[ANN] Lykke - Trade Bitcoin, Ethereum, FX and Digital Assets

[tempus]

Thank god. Someone with sense. Bitcoin is certiantly not jesus. Is grandma using bitcoin, is the average forex trader or swing trader using bitcoin, the soccer mom? Nope.

Bitcoin has its use. So did the Ford model T

I also have some doubts if Bitcoin will stay on top. But I have no doubts, that Cryptocurrencies will play a huge role and even if it's not that obvious yet: It will most likely be a threat for local fiat-currencies, simply because assets on the blockchain will give choice. And with choice also comes self-responsibility. I believe that people will use portfolios instead of single currencies in future. Bitcoin can be included but also company shares of software licenses - pretty much everything.

The interesting part is: That's not only about a technical change. It will have huge impact on society, at least over some time, since self-responsibility will be a much more important requirement than it seems to be now. A guy with a portfolio with 10 or more different assets needs to handle more informations and to think more to adjust his values smart than somebody with a bank-account for Dollar or Euro or whatever. And while the focus of the Crypto-space is still very much about the technical side, about the question how to make it possible for average people to use Cryptocurrencies easy and safe, the question how to get and handle informations to become really self-responsible will be much more interesting.

And Lykke - It's maybe not that obvious/visible yet, but this project will be a great school, a very educational project for everybody who will use it seriously instead of using it out of short-term-greed and like a casino. But, that's also a choice ;-)

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[Murat]

hello

lykke is added to icoaltcoin.com

follow us on twitter @icoaltcoin

Thank you

[SpacemanOne]

The interesting part is: That's not only about a technical change. It will have huge impact on society, at least over some time, since self-responsibility will be a much more important requirement than it seems to be now. A guy with a portfolio with 10 or more different assets needs to handle more informations and to think more to adjust his values smart than somebody with a bank-account for Dollar or Euro or whatever. And while the focus of the Crypto-space is still very much about the technical side, about the question how to make it possible for average people to use Cryptocurrencies easy and safe, the question how to get and handle informations to become really self-responsible will be much more interesting.

And Lykke - It's maybe not that obvious/visible yet, but this project will be a great school, a very educational project for everybody who will use it seriously instead of using it out of short-term-greed and like a casino. But, that's also a choice ;-)

If a stable and decentralized (at least partially) ctyptocurrency appears with a good market cap and liquidity it can be a huge incentive for a wider crypto currencies adoption and use in the traditional economy.

[franc0]

You compare ripple vs lykke. What about the similarity between bitshares and lykke?

Bitshares is a trading platform too, completely decentralized. In bitshares you can create any asset you want, BitUSD, bitEUR, BITgold, bitAppleshare, bit whatever you can think of. The only problem with bitshares is the low liquidity but that may change soon, the chart of bitshares is getting tight, I expect a bitshares pump. If bitshares suddenly becomes very liquid, what it will be of lykke?

I can't say much about Bitshares because I only know very basic things about the project. Reason is mostly the price itself. I've seen it rising in 2014 when I was pretty new to all this (before I was focused only on Bitcoin) but since that time it seemed only to go down and it's superficial of course but I always assumed a serious reason for the downfall and the lack of adoption.

I really like the DPOS-concept but otherwise I'm not so sure if it's effective or if it's maybe too complex. What I wonder about is: If it would be something like the "best Algo", why is it not used by many others like Ethereum? I know that there are projects with similar design but still not many.

But either way it's different to Lykke. Bitshares is fully decentralized as far as I know. That has advantages of course but also some disadvantages. Lykke has decentralized settlement and a central matching engine to combine the best of both. It ensures direct ownership but also that everything is possible what is possible on high-speed exchanges. And Lykke will be much more professional than Crypto-exchanges as we know them - most likely more like Oanda.

I don't know much about Bitshares either but the problem it's very simple, I think they don't have fiat gateways/payments. Lykke being a full fledge company and located in Switzerland aims to bring all people on board with a simple KYC approach. Bitshares seems to be for crypto nerds only, as many of these projects and we are scattered around many sites and coins. Most crypto fans think it's so easy to have BTC or to even have access to BTC, why would you need to buy BTC to then buy other assets? You are just losing money, people just don't get it but that how most of these projects work. So fiat gateways are the top priority here, however that's very hard to achieve, many promise they can pull it off, like Waves for example, which could also be compared and Ripple was eventually considered to be a digital marketplace like this. If you check Gatehub they offer some assets and some gateways.  

Yes, I believe the problem is: If there is a totally decentralized exchange, that completely runs over the blockchain, it may be harder to get the license it would need to connect with banks. And banks are needed when it's about Fiat, since tokens on the blockchain only represent Fiat that is stored on bank-accounts. But I'm only guessing here. In general I believe it will come as well - fully decentralized exchanges with Fiat-access. But they won't be as fast as Lykke.

