USD vs BTC

[deisik]

But hey you already know my opinion.  A floating (adjustable) money supply has but one purpose - to confiscate the wealth of the people using it.  Claims otherwise often made by those in the employ of the counterfeiters are usually tedious, comical, and easy to spot.  I'm sure you are familiar with the relevant quotes on the topic from e.g. Henry Ford, Herr Rothschild, John Calhoun, Louis T. McFadden, and various others.  Thanks I will check out more Taleb

I got your point long ago

Basically, it comes down to claiming that despite possible theoretical superiority of adjustable money supply over a fixed one, it is worse in practice since it is always gets heavily abused by counterfeiters (as you mean it). But we are back to where we started with. In one of my first posts in this discussion, I accepted your assumption (for the sake of simplicity) that fiat money as a practical implementation of adjustable supply gets abused and fails inevitably. But you still have to prove that Bitcoin as a beacon of fixed money supply (or arbitrarily defined by some algorithm) would work at all (provided it is the only currency out there). I'm heavily inclined to think that if we somehow removed fiat and forced Bitcoin in the blink of an eye, the economies would quickly crash

[Harlot]

Nope. If popularity is asked of course US dollar will win. If you ask people do they know what USD is they will say Yes. And if you ask if they know what Bitcoin is almost all people will say no. Also another fact is that all banks in the world accepts US dollar accounts in their local banks. While Bitcoin is not even recognize by any banks. I hope you get my point.

[legendbtc]

Nope. If popularity is asked of course US dollar will win. If you ask people do they know what USD is they will say Yes. And if you ask if they know what Bitcoin is almost all people will say no. Also another fact is that all banks in the world accepts US dollar accounts in their local banks. While Bitcoin is not even recognize by any banks. I hope you get my point.

Yes i agree with you USD is completely different when compared with bitcoin, bitcoin is mining technology but where as USD is not mine able and where as bitcoin has introduced recently really it takes lot of time to recognize by the banks.

[angaper]

Instead of answering this weird question, we should ask OP what led him to open a new thread to talk about such an absurd point. Moreover, I see that he never returned to the discussion and decided to abandone the thread instead.

[mornabo]

Nope. If popularity is asked of course US dollar will win. If you ask people do they know what USD is they will say Yes. And if you ask if they know what Bitcoin is almost all people will say no. Also another fact is that all banks in the world accepts US dollar accounts in their local banks. While Bitcoin is not even recognize by any banks. I hope you get my point.

Yes i agree with you USD is completely different when compared with bitcoin, bitcoin is mining technology but where as USD is not mine able and where as bitcoin has introduced recently really it takes lot of time to recognize by the banks.

That's why getting bitcoin easier than getting fiat. although bitcoin is also a currency, but you can not compare bitcoin by fiat
because both have differences. and besides, the two are not mutually dropping right ?

[funkenstein]

But hey you already know my opinion.  A floating (adjustable) money supply has but one purpose - to confiscate the wealth of the people using it.  Claims otherwise often made by those in the employ of the counterfeiters are usually tedious, comical, and easy to spot.  I'm sure you are familiar with the relevant quotes on the topic from e.g. Henry Ford, Herr Rothschild, John Calhoun, Louis T. McFadden, and various others.  Thanks I will check out more Taleb

I got your point long ago

Basically, it comes down to claiming that despite possible theoretical superiority of adjustable money supply over a fixed one, it is worse in practice since it is always gets heavily abused by counterfeiters (as you mean it). But we are back to where we started with. In one of my first posts in this discussion, I accepted your assumption (for the sake of simplicity) that fiat money as a practical implementation of adjustable supply gets abused and fails inevitably. But you still have to prove that Bitcoin as a beacon of fixed money supply (or arbitrarily defined by some algorithm) would work at all (provided it is the only currency out there). I'm heavily inclined to think that if we somehow removed fiat and forced Bitcoin in the blink of an eye, the economies would quickly crash

