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TheSwede75
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July 19, 2013, 02:50:19 PM |
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Speculation time: The next announcement will be "we are live and hashing. Bringing on Miners 24/7. Expect first dividend within a week". Share price will rocket past old 0.50 record in a single day and everyone will rejoice  Or at least so I hope since I decided not to sell the shares I own after all. |
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"In a nutshell, the network works like a distributed
timestamp server, stamping the first transaction to spend a coin. It
takes advantage of the nature of information being easy to spread but
hard to stifle." -- Satoshi
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Eric Muyser
Full Member
 Offline
Activity: 224
Merit: 100
You can't kill math.
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July 19, 2013, 03:34:30 PM |
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@EricMuyser | EricMuyser.com | OTC - "Defeat is a state of mind; no one is ever defeated until defeat has been accepted as a reality" - Bruce Lee
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TheSwede75
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July 19, 2013, 07:17:40 PM |
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I have to say that more info regarding 100TH direct involvement in development, investments in Bitfury tech and design etc. would be exceptionally interesting to I believe all investors. Future upgrade plans, hardware sales etc. is something that I think could really take 100TH to the "next level".
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superduh
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July 19, 2013, 07:45:22 PM |
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I have to say that more info regarding 100TH direct involvement in development, investments in Bitfury tech and design etc. would be exceptionally interesting to I believe all investors. Future upgrade plans, hardware sales etc. is something that I think could really take 100TH to the "next level".
they were very clear that this is just a one off- only 100th and that's it. you don't get anything reinvested back to earn you anything more. that will likely be a separate offering. this is purely a "bond". no reinvestment or any tech ip etc |
ok
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TheSwede75
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July 19, 2013, 08:55:51 PM |
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I have to say that more info regarding 100TH direct involvement in development, investments in Bitfury tech and design etc. would be exceptionally interesting to I believe all investors. Future upgrade plans, hardware sales etc. is something that I think could really take 100TH to the "next level".
they were very clear that this is just a one off- only 100th and that's it. you don't get anything reinvested back to earn you anything more. that will likely be a separate offering. this is purely a "bond". no reinvestment or any tech ip etc Which is 100% fine, but I would still like to hear it from the founders. |
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kaerf
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July 19, 2013, 10:19:10 PM |
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I have to say that more info regarding 100TH direct involvement in development, investments in Bitfury tech and design etc. would be exceptionally interesting to I believe all investors. Future upgrade plans, hardware sales etc. is something that I think could really take 100TH to the "next level".
they were very clear that this is just a one off- only 100th and that's it. you don't get anything reinvested back to earn you anything more. that will likely be a separate offering. this is purely a "bond". no reinvestment or any tech ip etc Which is 100% fine, but I would still like to hear it from the founders. Heh, I was trying to convince Tytus to at least think about converting 100TH into an offering (or creating a new offering) similar to the ASICMINER model. At the moment, he is solely focused on deploying the mine, but he suggested he might (absolutely no guarantee here) be open to discussing ideas after deployment. Perhaps we should list the pros and cons of a new/converted offering. Personally, if I were in Tytus' shoes I'd have a few questions. It seems like Tytus is well funded, so what reasons would Tytus et al have for converting to/creating something like AM if he has to deal with a bunch of rowdy forum trolls? Pros: Selling shares can provide instant capital (greater than existing funding??) to expand existing operations and further advanced R&D at a faster rate. -Existing operations would include: hardware sales, mining, development of Picostocks ... -With the increased capital it might be feasible to jump to 28nm/22nm more quickly. Faster wealth generation (no need to wait for mining income or sales) ... Cons: Maintenance/overhead needed to appease new shareholders -More accountability -More trolls  ... To me, the greatest benefit from "going public" would be the ability to do things faster with less capital risk -- the bitcoin hardware space is all about who can delivery first. Even though ASICMINER has a paper valuation of ~1.8M BTC, Bitfountain themselves have not sold shares at the current market price, so their income is primarily from mining and hardware sales...probably somewhere around ~12K BTC total (rough guess). If Tytus offers a new security backed by real hashing power (100TH), it could conceivably fetch...what 50% of AM's market cap (900K BTC)? Selling only 50% of the shares would net 450K (~$45M USD) while still retaining the remaining 50%. Once 100TH comes online, I suspect there will be a dip in AM share prices and they'll be looking for a place to put that BTC. This lets Tytus and Bitfury leapfrog ASICMINER, Avalon, and BFL. |
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MPOE-PR
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July 19, 2013, 11:51:15 PM |
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Vulgarity is the weapon of the mediocre.
