POLL - Which crypto do you feel is the biggest "scam"? - - REVISED 4 ACCURACY -

[explorer]

explorer, everyone figured out what the poll should have asked and answered based on what it should ask. We humans are very smart and adaptable.

ArticMine, very well written and solid points. Thanks.

Ah, so 'everyone' is a mind reader!  Good to know.   If the OP meant what 'everyone' thought, then why not ask that question?  Would they then have answered this question?  The mind boggles.

[smooth]

explorer, everyone figured out what the poll should have asked and answered based on what it should ask. We humans are very smart and adaptable.

ArticMine, very well written and solid points. Thanks.

Explorer's answer may be correct even based on what the poll is trying to ask. In the sense that to the extent BTC is a scam (and there is not no basis for that) it has scammed more people for more money than all the others combined.

ArticMine's point is also valid. There have been more blatant scams than Dash. Then again we never know what is really going on behind the scenes with any of these coins (i.e. the most well executed scams may not even be recognized by scams at all) and Dash's instamine is particularly subject to that question since it is by its nature deceptive (Bytecoin too).

[explorer]

explorer, everyone figured out what the poll should have asked and answered based on what it should ask. We humans are very smart and adaptable.

ArticMine, very well written and solid points. Thanks.

Explorer's answer may be correct even based on what the poll is trying to ask. In the sense that to the extent BTC is a scam (and there is not no basis for that) it has scammed more people for more money than all the others combined.

ArticMine's point is also valid. There have been more blatant scams than Dash. Then again we never know what is really going on behind the scenes with any of these coins (i.e. the most well executed scams may not even be recognized by scams at all) and Dash's instamine is particularly subject to that question since it is by its nature deceptive (Bytecoin too).

Again, an assumption yet to be clarified by the OPS (original pot stirrer)

EDIT:
OP's OP in this thread does actually clarify somewhat, but the poll question is still the poll question.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

Dash definitely,  I hear it constantly and Im not surprised at the poll results.   I still like it as a coin though.

[cryptohunter]

Scams fall into 2 groups really.

1. No tech - no value shit that was sold off under false promises and lies to people on this board. The only intention of the dev was to extract btc from other less tech savvy individuals.

2. tech savvy devs who gamed the distribution so that they and a few pals control the supply and keep prices high - again subtracting max BTC from everyone else on the board. Then when eventually they have taken as much BTC as they can. They will move to another project and repeat this.

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1.Dash clearly the leader - planned and executed scam. Although you could call it an honest slap in the face scam. No real attempt to cover the ruthless scamming and accumulation of coins. I mean in a way it is a 100% fool proof way to run a scam. He however has stuck by his project and not dumped it for another similar scam. I think he knows you can only pull a scam that big one time. I witnessed the scam as it happened.

However there are other scams far more subtle but probably more harmful - we don't brand them as scams since it's not as easy to prove.

When I talk about distribution now I mean with regard this board. Not the wider world of 7 billion others who don't care a shit about crypto nor other life in the universe to whom crypto is ancient technology. This board is where all crypto is born (99%) and there is no excuse at all for poor distribution within this community since we here make up the majority of miners/traders and advertisers for crypto.

If you are going to be scammed in crypto you probably are a member of this forum. If you are interested enough at all to buy crypto you will probably be reading this board regularly.

Most ICO's are not transparent and therefore need to be hugely marketed and last a long time to ensure not just the devs and small group of people buy huge chunks and have huge control on the supply therefore ensuring massive price inflation.

NAS - entire minting shared to perhaps 10 people - total scam although some realised nobody was interested and sold a bit off cheap to others.

NXT - can you seriously only distribute to a handful of people? - maybe not a scam but terrible initial distribution let's hope all involved would never make the same mistake again. The early NXT investors even realised themselves to share the wealth at the start because nobody else would be interested otherwise. Looked ground breaking to everyone at the time.

IOTA - not a 100% scam - but again the ICO was pretty poor and not many heard about it. Comes from NXT people. Although it raised money I really wonder how many people really invested. I would suspect the distribution is very poor.

