IOHK Research and Scorex ARE NOT working with Waves

[TPTB_need_war]

First of all, you lost all my trust when saying, "even the filipinos agree the US is supreme"

Logically you should separate your objective research of the law from this nonsense attempt to try to frame me as a racist.

I've been living in the Philippines mostly since I was 26 years old. I will be 51 in June. I know about filipinos much better than you do. Filipinos even criticize themselves for admiring the USA too much. I tried in the past to argue to normal filipinos that the USA is really not the paradise they think it is on television.

The word 'supreme' was not my choice. It was the choice of the troll in this thread who was trying to shift the discussion to one of trying to frame me as a racist to deflect attention away from the scam Waves.

I would rather say that filipinos are envious of their countrymen who are able to migrate to the USA, because they think we have better governance and more economic opportunity. They criticize their own countrymen for refusing to follow even basic laws such as not littering, not urinating in the road, making illegal U turns in the middle of a 6 lane highway, driving the wrong direction on the highway at high speeds, and just about every way you can imagine that filipinos ignore their own laws. perhaps they learned it from 400 years of occupation by the Spanish. At least the USA built them schools and let them go independent with a minimum of fuss.

Having said that, they say the USA is lonely and they love their home and their culture. They do criticize the USA for being too liberated, too much divorce, and for losing some of the conservative family values that are so cherished by filipinos.

One thing you don't understand about filipinos and perhaps the most important fact about their culture, is that filipinos first and foremost want to have fun every day. And they love to share everything with each other, including strangers and foreigners. So they don't hate foreigners. They actually want to admire you. Even young boys will become your best friend if you play sports with them or otherwise be a true friend and guiding hand (but the fucking pedophiles take advantage!). So if you are up for a party, they are always ready. You will never feel lonely and they hate to be alone. They always want a zillion people in the house and as much talking and noise going on as possible. Generally speaking. There are always exceptions of course in any culture.

As for the USA, it is a mixed bag now. The melting pot was held together by economic opportunity. But now the country is a mix of socialism, bible belt veiled racism/fundamentalism, libertarianism, feminism, militias, etc.. As Armstrong has predicted, the USA will break apart into regions. It can not sustain the melting pot once the economic opportunity begins to collapse after 2018. This is what socialism killed. Well we were never really united, it was just a mirage of immigrants suppressing their own cultures and language when they arrived so they could attain economic advancement. This was because we were in the past discriminating against those who didn't adopt our culture. But political correctness killed that and so now the USA will fracture.

This is fact.

Liberals hate the damned facts. But facts are facts.

P.S. As for the European Union ... shudder ... there is actually more opportunity in Russia and Eastern Europe, but we'll have to see if they can get their act together in terms of rule of law and not rule by an oligarchy and then taking out their frustrations on us in the west. We have enough of our own problems and so can't be a target of your angst at your own corrupt system.


Edit:

Let's psychoanalyze those want to troll me with a thread like this. Actually I have no censorship motivated objection about making a thread about me (I wish so much, it was possible to do something great without attaining any personal fame), it just feels really stupid because I (the idealist in me) think the technology is more important than the person, which is one of the main reasons I hate vaporware ICOs.

This thread serves mainly to deflect attention away from Dash's instamine scam.

+1 for conscious reason.

The subconscious reason this thread exists is the psychological phenomenon that it is better to destroy everyone, than to fail alone.

"I dropped my ice cream in the mud, so now I am throwing mud on your ice cream so we are the same, because God hates us equally".

This is what socialism built. Equality is prosperity, because fairness is the uniformity of nature's Gaussian distribution. Equality is a human right! Didn't you know that!

They would rather waste the time of important coders whose time would be better spent coding a solution for humanity, so as to satisfy their inability to accept their mistakes and jealousy.

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[nikster]

First of all, you lost all my trust when saying, "even the filipinos agree the US is supreme"

Logically you should separate your objective research of the law from this nonsense attempt to try to frame me as a racist.

