🌟🎲🌟 MoneyPot.com

[JackpotRacer]

Wtf am i the only guy who ask the question? Why every bet only have a seed that is <1000000???

Very interesting.  I wonder what causes this? Just eyeballing it, it seems most of his client seeds are oddly low, definitely doesn't look evenly distributed. However, this wouldn't allow him to cheat unless MP was trying to cheat him, and he was exploiting that? (I saw that very thing happen on a shitty site a couple months back, you can find it in my post history).

My guess however is just that what ever app he was playing on was not properly coded, and inconsequential to his wins or loses. (But should be fixed ASAP, as it would make the site not provably fair). Generating client seeds is very easy: https://gist.github.com/RHavar/a6511dea4d4c41aeb1eb

what you are saying is that the client seeds were not properly coded and could not be used to cheat?
you are also saying it is not provably fair as it is now. I always understood that if a site is not provably fair someone can cheat the site or the player (not sure now)

thx

[1714750791]

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[1714750791]

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[1714750791]

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[CrazyCraig]

We are simply trying to cover everything.

We have been constantly reviewing the bet logs and are doing our best to check all that we can for the sake of our investors.  

We are not above asking for help if in the event we missed something.

Public log: http://pastebin.com/4cQik4uZ (too big to post in forum)

Wtf am i the only guy who ask the question? Why every bet only have a seed that is <1000000???

You remember the shit that was going on with bb And the seed Story!


Hold the Coins!!!!

All the client seeds are dynamic and random which have been produced by the app itself (bubblebit).  They were designed by the app to be 6 digits long.  I have suggested earlier in the day to make the length at least 8 digits but still with the ability to be custom set.

The seeds don't really affect the user's ability to cheat, but rather limits themselves to being cheated easier (if for some reason Moneypot was acting malicious against them [we are not]). 

confused

how long should those seeds at least be? 6 7 8 9 ?  and what is max number for seeds?

thx

It is my opinion that the random seeds should vary in length with each generation throuought the whole seed range.

what is the whole random seeds range in numbers?

thx

1 - 4294967296

[JackpotRacer]

Wtf am i the only guy who ask the question? Why every bet only have a seed that is <1000000???

Very interesting.  I wonder what causes this? Just eyeballing it, it seems most of his client seeds are oddly low, definitely doesn't look evenly distributed. However, this wouldn't allow him to cheat unless MP was trying to cheat him, and he was exploiting that? (I saw that very thing happen on a shitty site a couple months back, you can find it in my post history).

My guess however is just that what ever app he was playing on was not properly coded, and inconsequential to his wins or loses. (But should be fixed ASAP, as it would make the site not provably fair). Generating client seeds is very easy: https://gist.github.com/RHavar/a6511dea4d4c41aeb1eb

what you are saying is that the client seeds were not properly coded and could not be used to cheat?
you are also saying it is not provably fair as it is now. I always understood that if a site is not provably fair someone can cheat the site or the player (not sure now)

thx

I believe he is saying that since the random client seeds were only 6 digits in length, it would restrict the user's ability to fluctuate the outcome.  This means that Moneypot could maliciously act to make the player lose if (s)he did not manually set a client seed and knew which range the player was going to make.

The particular player that people are talking about has not lost (Moneypot did not (and never has) 'stack' the odds against the player).

This is also why it is recommended to occasionally alter your client seed in a random fashion to take full advantage of the provably fair system.

sorry placed my answer wrong

ok sounds good then and as I understand the player could not cheat by using the short client seed and MP did not cheat cause the player was winning and not losing

thx

[RHavar]

Just to keep everyone in the loop, we have conducted several tests today.

Most of them were an investigation into the big jackpot win from Jackpotracer which started the whole momentum of winning.

What we found was even with our own knowledge of the server seed, it would take us on average 6 minutes to find a match within the range that triggers the jackpot using both incremental and random client seed pairings.

The reason this is significant is because the bets that were placed while hitting the jackpot were on autobet and were < 5 seconds apart (which is an almost impossible time to both calculate a winning result and submit a bet while keeping in rhythm the timing of previous auto bets).  

This indicates to us that the jackpot win was legitimate.  