 
I think what mostly separates Lykke from this is that it's an hybrid of centralized and decentralized approaches as tempus said, so far it works flawlessly and it is very intuitive, these two things may seem irrelevant for the average crypto user but they may be the most important aspects for blockchain companies to make it and be successful. I also see the comparison with Factom tempus mentioned, the project itself isn't that much complicated, I'm sure an engineer or very experienced dev can implement the op_return option and register data for a company in either Ethereum or Bitcoin blockchain. But Factom, similar to Lykke are actually aiming to create a product they can use and consume, make a bridge to the old ways, guiding old industries and business. This is similar to the old Apple debate about Wozniak and Jobs, the only way to bring technology to the average consumer is to make it friendlier, easier, fun to use. Most engineers and developers live in their own little world and are just waiting for people to discover and improve the by tech themselves.

The problem I see so far with Lykke in this early stage is that many people won't use an app for trading, so a desktop/web version could be the killer app here (I know it's coming soon). If they add more assets and options with time (I know they will) I'll definitely move most of my trading to them in a second.

Very true what you say about the App! My impression really is that people who download and use it like it, and recognize how great it's designed (great example for useful-design) but also: Many who know the project but not much about it seem to think of Lykke as "nice App" or even just "Smartphone-Wallet-Provider" while missing the point about what Lykke will be about and what it will make possible.

But, like you say: Desktob/Web-Version could become a killer App not only because many will find it more practical, but also because of the more psychological effect. It will make visible what this is about.

And that in combination with Ethereum-implementation, US-regulation, some good news from the business-front, first steps into Payment and Debit Card - won't be easy to ignore Lykke. ;-)

Why you need lykke or bitshares to connect with banks? Bitcoin is already connected to banks, you can trade bitshares in their exchange (BITusd/BITeur for example), then whatever you traded and profit there exchange it to bitcoin and sell your bitcoins for your national currency in your local or national bitcoin exchange. SO why withdraw USD from lykke exchange if you can withdraw BTC and then you sell your btc in your national bitcoin exchange. Lykke will take days to complete the withdraw to my bank as is a International transfer, while selling my bitcoin in my national exchange will deposit the $ to my bank account the same day.

Maybe you should open your eyes and understand that BTC is hardly known to the average user, it's worthless as a payment method (and it's getting pretty expensive too) since you'll be exposed to huge volatility. A currency needs to be stable, that's the bottomline, the dream that many have of BTC taking over the world could happen because of its blockchain and revolutionary tech, that what's valuable about it. But paying with BTC is the equivalent as paying with Amazon shares or gold, it just doesn't make sense. No company or average individual will adopt bitcoin for his daily business knowing that tomorrow it could be worth half because some exchange got hacked on the other side of the world, that's just the reality. Bitcoin will never be stable enough no matter the price, the same goes with any S/P 500 company so we agree it will eventually continue to grow but who knows right?

This may come as a surprise but national currencies will continue to exist, people will still use credit card companies, banks and fiat money, no fear mongering is strong enough to change this, the world is not going to end, Bitcoin is not Jesus. However using blockchain technology as settlement a lot of delays will be cut from days and weeks to seconds, same goes with expenses.

Lykke will give us the option to use whatever you want to trade, bitcoin, apple shares, lykke coins, mexican pesos, euros, etc. And Lykke can kill the competition (FX/CDF/ETF Trading exchanges for example) around the world by taking advantage of using a system that it's much more efficient.

Maybe you are the one that should open eyes, Bitcoin is worldwide known and worldwide accepted. Is not worthless as a payment method at all, taxis, restaurants, etc are accepting bitcoin everyday and the list is growing, doesn't seems like a worthless method for them, as they exchange to fiat right away, they don't have to worry about bitcoin volatility unless they want to hold btc. Now in case you want to exchange 1000's of dollars to btc and send it to your exchange, just make sure you are doing that when bitcoin is not downtrending, 90% of the time since 2015-08 is in a uptrend. I know that the avarage user is not checking charts like i do, oh wait yes they do! lykke is a trading platform right? they are traders, they should be checking charts. I've done it before, i've exchange 1000's of dollars to bitcoin and back to fiat, just so i can move it from one place to another, it takes 20 minutes to do that, now if in those minutes bitcoins drops, then that's really bad luck. But if anyone knows what is doing that shouldn't happen. And that deserves a QFT.

[tempus]

hello

lykke is added to icoaltcoin.com

follow us on twitter @icoaltcoin

Thank you

Thanks a lot!

