🌟🎲🌟 MoneyPot.com

[NBward6]

Really wish I had seen the thread RHavar linked to earlier.

I am starting to think this bankroll decline is all from accepting bets at insane kelly multipliers.

I would very much like to see a breakdown of bets by attempted win size.

What is the current max win? How is it determined?

How do you determine kelly criterion for plinko bets or any wager with multiple outcomes?

[Michail1]

We will be giving a big update tomorrow.

Is that good news or bad news?

We have not found any proof or evidence of foul play -- so it's not that type of news.  It's news about the future and how we plan to move forward.

Sparked my interest. 

[beber456]

Investor Profit: -17,440,561.81 bits
im glad cause i cashed out my invest  yesterday when it  was at -2,000,000 , not a lot  of bits invested  . btw now its a good time for  invest, dat cant  be worst   logically  ...

Investor Profit: 5,218,490.55 bits  a day later ... good call ^^

[JackpotRacer]

Really wish I had seen the thread RHavar linked to earlier.

I am starting to think this bankroll decline is all from accepting bets at insane kelly multipliers.

I would very much like to see a breakdown of bets by attempted win size.

What is the current max win? How is it determined?

How do you determine kelly criterion for plinko bets or any wager with multiple outcomes?

Current max win is 1% of the house bankroll.  It also has some restrictions.  If for example, a bet has a house edge of 0.5%, the max win is 0.5% of the house bankroll.  This applies to plinko bets, jackpot style bets, large multipliers, etc...

Previously we were operating at a true 3.3333 kelly.  For reference, BetKing was allowing for more than 10x true kelly and it had the highest profit of any crowdfunded site.  BitDice also allows for 10x kelly and has performed quite well (even at less than 70% expected value).

sorry I don't understand the meaning of true 3.3333 Kelly

what can be said against half Kelly?

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kelly's criterion
As we can see from the diagram above, if we bet twice Kelly, we would have an expected growth rate of zero, and further increasing our bet would be a suicide in long run, even if we have the advantage in the gamble. The expected long-term growth rate will also decrease when the gambler bets aggressively, yet with higher risk than Kelly. This is why some gamblers would use a “Half Kelly”, half betting size of Kelly’s Criterion, to protect them from being over-aggressive. The size is halved while the expected growth rate is 75% of Kelly’s, which makes “Half Kelly” a welcoming choice.
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[BitDiceOfficial]

Current max win is 1% of the house bankroll.  It also has some restrictions.  If for example, a bet has a house edge of 0.5%, the max win is 0.5% of the house bankroll.  This applies to plinko bets, jackpot style bets, large multipliers, etc...

Previously we were operating at a true 3.3333 kelly.  For reference, BetKing was allowing for more than 10x true kelly and it had the highest profit of any crowdfunded site.  BitDice also allows for 10x kelly and has performed quite well (even at less than 70% expected value).

Just to clarify. www.bitdice.me now has investment options from 0.5x to 5x kelly. The higher options have been removed

[Chemistry1988]

Commitment to current and previous Investors:

Current day and previous investors will be credited so that they were in profit of at least their investment plus a bonus that equates to approximately 6% roi a year based on time invested going backward from today.  This will be credited over the next year from future earnings both from the current moneypot platform and other moneypot revenue streams.  Snapshots are taken from today.  However, going forward from today, there will be no extra credit.

Looks good to me (a previous investor). It would be great if a special page is set up for us to check whether our account is eligible to the bonus and how much bonus we could get. Or, could it be shown after the login page?

[fiscorcle]

Commitment to current and previous Investors:

Current day and previous investors will be credited so that they were in profit of at least their investment plus a bonus that equates to approximately 6% roi a year based on time invested going backward from today.  This will be credited over the next year from future earnings both from the current moneypot platform and other moneypot revenue streams.  Snapshots are taken from today.  However, going forward from today, there will be no extra credit.

Looks good to me (a previous investor). It would be great if a special page is set up for us to check whether our account is eligible to the bonus and how much bonus we could get. Or, could it be shown after the login page?

When will previous investors be reimbursed / how will that calculation take place?

[BillyBurns]

kool, thanks appreciate the kind gesture.

[fiscorcle]

Commitment to current and previous Investors:

Current day and previous investors will be credited so that they were in profit of at least their investment plus a bonus that equates to approximately 6% roi a year based on time invested going backward from today.  This will be credited over the next year from future earnings both from the current moneypot platform and other moneypot revenue streams.  Snapshots are taken from today.  However, going forward from today, there will be no extra credit.

Looks good to me (a previous investor). It would be great if a special page is set up for us to check whether our account is eligible to the bonus and how much bonus we could get. Or, could it be shown after the login page?

When will previous investors be reimbursed / how will that calculation take place?