I've been living in the Philippines mostly since I was 26 years old. I will be 51 in June. I know about filipinos much better than you do. Filipinos even criticize themselves for admiring the USA too much. I tried in the past to argue to normal filipinos that the USA is really not the paradise they think it is on television.

The word 'supreme' was not my choice. It was the choice of the troll in this thread who was trying to shift the discussion to one of trying to frame me as a racist to deflect attention away from the scam Waves.

I would rather say that filipinos are envious of their countrymen who are able to migrate to the USA, because they think we have better governance and more economic opportunity. They criticize their own countrymen for refusing to follow even basic laws such as not littering, not urinating in the road, making illegal U turns in the middle of a 6 lane highway, driving the wrong direction on the highway at high speeds, and just about every way you can imagine that filipinos ignore their own laws.

Having said that, they say the USA is lonely and they love their home and their culture. They do criticize the USA for being too liberated, too much divorce, and for losing some of the conservative family values that are so cherished by filipinos.

One thing you don't understand about filipinos and perhaps the most important fact about their culture, is that filipinos first and foremost want to have fun every day. And they love to share everything with each other, including strangers and foreigners. So if you are up for a party, they are always ready. You will never feel lonely and they hate to be alone. They always want a zillion people in the house and as much talking and noise going on as possible. Generally speaking. There are always exceptions of course in any culture.

You'd be suprised to know how much contact I have with Filipinos, I admire them!
Even tho they are "less advanced" than my country.

and I added some more points to my post, would love to hear your comment on the grey area

[TPTB_need_war]

crypto ICO's are GREY area and will remain so for much longer time, and when that time comes (years),
There will not be a witchhunt like you imply, cause this is a worldwide phenomenon and as long as these companies will use the funds to pay devs and developments,
And those coins/token will be used on the platforms for various actions, There aint nothing wrong with it, for now.
And if there will be, it will be taxing not prosecuting, imho.

Why dont you say DASH will be prosecuted for instamine, and bitcoin as well for that matter?

Btw, you should study the history of how the government first allows the public to run amok, then it steps in with regulation and makes examples of the egregious cases. Remember the government has a monopoly on crime and they do enforce that monopoly.

I do say DASH will also perhaps be prosecuted.

I also added to my prior post.

[nikster]

crypto ICO's are GREY area and will remain so for much longer time, and when that time comes (years),
There will not be a witchhunt like you imply, cause this is a worldwide phenomenon and as long as these companies will use the funds to pay devs and developments,
And those coins/token will be used on the platforms for various actions, There aint nothing wrong with it, for now.
And if there will be, it will be taxing not prosecuting, imho.

Why dont you say DASH will be prosecuted for instamine, and bitcoin as well for that matter?

Btw, you should study the history of how the government first allows the public to run amok, then it steps in with regulation and makes examples of the egregious cases. Remember the government has a monopoly on crime and they do enforce that monopoly.

I do say DASH will also perhaps be prosecuted.

I also added to my prior post.

With that I agree, they will let everyone do as they please, but than just tax them accordingly.
enforcing worldwide spread is not easy, and perhaps not doable.
They tried doing it with porn in the 90's, file sharing in 2000's and so on...
and servers kept over heating and got fried up

I still dont understand why your'e calling waves a scam only cuz it made an ico (like everyone now).
Its devs are legit, real names with real work behind them.
So they thought charles and kushti are friends which will support them, and were wrong, apologized and moved on.
everyone got their asses covered legaly ofc..
so if you think all ico's are scams, you got lots of work now not just on waves bro

Please clearify. tnx

[Come-from-Beyond]

So recently when I discovered Charles had tried to advise Ethereum to blacklist USA non-accredited investors and when they refused he left Ethereum, my respect for him rose immensely. And I started to think, "hey maybe I could work with Charles, he has good ethics".

Since when respecting laws (protecting banksters and harming poor ones) became good ethics?

[sandiman]

this thread has gone totally out of hand 

[TPTB_need_war]

Charles If I were you I'd delete this post completely or make it self-moderated, at least.

