IOHK Research and Scorex ARE NOT working with Waves

[immortality]

To be clear for all, once and forever: Scorex is an open-source project

Who is IHKO/NHKO/FHKO/...? I think you understood.

[andyatcrux]

Opensource sure great, but sources should be mentioned imo (maybe it has been)...
Also information needs to be accurate on who is involved...

WAVES website states:

Q: Who are the NXT developers involved in WAVES?
A: Devs involved: JL777, Kushti, Tosch. Project leader, Coinomat at NXTforum.

Q: What programming language will be used to develop the platform?
A: Full node client will be built is Scala, on Scorex platform which Kushti and his team have been developing. Lite, end-user, client will be in JS. Also there most probably will be a full-node C++ client too.

there you have it.

OP, may we have clarification on what it is you are asserting? "on Scorex platform which Kushti and his team have been developing" is indicating in plain English that Kushti is developing the Scorex platform. Had they said "Full node client will be built is[sic?] Scala, which Kushti and his team have been developing on Scorex platform" then I could see how that would indicate that Kushti was directly involved in the development of waves. But as seen in that Q&A that is not the case. It would take poor reading comprehension to jump to another conclusion.

Throughout the Waves topic thread it has been mentioned that the "Devs involved" are just that: involved. I believe Kushti was referred to as a consultant of sorts. Just to clarify, are you saying that he is in no way lending his advice? If there are other statements made by the waves team that you can post in support of your assertions it would be appreciated.

Edit: Found some more info myself:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1387944.msg14459843#msg14459843

So it does seem as though there was a clear statement that Kushti was part of the team at some point. It would be great if he could weigh in.

[kushti]

kushti is here (writing from a some place in Russia, yes).

First, some historical points. Scorex was started in Nov, 2014 as kinda funny project. To that moment, I spent few months working for Nxt. As you may know, Nxt prevents forking with closing code not released into production yet and also by somewhat terrible licensing(since 1.5?). Anyway, it has a lot of forks, and some of them with very interesting ideas (e.g. BURST).

To have thing open to the extreme I've published Scorex under CC0(Public Domain) license, so everyone can do literally anything with the code.

Since last autumn development of Scorex is subsidized by IOHK, and since Feb I'm a Research Fellow and Scorex project director in IOHK Research.
-------

Well, Scorex(as well as papers publicly published) could be used in any project. That surely does not mean collaboration with IOHK. However, we would like to get issues on core functionality to be reported to resolve and also (and especially) pull requests.  

Me & Sasha, Charles & Sasha, and three of us had some conversations after Sasha's decision to build Waves on top of Scorex. No any collaboration has been established to the moment as a result. And that is surely up to Charles.

I do not endorse neither oppose Waves ICO. I do not have much technical details, and I'm not competent in other topics.

[sotisoti]

Thank you for clearing that up.

[ICOcountdown.com]

kushti is here (writing from a some place in Russia, yes).

First, some historical points. Scorex was started in Nov, 2014 as kinda funny project. To that moment, I spent few months working for Nxt. As you may know, Nxt prevents forking with closing code not released into production yet and also by somewhat terrible licensing(since 1.5?). Anyway, it has a lot of forks, and some of them with very interesting ideas (e.g. BURST).

To have thing open to the extreme I've published Scorex under CC0(Public Domain) license, so everyone can do literally anything with the code.

Since last autumn development of Scorex is subsidized by IOHK, and since Feb I'm a Research Fellow and Scorex project director in IOHK Research.
-------

Well, Scorex(as well as papers publicly published) could be used in any project. That surely does not mean collaboration with IOHK. However, we would like to get issues on core functionality to be reported to resolve and also (and especially) pull requests.  

Me & Sasha, Charles & Sasha, and three of us had some conversations after Sasha's decision to build Waves on top of Scorex. No any collaboration has been established to the moment as a result. And that is surely up to Charles.

I do not endorse neither oppose Waves ICO. I do not have much technical details, and I'm not competent in other topics.

Can we get some clarity why you were listed on the team page please. Also I appreciate the answers.