[tempus]

The interesting part is: That's not only about a technical change. It will have huge impact on society, at least over some time, since self-responsibility will be a much more important requirement than it seems to be now. A guy with a portfolio with 10 or more different assets needs to handle more informations and to think more to adjust his values smart than somebody with a bank-account for Dollar or Euro or whatever. And while the focus of the Crypto-space is still very much about the technical side, about the question how to make it possible for average people to use Cryptocurrencies easy and safe, the question how to get and handle informations to become really self-responsible will be much more interesting.

And Lykke - It's maybe not that obvious/visible yet, but this project will be a great school, a very educational project for everybody who will use it seriously instead of using it out of short-term-greed and like a casino. But, that's also a choice ;-)

If a stable and decentralized (at least partially) ctyptocurrency appears with a good market cap and liquidity it can be a huge incentive for a wider crypto currencies adoption and use in the traditional economy.

Right! And I believe that will come. And maybe it will even be Bitcoin. But of course, first it needs to scale. With higher adoption, more professional markets, more acceptance of businesses etc. it's also likely that the volatility would decrease. If Bitcoin shouldn't scale on the other hand, it's likely in my opinion, that there will be another currency that will take over. But I'm speaking of years not any time soon.

What also can be expected is that states will issue currencies on the blockchain. But that's nothing I personally would feel to good with since it's predictable that it would also be used to track money - and people. And most likely it would be like Fiat on the Blockchain --> centralized decisions about the money-supply.

Hopefully there will also be a really good untraceable currency as "Cash-represantation" then. Maybe Monero or Zcash or something even more advanced. But in that case it's predictable that the media will do it's best to talk about drugs and terrorism and money-laundering - like it was and is still done with Bitcoin.

[_nur]

Kind of funny is, that some are critical that the supply is not already more distributed and others are critical about it when there is more on the free market. ;-)

There's nothing funny about being diluted out of an investment.

First of all: That are no new issued shares! They already exist.

But please tell me what would be the best-case-scenario in your opinion.

Why I ask is this:

Lykke is a really huge project and a company which employs about 30 people (I'm not even sure about the exact number). And we are not talking about Script-Kiddies here or Crypto-Guys like me but about people with huge expertise in a lot of different areas (the tech, finance, risk management, etc.). Additionally: Lykke has costs because the goal is to get licenses everywhere and that's not cheap.

That said: Out of your own perspective as a shareholder it would not only be paradox but under the line simply not rational, if you would want them to stop all that because no new shares should reach the market.

But, my question was serious. I would like to know what you (or others) believe would be best.

It should be considered that this is no "shitcoin" or "take-the-ICO-Money-and-run-Project" or one of those projects that would be good if they wouldn't be so damn unprofessional on the business side.

you know I came to the understanding of the so call "ultimate goal" of a blockchain or trustless system is to de-commoditized trust... I know it's like fiction

but that my friend is what this whole experiment this industry is about

no more a need to trust X/institution/authority

I think this video might interest you

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygZWhQXZtl4

so... yeah.. you know... why are we all here for?

the future right?

just saying

[Johnny00]

I also discovered whaleclub. Anyone try that and how does that compare. You can short in whaleclub and has more leverage. Seems more advanced

[xland86]

This project have any bounty program?

[tempus]

Kind of funny is, that some are critical that the supply is not already more distributed and others are critical about it when there is more on the free market. ;-)

There's nothing funny about being diluted out of an investment.

First of all: That are no new issued shares! They already exist.

But please tell me what would be the best-case-scenario in your opinion.

Why I ask is this:

Lykke is a really huge project and a company which employs about 30 people (I'm not even sure about the exact number). And we are not talking about Script-Kiddies here or Crypto-Guys like me but about people with huge expertise in a lot of different areas (the tech, finance, risk management, etc.). Additionally: Lykke has costs because the goal is to get licenses everywhere and that's not cheap.

That said: Out of your own perspective as a shareholder it would not only be paradox but under the line simply not rational, if you would want them to stop all that because no new shares should reach the market.

But, my question was serious. I would like to know what you (or others) believe would be best.

It should be considered that this is no "shitcoin" or "take-the-ICO-Money-and-run-Project" or one of those projects that would be good if they wouldn't be so damn unprofessional on the business side.

you know I came to the understanding of the so call "ultimate goal" of a blockchain or trustless system is to de-commoditized trust... I know it's like fiction

but that my friend is what this whole experiment this industry is about

no more a need to trust X/institution/authority

I think this video might interest you

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygZWhQXZtl4

so... yeah.. you know... why are we all here for?

the future right?

just saying

Yes, very good explanation about blockchain and what it makes possible!

I even believe that like nobody (or nearly nobody) could know in the early 90's how to Internet would develop, we can't predict now what the blockchain-technology will make possible in future and when it's about 10 years or 20 or even 50 years. But I really have no doubt that it will have huge impact and change a lot. That's also the Nr. 1 reason why I don't understand so called Bitcoin-maximalists. Bitcoin as a blockchain is great and Bitcoin as the "payment-Application" on the Blockchain is great as well. But of course there will be a lot of progress not only in Bitcoin. I believe the future will be about many blockchains and that it's good to have choice and that "connection + competition" is and will be very healthy.