He can't delete it and he can't self-moderate it after the fact. He can only lock it. And any of those actions will be taken in a negative light as if he has something to hide.

We know you don't want this information published here and for obvious reasons.

I bet Charles will become much more careful about whom he chooses to "have talks" with in the future.

[traumschiff]

My (wild guess) opinion/speculation follows. I can read between the lines too, as many of you probably did also. Kushti is friends with Sasha. Kushti is a Russian who isn't hung up on formalities of laws we have in the West and is primarily interested in developing the code and having enough money to afford better lighting in his dingy apartment (this is a joke for anyone who has seen the Waves Hangout video). I guesstimate that Kushti doesn't have an ethical stance against ICOs and he probably thinks it was all just hunkydory.

Boy I dont' quite know whether you're conscientiously wrote down that shockingly stupid and pretty racist crap or you're just a mindless zombie repeating stereotypes got during Crappy Nonsense Network (CNN) or other media paranoia consumption. Anyway I would like to suggest you to get rid of the brainwashing. I'm pretty sure my advise will be ignored though.

+1

Also requoting myself, because TPTB seemed to accuse Waves again to be an MLM (he clearly doesn't know what MLM stands for, but likes to favour racism in general):

Just because you went to a school, which was populated by african-americans doesn't make you not hate them or not dislike other races. The reason why you took the MLM approach to this "Russian investment" is because MLM and Ponzi games are popular in that geographic area, that's known, but this has nothing to do with an MLM/Ponzi structure, but still you accuse them with this, because the lead dev is Russian? Really?

[sandiman]

you did not state it as a statistical fact...and high crime in area with poverty does not imply the abandonment of rule of law ...it is an inference that is bigoted. One that I find disturbing. It has tainted, greatly my opinion of your. Sorry thats how I feel. and that's a fact

It is a statistical fact that inner cities regions have higher crime rates, but thus by definition a lower respect for the rule of law. Crime can't increase if there aren't more people who disrespect the law or an ineffective legal system that allows repeat offenders. Or a corrupt legal system that prosecutes the innocent. In either case or all of the above, it makes my statement factual.

And it is evident by recent protects that the African-american community to some extent feels the justice system is not entirely serving their interests.

There is some grey area in there, so I did include the word 'perhaps'.

Now would you please stop cluttering the thread with a nonsense attempt to label me as a social misfit. Your biased motivation as a Waves supporter is entirely obvious.

And you are also wasting my very expensive time, which is really pissing me off. Stay on topic. Damn it!

WTF happened to our world. Instead of engineers and coders, we've become the social misfit conformance cry baby gestapo propaganda slaves. Is that how you young Europeans think about life, that is always about equality as a human right. Fuck man, no wonder Europe is fucking toasted. Entitled spoiled cry babies, who get pissed off when we don't let them make MLM scams to steal from us.

how to spit on our ancestors fight for rights in 3 lines  don't forget that humanity has not enjoyed such rights for 99% of its existence.

[TPTB_need_war]

WTF happened to our world. Instead of engineers and coders, we've become the social misfit conformance cry baby gestapo propaganda slaves. Is that how you young Europeans think about life, that is always about equality as a human right. Fuck man, no wonder Europe is fucking toasted. Entitled spoiled cry babies, who get pissed off when we don't let them make MLM scams to steal from us.

how to spit on our ancestors fight for rights in 3 lines   don't forget that humanity has not enjoyed such rights for 99% of its existence.

The Magna Carta and Bill of Rights didn't propose to make us equal. Get an education and then come back here. Until then, don't let the door hit you in your dumb ass on the way out of here. Bye uneducated dufus. You are now on Ignore along with the other dumb or disingenuous trolls traumschiff and Come-from-Beyond.

[Come-from-Beyond]

The Magna Carta and Bill of Rights didn't propose to make us equal. Get an education and then come back here. Until then, don't let the door hit you in your dumb ass on the way out of here. Bye uneducated dufus. You are now on Ignore along with the other dumb or disingenuous trolls traumschiff and Come-from-Beyond.