[instacalm]

kushti is here (writing from a some place in Russia, yes).

First, some historical points. Scorex was started in Nov, 2014 as kinda funny project. To that moment, I spent few months working for Nxt. As you may know, Nxt prevents forking with closing code not released into production yet and also by somewhat terrible licensing(since 1.5?). Anyway, it has a lot of forks, and some of them with very interesting ideas (e.g. BURST).

To have thing open to the extreme I've published Scorex under CC0(Public Domain) license, so everyone can do literally anything with the code.

Since last autumn development of Scorex is subsidized by IOHK, and since Feb I'm a Research Fellow and Scorex project director in IOHK Research.
-------

Well, Scorex(as well as papers publicly published) could be used in any project. That surely does not mean collaboration with IOHK. However, we would like to get issues on core functionality to be reported to resolve and also (and especially) pull requests.  

Me & Sasha, Charles & Sasha, and three of us had some conversations after Sasha's decision to build Waves on top of Scorex. No any collaboration has been established to the moment as a result. And that is surely up to Charles.

I do not endorse neither oppose Waves ICO. I do not have much technical details, and I'm not competent in other topics.

Thank you for the statement kushti!

[wasref]

waves just became a big fish

[Camus]

it's open-source world, man!

Right!

[Camus]

I think WAVES is a good job, the Scorex codebase is open,need anything to doubt?

[charleshoskinson]

Can we get some clarity why you were listed on the team page please. Also I appreciate the answers.

This is why I got so angry. There is no formal relationship. Waves should have not listed Alex as a team member. Alex nor I were consulted in this decision. Using someone's name or work to raise millions of dollars is a serious concern and should not be taken lightly.

Scorex isn't designed to be a full and secure cryptocurrency. It's a great platform for rapid experimentation, which is badly needed in academia and industry. In fact in the announcement of scorex, there was some text criticizing ICOs. It's one of the reasons I loved the project when I found it last year.

This is not a debate about open source. Not once has anyone said scorex cannot be used. It's an argument about iohk personnel being represented as employees or partners of another Venture for the purpose of raising millions of dollars. It is something that I cannot permit. I asked privately for it to stop and then had to escalate after the waves project continued to imply via proxies a relationship.

I assume it will stop now so I wish the project well and the best of luck.

[ICOcountdown.com]

Can we get some clarity why you were listed on the team page please. Also I appreciate the answers.

This is why I got so angry. There is no formal relationship. Waves should have not listed Alex as a team member. Alex nor I were consulted in this decision. Using someone's name or work to raise millions of dollars is a serious concern and should not be taken lightly.

Scorex isn't designed to be a full and secure cryptocurrency. It's a great platform for rapid experimentation, which is badly needed in academia and industry. In fact in the announcement of scorex, there was some text criticizing ICOs. It's one of the reasons I loved the project when I found it last year.

This is not a debate about open source. Not once has anyone said scorex cannot be used. It's an argument about iohk personnel being represented as employees or partners of another Venture for the purpose of raising millions of dollars. It is something that I cannot permit. I asked privately for it to stop and then had to escalate after the waves project continued to imply via proxies a relationship.

I assume it will stop now so I wish the project well and the best of luck.

I appreciate the response, thanks for clearing this up. It was cleary removed before the fundraiser though. This information was duly needed days/weeks ago when it came into the equation and users picked it up on the 7th April https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1387944.msg14459843#msg14459843 I am still not understanding why this valuable data was not released prior to this. I respect the value proposition of the open source development so thanks again. Sorry to disturb but the I want to really understand these categorical events.

[wasref]

question to charles why dont you join

[charleshoskinson]

I haven't been following waves closely and wasn't even aware they were about to hold an ICO until a friend sent me a link to the ICO page with Alex on it.

I knew that sasha was planning on holding an ICO, but I assumed it was months off as the project still seems to be immature from a governance and personnel standpoint. When I saw that it was imminent and there was a great degree of confusion about who was involved in it, a statement had to be issued clarifying the matter. I first gave Waves an opportunity to do it.

