🌟🎲🌟 MoneyPot.com

[dooglus]

New Commission Structure:
App Owners will receive 40% of the house edge and 10% of investor profit
Moneypot will receive 10% of the house edge and 10% of investor profit
Investors will stand to make an additional 10% (40%) of the house edge.

So the house edge used to be split 50% to app, 20% to MP, leaving 30% to investors if the actual profit matched expectation.
And now it's split 40% to app, 10% to MP, 40% (10% more than before) to investors? Where's the missing 10% going now? (40+10+40 = 90, not 100)

Did you mean to say this instead?

> Investors will stand to make an additional 20% (50%) of the house edge.

Or did I misunderstand?

[Sora Aoi]

New Commission Structure:
App Owners will receive 40% of the house edge and 10% of investor profit
Moneypot will receive 10% of the house edge and 10% of investor profit
Investors will stand to make an additional 10% (40%) of the house edge.

So the house edge used to be split 50% to app, 20% to MP, leaving 30% to investors if the actual profit matched expectation.
And now it's split 40% to app, 10% to MP, 40% (10% more than before) to investors? Where's the missing 10% going now? (40+10+40 = 90, not 100)

Did you mean to say this instead?

> Investors will stand to make an additional 20% (50%) of the house edge.

Or did I misunderstand?

I think this is how it breaks down assuming investors run at neutral ev.

App Owners: 40% house edge+10% of the 50% investor profit(5% house edge)= 45% house edge
Money Pot: 10% house edge+10% of the 50% investor profit(5% house edge)= 15% house edge
Investor: 50% house edge-20% of the 50% investor profit= 40% house edge

[gapjustin]

New Commission Structure:
App Owners will receive 40% of the house edge and 10% of investor profit
Moneypot will receive 10% of the house edge and 10% of investor profit
Investors will stand to make an additional 10% (40%) of the house edge.

So the house edge used to be split 50% to app, 20% to MP, leaving 30% to investors if the actual profit matched expectation.
And now it's split 40% to app, 10% to MP, 40% (10% more than before) to investors? Where's the missing 10% going now? (40+10+40 = 90, not 100)

Did you mean to say this instead?

> Investors will stand to make an additional 20% (50%) of the house edge.

Or did I misunderstand?

You misunderstood
40% to app + 10% of the actual profit (aka app owners can also lose money now I think)
10% to Mp
40% to investors

[dooglus]

I think this is how it breaks down assuming investors run at neutral ev.

App Owners: 40% house edge+10% of the 50% investor profit(5% house edge)= 45% house edge
Money Pot: 10% house edge+10% of the 50% investor profit(5% house edge)= 15% house edge
Investor: 50% house edge-20% of the 50% investor profit= 40% house edge

Oh yes, that makes sense.

So the expected total commission has dropped from 70% (50+20) to 60% (45+15).

I hadn't realized before that you can't calculate the expected commission by simply summing the 'on house edge' and 'on profit' percentages.

For example, BetKing used to take 25% up front (on the house edge) and another 25% of the actual profits. I always assumed that represented a 50% expected commission (25+25), but now it seems like it was 'only' 25 + (0.75*25) = 43.75%. Do I have it right now?

[joter85]

App owners and moneypot owners have no risk whatsoever. They take commision from the wagered bitcoins, investors take the real risk of players gambling against their bankroll. So yes, only investors lost.

App owners incur the cost of hosting the app and the cost of marketing/attracting players to play at their app. MP owners incur the cost of attracting app owners to develop MP apps and to attract players to play at MP, as well as the cost of securing funds, and the various seeds.

A lot of the costs that both app owners and MP owners incur will be incurred regardless of betting volume, so they are risking that betting volumes will not be high enough so that commissions on bets to cover the costs.

On a per bet basis, it is correct to say that MP owners and app owners do not bear any risk on each individual bet, however it is far from accurate to say that they do not bear any risk at all.

Yeah, I was referring to per bet basis as you said it. Didn't take the other costs in consideration.

Nevertheless I'd still say investors' risk is way greater than it should be.

It depends how you look at it. Sites like crypto games and safe dice give 70% ish to investors

but

sites like BetKing are proposing to give just 30% to investors, same as MP

but

BetKing will also share in the losses
So, it's really uncharted territory here that we're in now

Also worth pointing out is that Crypto-Games takes commission AND faucets from the investment pool. So they aren't even covering all the marketing costs -- investors are.