Personal insults are the most favorite "arguments" of TPTB...

[TPTB_need_war]

enforcing worldwide spread is not easy, and perhaps not doable.
They tried doing it with porn in the 90's, file sharing in 2000's and so on...
and servers kept over heating and got fried up

As I explained the key distinction upthread, those are free markets because they are decentralized and there is no significant asymmetry of information which makes it otherwise.

It pisses me off when readers waste my expensive time by ignoring what I already wrote twice in this thread. This makes three times. Please readers don't make me teach this again by writing another post which ignores my prior points.

I still dont understand why your'e calling waves a scam only cuz it made an ico (like everyone now).
Its devs are legit, real names with real work behind them.
So they thought charles and kushti are friends which will support them, and were wrong, apologized and moved on.
everyone got their asses covered legaly ofc..
so if you think all ico's are scams, you got lots of work now not just on waves bro

Please clearify. tnx

1. I already provided the link to the thread two or three times in this thread, which explains that ICOs sold to non-accredited USA investors are ostensibly illegal.

I hate ICOs by now for other reasons:

2. They contribute to the mainstream thinking that crypto-currency is a scam and thus we will have great difficulty getting CC widely adopted if don't put a stop to these scams.

3. They extract capital to a few scammers, which could be better uses to build our real ecosystems that are not vaporware and have real decentralized designs, such as Bitcoin and Monero.

4. They prey on the ignorance of n00b speculators, thus can never be a free market.

5. They can never attain adoption because they destroy the Nash equilibrium and decentralization of the ecosystem:

As an example: I can show that dash is an oligarchy, whether intentional or not, due to the way their paynode scheme works. These systems are designed to work trustlessly, so any hiccups (intentional or not) should be invalidated by the design, not left-up to the good or bad intentions of those who are engaged with it.

did the monero wrote that fact about infinite supply in their ann Huh   if i was an investard in monero i would feel cheated if it isnt

No one can fork Monero without the support of the decentralized miners. The distinction from the Dash masternode scam, is that a masternode is staked only once with DRK (Dash tokens) and earns 50+% ROI per annum forever after for the largest holders of Dash tokens, thus further centralizing the coin meaning there is a centralized oligarchy which the investors are relying on for their future expecation of profits which afaics fulfills the Howey test for what is an investment security that is regulated by the Securities Act. A decentralized PoW miner is constantly expending on electricity in a competitive free market. Owning a lot of Monero doesn't give you any leverage as a miner.

New post to better articulate why permissioned ledger, closed entopy systems likely have no value:

The problem with Emunie, as I talked about in the IOTA thread, is that any system that doesn't have permanent coin turnover via mining, removes mining completely, or puts some type of abstraction layer between mining and block reward (as in the case of IOTA), is a permissioned ledger.  People got too caught up in trying to improve on consensus mechanisms and forgot what actually constitutes a decentralized currency in the first place.

When Maxwell said he "proved mathematically that Bitcoin couldn't exist" and then it did exist, it was because he didn't take open entropy systems into account.  He already knew stuff like NXT or Emunie could exist, but nobody actually considered them to be decentralized.  They're distributed but not decentralized.  Basically stocks that come from a central authority and then the shareholders attempt to form a nash equilibrium to...siphon fees from other shareholders in a zero sum game because there is no nash equilibrium to be had by outsiders adopting a closed entropy system in the first place...

Take for example the real world use case of a nash equilbrium in finance.  There's many rival nations on earth and they're all competing in currency wars, manipulating, devaluing, etc.  They would all be better off with an undisputed unit of account that the other can't tamper with for trade.  In order to adopt said unit, it would have to be a permissionless system that each nation has access to where one of the group isn't suspected to have an enormous advantage over the others, otherwise they would all just say no.

This is why gold was utilized at all.  Yea, some territories had more than others, but nobody actually knew what was under the ground at the time.  Everyone just agreed it was scarce, valuable, and nobody really had a monopoly on it.  There are really no circumstances where people on an individual level or nation-state level can come together to form any kind of nash equilibrium in a closed entropy system.  The market is cornered by design, and for value to increase, others need to willingly submit to the equivalent of an extortion scheme.  The only time systems like that have value at all is when governments use coercion to force them onto people.

