280 BTC total bets between Micon and mrb (are BFL ASICs real?)

[SgtSpike]

BFL will not ship by march, that appears true at least.

And how does that appear true?  What are you basing your statement on? The fact that the chips are here and in the bumping process. This does not seem so sure for me.

He's basing it on the fact that Josh won't take Micon's bet that BFL will deliver to 5 people (who will provide proof of it) by March 15th. I think Josh won't take Micon's bet because he wants to prove that Micon no longer believes BFL to be a scam.

[JordanL]

I just have to testify...

I've been lurking along with this thread because I find the technology, software, drama, and bets interesting.

But this Josh guy who is a COO of BFL?

He comes of as a giant tool.  If I was a person who had spent money on one of these boxes in advance it would make me very uncomfortable seeing him prance around acting like this.

just my B.02

this

[Micon]

But Josh changed the terms of the bet quite a bit.  For one thing he changed the end date from this month or Mar 15th to December 31st 2013.

Also his device is transparent.  He is saying: "No, I will not take your carefully thought out 20BTC bet.  Instead I will counter with a different bet with different terms for 100x the amount you offered. And if you don't take it, then you are a liar.".

First of all this smells like a bluff.  But nonetheless noone is going to take a $50k bet with basically no terms in a couple of posts in a forum thread.  It's posturing.  It's obvious BS.

But I suppose it isn't obvious to everyone.

Since Josh Zerlan of JoshZerlan.com decided to have bumping day #2 on what used to be a very civil betting thread until he devoted much time to trolling here, instead of doing whatever it is he is supposed to be doing to get millions of dollars of pre-ordered mining hardware shipping, I'm going to have to destroy his latest desperate denial-filled post line by line:

Of course he's back peddling and changing his tune now  

you literally say the opposite of what is true, and scream it over and over until you think you are right.  Since you started trolling, instead of backpeddling, I instead bet 25 more coins that you are a liar and running a scam company.  You are off the reservation bucko.  And again instead of backpeddling, I keep asking you personally to bet 20 coins on the statements you made here:  https://forums.butterflylabs.com/announcements/692-bfl-asic-status.html  and you just keep refusing.  You can win a cool $500 from me (and from JoshZerlan.com, the official sponsor of this bet thread)

that it's painfully obvious to anyone with half a brain that BFL is no scam.

yes.  Painfully obvious BFL is legit.  They have collected millions, shipped no ASICs, and continue to take pre-orders, as many as who wants to order.  All day long.  Across all marketing channels.  Painfully obvious.  Anyone with half-a-brain.  I seriously don't think you are reading the same thread as the rest of us.

He's trying to astroturf his earlier stupidity by covering up the fact that he's claimed BFL is a scam and that we are going to run off with everyones money.

Bryan Micon is a liar and a scammer, end of story.  

I think that's more than enough proof.  Case closed.

If he really believed what he was saying, as you say, he would jump at the chance to win nearly $60,000 US from me, since I am willing and able to escrow 2000 BTC.  

From:  Planet Earth
To:  Josh Zerlan
Subject:  Reality
Body:  you have not proved that you control 2000 coins in this thread yet.  Micon has offered you a 20 coin bet at terms from your words:  https://forums.butterflylabs.com/announcements/692-bfl-asic-status.html and you refuse to take it.

Hell, I'm even willing to do 100 BTC but he won't take that bet, either, because he knows it's a losing bet and everything he's said is a lie.

He'll do 2000 or 100, but Josh Zerlan won't bet me 20 coins at my terms which are based on his statements.