I would love to know who got what here. Again you'll hear from around the same few people who did get it that everyone else is butthurt for missing out and it was all above board and fair. It was hardly mentioned. If you want to buy any now it's 30x ico price (which is more than etheriums increase on the ico price) showing for some reason although everyone knew about the ico they for some reason waited until nothing more happened with the project but are 30x more keen to buy hence the reasonable price hike of 3000% . It's a very bad start. I suggested they ran a 2nd ICO at even 200% price over initial ico. Why not? more money for the project and more support from the board members. NAH they told me we want 30X not 2x. That is their mistake. Like the dash group who stopped the air drop. They simply ensured their coin would forever be held up as a scam. This is not on dash levels but still not the way to ICO. I wait the pumping before exchange release.

POW - any NINJA launch is a blatant scam. There is always one person that is sure to spot this ninja launch first and be raping that chain before everyone else....that's right the dev. Even when other stumble upon the thread the competition is so tiny that the dev and his pals have taken all the easy coins. You can lay out a POW protocol that makes it hard for anyone person to take a huge amount of the coins. Yes bot net might jump on but some coins the diff increases so much that they could be wasting good botnet time on a worthless venture. Besides some well advertised launches have 100s of miners if not 1000s ready to jump on.


below are not scams imho ...mentioned only as examples
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Bitbay - NOT A SCAM NOW - was a scam at the start. Maybe the largest yet of the obvious scams. Was a collaboration of exchange owners and pump groups. These people conspired to take 1000's of BTC and also dump all of their bay on the markets to deliberately destroy the coin and the investors funds. Most people left the project with a bad taste. How the original scammers are not in jail I have no idea. The people remaining and working on the project are honest and hardworking with the peanuts they had left after the criminals turned it over.


ICO with NO POW at all can be assumed scams. They have no transparency so you must assume the worst on here since there is no regulation.
SOme try a lot harder than others to give fair opportunity.



LISK (trying hard not to be a scam regards distribution only)- although i have no idea if the design is any good. They are trying very hard and have advertised as hard as you can reasonably expect on this board. You can't view a page without 5 huge lisk banners in people sigs and they are giving free coins for facebook, twitter and other social media.


There are those who will tell you there are 7 billion people in this planet and if you distributed to every person equally on here you still have terrible distribution in the grander scale.

The thing is the only people that say that are those that heavily invested in the project.

How many of the 7 billion have heard or invested even in BTC. All crypto investors for the most part will be reading this board they will be the ones taking the big hits and damage from pump and dump coins.

Sure distributing to the 7 billion would be better. But as with most things in this world you must be reasonable. The effort and possiblity to tell everyone on the planet about your ICO is not the same as advertising through sigs and running some threads on the main board. Also with NEM (who tried hardest yet to give good distribution) there was nobody on this board who was even remotely active in the alt community who did hear and have huge opportunity to become involved in the ICO.


Ethereum... I don't rate it as a full on scam. I missed the ico (by being indecisive and not wanting to blow more BTC)

I missed buying for $1 missed buying for $5 ..I currently own no etherium that I have bought. Although have mined a tiny few.

Yes I was butthurt/annoyed by missing this huge gambling opportunity. However coming from losing much more on other alts it was not a new feeling so I was used to it.
I don't feel the distribution was a full on scam. They took a lot for themselves and paid themselves well as they said they would. They also have POW for miners to participate. They are what I would term openly greedy but nothing underhanded.

I don't comment on the tech regarding ethereum. If it's being over hyped and wont work on real world scales and they know this but just dragging it on to unload more eth and use more BTC then that isn't going to go down well.

XMR -not a scam and run by a guy that seems smart.
problem was (not their fault since still  there is no good gui) that to mine it was kind of too tricky at the start at a lot of regular miners couldn't mine it. Initial distribution with regards this board and nomral miners i would guess was not great but then it wasn't intentionally like that and lots was sold cheap to those that couldnt mine.

POW to me is far easier to analyse for scams than ICO. ICO with no POW at all needs to be very carefully done. The onus should be on them go above and beyond to prove the ICO was conducted well.

[schlonged]

Thanks for all the thoughtful responses.  I see that the crypto herd has a different definition of the term "scam" as it applies to business.

Where I come from, you would call every company a scam simply because a company's board of directors "mined" more shares into existence. Well, this happens literally every business day on Wall Street, where anything that is transparently known to the general public (such as the number of shares a person owns), cannot legally be defined as a scam.  Any investor who invests knowingly in a "premined" company is definitely not being scammed in the traditional sense of the word.