I also thought like that occasionally, some years ago.  "All this was built by fiat" I would say, sweeping my arm majestically at the financial center of London or New York.  But this is a comic absurdity.  We might as well cut one toe off at birth of all people, and then say "All this was built because we cut one toe off at birth of all people" .  The logic is simply not there.  Logic shows that there is NO theoretical superiority of a money supply adjustable by discretion of individuals.  Theoretically and experimentally this can only be utter and complete economic disaster.  The only reason it has sustained itself is due to the incredible increases in production and efficiency over the last century.  Looking at the increases due to improved utilization of land, automation, communication, and transportation - one would estimate the standard of living should be at least 10 to 100 times higher than it was 50 years ago for everyone.  Instead, we have diverted these gains into destruction and waste through a system of kakocracy and cleptocracy enabled by an adjustable money supply.  It will take the world a long time to recover from such madness.  That educated persons such as ourselves might consider defending the madness makes it clear - this is going to take a long time to eradicate. 

 

[deisik]

But hey you already know my opinion.  A floating (adjustable) money supply has but one purpose - to confiscate the wealth of the people using it.  Claims otherwise often made by those in the employ of the counterfeiters are usually tedious, comical, and easy to spot.  I'm sure you are familiar with the relevant quotes on the topic from e.g. Henry Ford, Herr Rothschild, John Calhoun, Louis T. McFadden, and various others.  Thanks I will check out more Taleb

I got your point long ago

Basically, it comes down to claiming that despite possible theoretical superiority of adjustable money supply over a fixed one, it is worse in practice since it is always gets heavily abused by counterfeiters (as you mean it). But we are back to where we started with. In one of my first posts in this discussion, I accepted your assumption (for the sake of simplicity) that fiat money as a practical implementation of adjustable supply gets abused and fails inevitably. But you still have to prove that Bitcoin as a beacon of fixed money supply (or arbitrarily defined by some algorithm) would work at all (provided it is the only currency out there). I'm heavily inclined to think that if we somehow removed fiat and forced Bitcoin in the blink of an eye, the economies would quickly crash

I also thought like that occasionally, some years ago.  "All this was built by fiat" I would say, sweeping my arm majestically at the financial center of London or New York.  But this is a comic absurdity.  We might as well cut one toe off at birth of all people, and then say "All this was built because we cut one toe off at birth of all people" .  The logic is simply not there.  Logic shows that there is NO theoretical superiority of a money supply adjustable by discretion of individuals.  Theoretically and experimentally this can only be utter and complete economic disaster.  The only reason it has sustained itself is due to the incredible increases in production and efficiency over the last century.  Looking at the increases due to improved utilization of land, automation, communication, and transportation - one would estimate the standard of living should be at least 10 to 100 times higher than it was 50 years ago for everyone.  Instead, we have diverted these gains into destruction and waste through a system of kakocracy and cleptocracy enabled by an adjustable money supply.  It will take the world a long time to recover from such madness.  That educated persons such as ourselves might consider defending the madness makes it clear - this is going to take a long time to eradicate

You are talking about how bad is fiat

But that doesn't magically make Bitcoin's drawbacks go away, right? And I tell you for the third time already, let's assume that you are right. Fiat is bad and all that. Just because money supply adjustable by discretion of individuals is evil doesn't make fixed money supply any better due to that. So what about Bitcoin now after all (or any algorithmically determined money supply, for that matter)? Let's suppose there are no limits to network processing capacity, blocks sizes and similar technical aspects, transactions are confirmed instantly and so on

[coinfast]

USD, this most commonly converted currency in the world. So what do you think who will win. The bitcoin that cant buy directly all the things in market or the USD that can buy all the things directly. We all know that bitcoin cant buy directly so we need USD, so that we can buy all the things we want to buy.