Is this a joke or an allusion I'm missing?

[JackpotRacer]

Just to keep everyone in the loop, we have conducted several tests today.

Most of them were an investigation into the big jackpot win from Jackpotracer which started the whole momentum of winning.

What we found was even with our own knowledge of the server seed, it would take us on average 6 minutes to find a match within the range that triggers the jackpot using both incremental and random client seed pairings.

The reason this is significant is because the bets that were placed while hitting the jackpot were on autobet and were < 5 seconds apart (which is an almost impossible time to both calculate a winning result and submit a bet while keeping in rhythm the timing of previous auto bets).  

This indicates to us that the jackpot win was legitimate.  

---

Assuming now that the jackpot win was legitimate, the following happenings at BubblesBit logically follows the story of a user looking to gamble with it at a very loose pace with newfound riches who has seemingly gotten lucky with huge bets reaching 12-15 bitcoin at times.

You can see from the logs (you can insert the bet id to double check (moneypot.com/bets/*insert betid number here*) that almost all bets are within split seconds of each other as well (And although it is much easier to find a winning result at a 2:1 payout than it is with the jackpot odds, it is still almost humanly impossible to calculate a winning result and bet while keeping in rhythm the timing of previous quick bets).

---

We understand that these type of losses make investors nervous (Moneypot too has a fair portion of the bankroll and absorbed building losses), so we are doing our due diligence and checking everything out that we can.

This however does not justify wild accusations against the player or against Moneypot themselves.  We are opening up as much information as possible and encourage users to investigate in case they find something (there is also a decently sized reward if an exploit is found).  

all this is telling me (if I understood it right) that NotTardy could not cheat at those apps and I am glad to hear that and yes luck hits wherever whenever and whomever and no one can predict it without a cheat

if I may give my thoughts
when NotTardy came to our app/chat and was talking to a Mod and then to me I was checking his stats and I saw he registered about an hour before. and stats are empty. I was sure according to his talking and questions that he was already at our lottery  and was familiar with it. I have logged the whole conversation. he started then immediately with max 900 sat bets and he didnt ask how the lottery works and started to wager max. each new user at our lottery is asking many questions before he starts to wager. that does not mean that he was cheating but he was hiding behind a new nick.

he did if I recall it right 3 bets on our dice game. and then left to visit Bubbles and again today I am convinced he knew what he is doing and where to go.
the second time he came to our app I was there ( I am many hours there) and watched his game on lottery and he wagered 10 sat = hmm and 150 sat = hmm quite low for a winner of such amounts. then went to bubbles again and won again and wagering high

next visit he wagered again small and wen to bubbles and won again and came back to us and  changed to 5/25 lottery and hit 8 BTC even he could have wager much higher to win more than 8 BTC

today he went straight to bubbles and I watched his play and betting pattern and he won again and visited us and wagering 100 bits to win 4 btc but did not do many bets and he is gone

now I am asking myself and all

why he comes to us Jackpotracer and then to bubbles and again and again?
why did he only 3 bets at our dice game? a test? cause of our seeds? (just saying cause I dont know what he could test)
why did he not go to bit exo? again the seeds?
or to BB?
or Sharp Dice?
or any other app with dice?

I find this very interesting but I dont see any cheat according what DD explained but I am also sure that the user knew our app very well

I hope this helps

[JackpotRacer]

Just to keep everyone in the loop, we have conducted several tests today.

Most of them were an investigation into the big jackpot win from Jackpotracer which started the whole momentum of winning.

What we found was even with our own knowledge of the server seed, it would take us on average 6 minutes to find a match within the range that triggers the jackpot using both incremental and random client seed pairings.

The reason this is significant is because the bets that were placed while hitting the jackpot were on autobet and were < 5 seconds apart (which is an almost impossible time to both calculate a winning result and submit a bet while keeping in rhythm the timing of previous auto bets).  

This indicates to us that the jackpot win was legitimate.  