It seems that you have expanded the definition of the word "scam" to include publically traded companies like Apple and Facebook with the thieves at Mt Gox.  I was looking for a little more "Bernie Madoff" with his blatant lies and a little less "Jeff Bezos" with his massive pile of company stock that everyone in the world knows that he legally owns.

But it is still interesting to hear what the youth of today considers an "injustice"

Maybe you will elect Bernie sanders and make it illegal for Evan to own so many shares of a single company.

I obviously am out of touch with the socialist youth of today. When I say I will make America great again, I plan to do it by strengthening Evan's right to own as much private intellectual property  as he can humanly create, and not put him in jail for showing you his hand.

[smooth]

Thanks for all the thoughtful responses.  I see that the crypto herd has a different definition of the term "scam" as it applies to business.

Where I come from, you would call every company a scam simply because a company's board of directors "mined" more shares into existence.

I would not.

I would call it a scam when they announce that the IPO shares will be sold for $10 on Tuesday, and the board suddenly decides to sell shares for $1 on Monday but only to people who show up for the unannounced discount (i.e. themselves and their friends). In fact, the stock certificates given out on Money had a misprint -- extra zero on the share amount -- so everyone who showed up on Monday got 10x as many shares for the same IPO price. Oops. Too late to correct the error of course, better let it stand.

Oh, and there is no prospectus available on Monday or Tuesday, only a scrap of paper that says the IPO will be used to start a penis pill company. In fact it is going to be used to develop useful software, but only the board and its friends know that there is a detailed prospectus describing a plan to develop useful software, but they never released it until Wednesday.

You get the idea.

Accurately disclosed premines and ICOs are not scams (though scamming may occur later) in my opinion, but opinions differ.

[schlonged]

I see your point smooth, so DASH is the only crypto on the list to "find" unaccounted for shares post IPO and keep them instead of burning them?

If that is the case, then this type of behavior is truly scam worthy.

A "scam" is a lie or misreprentation. A prime example of which is:

"Paycoins can be redeemed for $10 each"

which of course is a false statement

Not spending a lot of money to promote your IPO is certainly not a misrepresentation of truth.

[smooth]

I see your point smooth, so DASH is the only crypto on the list to "find" unaccounted for shares post IPO and keep them instead of burning them?

I have no idea

If that is the case, then this type of behavior is truly scam worthy.

If others did do it, that makes it not a scam?

A "scam" is a lie or misreprentation. A prime example of which is:

"Paycoins can be redeemed for $10 each"

which of course is a false statement

Yes that is form of "scam", and that is one example of a lie or misrepresentation. Other examples would be stating that the coin will "definitely not" be launched in a few hours (and then ambush launching it, with millions of extra coins distributed "by accident" almost immediately), or claiming to be working on it as a "hobby" when you have simultaneously been recruiting behind the scenes to launch a coin as a "for-profit startup".

It takes stupidity to a whole new level for a Dash supporter to create a poll like this not realizing that Dash is one of the most infamous instamine scams and will surely be highly voted as such (even if I don't agree it is the "biggest" or "worst" scam necessarily).

[Spoetnik]

If you are really looking to find a scam, the elephant in the room is Dash.

The dev premined boatloads due to a 'mistake' and he didnt fix it because the community was cool with it

ETH premined ALL the coins..

and OP asking people here in your title to be honest is clever.. they have to now !!!  

I voted ETH for a bunch of factors but we got a big mess going on here.

The Ripple guys were laughed off this forum but later 6,000 coins copied the IPO centralization / distribution model

I could write a thick book on the top 10 LOL

The biggest scam here ?
You dumb fucking idiots for shoveling MILLIONS of dollars at all these shitty ass scam coins.
Like ? Doge coin Nascar paintjobs or MEW Monero funding for "Retro Virtual City" Forum topic games for "adoption"

Look in the mirror rather than pointing the finger crypto supporters hahahha

EDIT:
MemoryCoin was the scammiest coin i ever seen (the alpha version of Protoshares pretty much)
It was Mensa level scammy ..i was actually impressed ROFL

[smooth]

If you are really looking to find a scam, the elephant in the room is Dash.