Depends. "Vulgarity" done poorly is the common behavior of the mediocre. Vulgarity done well is the very substance of perfection, literary and intellectual. That you don't know this betrays a sore lack of education. That aside, unwarranted stereotypy is the universal stigma of the mentally stunted. |
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TheSwede75
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July 20, 2013, 01:55:05 PM |
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I have to say that more info regarding 100TH direct involvement in development, investments in Bitfury tech and design etc. would be exceptionally interesting to I believe all investors. Future upgrade plans, hardware sales etc. is something that I think could really take 100TH to the "next level".
they were very clear that this is just a one off- only 100th and that's it. you don't get anything reinvested back to earn you anything more. that will likely be a separate offering. this is purely a "bond". no reinvestment or any tech ip etc Which is 100% fine, but I would still like to hear it from the founders. Heh, I was trying to convince Tytus to at least think about converting 100TH into an offering (or creating a new offering) similar to the ASICMINER model. At the moment, he is solely focused on deploying the mine, but he suggested he might (absolutely no guarantee here) be open to discussing ideas after deployment. Perhaps we should list the pros and cons of a new/converted offering. Personally, if I were in Tytus' shoes I'd have a few questions. It seems like Tytus is well funded, so what reasons would Tytus et al have for converting to/creating something like AM if he has to deal with a bunch of rowdy forum trolls? Pros: Selling shares can provide instant capital (greater than existing funding??) to expand existing operations and further advanced R&D at a faster rate. -Existing operations would include: hardware sales, mining, development of Picostocks ... -With the increased capital it might be feasible to jump to 28nm/22nm more quickly. Faster wealth generation (no need to wait for mining income or sales) ... Cons: Maintenance/overhead needed to appease new shareholders -More accountability -More trolls ... To me, the greatest benefit from "going public" would be the ability to do things faster with less capital risk -- the bitcoin hardware space is all about who can delivery first. Even though ASICMINER has a paper valuation of ~1.8M BTC, Bitfountain themselves have not sold shares at the current market price, so their income is primarily from mining and hardware sales...probably somewhere around ~12K BTC total (rough guess). If Tytus offers a new security backed by real hashing power (100TH), it could conceivably fetch...what 50% of AM's market cap (900K BTC)? Selling only 50% of the shares would net 450K (~$45M USD) while still retaining the remaining 50%. Once 100TH comes online, I suspect there will be a dip in AM share prices and they'll be looking for a place to put that BTC. This lets Tytus and Bitfury leapfrog ASICMINER, Avalon, and BFL. I think the current model honestly wouldn't need much alteration or even capital to change only slightly into a more diverse investment. Say that Titus just takes a vote on a retention and growth fund of for example 25% of mining income. Using 25% of revenue (leaving 75TH for dividends) and reinvesting this into a still early batch of the custom miners for sale on bitcointalk. This would, just like ASICMINER lay the groundwork for using accelerating dividends (from 25% reinvestment fund and hardware sales) to further develop miners, order chips and cycle the sales again, just like ASICMINER has done with blades and USB miners. In my view, a 100TH operation that ONLY mines and pays 100% dividend, can and probably will be an amazing investment, but it IS a finite one. Meaning that when the miners become non-profitable to run (if ever, due to transaction cost income etc) the investment closes down. Wile the same investment with a reinvestment fund and hardware sales could be sustainable "forever" under the right management (see. ASICMINER business model). |
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superduh
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July 20, 2013, 04:40:30 PM |
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He's got enough btc or $ now to not need investors for long term company. Why would he want to give up equity at this stage of progress. It's just like asking tytus to work more, get paid less to.give others more. Maybe a distant possibility
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ok
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kaerf
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July 20, 2013, 05:56:45 PM |
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He's got enough btc or $ now to not need investors for long term company. Why would he want to give up equity at this stage of progress. It's just like asking tytus to work more, get paid less to.give others more. Maybe a distant possibility
True, they have (or will have) plenty of coin after their hardware sales and mining operation starts. It really depends on what their goal is...cash out and relax or spend time and energy into becoming the leading hardware player in the space. Cashing out and relaxing does have its appeal  However, there is so much potential for fast growth by selling shares. I think the current model honestly wouldn't need much alteration or even capital to change only slightly into a more diverse investment. Say that Titus just takes a vote on a retention and growth fund of for example 25% of mining income.