[Inaba]

Your tenuous grasp on reality is pretty hilarious Micon.  Lets look at your arguments here:

Since Josh Zerlan of JoshZerlan.com decided to have bumping day #2 on what used to be a very civil betting thread until he devoted much time to trolling here, instead of doing whatever it is he is supposed to be doing to get millions of dollars of pre-ordered mining hardware shipping, I'm going to have to destroy his latest desperate denial-filled post line by line:

I am not Josh Zerlan of Joshzerlan.com.  You registered the domain and applied my name to it, I have exactly zero to do with your stalker website.  That is all on you, buddy.  Your additional fallacy in this quote is that I somehow must need to be doing something other than posting responses to your increasingly lunatic ramblings about how BFL is a scam, even though all the evidence points to the contrary.  It's a pretty pathetic strawman intended to draw attention away from the fact that you have been lying and continue to lie to people about BFL being a scam.  "B-b-b-but why are you arguing with me on the forums instead of working on your ASICS?!  B-b-b-ut stop exposing my lies!"  I can see the lower lip quiver and pouting you must be doing now.  The fact that you can't even see how ridiculous this argument is further lends credence to the fact that you either have an agenda to push or your just plain stupid.  It's a tough call either way.

you literally say the opposite of what is true, and scream it over and over until you think you are right.  Since you started trolling, instead of backpeddling, I instead bet 25 more coins that you are a liar and running a scam company.  You are off the reservation bucko.  And again instead of backpeddling, I keep asking you personally to bet 20 coins on the statements you made here:  https://forums.butterflylabs.com/announcements/692-bfl-asic-status.html  and you just keep refusing.  You can win a cool $500 from me (and from JoshZerlan.com, the official sponsor of this bet thread)

I literally say the opposite of what is true?  Really?  Lets see:

I say:  Bryan Micon claims BFL is a scam.  

You are now telling me you don't think BFL is a scam, is that correct?  

yes.  Painfully obvious BFL is legit.  They have collected millions, shipped no ASICs, and continue to take pre-orders, as many as who wants to order.  All day long.  Across all marketing channels.  Painfully obvious.  Anyone with half-a-brain.  I seriously don't think you are reading the same thread as the rest of us.

Ooops!  I guess that's not what you are saying.  So lets see... if I say "Bryan Micon says BFL is a scam." and yet you somehow claim that what I am saying is exactly opposite of true, what are you saying?  You are contradicting yourself in your own post, not two sentences apart.  What are you trying to say, Bryan?  Because nobody can follow your tortured and twisted chain of illogic.

Bryan Micon is a liar and a scammer, end of story.  

I think that's more than enough proof.  Case closed.

Wow, the first honest, true thing you've said so far.  You are right, it's more than enough proof that you are a liar and a scammer.  Case closed indeed.

From:  Planet Earth
To:  Josh Zerlan
Subject:  Reality
Body:  you have not proved that you control 2000 coins in this thread yet.  Micon has offered you a 20 coin bet at terms from your words:  https://forums.butterflylabs.com/announcements/692-bfl-asic-status.html and you refuse to take it.

I can easily prove it if you will take me up on the bet.  I have absolutely no problem transferring the funds around on the block chain so you can see that I control at least that many coins.  I mean, if you think I won't bet you 2000 BTC, then escrow the coins Bryan and when I default, you can call me a liar and a scammer.  But we both know you won't take me up on the bet, because it's you, Bryan Micon the liar.  Bryan Micon the scammer.  We both know what you are.  This post you've made is excellent, it shows exactly what kind of a liar you are, too!

Bet me 2000 BTC Bryan. I have the coins and I am willing to bet.  Hell, bet me 100 BTC.  You won't bet either of those, because you are a liar.  Prove me wrong.

He'll do 2000 or 100, but Josh Zerlan won't bet me 20 coins at my terms which are based on his statements.

I am betting you 2000 or even 100 BTC based on YOUR statements.  You state, quite explicitly that BFL is a scam.  I am telling you to back up your statement with BTC, you are refusing.  Why would you refuse?  Because you know you're lying. If you really believed your statements, you'd be jumping all over the chance to make nearly $60,000 or even $3000 from me, but in either case you are hemming and hawing and crying about the terms of the bet, because you know your statements are a lie.