Is this a joke or an allusion I'm missing?

would you please explain what you mean and what was wrong with DD explanation

thx

[RHavar]

would you please explain what you mean and what was wrong with DD explanation

I'm not really sure, I don't really understand what he means. With knowledge of the server seed, it probably only takes a few hundred CPU cycles to figure out the required client seed to win. (let x be a random number in the winning range. Then use a client seed of:  (x -serverseed) % 2^32.  Or if you're lazy and want to brute force a client seed -- there's only 4 billion possibilities, and it's a simple range check, so you can scan the entire range in under a second. But you don't even need to scan the entire range, as there's probably at least 50 possible client seeds (if you're randomly searching) so it's an extremely fast operation.


Or let's forget all that, and let's assume that it takes 6 minutes to find a client seed and the player was betting every 3 seconds ...  that means the player has a ~1.6% of finding the seed in between their normal bet. But if they win, they get like a million times their money. Auto-betting with a 1.6% chance of making a million times my bet .... in a few minutes of betting, you're almost guaranteed to hit the jackpot

[JackpotRacer]

would you please explain what you mean and what was wrong with DD explanation

I'm not really sure, I don't really understand what he means. With knowledge of the server seed, it probably only takes a few hundred CPU cycles to figure out the required client seed to win. (let x be a random number in the winning range. Then use a client seed of:  (x -serverseed) % 2^32.   Or i mean, if you're lazy and want to brute force a client seed -- there's only 4 billion possibilities, and it's a simple range check, so you can scan the entire range in under a second. But you don't even need to scan the entire range, as there's probably at least 50 possible client seeds (if you're randomly searching) so it's an extremely fast operation.

I understood NotTardy was betting manually at bubbles. would this 1 second check you are describing be enough to know many sure bets or all bets he did? or would he fire some gamble bets with low amounts till he gets the next big bet right? is this a possible scenario?

thx

[crazybtrade]

Hello,

How can add moneypot to our game?
I want receive MP bets too

[CrazyCraig]

Hello,

How can add moneypot to our game?
I want receive MP bets too

Check out our API docs, https://www.moneypot.com/api-docs

[Lanzador]

would you please explain what you mean and what was wrong with DD explanation

I'm not really sure, I don't really understand what he means. With knowledge of the server seed, it probably only takes a few hundred CPU cycles to figure out the required client seed to win. (let x be a random number in the winning range. Then use a client seed of:  (x -serverseed) % 2^32.   Or i mean, if you're lazy and want to brute force a client seed -- there's only 4 billion possibilities, and it's a simple range check, so you can scan the entire range in under a second. But you don't even need to scan the entire range, as there's probably at least 50 possible client seeds (if you're randomly searching) so it's an extremely fast operation.

I understood NotTardy was betting manually at bubbles. would this 1 second check you are describing be enough to know many sure bets or all bets he did? or would he fire some gamble bets with low amounts till he gets the next big bet right? is this a possible scenario?

thx

True, he could also simply use a future server seed,r ight?

[yahoo62278]

Site updates: auto client seed is now a full range as moneypot outcome range

[CrazyCraig]

Site updates: auto client seed is now a full range as moneypot outcome range

Great news!

[ranlo]

would you please explain what you mean and what was wrong with DD explanation

I'm not really sure, I don't really understand what he means. With knowledge of the server seed, it probably only takes a few hundred CPU cycles to figure out the required client seed to win. (let x be a random number in the winning range. Then use a client seed of:  (x -serverseed) % 2^32.   Or i mean, if you're lazy and want to brute force a client seed -- there's only 4 billion possibilities, and it's a simple range check, so you can scan the entire range in under a second. But you don't even need to scan the entire range, as there's probably at least 50 possible client seeds (if you're randomly searching) so it's an extremely fast operation.

I understood NotTardy was betting manually at bubbles. would this 1 second check you are describing be enough to know many sure bets or all bets he did? or would he fire some gamble bets with low amounts till he gets the next big bet right? is this a possible scenario?

thx

True, he could also simply use a future server seed,r ight?

Server seed is generated on every bet so even if someone had direct access to the database, they would only know the next seed, not any past that.

[Magisterek]

All ok, only... where i can change layout to "new"?

[dooglus]

What we found was even with our own knowledge of the server seed, it would take us on average 6 minutes to find a match within the range that triggers the jackpot using both incremental and random client seed pairings.