Using 25% of revenue (leaving 75TH for dividends) and reinvesting this into a still early batch of the custom miners for sale on bitcointalk. This would, just like ASICMINER lay the groundwork for using accelerating dividends (from 25% reinvestment fund and hardware sales) to further develop miners, order chips and cycle the sales again, just like ASICMINER has done with blades and USB miners.
In my view, a 100TH operation that ONLY mines and pays 100% dividend, can and probably will be an amazing investment, but it IS a finite one. Meaning that when the miners become non-profitable to run (if ever, due to transaction cost income etc) the investment closes down. Wile the same investment with a reinvestment fund and hardware sales could be sustainable "forever" under the right management (see. ASICMINER business model).
This would be one option, but I think it puts this operation behind others like AM, Avalon, and BFL. Initially, I think it makes much more sense to sell shares to jump start operations instead of waiting for mining revenue to come in. For example, ASICMINER has been mining for months, but their growth is limited by the rate at which they mine and sell hardware (since they have not sold shares at current market prices). As more and more competition comes into the market it gets harder and harder to maintain the same percentage of hashing power. I've no idea what AM has actually netted, but I think it's probably less than $12-20M USD in value. In terms of converting/modifying 100TH, I think getting more ideas (like yours) from the community would help flush out what the best options are. Obviously, one option would be to dilute existing shares and offer more shares for sale at a higher price based on modification terms (reinvestment/perpetual growth). Another option might be for the top X shareholders to agree to sell Y % of their holdings in exchange for modification terms. (Really, 100TH is controlled by the top 5 shareholders controlling 92.6%, so it's up to them) I'm not well versed in the intricacies of the securities world, so I'm not even aware of what kind of possibilities there are when it comes to modifying a security like we're discussing. Other ideas? |
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TheSwede75
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July 20, 2013, 06:45:20 PM |
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He's got enough btc or $ now to not need investors for long term company. Why would he want to give up equity at this stage of progress. It's just like asking tytus to work more, get paid less to.give others more. Maybe a distant possibility
Considering He is still a large owner, he has everything to gain by making 100TH as successful as possible. |
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TheSwede75
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July 20, 2013, 06:49:02 PM |
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He's got enough btc or $ now to not need investors for long term company. Why would he want to give up equity at this stage of progress. It's just like asking tytus to work more, get paid less to.give others more. Maybe a distant possibility
True, they have (or will have) plenty of coin after their hardware sales and mining operation starts. It really depends on what their goal is...cash out and relax or spend time and energy into becoming the leading hardware player in the space. Cashing out and relaxing does have its appeal However, there is so much potential for fast growth by selling shares. I think the current model honestly wouldn't need much alteration or even capital to change only slightly into a more diverse investment. Say that Titus just takes a vote on a retention and growth fund of for example 25% of mining income.
Using 25% of revenue (leaving 75TH for dividends) and reinvesting this into a still early batch of the custom miners for sale on bitcointalk. This would, just like ASICMINER lay the groundwork for using accelerating dividends (from 25% reinvestment fund and hardware sales) to further develop miners, order chips and cycle the sales again, just like ASICMINER has done with blades and USB miners.
In my view, a 100TH operation that ONLY mines and pays 100% dividend, can and probably will be an amazing investment, but it IS a finite one. Meaning that when the miners become non-profitable to run (if ever, due to transaction cost income etc) the investment closes down. Wile the same investment with a reinvestment fund and hardware sales could be sustainable "forever" under the right management (see. ASICMINER business model).