[Micon]

Your tenuous grasp on reality is pretty hilarious Micon.  Lets look at your arguments here:

so you pretty much say whatever I just called you out on then go on what appears to be a drug-fueled rant of some sort then i guess go back to posting on BFL forums about how hot the bumping was today.

you got a lot of balls comin' round these parts.  And I'm talking about Las Vegas.  You don't come to the gambling capital of the world looking to scam, it's just sort of frowned upon where I live.

You are holding tons of btc community monies.  You promised product ~8 months ago.  You are trolling up a betting thread, all while telling some tall tale over on the BFL forums about how the fanboxes are going to get chips, but you just can't take any pictures of them and, well, just keep shipping the pre-orders like a bauce!

your posts are dripping in desperation and deep-fried in denial.  

Re-reading one of Navarro's best posts, Josh Zerlan exhibits a multitude of these traits:

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/spycatcher/201301/are-you-being-manipulated-social-puppeteer

oh, and if you are still racking that noodle for why I would ever register your full name and rank all over google for your pathetic scammer ass it's because after meeting you in person, it appears you are nothing but a bully.  And I've been watching a lot of PSAs recently, and the sentiment out there is extremely anti-bully right now.  Always hip with the times, when I see a bully like you speaking some bullshit about some vaporware at CES, I'm going to call you out on it.  Had you been a gentleman scammer, showed me your wares like what you are supposed to do, skeptic or no, gave me your best snake oil salesman song & dance, then I wouldn't have blown you up like I am currently doing.  Clearly it seems to be irritating you.  Perfect response to you trying to bully me at CES 2013:

4400+ views!
http://youtu.be/UlWrmIqGs3Y?t=2m41s

[Micon]

I will bet 10 coins that this statement is false:

"Butterfly Labs will deliver at least 3 working ASIC devices to customers by 3/20/2013, confirmed via pictures that are mining at an efficiency greater than 350 Mhash/Joule"

If anyone is a serious believer in BFL & their ability to deliver 3+ units 1 month from now and wants to bet on it, I will bet the other side.

We can use C's escrow tool, idk if we even need C anymore - just a trusted escrow

[BTCOnetime]

4)  Josh Zerlan has backed down from a 20 coin bet that is within his posted timeline.  This should scare most of you with pre-orders: that the man posting the timeline won't bet 20 coins on the timeline he posted.  Oh yeah, and the 2nd independent ASIC maker started mining.   Meaning even if BFL did ship on the fairytale timeline that Zerlan is telling, they would come to market 3rd.  and remember Josh won't bet on it.  

It doesn't scare me.  Josh isn't taking your bet on principle. You've been calling BFL a scam all this time, that they were just going to take everyone's money and never deliver anything.  And now, it appears you're changing your mind, and you believe BFL WILL deliver something, just that it might be delayed further.  Josh wants you to admit that you were wrong about BFL being a scam and that you now only want to bet on how soon they will deliver.

So, you're trying to call Josh out on the ship date.  Josh is trying to call you out on BFL not being a scam.  And neither side is willing to give.  You both have valid points that the other side isn't willing to take the bet, because, theoretically, either bet would match the beliefs of both of you.  But both of you want the other side to admit that they were wrong about their initial beliefs.

I respectfully disagree.

1)  based on Josh's own posted timeline, he should easily win the bet I offered.  

2)  based on JoshZerlan.com, if Josh Zerlan believed his own timeline he would likely jump at the chance to win 20 of my coins.  Ask yourself that one - why wouldn't he just take my monies?

To counter:

1) Based on your own accusations of BFL being a scam who will never ship, you should easily win the bet he offered.

2) If you believe your own statements that BFL is a scam, you would likely jump at the chance to win 2000 coins.  Why wouldn't you just take his monies?

Like I said, it goes both ways...