There you go - and I think their faucet is much higher than MP's. Not to mention their rainbot...

Don't make false statements here. Crypto-Games.net Rainbot funds come from owners and donators, investors have nothing with it.

What concerns investments
We (owners) take 30% of the profit/losses! and 70% belongs to investors. Detailed explanation is in our FAQ.

Crypto-Games cant be compared at all to moneypot. There are no apps or something like that. It even seems to be the best deal for investors because the client seed is generated by Math.random. So the site can easiely cheat the users whenever it wants.

This is well known to the owners, because they used same for serverseed at the start, until someone tried to make bank with that knowledge.
So this isnt even provably fair at all, but a pretty good deal for investors.

Ofc this doesnt belong to this thread, but thought i should mention it (;

We don't use Math.random to generate client seed for few months now. We have removed it because some users complain about it. But am curios how could we abuse it without any clientseed hash... ? Would appreciate your expert explanation.

[CrazyCraig]

App owners and moneypot owners have no risk whatsoever. They take commision from the wagered bitcoins, investors take the real risk of players gambling against their bankroll. So yes, only investors lost.

App owners incur the cost of hosting the app and the cost of marketing/attracting players to play at their app. MP owners incur the cost of attracting app owners to develop MP apps and to attract players to play at MP, as well as the cost of securing funds, and the various seeds.

A lot of the costs that both app owners and MP owners incur will be incurred regardless of betting volume, so they are risking that betting volumes will not be high enough so that commissions on bets to cover the costs.

On a per bet basis, it is correct to say that MP owners and app owners do not bear any risk on each individual bet, however it is far from accurate to say that they do not bear any risk at all.

Yeah, I was referring to per bet basis as you said it. Didn't take the other costs in consideration.

Nevertheless I'd still say investors' risk is way greater than it should be.

It depends how you look at it. Sites like crypto games and safe dice give 70% ish to investors

but

sites like BetKing are proposing to give just 30% to investors, same as MP

but

BetKing will also share in the losses
So, it's really uncharted territory here that we're in now

Also worth pointing out is that Crypto-Games takes commission AND faucets from the investment pool. So they aren't even covering all the marketing costs -- investors are.

There you go - and I think their faucet is much higher than MP's. Not to mention their rainbot...

Don't make false statements here. Crypto-Games.net Rainbot funds come from owners and donators, investors have nothing with it.

What concerns investments
We (owners) take 30% of the profit/losses! and 70% belongs to investors. Detailed explanation is in our FAQ.

Crypto-Games cant be compared at all to moneypot. There are no apps or something like that. It even seems to be the best deal for investors because the client seed is generated by Math.random. So the site can easiely cheat the users whenever it wants.

This is well known to the owners, because they used same for serverseed at the start, until someone tried to make bank with that knowledge.
So this isnt even provably fair at all, but a pretty good deal for investors.

Ofc this doesnt belong to this thread, but thought i should mention it (;

We don't use Math.random to generate client seed for few months now. We have removed it because some users complain about it. But am curios how could we abuse it without any clientseed hash... ? Would appreciate your expert explanation.

We encourage our apps to offer the ability to our users to choose math.random and static seeds. We believe it should truly be in the hands of the user. From what I have learned over the last few months, if anything, is that there will always be someone to say you are doing something wrong. Just ignore it and carry about your day. Listen to your user base.

[fiscorcle]

Lets act professional guys, no need for insults and raging.

Unfortunately most posts are made by trolls (i.e. fiscorcle) is almost certainly an alt account of "Lanzador" (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=888795)), or are made by signature spammers looking to get paid.

Chill man. I had no idea that you guys weren't taking commission for extended periods (did you tell anyone???).

And even if I am getting paid that's the same as everyone else here why does that make me worse than them?

EDIT:

Also - to specify, does taking 25% of investor profit mean sharing in the losses as well?

[DarkStar_]

Also - to specify, does taking 25% of investor profit mean sharing in the losses as well?

Pretty sure it's 20% investor profit, since it is 10% each. Anyway, I assume it will be like other sites that take your profit as a commission, where if you profit, they take their cut, and when you don't profit, they just take nothing.

[BillyBurns]

someone just invested 300 btc

[Karartma1]

Over the last year, there are a lot of things that we honestly could have done better and we are taking action now to try and re-balance things even if it means giving up a significant amount of bitcoin out of pocket to do so.