Don't you just add the client and server seeds together? If so, to "find a match", all you need to do is subtract the server seed from the result you want, and that gives you the client seed (modulo 2^32 or whatever you use). It took me less than 6 minutes to type this. I'm sure you could do the math in less than 6 seconds.

The reason this is significant is because the bets that were placed while hitting the jackpot were on autobet and were < 5 seconds apart (which is an almost impossible time to both calculate a winning result and submit a bet while keeping in rhythm the timing of previous auto bets).  

This indicates to us that the jackpot win was legitimate.  

I don't know what to make of this. Surely as site owner you understand how the seeds work. Why did you post that it would take 6 minutes to do something that would take less than a thousandth of a second in reality, and then edit your post when called out on it?

I'm sure people would be very interested to hear your explanation for this.

Is this a joke or an allusion I'm missing?

I've no idea, but since you posted that he has edited his post to completely change its meaning.

Original post:

Just to keep everyone in the loop, we have conducted several tests today.

Most of them were an investigation into the big jackpot win from Jackpotracer which started the whole momentum of winning.

What we found was even with our own knowledge of the server seed, it would take us on average 6 minutes to find a match within the range that triggers the jackpot using both incremental and random client seed pairings.

The reason this is significant is because the bets that were placed while hitting the jackpot were on autobet and were < 5 seconds apart (which is an almost impossible time to both calculate a winning result and submit a bet while keeping in rhythm the timing of previous auto bets).  

This indicates to us that the jackpot win was legitimate.  

Replacement post:

We understand that these type of losses make investors nervous (Moneypot too has a fair portion of the bankroll and absorbed building losses), so we are doing our due diligence and checking everything out that we can.

This however does not justify wild accusations against the player or against Moneypot themselves.  We are opening up as much information as possible and encourage users to investigate in case they find something (there is also a decently sized reward if an exploit is found).  

"We are opening up as much information as possible" is inconsistent with editing old posts to remove inconvenient information. What's going on, guys?

[ranlo]

What we found was even with our own knowledge of the server seed, it would take us on average 6 minutes to find a match within the range that triggers the jackpot using both incremental and random client seed pairings.

Don't you just add the client and server seeds together? If so, to "find a match", all you need to do is subtract the server seed from the result you want, and that gives you the client seed (modulo 2^32 or whatever you use). It took me less than 6 minutes to type this. I'm sure you could do the math in less than 6 seconds.

The reason this is significant is because the bets that were placed while hitting the jackpot were on autobet and were < 5 seconds apart (which is an almost impossible time to both calculate a winning result and submit a bet while keeping in rhythm the timing of previous auto bets). 

This indicates to us that the jackpot win was legitimate. 

I don't know what to make of this. Surely as site owner you understand how the seeds work. Why did you post that it would take 6 minutes to do something that would take less than a thousandth of a second in reality, and then edit your post when called out on it?

I'm sure people would be very interested to hear your explanation for this.

Is this a joke or an allusion I'm missing?

I've no idea, but since you posted that he has edited his post to completely change its meaning.

Original post:

Just to keep everyone in the loop, we have conducted several tests today.

Most of them were an investigation into the big jackpot win from Jackpotracer which started the whole momentum of winning.

What we found was even with our own knowledge of the server seed, it would take us on average 6 minutes to find a match within the range that triggers the jackpot using both incremental and random client seed pairings.

The reason this is significant is because the bets that were placed while hitting the jackpot were on autobet and were < 5 seconds apart (which is an almost impossible time to both calculate a winning result and submit a bet while keeping in rhythm the timing of previous auto bets). 

This indicates to us that the jackpot win was legitimate. 

Replacement post:

We understand that these type of losses make investors nervous (Moneypot too has a fair portion of the bankroll and absorbed building losses), so we are doing our due diligence and checking everything out that we can.

This however does not justify wild accusations against the player or against Moneypot themselves.  We are opening up as much information as possible and encourage users to investigate in case they find something (there is also a decently sized reward if an exploit is found). 

"We are opening up as much information as possible" is inconsistent with editing old posts to remove inconvenient information. What's going on, guys?