Over the next year. We will be distributing partial income towards crediting investors.  Cant give an estimate on completed time, but the faster income we make the faster we can give it back to our investors. 

It will be calculated by the all invested - all divested from yesterday backwards.  We will then work on making this number be at a breakeven point plus 6% roi rate per year.

People were saying we weren't involved in the risk before. I dont think people can say thats true now.

And what exactly are we being compensated for?

[MinerHQ]

Is it true only investors lost the money in moneypot but moneypot owners and app owners are in profits?

I'm not so good in understanding the statistics, but from this table, it looks like only investors lost the money and others are in still profit. If it is true, then moneypot is not suitable for investors, right?

Yes, it's true.

The site and the apps make a guaranteed gain every time a bet is placed, even if the bet wins. When a bet wins, not only do the investors have to pay the winner of the bet, but they also have to pay the site and the app owner. You can see that in the screenshot. Comparing the left and right sides you see that while the site profit dropped by just 78.5 BTC, the investor profit dropped by 82.5 BTC. The app owners actually profited by 3 BTC from this large loss, and the site itself profited by a further 1 BTC. The investors made up the difference.

On the other hand, if the apps ever do better than expected then the investors will also do better than expected. The site and the apps take a percentage of the wagered amount, independent of the actual profit. The way things are set up means that when the site performs at less than 70% of expectation the investors take a loss.

If moneypot and app owners are not involved in risk taking than I don't consider such sites are safe to invest money and it is just my opinion because I think in some way site owners and app owners also need to pay these big wins then only I feel whole business model can grow in a healthy way otherwise I think it is not fair to push all losses to only investors. And I don't think hosting and maintaining site cost will be that high to push all big wins only to investors.

[ranlo]

Is it true only investors lost the money in moneypot but moneypot owners and app owners are in profits?

I'm not so good in understanding the statistics, but from this table, it looks like only investors lost the money and others are in still profit. If it is true, then moneypot is not suitable for investors, right?

Yes, it's true.

The site and the apps make a guaranteed gain every time a bet is placed, even if the bet wins. When a bet wins, not only do the investors have to pay the winner of the bet, but they also have to pay the site and the app owner. You can see that in the screenshot. Comparing the left and right sides you see that while the site profit dropped by just 78.5 BTC, the investor profit dropped by 82.5 BTC. The app owners actually profited by 3 BTC from this large loss, and the site itself profited by a further 1 BTC. The investors made up the difference.

On the other hand, if the apps ever do better than expected then the investors will also do better than expected. The site and the apps take a percentage of the wagered amount, independent of the actual profit. The way things are set up means that when the site performs at less than 70% of expectation the investors take a loss.

If moneypot and app owners are not involved in risk taking than I don't consider such sites are safe to invest money and it is just my opinion because I think in some way site owners and app owners also need to pay these big wins then only I feel whole business model can grow in a healthy way otherwise I think it is not fair to push all losses to only investors. And I don't think hosting and maintaining site cost will be that high to push all big wins only to investors.

App owners have their own costs. MP has their own costs (encapsulating coverage of all apps, development, time expense, etc.) PLUS has always had a large portion of the BR. To say MP has not had any "risks" is asinine. When the BR tanks, MP loses as well, not just investors, as MP is, at its core, an investor as well, both personally and business-oriented.

I also want to stress the fact that the grand total paid to ANY of the MP owners over the past year (which covers our ownership period) is exactly 0.00000000 BTC. ALL income that has been made has always been put back into the system for growth, development, etc. There has been a lot we've worked on behind the scenes, and just don't want to share at this point because people like to ask for a specific release date and then attack you if something slows that down and/or things change with regards to actual execution of ideas.

[klf]

Is it true only investors lost the money in moneypot but moneypot owners and app owners are in profits?

I'm not so good in understanding the statistics, but from this table, it looks like only investors lost the money and others are in still profit. If it is true, then moneypot is not suitable for investors, right?

Yes, it's true.

The site and the apps make a guaranteed gain every time a bet is placed, even if the bet wins. When a bet wins, not only do the investors have to pay the winner of the bet, but they also have to pay the site and the app owner. You can see that in the screenshot. Comparing the left and right sides you see that while the site profit dropped by just 78.5 BTC, the investor profit dropped by 82.5 BTC. The app owners actually profited by 3 BTC from this large loss, and the site itself profited by a further 1 BTC. The investors made up the difference.

On the other hand, if the apps ever do better than expected then the investors will also do better than expected. The site and the apps take a percentage of the wagered amount, independent of the actual profit. The way things are set up means that when the site performs at less than 70% of expectation the investors take a loss.