The dev premined boatloads due to a 'mistake' and he didnt fix it because the community was cool with it

ETH premined ALL the coins..

No, ETH has mining, at least for a year or two until they switch to PoS. It seems like the premine will end up being something like 70% or so, unless PoS is delayed, in which case it will be lower.

Coins or tokens like Nxt/Factom/Ripple are 100% premined. Pretty different.

[crazywack]

Dash and ETH for sure,

Dash for the premine and ETH because I didn't buy in and I'm angry I didn't make money on it. But every time I wanted to I felt myself pulling away from a buy. It's a contract system that is being played like a currency, either cuz people don't know or don't care.

[azguard]

...

It is hilarious that Monero supporters hate Dash so much, they waste their vote on Dash and allow Ethereum to be less scammy than Monero in the poll. Emotions run hotter than strategic logic.

It is also a question of familiarity. Many people would not vote for example for Factum simply because they haven't spent the time to analyze it. All I know about it is that it is highly centralized. that is enough for one to eliminate it as a possible investment. It also means I would not spend any further time investigating it. My approach to Ethereum was similar. After I saw the pictures of spinning diamonds in their lavish marketing campaign that was enough for me to say no. So why spend the effort to investigate it in detail?

I would say many Moenro supporters would list Bytecoin at the top of the scam list on the basis of an 82% premine disguised as an 82% ninjamine. Dash has attracted a lot of attention among Monero supporters because at one point it was seen as direct competitor to Monero, so one spends the time on the competition. I must say that by any objective measure of scamminess Dash does not come close to been first on the list.

to be honest i dont know much about Factum most of what i know is Ethereum, Ripple, Litecoin, DASH, Dogecoin, Monero and BitShares and i read lot about them my vote was given to eth maybe i could give vote to different if i have read all information and facts about all coin from the list

[Spoetnik]

If you are really looking to find a scam, the elephant in the room is Dash.

The dev premined boatloads due to a 'mistake' and he didnt fix it because the community was cool with it

ETH premined ALL the coins..

No, ETH has mining, at least for a year or two until they switch to PoS. It seems like the premine will end up being something like 70% or so, unless PoS is delayed, in which case it will be lower.

Coins or tokens like Nxt/Factom/Ripple are 100% premined. Pretty different.

I couldn't care less if they tacked it on way later after the 2014 launch.
that just makes it even scammier.. good job pointing that out LOL

It was a scammy IPO launch.. and none of you can can deny it.

..and even the supporters of it say its not a currency.
the only thing that makes it resemble a currency is it's an IPO coin listed on Polo or 'Trex etc
and when you evaulate that it LOOKS.. precicisly like a Pyramid scheme.
NOT ..a currency.

And i came here for altcoin "currencies'

NOT "potential" app'z centralized block-chain IPO digital pyramid scheme "tokens" traded on centralized US govt compliant exchanges.

[freshman777]

@Spoetnik, which altcoin do you recommend for investing?

[illodin]

Bitbay - NOT A SCAM NOW - was a scam at the start. Maybe the largest yet of the obvious scams. Was a collaboration of exchange owners and pump groups. These people conspired to take 1000's of BTC and also dump all of their bay on the markets to deliberately destroy the coin and the investors funds. Most people left the project with a bad taste. How the original scammers are not in jail I have no idea. The people remaining and working on the project are honest and hardworking with the peanuts they had left after the criminals turned it over.

Apparently the original scammers are at least under investigation: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1354220.msg14041911#msg14041911

[smooth]

If you are really looking to find a scam, the elephant in the room is Dash.

The dev premined boatloads due to a 'mistake' and he didnt fix it because the community was cool with it

ETH premined ALL the coins..

No, ETH has mining, at least for a year or two until they switch to PoS. It seems like the premine will end up being something like 70% or so, unless PoS is delayed, in which case it will be lower.

Coins or tokens like Nxt/Factom/Ripple are 100% premined. Pretty different.

I couldn't care less if they tacked it on way later after the 2014 launch.

It wasn't tacked on, it was clearly stated in the original ICO that there was going to be mining starting from the launch, but that it could be reduced or eliminated later with a switch to PoS.