All of you know that this race is won on the long run. Better lose a bit from your pocket now and then be able to earn more than to be greedy on the short term and make everything go nuts.
It will pay out, patience is required.
I like the quote on your homepage: don't forget it. 

[fiscorcle]

I think this is how it breaks down assuming investors run at neutral ev.

App Owners: 40% house edge+10% of the 50% investor profit(5% house edge)= 45% house edge
Money Pot: 10% house edge+10% of the 50% investor profit(5% house edge)= 15% house edge
Investor: 50% house edge-20% of the 50% investor profit= 40% house edge

Oh yes, that makes sense.

So the expected total commission has dropped from 70% (50+20) to 60% (45+15).

I hadn't realized before that you can't calculate the expected commission by simply summing the 'on house edge' and 'on profit' percentages.

For example, BetKing used to take 25% up front (on the house edge) and another 25% of the actual profits. I always assumed that represented a 50% expected commission (25+25), but now it seems like it was 'only' 25 + (0.75*25) = 43.75%. Do I have it right now?

This is how we believe the math works out.  We asked Ryan to assist us with the math and he believes this is correct as well.

The commission of investor profit will work much like other sites where if there is no profit, no commission will be made at that time.

Like Ranlo stated before, this is a move with the long term in mind. 

We don't plan to go anywhere, and we want to show that we are fully committed to our product and believe in it.  It will be much more than just a gaming wallet.

While we didn't need to credit any investors, we wanted to.  There's no hiding the fact that the investor profit has dropped significantly over the last few months (it's started to rise again a bit in the last week).  Over the last year, there are a lot of things that we honestly could have done better and we are taking action now to try and re-balance things even if it means giving up a significant amount of bitcoin out of pocket to do so. 

We want to try and establish ourselves as a company that tries to do right by everyone, listen, observe, and adjust as necessary. 

We see the big picture and it is bright.  In our minds, this type of 'insurance policy' to make sure that we are able to easier reach where we want to be is more than worth it.

Well as a former investor (and maybe future?) I definitely appreciate your actions (even if I don't like getting attacked by Acoin every time I utter a single critical word).  Still looking forward to v2 and Rubies!

[3x1t]

App owners and moneypot owners have no risk whatsoever. They take commision from the wagered bitcoins, investors take the real risk of players gambling against their bankroll. So yes, only investors lost.

App owners incur the cost of hosting the app and the cost of marketing/attracting players to play at their app. MP owners incur the cost of attracting app owners to develop MP apps and to attract players to play at MP, as well as the cost of securing funds, and the various seeds.

A lot of the costs that both app owners and MP owners incur will be incurred regardless of betting volume, so they are risking that betting volumes will not be high enough so that commissions on bets to cover the costs.

On a per bet basis, it is correct to say that MP owners and app owners do not bear any risk on each individual bet, however it is far from accurate to say that they do not bear any risk at all.

Yeah, I was referring to per bet basis as you said it. Didn't take the other costs in consideration.

Nevertheless I'd still say investors' risk is way greater than it should be.

It depends how you look at it. Sites like crypto games and safe dice give 70% ish to investors

but

sites like BetKing are proposing to give just 30% to investors, same as MP

but

BetKing will also share in the losses
So, it's really uncharted territory here that we're in now

Also worth pointing out is that Crypto-Games takes commission AND faucets from the investment pool. So they aren't even covering all the marketing costs -- investors are.

There you go - and I think their faucet is much higher than MP's. Not to mention their rainbot...

Don't make false statements here. Crypto-Games.net Rainbot funds come from owners and donators, investors have nothing with it.

What concerns investments
We (owners) take 30% of the profit/losses! and 70% belongs to investors. Detailed explanation is in our FAQ.

Crypto-Games cant be compared at all to moneypot. There are no apps or something like that. It even seems to be the best deal for investors because the client seed is generated by Math.random. So the site can easiely cheat the users whenever it wants.

This is well known to the owners, because they used same for serverseed at the start, until someone tried to make bank with that knowledge.
So this isnt even provably fair at all, but a pretty good deal for investors.

Ofc this doesnt belong to this thread, but thought i should mention it (;

We don't use Math.random to generate client seed for few months now. We have removed it because some users complain about it. But am curios how could we abuse it without any clientseed hash... ? Would appreciate your expert explanation.

Nice to hear that it has been finally changed.

To explain it simple:

If a user makes a bet then the clientseed together with some other data like betsize etc are send to the server(your server) which basically gives u the clientseed of the bet. If the user did that a couple times you have a couple clientseeds.
Now you could use that clientseeds and easiely predict the upcoming ones.