If moneypot and app owners are not involved in risk taking than I don't consider such sites are safe to invest money and it is just my opinion because I think in some way site owners and app owners also need to pay these big wins then only I feel whole business model can grow in a healthy way otherwise I think it is not fair to push all losses to only investors. And I don't think hosting and maintaining site cost will be that high to push all big wins only to investors.

App owners have their own costs. MP has their own costs (encapsulating coverage of all apps, development, time expense, etc.) PLUS has always had a large portion of the BR. To say MP has not had any "risks" is asinine. When the BR tanks, MP loses as well, not just investors, as MP is, at its core, an investor as well, both personally and business-oriented.

I also want to stress the fact that the grand total paid to ANY of the MP owners over the past year (which covers our ownership period) is exactly 0.00000000 BTC. ALL income that has been made has always been put back into the system for growth, development, etc. There has been a lot we've worked on behind the scenes, and just don't want to share at this point because people like to ask for a specific release date and then attack you if something slows that down and/or things change with regards to actual execution of ideas.

Is it a good idea that if anyone wins higher than certain % of bankroll then investors, app owners and moneypot should share equally all losses than only investors? I don't know it can be agreed by all and can be implemented this system. Just to show people that even owners also part to sharing those huge losses.

[yahoo62278]

Is it true only investors lost the money in moneypot but moneypot owners and app owners are in profits?

I'm not so good in understanding the statistics, but from this table, it looks like only investors lost the money and others are in still profit. If it is true, then moneypot is not suitable for investors, right?

Yes, it's true.

The site and the apps make a guaranteed gain every time a bet is placed, even if the bet wins. When a bet wins, not only do the investors have to pay the winner of the bet, but they also have to pay the site and the app owner. You can see that in the screenshot. Comparing the left and right sides you see that while the site profit dropped by just 78.5 BTC, the investor profit dropped by 82.5 BTC. The app owners actually profited by 3 BTC from this large loss, and the site itself profited by a further 1 BTC. The investors made up the difference.

On the other hand, if the apps ever do better than expected then the investors will also do better than expected. The site and the apps take a percentage of the wagered amount, independent of the actual profit. The way things are set up means that when the site performs at less than 70% of expectation the investors take a loss.

If moneypot and app owners are not involved in risk taking than I don't consider such sites are safe to invest money and it is just my opinion because I think in some way site owners and app owners also need to pay these big wins then only I feel whole business model can grow in a healthy way otherwise I think it is not fair to push all losses to only investors. And I don't think hosting and maintaining site cost will be that high to push all big wins only to investors.

Do you understand how the numbers break down at all? Or did you just try to think up something to say for your signature pay? I honestly think you really have no clue.

We as app owners make a whopping 40% of the house edge now. That means if we have a 1% House Edge we will make .004btc from every 1btc wagered. You think we are getting rich or something and youre incorrect. Now youre saying we should share in the big losses? Are you ignorant?

We app owners have hosting and domains to pay for. Then add in all the advertising we do. Now toss in dev costs(not exactly cheap). And lastly add in the promos we do(which have to be paid regardless of whether ppl are wagering or not if we announce them). For example i have a 1btc wagering contest going on on bubblesbit. 19 days into the month we have 72btc wagered. Do the math on the House edge now. we need 250btc wagered in the month to break even just on the promotion with the current app owners cut. 250-72 =178btc left to be wagered for us to break even. Im pretty sure im paying this promo out of my pocket buddy.

This doesnt include the fact that now moneypot also wants us to pay our own damn faucets now.

So i ask you how in the hell do you expect app owners to pay for big losses as well? Dont comment unless you have a fucking clue is all im saying.

[fiscorcle]

Is it true only investors lost the money in moneypot but moneypot owners and app owners are in profits?

I'm not so good in understanding the statistics, but from this table, it looks like only investors lost the money and others are in still profit. If it is true, then moneypot is not suitable for investors, right?

Yes, it's true.

The site and the apps make a guaranteed gain every time a bet is placed, even if the bet wins. When a bet wins, not only do the investors have to pay the winner of the bet, but they also have to pay the site and the app owner. You can see that in the screenshot. Comparing the left and right sides you see that while the site profit dropped by just 78.5 BTC, the investor profit dropped by 82.5 BTC. The app owners actually profited by 3 BTC from this large loss, and the site itself profited by a further 1 BTC. The investors made up the difference.

On the other hand, if the apps ever do better than expected then the investors will also do better than expected. The site and the apps take a percentage of the wagered amount, independent of the actual profit. The way things are set up means that when the site performs at less than 70% of expectation the investors take a loss.

If moneypot and app owners are not involved in risk taking than I don't consider such sites are safe to invest money and it is just my opinion because I think in some way site owners and app owners also need to pay these big wins then only I feel whole business model can grow in a healthy way otherwise I think it is not fair to push all losses to only investors. And I don't think hosting and maintaining site cost will be that high to push all big wins only to investors.