6. Because they are not decentralized and rely on expectation of profits based on the performance of a core group, ICOs turn what should be a competition for creating the best technology into a fist fucking fest of ad hominem and political games:

Let's psychoanalyze those want to troll me with a thread like this. Actually I have no censorship motivated objection about making a thread about me (I wish so much, it was possible to do something great without attaining any personal fame), it just feels really stupid because I (the idealist in me) think the technology is more important than the person, which is one of the main reasons I hate vaporware ICOs.

This thread serves mainly to deflect attention away from Dash's instamine scam.

+1 for conscious reason.

The subconscious reason this thread exists is the psychological phenomenon that it is better to destroy everyone, than to fail alone.

"I dropped my ice cream in the mud, so now I am throwing mud on your ice cream so we are the same, because God hates us equally".

This is what socialism built. Equality is prosperity, because fairness is the uniformity of nature's Gaussian distribution. Equality is a human right! Didn't you know that!

They would rather waste the time of important coders whose time would be better spent coding a solution for humanity, so as to satisfy their inability to accept their mistakes and jealousy.

7. ICOs have less liquidity because they are not widely distributed and due to #5:

you can read my observations here.

Interesting post.

The salient quote is of course:

Why litecoin? Liquidity. These guys own 5 and 6 digits amount of BTC. They need massive liquidity to increase their holdings by any significant degree. And as such litecoin has been a blessing. Will history repeat itself?

I've had that in my mind for a loooong time. Liquidity is absolutely necessary for the design, marketing, and distribution of crypto-currency, if you want to succeed.

[nikster]

It pisses me off when readers waste my expensive time by ignoring what I already wrote twice in this thread. This makes three times. Please readers don't make me teach this again by writing another post which ignores my prior points.

You write alot, hard to keep up. and if you spend so much time here, I doubt its expensive, seems more of a hobby to you.

1. I already provided the link to the thread two or three times in this thread, which explains that ICOs sold to non-accredited USA investors are ostensibly illegal.

Again with the US.. THAT doesnt make WAVES a scam, makes it ilegal to invest at the US, at best!
Scammers are people who say 1 thing, then RUN AWAY to hawai with your btc.
And I think all of us were hurt in a way by such people..

2. They contribute to the mainstream thinking that crypto-currency is a scam and thus we will have great difficulty getting CC widely adopted if don't put a stop to these scams.

The opposite, many of my non crypto friends, are now interested in this area cuz of its massive advance in services.
It made crypto belong to all of the world, NOT JUST MINERS and tech people, that is unfair.

I hate ICOs by now for other reasons:
3. They extract capital to a few scammers, which could be better uses to build our real ecosystems that are not vaporware and have real decentralized designs, such as Bitcoin and Monero.

really, monero?
I rest my case here, even if you are a monero troll or not.
Monero has nothing new to offer to our changing world.
Its a coin of the past, and it seems we found your sensor/heart/motive.  

And if the 3 pools of bitcoin is considered decetralized for you, than i dont know what else to say.
Its far from perfect decetralized design, yet.

DPOS / LPOS are decetralized designs btw, some say more than pow's pools. (vitalik himself said it)
delegates and votes create a fine decentralized system.

and by spreading the ico tokens by 2k-4k investors, is a nice INITIAL spread before exchanges kick in.

[TPTB_need_war]

1. I already provided the link to the thread two or three times in this thread, which explains that ICOs sold to non-accredited USA investors are ostensibly illegal.

Again with the US.. THAT doesnt make WAVES a scam, makes it ilegal to invest at the US, at best!

Incorrect. It makes it illegal to issue and promote to US investors. The investors aren't really culpable much.

2. They contribute to the mainstream thinking that crypto-currency is a scam and thus we will have great difficulty getting CC widely adopted if don't put a stop to these scams.

