything about Tom without thinking first, remember Theymos will give your data over to a court if asked. If for example he has committed no fraud, but is just in a difficult business situation- a situation made more difficult to get out of because of people saying untrue things (like saying without proof it's a scam or it's fraud) then his lawyers could make a very solid case that the damage to his reputation based on false claims of fraud prevented him from successful reorganization of his business and caused him to fall into bankruptcy. The people who posted falsely that he was a fraud could then be held monetarily liable.  

Libel and Slander- while standard fare and par for course on the internet, is a serious thing.

Let me get this straight. A person can start a company with intent to fraud. They collect pre-order funds while stringing the customer along. At some point, the customers start claiming fraud and the business starts to go under. The shop is closed as people bring the owner to court. The lawyer argues that the business failed due to the customers and others claiming it was a fraud. The business owner then is able to sue those who claimed fraud for damages.

If this is correct, what a beautiful business model.

[dmcurser]

@all who paid Tom with BTC: Just wait a little bit and refunding your order is peanuts for Tom.

no the refund should be proccesed time of refund request.
 the exchange rate should be at that time not when they fell like getting to it.
as i have already stated i request a refund monday still have not recived it or any news on it.
since then the price of btc has jump nearly 2 dollars there is no way in hell they can pay me out at the rate now they owe me payment at the rate at time of my refund request.

[MrTeal]

At some point if the funds aren't returned I would contact the New York Attorney general and have them start looking into a case of credit card fraud.  

Sounds exciting, but do you honestly consider this fraud?  C'mon, honestly? Tom delivered FPGA products before. He was running the whole thing like a somewhat profitable hobby. Then ASICs became an option, and he bit more then he can chew. He folded under pressure, and acted like an idiot on few occasions. Obviously, some people are getting refunds. Is everyone going to get their money back? We don't know. Is he (and others from his former team) trying? Obviously, yes. Was he competent and able to deliver ASIC products? Obviously no. Was this fraud?  No. See above.

Were refunds promised to anyone who requested one?

Yes: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=79637.msg1163190#msg1163190

If this promise is not honored, I would call that fraud.

No, it's bankruptcy.

Unless you can prove he tried to cheat you on purpose (which doesn't seem to be the case) then it's a failure of his business. If he doesn't have enough money to pay back all the refunds, then it's bankruptcy. Most business fail, the success story is rare. But if you can't prove willful intention to deceive, and you don't actually have real proof of this, then don't potentially set yourself up for libel.

I'm not saying you are- but for others who are considering saying anything about Tom without thinking first, remember Theymos will give your data over to a court if asked. If for example he has committed no fraud, but is just in a difficult business situation- a situation made more difficult to get out of because of people saying untrue things (like saying without proof it's a scam or it's fraud) then his lawyers could make a very solid case that the damage to his reputation based on false claims of fraud prevented him from successful reorganization of his business and caused him to fall into bankruptcy. The people who posted falsely that he was a fraud could then be held monetarily liable.  

Libel and Slander- while standard fare and par for course on the internet, is a serious thing.

Let me get this straight. A person can start a company with intent to fraud. They collect pre-order funds while stringing the customer along. At some point, the customers start claiming fraud and the business starts to go under. The shop is closed as people bring the owner to court. The lawyer argues that the business failed due to the customers and others claiming it was a fraud. The business owner then is able to sue those who claimed fraud for damages.

If this is correct, what a beautiful business model.

This is the exact opposite of what he said.

[RoboCoder]

To be honest, I think people have become a lot more rude in real life as a sort of flow on effect of not applying a filter to what they say online.  People have become used to venting every little frustration online and it seems to diminish the capacity of many to deal with frustration or disappointment in real life in a non-confrontational manner.

+1  More 'ludes for everyone!  (me first)

[crazy_rabbit]

@all who paid Tom with BTC: Just wait a little bit and refunding your order is peanuts for Tom.

no the refund should be proccesed time of refund request the exchange rate should be of that time not when they fell like getting to it as i have already stated i request a refund monday still have not recived it or any news on it since then the price of btc has jump nearly 2 dollars there is no way in hell they can pay me out at the rate now they owe me payment at the rate at time of my refund request.

That is really hard to understand what you mean. Please try to break that up into sentences.

[repentance]

@all who paid Tom with BTC: Just wait a little bit and refunding your order is peanuts for Tom.

no the refund should be proccesed time of refund request.
 the exchange rate should be at that time not when they fell like getting to it.
as i have already stated i request a refund monday still have not recived it or any news on it.
since then the price of btc has jump nearly 2 dollars there is no way in hell they can pay me out at the rate now they owe me payment at the rate at time of my refund request.

I'm not sure what the exchange rate has to do with this.  People who paid in BTC are being refunded in BTC and people who paid in USD are being refunded in USD.