Instead I was called delusional and for people to Google me as if some dark secrets will be discovered. Furthermore, my statements have been met by pumping accounts saying I'm trying to extort the project or posting links about me getting pushed out of ethereum.

Alex confirmed my statements. So tell me sasha, how am I delusional? Also please tell us what you want people to look for when the Google me? Could you post a list of fact and evidence right here?

Anyone performing DD on this project should take this kind of conduct into consideration before committing. It certainty took me from the friend and love to help out camp to a cease and desist mindset.  

[BlackShibe1]

yeah, there are, like, 20 different Kushti's in crypto

Kushti Jones
Kushti Johnson
Kushti (aka killa kush) Jensen
Kushti (d' kushmeister) Jorgensen
and of course, the Kushenator

And Kushti the clown

[traumschiff]

kushti is here (writing from a some place in Russia, yes).

First, some historical points. Scorex was started in Nov, 2014 as kinda funny project. To that moment, I spent few months working for Nxt. As you may know, Nxt prevents forking with closing code not released into production yet and also by somewhat terrible licensing(since 1.5?). Anyway, it has a lot of forks, and some of them with very interesting ideas (e.g. BURST).

To have thing open to the extreme I've published Scorex under CC0(Public Domain) license, so everyone can do literally anything with the code.

Since last autumn development of Scorex is subsidized by IOHK, and since Feb I'm a Research Fellow and Scorex project director in IOHK Research.
-------

Well, Scorex(as well as papers publicly published) could be used in any project. That surely does not mean collaboration with IOHK. However, we would like to get issues on core functionality to be reported to resolve and also (and especially) pull requests.  

Me & Sasha, Charles & Sasha, and three of us had some conversations after Sasha's decision to build Waves on top of Scorex. No any collaboration has been established to the moment as a result. And that is surely up to Charles.

I do not endorse neither oppose Waves ICO. I do not have much technical details, and I'm not competent in other topics.

The thing I've read from this is that you have been advising Sascha on how to manage the project, but have no legal contract and Charles would have said no anyway. Meaning that you can not be mentioned on their website as a part of the team, but still, the way Charles stated it in the tweet and in the OP is misleading and seems to try and harm the ICO on purpose.

[prophetx]

[Porte]

which coin or asset is IOHK and Scorex  behind?

[Camus]

which coin or asset is IOHK and Scorex  behind?

I want to know too

[TPTB_need_war]

question to charles why dont you join

Can't you read between the lines that Charles is distancing himself and his company from the investment securities law implications of ICOs.

He is all for collaboration of the technology. So he won't "join" in the sense of being tied into a promotion of an ICO. He will be amiable with those who want to develop the technology around block chains.

His actions and the way he has stated it is very professional.

Please stop berating Charles.

Can we get some clarity why you were listed on the team page please. Also I appreciate the answers.

This is why I got so angry. There is no formal relationship. Waves should have not listed Alex as a team member. Alex nor I were consulted in this decision. Using someone's name or work to raise millions of dollars is a serious concern and should not be taken lightly.

Scorex isn't designed to be a full and secure cryptocurrency. It's a great platform for rapid experimentation, which is badly needed in academia and industry. In fact in the announcement of scorex, there was some text criticizing ICOs. It's one of the reasons I loved the project when I found it last year.

This is not a debate about open source. Not once has anyone said scorex cannot be used. It's an argument about iohk personnel being represented as employees or partners of another Venture for the purpose of raising millions of dollars. It is something that I cannot permit. I asked privately for it to stop and then had to escalate after the waves project continued to imply via proxies a relationship.

I assume it will stop now so I wish the project well and the best of luck.

[Come-from-Beyond]

Can't you read between the lines that Charles is distancing himself and his company from the investment securities law implications of ICOs.

Man, you should stop explaining everything as an attempt to stay away of SEC ruling. Your posts are not only racist (because imply superiority of the USA) but are also plain annoying because were repeated too many times.

In this very case Charles explained his intentions pretty clear, no need to create conspiracy theories.