[tempus]

I also discovered whaleclub. Anyone try that and how does that compare. You can short in whaleclub and has more leverage. Seems more advanced

I don't know much about it. But it seems to be a centralized exchange right? And one advantage of Lykke already is advanced security because of the more of decentralization.

Regarding margin trading: It will be available on Lykke soon. And much more to come.

I know, I say it quiet often but the truth needs to be repeated: Lykke will impress and surprise!

P.S.: In some months I'll quote my own predictions with a comment in german:
"Ich habs Euch doch gesagt!" ;-)

[tempus]

This project have any bounty program?

I'm not sure yet. I'll ask tomorrow and we'll see if something like that is planned.

[Alao]

Loops line there is a new trading asset in the wallet. What is HCP?

[tempus]

Loops line there is a new trading asset in the wallet. What is HCP?

There are even two new assets! The 1-year-forward-LKK is also in the App now (but only IOS until now) and can be purchased directly.
Press release to HCP should be released today.

[maknyos]

follow thread about bounty..

[SpacemanOne]

@tempus

Can you post the LKK distribution in details?
I.e. how many LKK total (and if there will be new LKK issued) and who owns how many LKK.

[mtnsaa]

Everytime I wish to sell some BTC because it's peaking I buy some LKK and accumulate since it's very stable in fiat, it's like a stable coin for now and I'm pretty sure it won't drop that further. When BTC dumps a lot most alts eventually rally but they never keep their fiat value, they only regain it after BTC recovers somehow, they only rally in terms of BTC. For example if BTC dumped hard right now, ETH would definitely rally in terms of BTC price but in fiat I'm sure it would be close to $10-11 rather than above $12 like it is now.

Lykke I think it's one of the few projects that it's decoupled from BTC price in a sense. I've seen some signs that ETH will do the same eventually.

[tempus]

@tempus

Can you post the LKK distribution in details?
I.e. how many LKK total (and if there will be new LKK issued) and who owns how many LKK.

Yes, sure! The most detailed informations are here to find:

1) Information Brochure for Coinholders February 2017
https://forward.lykke.com/files/Lykke_Corp_Offering_Memorandum.pdf

2) About the 1yLKK-forward
https://forward.lykke.com/files/Fact_sheet_2017.pdf


Short overview in my words:

The total supply of Lykke Coins is: 1,285,690,000 LKK

100 Lykke Coins represent 1 share of the company: 12,856,900 shares

The majority of shares is held by the company, it's founders, angel Investors and the team.

Detailed Overview of Coinholders: https://www.coinprism.info/asset/AXkedGbAH1XGDpAypVzA5eyjegX4FaCnvM/owners

Sold during ICO in September-October 2016: 30,000,000 LKK - 300,000 shares.


The current crowdfunding is a 1-year-LKK-forward-contract and about 50,000,000 LKK - 500,000 shares.


That means in my own words: An Investor has the advantage to buy into the 1yLKK (for 0.04 CHF) below the LKK-market-price, but after activating the contract (pulling the 365-day-trigger) it would be locked for 1 year until he gets 1 LKK for each 1yLKK.

But: After the crowdfunding, an Investor is free to decide to trade the 1yLKK as a contract, or to pull the 365-day-trigger. It's also his choice to do that whenever he wants - if. The official explanation can be found in the linke above (2 - Fact Sheet).


For the available supply on the market that means: It first stays at 30,000,000 LKK but increases after 1 year - dependent on how much will be sold during this Crowdfunding and how many of the Investors will activate the 1yLKK and when they will decide to do that. It won't be all at once.  


Because of your question if more LKK will be issued: Sergey Ivliev said this on telegram in January:

"there is no plans to increase number of shares of Lykke Corp, hence no "inflation" for Lykke coins"

 
With other words: That doesn't mean that the company won't sell more shares in future. But it will be done carefully and the total amount won't increase.

[1524mash]

So I've bought months ago during the ICO, now another ico for 20% discount? what's this scam? Why should I buy now lower than months ago with nothing tradable yet?

[mtnsaa]

So I've bought months ago during the ICO, now another ico for 20% discount? what's this scam? Why should I buy now lower than months ago with nothing tradable yet?

It's not the same offer, yes it has a 20% discount but you can't touch your shares for an year, I'm sure this is to avoid speculation, short term trading and dumping. I'm buying from the market at a "premium" price close to $0.05 instead of investing this way, plus I don't have the fiat available at the moment. This gives me the option to play the market since I think Lykke will have a very good 2017 and even if I'm seeing it as a long term investment there could be opportunities to take some profits.