The tl;dr is that we were overcomplicating it. Ray and Ryan already discussed this in PM and clarified it. What we were doing before that was taking the server seed and randomly generating client ones until one got the result we wanted. Keep in mind this is after hours of combing through other data, analyzing things, responding to numerous requests, etc. We're trying to be as transparent as possible.

Doge's post edit was due to the clarification that there was a better way to get the seed. It was nothing about hiding information or anything, just removing anything that may further cause confusion (being that it was incorrect) by readers.

[JackpotRacer]

I don't know what to make of this. Surely as site owner you understand how the seeds work. Why did you post that it would take 6 minutes to do something that would take less than a thousandth of a second in reality, and then edit your post when called out on it?

I'm sure people would be very interested to hear your explanation for this.

that means that my question was not that stupid and I thought it was stupid cause I got no answer
I need just to add now to my question if it was also possible on our Lottery and not only on bubbles
he used at Lottery the bot - would the split sec knowledge work when botting? I am asking cause I was wondering that he changed a few times to 10 sat bets and back to higher wager or to 5/25 and back to 6/49 but I am not sure if it was also on the day he hit the 6/6

but if MP or anyone ( I cant = n00b) can check his betting log on the day he hit 6/6 and he changed to 5/25 and did a 10 sat wager and back to 6/49 then I would have something to tell and it might be helpful

Quote from: RHavar on Today at 01:25:53 AM
Quote from: JackpotRacer on Today at 01:14:08 AM
would you please explain what you mean and what was wrong with DD explanation

I'm not really sure, I don't really understand what he means. With knowledge of the server seed, it probably only takes a few hundred CPU cycles to figure out the required client seed to win. (let x be a random number in the winning range. Then use a client seed of:  (x -serverseed) % 2^32.   Or i mean, if you're lazy and want to brute force a client seed -- there's only 4 billion possibilities, and it's a simple range check, so you can scan the entire range in under a second. But you don't even need to scan the entire range, as there's probably at least 50 possible client seeds (if you're randomly searching) so it's an extremely fast operation.

I understood NotTardy was betting manually at bubbles. would this 1 second check you are describing be enough to know many sure bets or all bets he did? or would he fire some gamble bets with low amounts till he gets the next big bet right? is this a possible scenario?

thx

[ranlo]

I don't know what to make of this. Surely as site owner you understand how the seeds work. Why did you post that it would take 6 minutes to do something that would take less than a thousandth of a second in reality, and then edit your post when called out on it?

I'm sure people would be very interested to hear your explanation for this.

that means that my question was not that stupid and I thought it was stupid cause I got no answer
I need just to add now to my question if it was also possible on our Lottery and not only on bubbles
he used at Lottery the bot - would the split sec knowledge work when botting? I am asking cause I was wondering that he changed a few times to 10 sat bets and back to higher wager or to 5/25 and back to 6/49 but I am not sure if it was also on the day he hit the 6/6

but if MP or anyone ( I cant = n00b) can check his betting log on the day he hit 6/6 and he changed to 5/25 and did a 10 sat wager and back to 6/49 then I would have something to tell and it might be helpful

Quote from: RHavar on Today at 01:25:53 AM
Quote from: JackpotRacer on Today at 01:14:08 AM
would you please explain what you mean and what was wrong with DD explanation

I'm not really sure, I don't really understand what he means. With knowledge of the server seed, it probably only takes a few hundred CPU cycles to figure out the required client seed to win. (let x be a random number in the winning range. Then use a client seed of:  (x -serverseed) % 2^32.   Or i mean, if you're lazy and want to brute force a client seed -- there's only 4 billion possibilities, and it's a simple range check, so you can scan the entire range in under a second. But you don't even need to scan the entire range, as there's probably at least 50 possible client seeds (if you're randomly searching) so it's an extremely fast operation.