Btw. why you play the stupid ? You did same mistake with the serverseeds some time ago until someone figured it out and made some money with. Or maybe im missinformed on that. Idk...

[jdacer95]

i cant log in to coinmillion is currently down

[joter85]

App owners and moneypot owners have no risk whatsoever. They take commision from the wagered bitcoins, investors take the real risk of players gambling against their bankroll. So yes, only investors lost.

App owners incur the cost of hosting the app and the cost of marketing/attracting players to play at their app. MP owners incur the cost of attracting app owners to develop MP apps and to attract players to play at MP, as well as the cost of securing funds, and the various seeds.

A lot of the costs that both app owners and MP owners incur will be incurred regardless of betting volume, so they are risking that betting volumes will not be high enough so that commissions on bets to cover the costs.

On a per bet basis, it is correct to say that MP owners and app owners do not bear any risk on each individual bet, however it is far from accurate to say that they do not bear any risk at all.

Yeah, I was referring to per bet basis as you said it. Didn't take the other costs in consideration.

Nevertheless I'd still say investors' risk is way greater than it should be.

It depends how you look at it. Sites like crypto games and safe dice give 70% ish to investors

but

sites like BetKing are proposing to give just 30% to investors, same as MP

but

BetKing will also share in the losses
So, it's really uncharted territory here that we're in now

Also worth pointing out is that Crypto-Games takes commission AND faucets from the investment pool. So they aren't even covering all the marketing costs -- investors are.

There you go - and I think their faucet is much higher than MP's. Not to mention their rainbot...

Don't make false statements here. Crypto-Games.net Rainbot funds come from owners and donators, investors have nothing with it.

What concerns investments
We (owners) take 30% of the profit/losses! and 70% belongs to investors. Detailed explanation is in our FAQ.

Crypto-Games cant be compared at all to moneypot. There are no apps or something like that. It even seems to be the best deal for investors because the client seed is generated by Math.random. So the site can easiely cheat the users whenever it wants.

This is well known to the owners, because they used same for serverseed at the start, until someone tried to make bank with that knowledge.
So this isnt even provably fair at all, but a pretty good deal for investors.

Ofc this doesnt belong to this thread, but thought i should mention it (;

We don't use Math.random to generate client seed for few months now. We have removed it because some users complain about it. But am curios how could we abuse it without any clientseed hash... ? Would appreciate your expert explanation.

Nice to hear that it has been finally changed.

To explain it simple:

If a user makes a bet then the clientseed together with some other data like betsize etc are send to the server(your server) which basically gives u the clientseed of the bet. If the user did that a couple times you have a couple clientseeds.
Now you could use that clientseeds and easiely predict the upcoming ones.

Btw. why you play the stupid ? You did same mistake with the serverseeds some time ago until someone figured it out and made some money with. Or maybe im missinformed on that. Idk...

Yeah like that Math.random only generates "couple" of clientseeds. Thought you have something. Never mind.

We never used Math.random on serverseed. So yeah, you are missinformed on that.

[3x1t]

Thats weird, could have sworn it was even you who told it.
Nvm ... guess we could welcome you to the world of provably fair sites then.

Or wait, what algo you using now to generate clientseeds ?

Btw... ye it generates as many seeds as you want. You might want to read up on that if you still dont know how it works.

[chris200x9]

Can somebody explain to me how profit and losses sharing will works here?

Case one - player wins 1 BTC from any moneypot app in single bet.

What I know is -

40% to app owners ( 40% of the house edge) equals to - 0.004 BTC
10% to Mp ( 10% of the house edge) equals to - 0.001 BTC

Investors need to pay - 1BTC+ 0.004+0.001 = 1.005BTC in total will disappear from the investors account.

Case two - player losses 1 BTC in any moneypot app in single bet.

What I know is -

40% to app owners ( 40% of the house edge) equals to - 0.004 BTC
10% to Mp ( 10% of the house edge) equals to - 0.001 BTC
40% to investors - ( 40% of the house edge) equals to - 0.004 BTC

All together is 0.009 BTC

If we deduct this 0.009 BTC from 1 BTC = 0.991 BTC

Please explain to me who will take this 0.991 BTC and how it will be distributed

I know my understanding is not correct. Thanks

[BlockChainLottery]

Can somebody explain to me how profit and losses sharing will works here?

Case one - player wins 1 BTC from any moneypot app in single bet.