Thank you SgtSpike.  You have summed up the entire problem with Bryan Micon's lying and scammy behavior in a simple post.  Of course he's back peddling and changing his tune now that it's painfully obvious to anyone with half a brain that BFL is no scam.  He's trying to astroturf his earlier stupidity by covering up the fact that he's claimed BFL is a scam and that we are going to run off with everyones money.  Bryan Micon is a liar and a scammer, end of story.  If he really believed what he was saying, as you say, he would jump at the chance to win nearly $60,000 US from me, since I am willing and able to escrow 2000 BTC.  Hell, I'm even willing to do 100 BTC but he won't take that bet, either, because he knows it's a losing bet and everything he's said is a lie.

I'm not as eloquent as most of you here, but I must respond...

I just read through the entire post, and I am thoroughly entertained, as well as disgusted.  Capslock's post says it very well, and maybe I'm missing something here, but how exactly is it "painfully obvious to anyone with half a brain that BFL is no scam"?  I would really like a direct answer to this.  I have not seen one shred of evidence, much less proof, that BFL's promise of ASIC's is not a scam and/or a failed project, and furthermore, the atrocious and childish behavior of the COO of BFL doesn't exactly help instill confidence in the legitimacy of the company at this point in time.  One can easily defend themself and company without name calling, cussing, etc.  

Question.  Reading through this thread, I didn't at any point read a post from Micon saying that BFL is an outright scam.  Did I miss this as well?  It seems to me that the bets he is taking are more of a calling-them-on-bullshit-timeframe kind of thing, with a strong hint of looks-like-they-tried-and-probably-failed, which to me seems entirely legitimate considering the fact that BFL has collected what seems to be millions of dollars in pre-orders, while producing nothing more than excuse after excuse.  How is Micon a scammer? How is he a liar?

Please feel free to correct me on any of this as I'm sure I do not have all the facts.

Jay-Z; nut up, apologize to your customers, and tell them BFL fucked up rather than slinging insults, quarters and exuses at the non-believers... or, produce.  It seems an apology for the painfully long wait is already in order.  If BFL isnt a scam and/or failed project, you owe it to your customers, and their massive amount of lost currency by way of BTC price hikes, lost mining time, etc. to prove that you are legitimate.

B-Mics; I don't have much to scold you for, it seems you have kept a relatively cool head in spite of all the shit that has been thrown your way, but things like joshzerlan.com are unnecessary, and beneath you.  It seems a bit of a cheap shot, with high potential for further escalation.  If Josh and BFL are scamming the community, it will eventually become apparent, and hopefully these people will go to jail, and/or be sued for everything.

ok, phew, just had to get it out, and now, happy betting you jive mothas!

[creativex]

Question.  Reading through this thread, I didn't at any point read a post from Micon saying that BFL is an outright scam.  Did I miss this as well?  It seems to me that the bets he is taking are more of a calling-them-on-bullshit-timeframe kind of thing, with a strong hint of looks-like-they-tried-and-probably-failed, which to me seems entirely legitimate considering the fact that BFL has collected what seems to be millions of dollars in pre-orders, while producing nothing more than excuse after excuse.  How is Micon a scammer? How is he a liar?

Josh calls pretty much everyone he disagrees with an idiot, a liar, and usually something along the lines of failure/trailer trash...etc. It's very formulaic and predictable and likely says more about his own inner demons than the person he's attacking at any particular time. This has been his "policy" for longer than the Micon/Zerlan debate has been raging. It's very much akin to political mud slinging. If you cannot offer anything of substance to refute a claim you attempt to lower the credibility of your challenger(s).

[SysRun]

I will bet 10 coins that this statement is false:

"Butterfly Labs will deliver at least 3 working ASIC devices to customers by 3/20/2013, confirmed via pictures that are mining at an efficiency greater than 350 Mhash/Joule"

If anyone is a serious believer in BFL & their ability to deliver 3+ units 1 month from now and wants to bet on it, I will bet the other side.