[danherbias07]

USD, this most commonly converted currency in the world. So what do you think who will win. The bitcoin that cant buy directly all the things in market or the USD that can buy all the things directly. We all know that bitcoin cant buy directly so we need USD, so that we can buy all the things we want to buy.

Hmmm that is kind of a narrow thinking. Not all can be bought by USD some still prefer the other way or their own fiat. Yes it is a strong currency and well known but bitcoin is still different, its usage is kind of a online currency when USD is just a good to the eye for physical thing because of its strength.

[jaysabi]

Whether USD, bitcoin, gold, or any other currency or commodity, the thing that gives it value is the confidence that it will be considered valuable by many other people. In this respect, whether you use the USD or bitcoin, the value merely comes down to a confidence game. The USD has value because so many people believe that it does. Similarly, bitcoins have value because there are enough people who believe that they are valuable for them to retain that value. If something catastrophic were to happen to either the USD or btc to cause large numbers of people to lose confidence that those instruments would be considered valuable in the future by large numbers of people, you would see the value of them decline. It all comes back to confidence.

Gold has intrinsic value just like any other commodity that can be used directly, so these are out of your "confidence game". With dollars you pay taxes, and as long as the government can make you feel the pain in the ass for not paying them, it is also not about trust. It looks like only Bitcoin has nothing behind it but trust alone.

Gold's "intrinsic" value is based on historical longevity. There's nothing special about it other than superstition. It can suffer a loss of confidence the same as any other asset. All fiat also is only based on confidence. Hyperinflation is a direct result of a lack of trust in the currency, often because governments print it into obsolescence.

[data1]

ofcourse it is. who the hell can say that bitcoin is at $1000 . if i say it to my friends they are sply think i am bluffing with thema d hencd will try to ignore it

[coinfast]

 Bitcoin is a way better alternative than local currency if they are just shopping stuff online while the dollar is more convenient if they do predominantly cash purchases. Bitcoin can substitute successfully debit and credit cards.

[xypos]

Bitcoin is a way better alternative than local currency if they are just shopping stuff online while the dollar is more convenient if they do predominantly cash purchases. Bitcoin can substitute successfully debit and credit cards.

Yeah, debit cards and credit cards are prone to chargebacks and the seller has to cop the negative balance in the end. This is why a lot of sellers online now do not accept Paypal or Credit card, but rather only with bitcoin.

I think that the biggest difference between USD and BTC is the decentralisation.

[deppil]

Nope. If popularity is asked of course US dollar will win. If you ask people do they know what USD is they will say Yes. And if you ask if they know what Bitcoin is almost all people will say no. Also another fact is that all banks in the world accepts US dollar accounts in their local banks. While Bitcoin is not even recognize by any banks. I hope you get my point.

of course, from all aspects of the dollar will be superior, because all users will still depend on fiat, fiat users do not all rely on bitcoin.
but bitcoin it is also very important to me besides fiat

[Yuuto]

Nope. If popularity is asked of course US dollar will win. If you ask people do they know what USD is they will say Yes. And if you ask if they know what Bitcoin is almost all people will say no. Also another fact is that all banks in the world accepts US dollar accounts in their local banks. While Bitcoin is not even recognize by any banks. I hope you get my point.

of course, from all aspects of the dollar will be superior, because all users will still depend on fiat, fiat users do not all rely on bitcoin.
but bitcoin it is also very important to me besides fiat

That is definitely not true.

Fiat is by no means superior. Just think about the ridiulous fees you are charged back something like WU or your bank for an international transfer. And it takes something like 3-5 days up to a few weeks for the transaction to clear.

Do you really like that? With bitcoin, it is instantaneous and almost free.

[Fatanut]

Nope. If popularity is asked of course US dollar will win. If you ask people do they know what USD is they will say Yes. And if you ask if they know what Bitcoin is almost all people will say no. Also another fact is that all banks in the world accepts US dollar accounts in their local banks. While Bitcoin is not even recognize by any banks. I hope you get my point.

of course, from all aspects of the dollar will be superior, because all users will still depend on fiat, fiat users do not all rely on bitcoin.
but bitcoin it is also very important to me besides fiat

That is definitely not true.