This would be one option, but I think it puts this operation behind others like AM, Avalon, and BFL. Initially, I think it makes much more sense to sell shares to jump start operations instead of waiting for mining revenue to come in. For example, ASICMINER has been mining for months, but their growth is limited by the rate at which they mine and sell hardware (since they have not sold shares at current market prices). As more and more competition comes into the market it gets harder and harder to maintain the same percentage of hashing power. I've no idea what AM has actually netted, but I think it's probably less than $12-20M USD in value. In terms of converting/modifying 100TH, I think getting more ideas (like yours) from the community would help flush out what the best options are. Obviously, one option would be to dilute existing shares and offer more shares for sale at a higher price based on modification terms (reinvestment/perpetual growth). Another option might be for the top X shareholders to agree to sell Y % of their holdings in exchange for modification terms. (Really, 100TH is controlled by the top 5 shareholders controlling 92.6%, so it's up to them) I'm not well versed in the intricacies of the securities world, so I'm not even aware of what kind of possibilities there are when it comes to modifying a security like we're discussing. Other ideas? I would probably argue that if the majority owners believe in the long term value, using mining income to fund development is more attractive then diluting share holder value. Of course either could be true. |
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joris
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July 21, 2013, 07:30:27 AM |
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When 100th is fully deployed and operational, PicoStocks could just IPO the 1ph mine as a new project.
This makes a lot more sense from a commercial and managerial point of view, though the price to invest will probably be relatively higher than last January for the 100th mine. Trustworthiness has a price.
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;-)
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grimholt
Member
Offline
Activity: 104
Merit: 10
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July 22, 2013, 11:25:06 AM |
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The lack of response has now made me dump all my holdings and spend my BTC elsewhere. Silence is usually not a good sign, and I'm afraid that we have some bad news coming up (because really, how hard is it to report good news?).
Keep in mind though, that this is just my 2 delusional cents, and I could be very wrong. For all the current shareholders I really hope I am wrong, and that tytus and the rest of the 100TH team deliver what they've been promising within a decent time frame.
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gyverlb
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July 22, 2013, 11:45:07 AM |
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The lack of response has now made me dump all my holdings
Surprising, I just checked if there was a buying opportunity around 0.2 but the market depth didn't move at all. Either you made the dump before my last checks or you didn't have much to sell. |
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grimholt
Member
Offline
Activity: 104
Merit: 10
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July 22, 2013, 12:35:23 PM |
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The lack of response has now made me dump all my holdings
Surprising, I just checked if there was a buying opportunity around 0.2 but the market depth didn't move at all. Either you made the dump before my last checks or you didn't have much to sell. I dumped my holdings some days ago but didn't write the post until now. |
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Andrey
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July 22, 2013, 12:38:25 PM |
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I dumped my holdings some days ago but didn't write the post until now.
Thank you, Grimholt. What sucks about 100th is that you have to wait for too long for your sell order to be fulfilled. Great people like you make the rest suffer less! |
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needsmths
Newbie
Offline
Activity: 26
Merit: 0
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July 22, 2013, 06:38:57 PM |
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Silence is usually not a good sign, and I'm afraid that we have some bad news coming up (because really, how hard is it to report good news?).
Seems like somebody knows something. Something like the difficulty is going to fall, especially after 100Th will start to mine. Have you seen the prices, people are buying shares? I just wonder how they calculate their profit ? Can someone show me calculations, especially those who buy shares for more then 0.2 bts/share - 1 btc/Ghs. |
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Dexter770221
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1029
Merit: 1000
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July 22, 2013, 06:49:34 PM |
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Why people buying ASICMINER shares @ 4.6? 95MH/s per share? When 100TH will come online it will hold 30% ofthe network. ASICMINER 10%. For some period of time 100TH will be most profitable. Even @ 0.9B/share it will deliver more profits than ASICMINER.
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Under development Modular UPGRADEABLE Miner (MUM). Looking for investors.
Changing one PCB with screwdriver and you have brand new miner in hand... Plug&Play, scalable from one module to thousands.
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furuknap
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July 22, 2013, 06:56:32 PM |
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Silence is usually not a good sign, and I'm afraid that we have some bad news coming up (because really, how hard is it to report good news?).
Seems like somebody knows something. Something like the difficulty is going to fall, especially after 100Th will start to mine. Have you seen the prices, people are buying shares? I just wonder how they calculate their profit ? Can someone show me calculations, especially those who buy shares for more then 0.2 bts/share - 1 btc/Ghs. The mine is coming online in a couple of days according to the latest update from a few weeks ago. I'm guessing people interpret silence as confirmation that everything is on track. tytus has not dumped more shares even though the current trades are above the level at which he previously allowed people to sell, so this may be interpreted as good news by the market. .b |
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