We can use C's escrow tool, idk if we even need C anymore - just a trusted escrow

I'll take that bet Micon. Get it set up and let me know.

If you're up for it we can take that bet 5 times (50 BTC total)

Either way, good luck to you!

[haitispaceagency]

u guys are crazy lol

[Zedster]

Question.  Reading through this thread, I didn't at any point read a post from Micon saying that BFL is an outright scam.  Did I miss this as well?  It seems to me that the bets he is taking are more of a calling-them-on-bullshit-timeframe kind of thing, with a strong hint of looks-like-they-tried-and-probably-failed, which to me seems entirely legitimate considering the fact that BFL has collected what seems to be millions of dollars in pre-orders, while producing nothing more than excuse after excuse.  How is Micon a scammer? How is he a liar?

Dude, Micon has his own dedicated thread to the fact that he considers BFL a scam.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=136392.0

[MrTeal]

u guys are crazy lol

I agree. It's probably a combination of crazy and stuck in the past. For instance, look at my BTC25 bet. That doesn't seem like a lot for some reason, but every once in awhile I realize that BTC is worth USD$30 and "Holy shit, I just bet $750". I normally cash out on a VLT after I win $5.

[Zedster]

u guys are crazy lol

I agree. It's probably a combination of crazy and stuck in the past. For instance, look at my BTC25 bet. That doesn't seem like a lot for some reason, but every once in awhile I realize that BTC is worth USD$30 and "Holy shit, I just bet $750". I normally cash out on a VLT after I win $5.

What BTC isn't really monopoly money?  Oh the wife is gonna be mad.

[Micon]

I'm not as eloquent as most of you here, but I must respond...

I just read through the entire post, and I am thoroughly entertained, as well as disgusted.  Capslock's post says it very well, and maybe I'm missing something here, but how exactly is it "painfully obvious to anyone with half a brain that BFL is no scam"?  I would really like a direct answer to this.  I have not seen one shred of evidence, much less proof, that BFL's promise of ASIC's is not a scam and/or a failed project, and furthermore, the atrocious and childish behavior of the COO of BFL doesn't exactly help instill confidence in the legitimacy of the company at this point in time.  One can easily defend themself and company without name calling, cussing, etc.  

Question.  Reading through this thread, I didn't at any point read a post from Micon saying that BFL is an outright scam.  Did I miss this as well?  It seems to me that the bets he is taking are more of a calling-them-on-bullshit-timeframe kind of thing, with a strong hint of looks-like-they-tried-and-probably-failed, which to me seems entirely legitimate considering the fact that BFL has collected what seems to be millions of dollars in pre-orders, while producing nothing more than excuse after excuse.  How is Micon a scammer? How is he a liar?

Please feel free to correct me on any of this as I'm sure I do not have all the facts.

Jay-Z; nut up, apologize to your customers, and tell them BFL fucked up rather than slinging insults, quarters and exuses at the non-believers... or, produce.  It seems an apology for the painfully long wait is already in order.  If BFL isnt a scam and/or failed project, you owe it to your customers, and their massive amount of lost currency by way of BTC price hikes, lost mining time, etc. to prove that you are legitimate.

B-Mics; I don't have much to scold you for, it seems you have kept a relatively cool head in spite of all the shit that has been thrown your way, but things like joshzerlan.com are unnecessary, and beneath you.  It seems a bit of a cheap shot, with high potential for further escalation.  If Josh and BFL are scamming the community, it will eventually become apparent, and hopefully these people will go to jail, and/or be sued for everything.

ok, phew, just had to get it out, and now, happy betting you jive mothas!