[schlonged]

I see your point smooth, so DASH is the only crypto on the list to "find" unaccounted for shares post IPO and keep them instead of burning them?

I have no idea

If that is the case, then this type of behavior is truly scam worthy.

If others did do it, that makes it not a scam?

A "scam" is a lie or misreprentation. A prime example of which is:

"Paycoins can be redeemed for $10 each"

which of course is a false statement

Yes that is form of "scam", and that is one example of a lie or misrepresentation. Other examples would be stating that the coin will "definitely not" be launched in a few hours (and then ambush launching it, with millions of extra coins distributed "by accident" almost immediately), or claiming to be working on it as a "hobby" when you have simultaneously been recruiting behind the scenes to launch a coin as a "for-profit startup".

It takes stupidity to a whole new level for a Dash supporter to create a poll like this not realizing that Dash is one of the most infamous instamine scams and will surely be highly voted as such (even if I don't agree it is the "biggest" or "worst" scam necessarily).

Thanks again smooth, I'm new to crypto, and trying to cut through all the scam accusations, and have narrowed my initial scope to the best of breed top 10 on coinmarketcap, and can agree with you that a court would find Evan guilty for lying to the public if this was an SEC case.  

The one question I have for you is this:

Since this information came to light, then it should be "priced in" as they say on Wall Street.  Meaning that, as long as it is physically impossible for Evan to magically find some new coins, then the market has accepted what Evan did, and it reflects in the current price.  

However, if it is indeed possible for Evan to sell shares on the open market "naked" (that either don't exist, or are instantly added to the blockchain in the future without anyone knowing about this possibility beforehand), then there could come a point in the future where Evan could indeed crash the share price simply by "finding" some new shares or selling some shares on the open market that nobody knew he had access to.

From what I understand, DASH has anonymity features that may make knowing this potential for future scam impossible?

Sorry for the long winded reply, but I guess, that is 2 questions.  

To summarize:

If it is impossible for Evan to steal (scam) shares in the future (like he essentially did in the past), then there can be no future scams, and this stock is accurately priced by the free market, however, if there is indeed a chance that Evan could steal shares again in the future, then, this coin has true potential for further scamming, and I wouldn't touch it with Hillary's dick.

thanks in advance

All I know about DASH is what this smoking hot chick named Amanda said about it being a hybrid between a hashocracy and a meritocracy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQGlcLFhwE0

So I am now wondering if I scratch DASH off my list, then what other coins follow a similar "hybrid" model like the one Amanda describes in her weekly column?

[rocketron]

I searched your other posts and you said and I quote

"The rise in Ethereum has in my opinion as much to do with Bitcoin's problems than with Ethereum itself. The market is looking for an alternative to Bitcoin. People are looking for alternatives that do not have "the problem" https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1388381.0. Ehtereum is not an alternative to Bitcoin, simply because it is designed to do something else entirely. It is Ethereum 1.0 not Bitcoin 2.0. Monero on the other hand does not have "the problem" and is designed from the ground up  as a possible replacement for Bitcoin, so it could be called a true Bitcoin 2.0 coin. The market of course will have the final say."

You  recognize Ethereum as  a Bitcoin 2.0 coin due to its very different use cimpared to Bitcoin.

So are you not contradicting yourself by calling Ethereum a complete scam ? 

I do not see Ethereum as a scam,  my reasons are its a totally new blockchain technology and its purpose is different than bitcoin. Its the first coin of type and therefore it shouldnt be even classed as an alt-coin. An alt-coin is a fork of bitcoin technology.

No one knows the ultimate outcome of Ethereum, it could be a huge success or a complete failure, I personally hold some Ethereum and Bitcoin for the long term prospects, I never held any altcoins other than Bitcoin but since I see Ethereum as a different beast I will hold some of it.

Now, if we were voting on biggest scam, the poll would be correct with dash in the lead.

Biggest would be Ethereum. Dash is a minnow compared to the ETH.

I agree and have voted accordingly.

[BTCLovingDude]

i don't totally like ETH but i wouldn't go as far as calling it scam. there are a lot of other coins out there that are scaming people.

ETH is just an altcoin with a lot of hype, there is nothing extraordinary about it, it has some shiny features and it was pumped at a good time (when bitcoin has some troubles with block size and attacks and FUDs)