App owners have their own costs. MP has their own costs (encapsulating coverage of all apps, development, time expense, etc.) PLUS has always had a large portion of the BR. To say MP has not had any "risks" is asinine. When the BR tanks, MP loses as well, not just investors, as MP is, at its core, an investor as well, both personally and business-oriented.

I also want to stress the fact that the grand total paid to ANY of the MP owners over the past year (which covers our ownership period) is exactly 0.00000000 BTC. ALL income that has been made has always been put back into the system for growth, development, etc. There has been a lot we've worked on behind the scenes, and just don't want to share at this point because people like to ask for a specific release date and then attack you if something slows that down and/or things change with regards to actual execution of ideas.

What have you guys spent $100,000 on over the last year...?

[BillyBurns]

Lets act professional guys, no need for insults and raging.

[ranlo]

Is it true only investors lost the money in moneypot but moneypot owners and app owners are in profits?

I'm not so good in understanding the statistics, but from this table, it looks like only investors lost the money and others are in still profit. If it is true, then moneypot is not suitable for investors, right?

Yes, it's true.

The site and the apps make a guaranteed gain every time a bet is placed, even if the bet wins. When a bet wins, not only do the investors have to pay the winner of the bet, but they also have to pay the site and the app owner. You can see that in the screenshot. Comparing the left and right sides you see that while the site profit dropped by just 78.5 BTC, the investor profit dropped by 82.5 BTC. The app owners actually profited by 3 BTC from this large loss, and the site itself profited by a further 1 BTC. The investors made up the difference.

On the other hand, if the apps ever do better than expected then the investors will also do better than expected. The site and the apps take a percentage of the wagered amount, independent of the actual profit. The way things are set up means that when the site performs at less than 70% of expectation the investors take a loss.

If moneypot and app owners are not involved in risk taking than I don't consider such sites are safe to invest money and it is just my opinion because I think in some way site owners and app owners also need to pay these big wins then only I feel whole business model can grow in a healthy way otherwise I think it is not fair to push all losses to only investors. And I don't think hosting and maintaining site cost will be that high to push all big wins only to investors.

App owners have their own costs. MP has their own costs (encapsulating coverage of all apps, development, time expense, etc.) PLUS has always had a large portion of the BR. To say MP has not had any "risks" is asinine. When the BR tanks, MP loses as well, not just investors, as MP is, at its core, an investor as well, both personally and business-oriented.

I also want to stress the fact that the grand total paid to ANY of the MP owners over the past year (which covers our ownership period) is exactly 0.00000000 BTC. ALL income that has been made has always been put back into the system for growth, development, etc. There has been a lot we've worked on behind the scenes, and just don't want to share at this point because people like to ask for a specific release date and then attack you if something slows that down and/or things change with regards to actual execution of ideas.

What have you guys spent $100,000 on over the last year...?

The number shown/claimed on Dicesites is FAR from actual. We had zero commission for a significant period of the year, which isn't accounted for there. We didn't get even close to 100k. And that's assuming it was all kept in BTC. Our expenses are almost entirely fiat-based, where the value of BTC was much lower than it is today.

Anyways, I brought up the fact that we've taken zero satoshi because we are in this for the long-term, not short-term.

[NLNico]

Uhm my site is correct I don't use any fixed percentages or something like that. It's all calculated based on your stats.


I understand hosting and development is expensive though and BTC price was like half just some months ago.. so not trying to argue with that :p

[ranlo]

Uhm my site is correct I don't use any fixed percentages or something like that. It's all calculated based on your stats.

Is your site not assuming we've obtained commission off every BTC ever wagered? Because that's the part in question. The math itself is correct -- the encapsulated period (and thus wagered) for which we've obtained commission is not.

Also, to add on to the last post, we've given a decent amount of BTC to help with promos, reimburse users that had deposit issues back when they were a problem, etc. We will continue to show our dedication to both investors AND players through the coming years, proving time and time again that we're in it for the long haul, .

[AcoinL.L.C]

Lets act professional guys, no need for insults and raging.

Unfortunately most posts are made by trolls (i.e. fiscorcle) is almost certainly an alt account of "Lanzador" (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=888795)), or are made by signature spammers looking to get paid.

[NLNico]

Uhm my site is correct I don't use any fixed percentages or something like that. It's all calculated based on your stats.

Is your site not assuming we've obtained commission off every BTC ever wagered? Because that's the part in question. The math itself is correct -- the encapsulated period (and thus wagered) for which we've obtained commission is not.

No. I get the profit and commission of all apps. Combine all profit, subtract total app commission, subtract investor profit.. leftover is MP "profit". So it doesn't matter if your commission is 0% or 20%.. I don't use that