What I know is -

40% to app owners ( 40% of the house edge) equals to - 0.004 BTC
10% to Mp ( 10% of the house edge) equals to - 0.001 BTC

Investors need to pay - 1BTC+ 0.004+0.001 = 1.005BTC in total will disappear from the investors account.

Case two - player losses 1 BTC in any moneypot app in single bet.

What I know is -

40% to app owners ( 40% of the house edge) equals to - 0.004 BTC
10% to Mp ( 10% of the house edge) equals to - 0.001 BTC
40% to investors - ( 40% of the house edge) equals to - 0.004 BTC

All together is 0.009 BTC

If we deduct this 0.009 BTC from 1 BTC = 0.991 BTC

Please explain to me who will take this 0.991 BTC and how it will be distributed

I know my understanding is not correct. Thanks

First of all, with 1% house edge, to win 1 btc with a multiplier of 2, the one who is betting must wager 1.01btc.

Case 1: 50% of house edge goes to MP, 50% of he to app owners, and investors have 1btc loss
Case 2: he is the same as in case 1, 1btc goes to investors

Edit: multiplier

[Edraket31]

Can somebody explain to me how profit and losses sharing will works here?

Case one - player wins 1 BTC from any moneypot app in single bet.

What I know is -

40% to app owners ( 40% of the house edge) equals to - 0.004 BTC
10% to Mp ( 10% of the house edge) equals to - 0.001 BTC

Investors need to pay - 1BTC+ 0.004+0.001 = 1.005BTC in total will disappear from the investors account.

Case two - player losses 1 BTC in any moneypot app in single bet.

What I know is -

40% to app owners ( 40% of the house edge) equals to - 0.004 BTC
10% to Mp ( 10% of the house edge) equals to - 0.001 BTC
40% to investors - ( 40% of the house edge) equals to - 0.004 BTC

All together is 0.009 BTC

If we deduct this 0.009 BTC from 1 BTC = 0.991 BTC

Please explain to me who will take this 0.991 BTC and how it will be distributed

I know my understanding is not correct. Thanks

First of all, with 1% house edge, to win 1 btc, the one who is betting must wager 1.01btc.

Case 1: 50% of house edge goes to investors, 50% of he to app owners, and investors have 1btc loss
Case 2: he is the same as in case 1, 1btc goes to investors

Wrong, even .01btc can win 1btc if it hit 100x multiplier.

Case1: correct
Case2: .004btc will go to the app owner, .001btc to moneypot and the .995btc will go to the investors

If im wrong, please correct me

[BlockChainLottery]

I forgot to mention in my example, it uses a multiplier of 2.

Furthermore, i think your example isn't right.

[DarkStar_]

Can somebody explain to me how profit and losses sharing will works here?

Case one - player wins 1 BTC from any moneypot app in single bet.

What I know is -

40% to app owners ( 40% of the house edge) equals to - 0.004 BTC
10% to Mp ( 10% of the house edge) equals to - 0.001 BTC

Investors need to pay - 1BTC+ 0.004+0.001 = 1.005BTC in total will disappear from the investors account.

Case two - player losses 1 BTC in any moneypot app in single bet.

What I know is -

40% to app owners ( 40% of the house edge) equals to - 0.004 BTC
10% to Mp ( 10% of the house edge) equals to - 0.001 BTC
40% to investors - ( 40% of the house edge) equals to - 0.004 BTC

All together is 0.009 BTC

If we deduct this 0.009 BTC from 1 BTC = 0.991 BTC

Please explain to me who will take this 0.991 BTC and how it will be distributed

I know my understanding is not correct. Thanks

First of all, with 1% house edge, to win 1 btc, the one who is betting must wager 1.01btc.

Case 1: 50% of house edge goes to investors, 50% of he to app owners, and investors have 1btc loss
Case 2: he is the same as in case 1, 1btc goes to investors

Wrong, even .01btc can win 1btc if it hit 100x multiplier.

Case1: correct
Case2: .004btc will go to the app owner, .001btc to moneypot and the .995btc will go to the investors

If im wrong, please correct me

You're wrong. If it's a .01 BTC bet, assuming 1% house edge, the app owner will get 0.00004 BTC, and moneypot gets 0.00001BTC, as their share is based on the bet size and house edge, not attempted win.

If someone loses 1 BTC, I assume the app owner would get 0.1 BTC, moneypot gets 0.1 BTC (and both get their normal house edge share), and investors get ~0.8BTC.