Criticism for JoshZerlan.com accepted & noted.  I can explain a little more why I responded as such:  Nevermind the fact that I think Josh Zerlan works for a scammer company, this guy is a textbook bully.  He's an internet bully and a real-life bully.  He tried to intimidate me personally by making an aggressive show to deflect my CES recordings of his hardware.  I wanted to show him that not only will his bully-deflection tactics not work, but I will use them directly against him to amplify my point and draw more attention to the fact they have not shipped and showed up to CES empty handed.  Maybe this is not warranted, maybe this is childish, but I watch the culture of BFL-influenced mods censoring anti-BFL postings, I watch Josh Zerlan run around these forums talking mad shit to all skeptics in a completely unprofessional and abusive manner, all while holding USD millions in pre-orders and gambling it on R&D to create the product they promised.  Wasn't going to let him push this story to the side once again.  Right or wrong, I choose to fight this bully with a fact-based video account of his own actions and his own words hosted on a domain of his first & last name.

[becoin]

I watch the culture of BFL-influenced mods censoring anti-BFL postings

I was very surprised to experience this myself. One of the mods is really a disgrace for this forum!

[Inaba]

I'm not as eloquent as most of you here, but I must respond...

I just read through the entire post, and I am thoroughly entertained, as well as disgusted.  Capslock's post says it very well, and maybe I'm missing something here, but how exactly is it "painfully obvious to anyone with half a brain that BFL is no scam"?  I would really like a direct answer to this.  I have not seen one shred of evidence, much less proof, that BFL's promise of ASIC's is not a scam and/or a failed project, and furthermore, the atrocious and childish behavior of the COO of BFL doesn't exactly help instill confidence in the legitimacy of the company at this point in time.  One can easily defend themself and company without name calling, cussing, etc. 

Question.  Reading through this thread, I didn't at any point read a post from Micon saying that BFL is an outright scam.  Did I miss this as well?  It seems to me that the bets he is taking are more of a calling-them-on-bullshit-timeframe kind of thing, with a strong hint of looks-like-they-tried-and-probably-failed, which to me seems entirely legitimate considering the fact that BFL has collected what seems to be millions of dollars in pre-orders, while producing nothing more than excuse after excuse.  How is Micon a scammer? How is he a liar?

Please feel free to correct me on any of this as I'm sure I do not have all the facts.

Jay-Z; nut up, apologize to your customers, and tell them BFL fucked up rather than slinging insults, quarters and exuses at the non-believers... or, produce.  It seems an apology for the painfully long wait is already in order.  If BFL isnt a scam and/or failed project, you owe it to your customers, and their massive amount of lost currency by way of BTC price hikes, lost mining time, etc. to prove that you are legitimate.

B-Mics; I don't have much to scold you for, it seems you have kept a relatively cool head in spite of all the shit that has been thrown your way, but things like joshzerlan.com are unnecessary, and beneath you.  It seems a bit of a cheap shot, with high potential for further escalation.  If Josh and BFL are scamming the community, it will eventually become apparent, and hopefully these people will go to jail, and/or be sued for everything.

ok, phew, just had to get it out, and now, happy betting you jive mothas!

Criticism for JoshZerlan.com accepted & noted.  I can explain a little more why I responded as such:  Nevermind the fact that I think Josh Zerlan works for a scammer company, this guy is a textbook bully.  He's an internet bully and a real-life bully.  He tried to intimidate me personally by making an aggressive show to deflect my CES recordings of his hardware.  I wanted to show him that not only will his bully-deflection tactics not work, but I will use them directly against him to amplify my point and draw more attention to the fact they have not shipped and showed up to CES empty handed.  Maybe this is not warranted, maybe this is childish, but I watch the culture of BFL-influenced mods censoring anti-BFL postings, I watch Josh Zerlan run around these forums talking mad shit to all skeptics in a completely unprofessional and abusive manner, all while holding USD millions in pre-orders and gambling it on R&D to create the product they promised.  Wasn't going to let him push this story to the side once again.  Right or wrong, I choose to fight this bully with a fact-based video account of his own actions and his own words hosted on a domain of his first & last name.

Translation:  I am butthurt because the big, bad, mean Josh scared me so I'm going to lash out.  I don't understand why people think I'm an idiot!  It must be a conspiracy!