The opposite, many of my non crypto friends, are now interested in this area cuz of its massive advance in services.
It made crypto belong to all of the world, NOT JUST MINERS and tech people, that is unfair.

Your geek friends don't constitute millions of adopters. I wrote "mainstream" thinks we are creating scams and investment ponzi schemes.

Also it is a phase they and you will go through and later you will gain enough experience with failures of ICO coins and say, "you know what, that Shelby guy was correct".

I hate ICOs by now for other reasons:
3. They extract capital to a few scammers, which could be better uses to build our real ecosystems that are not vaporware and have real decentralized designs, such as Bitcoin and Monero.

really, monero?

Include also Litecoin. They are the only decentralized, proof-of-work issued coins of suitable liquidity.

[nikster]

Put my geek friends (O_O) aside.
Microsoft, banks and fintech institutions looking at crypto means nothing to you?
everyday another bank or trading platform wants blockchain in its system.

none of them are talking about litecoin, monero or doge. Yes doge. 

you gotta lay low with the insults. getting you nowhere.

[TPTB_need_war]

Put my geek friends (O_O) aside.
Microsoft, banks and fintech institutions looking at crypto means nothing to you?
everyday another bank or trading platform wants blockchain in its system.

none of them are talking about litecoin, monero or doge. Yes doge. 

Why do we always have to repeat ourselves?

And even if that is the outcome, the banks don't need the tokens and its questionable history. They need only the open source code and the developers who know how to code on it. So again the developers and insiders get everything and the foolish n00b token investors get an empty bag.

you gotta lay low with the insults. getting you nowhere.

What insult is in my immediately prior post 

Is geek an insulting word? I wear that word as badge of honor. I'm a geek.

[smooth]

DPOS / LPOS are decetralized designs btw, some say more than pow's pools. (vitalik himself said it)

It is not possible to you that Vitalik could be completely wrong? WTFF?!

Make whatever arguments you make but "Vitalik said so" er, ain't one.

Microsoft, banks and fintech institutions looking at crypto means nothing to you?
everyday another bank or trading platform wants blockchain in its system.

none of them are talking about litecoin, monero or doge. Yes doge.

There is definitely real fintech being done with Bitcoin (also some with ETH). A lot of it is startups trying to build something valuable while limiting competition so they tend to keep a lower profile than all these 'blockchain' efforts which have little substance and tend to be intentionally-conspicuous and loud vehicles for advocacy and fundraising.

This BTW, is another reason that ICOs are bullshit. If you want to build something with sustainable competitive advantage you need a degree of secrecy, at least for a time. That is incompatible with ICOs as a funding model for development, since those have to be as loud and visible as possible to attract many small investors, and also can't really be keep anything of substance secret without compromising disclosure, reducing the effectiveness of the sales pitch, or both. Real startups do this by raising money, initially, privately from a small number sophisticated investors.

Anyway, that's largely off topic for this thread. I'm still curious as to kushti's answers to my questions though:

Please help clear up any lingering confusion that may exist by answering the questions I posted earlier:

@kushti Did you ever have any formal or informal agreement to serve as an advisor or in any other role on the Waves team, either individually, as a Nxt developer, or as an employee of IOHK? (The latter seems clear from previous posts but best to clarify.)

If not, did you engage in any communications with the Waves team or founders which could reasonably have led them to believe you would serve in such a role?

[Palaxidon]

this thread has gone totally out of hand 

Haha... Was reading page 11 and started to think exactly same xD

[Palaxidon]

I remember when Ico started and there was just few icos. But then this all ico thing went kinda fast out of the hand. There is just too much diffrent ICO's now  for all kinda things and every succesfull idea being copied by someone else who make similar ICO and so on.. The new projects with those ICO just start to look more and more copy & paste from other similar projects and people dont pay attention to real coins anymore :/

[chretienm123]

this thread has gone totally out of hand 

Haha... Was reading page 11 and started to think exactly same xD

Yes  agree I am trying to research what waves is all about and have to go through a bunch of insult flinging with no real substance. This thread has been a waste of my time.