Fiat is by no means superior. Just think about the ridiulous fees you are charged back something like WU or your bank for an international transfer. And it takes something like 3-5 days up to a few weeks for the transaction to clear.

Do you really like that? With bitcoin, it is instantaneous and almost free.

Never tried international bank transfer but if what you're saying is true, then international transfer is ridiculously slow. There are other money remittances that are available now, you should check it out. It depends on your country so I cannot actually mention a particular company name. I think you can easily receive the money even if you're from a different place, but I guess this has a limit and they wouldn't just allow millions of money getting sent in just one transaction unlike in bank transfer.

I disagree with you when you said fiat is in no way superior. Fiat is being used every single day (just like what the guy above you said). The transaction time and fee aren't the only things that you look at. You also look at its usability and I think that's one of the crucial factors that makes fiat superior than bitcoin.

But both fiat and bitcoin has flaws in the concept, has advantage and disadvantages. I'm not picking solely one of them. Both of them are essential to our daily lives as a bitcoiner.

[gabmen]

Nope. If popularity is asked of course US dollar will win. If you ask people do they know what USD is they will say Yes. And if you ask if they know what Bitcoin is almost all people will say no. Also another fact is that all banks in the world accepts US dollar accounts in their local banks. While Bitcoin is not even recognize by any banks. I hope you get my point.

of course, from all aspects of the dollar will be superior, because all users will still depend on fiat, fiat users do not all rely on bitcoin.
but bitcoin it is also very important to me besides fiat

That is definitely not true.

Fiat is by no means superior. Just think about the ridiulous fees you are charged back something like WU or your bank for an international transfer. And it takes something like 3-5 days up to a few weeks for the transaction to clear.

Do you really like that? With bitcoin, it is instantaneous and almost free.

Well fiat and bitcoin each have their own advantages and uses. For money transfers, I think we could all agree that bitcoin defeats fiat with how fast and easy it is. But whether we like it or not, at this time, most likely we still would have to convert whatever we transferred to fiat. It's not superior but fiat, or the dollar, is still more of a necessity in our lives that bitcoin and I think it would remain that way for quite a long time still

[xSkylarx]

is bitcoin more popular than US Dollar ?

I will just compare the two Currency: USD and Bitcoin in Base of my research ofcourse USD was the first who comes out on market before suddenly Bitcoin appeared. USD was more capability in security/safety than the bitcoin has, because bitcoin was uknown as Classified Currency that hides the identity of the individual and also people choose to use USD than bitcoin because of its popularity but bitcoin was a free currency which you can do more task than usd ( i think so) and earn more with it.

For me i will choose to have the two pair USD and BTC because two of them as own uniqueness and by using them as one i can earn more money and have more security for my money.

[bncbnc]

is bitcoin more popular than US Dollar ?

I will just compare the two Currency: USD and Bitcoin in Base of my research ofcourse USD was the first who comes out on market before suddenly Bitcoin appeared. USD was more capability in security/safety than the bitcoin has, because bitcoin was uknown as Classified Currency that hides the identity of the individual and also people choose to use USD than bitcoin because of its popularity but bitcoin was a free currency which you can do more task than usd ( i think so) and earn more with it.

For me i will choose to have the two pair USD and BTC because two of them as own uniqueness and by using them as one i can earn more money and have more security for my money.

i think there is no comparim between bitcoin and USD. because USD is not a online currency and is not acceptable everywhere.you must change it in the local currency first and after that you can use it for for shopping. while bitcoin is a digital currency that can be use for without exchanging into local currency.

[maister77777]

I can advise everyone all its hide and dollars to spend on buying bitcoin and then one currency will work together with the other.