I understood NotTardy was betting manually at bubbles. would this 1 second check you are describing be enough to know many sure bets or all bets he did? or would he fire some gamble bets with low amounts till he gets the next big bet right? is this a possible scenario?

thx

Technically, and this is purely hypothetical, a second would be enough time if the entire process were automated through a script (script would latch into DB, pull info, figure out client seed, then push a bet to your site or whatever site as if it were a bot). That said, I want to stress that we have found zero traces of breaches anywhere within any of the servers, nor the DB itself. The whole "could they come up with a valid seed" was just a test because we're trying to cover all bases.

Your second question, about doing bets until he feels like he's going to hit... this has done people a lot of good on other sites but is gambler's fallacy. i.e., I remember back in the day when people used to sell pre-loss accounts on JD (not sure if they still do?), where you'll, say, lose 10x in a row at 49.5% and then sell the account to someone who assumes they have a better chance of winning the next since it's more rare to get 11x losses in a row. It was a pretty funny thing at the time, and haven't seen it since it changed to CLAM, but worth noting as gambler's routinely have their own processes/thoughts/"lucky" methods.

[JackpotRacer]

I don't know what to make of this. Surely as site owner you understand how the seeds work. Why did you post that it would take 6 minutes to do something that would take less than a thousandth of a second in reality, and then edit your post when called out on it?

I'm sure people would be very interested to hear your explanation for this.

that means that my question was not that stupid and I thought it was stupid cause I got no answer
I need just to add now to my question if it was also possible on our Lottery and not only on bubbles
he used at Lottery the bot - would the split sec knowledge work when botting? I am asking cause I was wondering that he changed a few times to 10 sat bets and back to higher wager or to 5/25 and back to 6/49 but I am not sure if it was also on the day he hit the 6/6

but if MP or anyone ( I cant = n00b) can check his betting log on the day he hit 6/6 and he changed to 5/25 and did a 10 sat wager and back to 6/49 then I would have something to tell and it might be helpful

Quote from: RHavar on Today at 01:25:53 AM
Quote from: JackpotRacer on Today at 01:14:08 AM
would you please explain what you mean and what was wrong with DD explanation

I'm not really sure, I don't really understand what he means. With knowledge of the server seed, it probably only takes a few hundred CPU cycles to figure out the required client seed to win. (let x be a random number in the winning range. Then use a client seed of:  (x -serverseed) % 2^32.   Or i mean, if you're lazy and want to brute force a client seed -- there's only 4 billion possibilities, and it's a simple range check, so you can scan the entire range in under a second. But you don't even need to scan the entire range, as there's probably at least 50 possible client seeds (if you're randomly searching) so it's an extremely fast operation.

I understood NotTardy was betting manually at bubbles. would this 1 second check you are describing be enough to know many sure bets or all bets he did? or would he fire some gamble bets with low amounts till he gets the next big bet right? is this a possible scenario?

thx

Technically, and this is purely hypothetical, a second would be enough time if the entire process were automated through a script (script would latch into DB, pull info, figure out client seed, then push a bet to your site or whatever site as if it were a bot). That said, I want to stress that we have found zero traces of breaches anywhere within any of the servers, nor the DB itself. The whole "could they come up with a valid seed" was just a test because we're trying to cover all bases.

Your second question, about doing bets until he feels like he's going to hit... this has done people a lot of good on other sites but is gambler's fallacy. i.e., I remember back in the day when people used to sell pre-loss accounts on JD (not sure if they still do?), where you'll, say, lose 10x in a row at 49.5% and then sell the account to someone who assumes they have a better chance of winning the next since it's more rare to get 11x losses in a row. It was a pretty funny thing at the time, and haven't seen it since it changed to CLAM, but worth noting as gambler's routinely have their own processes/thoughts/"lucky" methods.

regarding first part of your answer I have to say that my questions are only asked to try to help and I am not pointing at anyone and thx for confirming that it would be also possible for a botter

regarding 2nd question I have to tell you that you misunderstood it completely and I know very well pre rolling gambler's fallacy etc

let me repeat my question and I would appreciate the answer to it cause you MP owner or dev could answer it

but if MP or anyone ( I cant = n00b) can check his betting log on the day he hit 6/6 and he changed to 5/25 and did a 10 sat wager and back to 6/49 then I would have something to tell and it might be helpful

my question is did he do this on the day he hit 6/6 or even the visits after the hit? thx