Somebody call the waaaambulance.

[Micon]

Question.  Reading through this thread, I didn't at any point read a post from Micon saying that BFL is an outright scam.  Did I miss this as well?  It seems to me that the bets he is taking are more of a calling-them-on-bullshit-timeframe kind of thing, with a strong hint of looks-like-they-tried-and-probably-failed, which to me seems entirely legitimate considering the fact that BFL has collected what seems to be millions of dollars in pre-orders, while producing nothing more than excuse after excuse.  How is Micon a scammer? How is he a liar?

Dude, Micon has his own dedicated thread to the fact that he considers BFL a scam.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=136392.0

1)  It is intentionally named "Scammer Investigation Thread" and I've made it pretty clear I believe BFL to be a scam and bet almost 100 coins on that.

2)  I have never said "BFL is a scam, and here is concrete proof that I have"  - I have only said that I think they are a scammer, have listed many data points as to why I feel that way, and the summation of which is left to each individual human to decide for themselves.  For me, there is is enough info to make me want to bet they will keep missing shipping dates.  Betting "That they won't ship by the end of 2013" is ridiculous for many reasons, first and foremost because the market currently dictates a ~ 1 month wager at even money.  Secondly you could take the millions in pre-order money, if BFL hasn't squandered it, and start R&D today on 2/21 and have a working ASIC in 10 months if you kidnap Yifu or the ASICminer guys.

I will bet 10 coins that this statement is false:

"Butterfly Labs will deliver at least 3 working ASIC devices to customers by 3/20/2013, confirmed via pictures that are mining at an efficiency greater than 350 Mhash/Joule"

If anyone is a serious believer in BFL & their ability to deliver 3+ units 1 month from now and wants to bet on it, I will bet the other side.

We can use C's escrow tool, idk if we even need C anymore - just a trusted escrow

I'll take that bet Micon. Get it set up and let me know.

If you're up for it we can take that bet 5 times (50 BTC total)

Either way, good luck to you!

Cool, let's choose an escrow.  Do you have C's "btc-address" tool?    I feel a little bit bad bugging Cassius for more envib and enviA codes, but i'm going to do it anyway.  If there is a relatively neutral, trusted person reading this who is also familiar with C's btc-address escrow functionality holler at me.  For now, another PM to Mike.

[Micon]

I'm not as eloquent as most of you here, but I must respond...

I just read through the entire post, and I am thoroughly entertained, as well as disgusted.  Capslock's post says it very well, and maybe I'm missing something here, but how exactly is it "painfully obvious to anyone with half a brain that BFL is no scam"?  I would really like a direct answer to this.  I have not seen one shred of evidence, much less proof, that BFL's promise of ASIC's is not a scam and/or a failed project, and furthermore, the atrocious and childish behavior of the COO of BFL doesn't exactly help instill confidence in the legitimacy of the company at this point in time.  One can easily defend themself and company without name calling, cussing, etc. 

Question.  Reading through this thread, I didn't at any point read a post from Micon saying that BFL is an outright scam.  Did I miss this as well?  It seems to me that the bets he is taking are more of a calling-them-on-bullshit-timeframe kind of thing, with a strong hint of looks-like-they-tried-and-probably-failed, which to me seems entirely legitimate considering the fact that BFL has collected what seems to be millions of dollars in pre-orders, while producing nothing more than excuse after excuse.  How is Micon a scammer? How is he a liar?

Please feel free to correct me on any of this as I'm sure I do not have all the facts.

Jay-Z; nut up, apologize to your customers, and tell them BFL fucked up rather than slinging insults, quarters and exuses at the non-believers... or, produce.  It seems an apology for the painfully long wait is already in order.  If BFL isnt a scam and/or failed project, you owe it to your customers, and their massive amount of lost currency by way of BTC price hikes, lost mining time, etc. to prove that you are legitimate.

B-Mics; I don't have much to scold you for, it seems you have kept a relatively cool head in spite of all the shit that has been thrown your way, but things like joshzerlan.com are unnecessary, and beneath you.  It seems a bit of a cheap shot, with high potential for further escalation.  If Josh and BFL are scamming the community, it will eventually become apparent, and hopefully these people will go to jail, and/or be sued for everything.

ok, phew, just had to get it out, and now, happy betting you jive mothas!

Criticism for JoshZerlan.com accepted & noted.  I can explain a little more why I responded as such:  Nevermind the fact that I think Josh Zerlan works for a scammer company, this guy is a textbook bully.  He's an internet bully and a real-life bully.  He tried to intimidate me personally by making an aggressive show to deflect my CES recordings of his hardware.  I wanted to show him that not only will his bully-deflection tactics not work, but I will use them directly against him to amplify my point and draw more attention to the fact they have not shipped and showed up to CES empty handed.  Maybe this is not warranted, maybe this is childish, but I watch the culture of BFL-influenced mods censoring anti-BFL postings, I watch Josh Zerlan run around these forums talking mad shit to all skeptics in a completely unprofessional and abusive manner, all while holding USD millions in pre-orders and gambling it on R&D to create the product they promised.  Wasn't going to let him push this story to the side once again.  Right or wrong, I choose to fight this bully with a fact-based video account of his own actions and his own words hosted on a domain of his first & last name.

Translation:  I am butthurt because the big, bad, mean Josh scared me so I'm going to lash out.  I don't understand why people think I'm an idiot!  It must be a conspiracy!

Somebody call the waaaambulance.

so, how did the bumping go?   or are you more concerned with my latest 10 coin wager against your company than the millions in delayed product you owe your customers?

yikes... was gonna link to your last update, from 2/14, more than 1 week ago, but the BFL website is entirely down.

Fatal error: Uncaught exception 'Zend_Http_Client_Adapter_Exception' with message 'Unable to Connect to ssl://forums.butterflylabs.com:443. Error #0: ' in /var/web/bflweb/library/Zend/Http/Client/Adapter/Socket.php:235 Stack trace: #0 /var/web/bflweb/library/Zend/Http/Client.php(973): Zend_Http_Client_Adapter_Socket->connect('forums.butterfl...', 443, true) #1 /var/web/bflweb/library/Zend/Feed/Reader.php(252): Zend_Http_Client->request('GET') #2 /var/web/bflweb/application/Bootstrap.php(70): Zend_Feed_Reader::import('https://forums....') #3 /var/web/bflweb/library/Zend/Application/Bootstrap/BootstrapAbstract.php(667): Bootstrap->_initFeeds() #4 /var/web/bflweb/library/Zend/Application/Bootstrap/BootstrapAbstract.php(620): Zend_Application_Bootstrap_BootstrapAbstract->_executeResource('feeds') #5 /var/web/bflweb/library/Zend/Application/Bootstrap/BootstrapAbstract.php(584): Zend_Application_Bootstrap_BootstrapAbstract->_bootstrap(NULL) #6 /var/web/bflweb/library/Zend/Application.php(355): Zend_Application_Bootstrap_Bootstr in /var/web/bflweb/library/Zend/Http/Client/Adapter/Socket.php on line 235

[Micon]

I watch the culture of BFL-influenced mods censoring anti-BFL postings

I was very surprised to experience this myself. One of the mods is really a disgrace for this forum!

I assume you are talking about Gmaxwell, he was the one that msg'd me asking me not to post negative BFL information in the Hardware --> Custom forums.  It is pretty clear they did a good job over the months sanitizing those BFL threads so it was always a "go BFL!" attitude. 

Quite a shame.  The main bitcoin forum should vigilantly fight censorship of issues like BFL where millions of btc community monies are tied up.

[becoin]

I assume you are talking about Gmaxwell

It wasn't enough for him to lock the thread. He went beyond and changed the title to justify a blatant scam!

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=137026.0