Syscoin vs Bitbay

[dadon]

I have 3 questions.
1. how did bitbay with it's oh so more compitent devs then sdc allow the project to turn into a bobsurplus pump and dump?
2. how did syscoin with it's oh so more compitent devs then sdc get the ipo ripped off?
3. does anyone have proof the sdc devs ripped people off..or is it just FUD..unlike my accusations..that are real..established..facts that people did acctually get ripped off by members of the team of sys and bitbay...even if there not members now!...they were..and we have proof..where your proof for any team member of sdc past or present ripping anyone off..show me the proof and i will give you back the thread

Hey I just started reading this thread and it is pretty interesting. Honestly, I think you underestimate how manipulative Bob is.

As anyone who knew anything about Bitbay, it was Steven Dai and Linn who approached me. Not Bob. Bob and Gekko only introduced themselves the day before. You can see this because Bob moronically dumped his chat logs on BCT with the txid of the 500 btc he kept.

When Bay started BTER was still a respected exchange. This was before their cold wallet hack.

I went into the project because of Steven. He promised me Chinese devs, financial support. I figured 5 people working on it made sense. It was not my project. The Halo business model included licensing which obviously now I see as a mistake since that puts my reputation on the line. You live, you learn.

I'm not a trader. I'm a coder and I had no clue who Bob surplus was. I've got better things to do than to waste time on forums. His Skype he goes by International Rob. So we only talked on Skype. Not to mention an investor and Gekko had flown out to China to meet Lin. But like I said I had not met Bob until days before. After meeting him I almost backed out cause he gave me the creeps. But Steven promised me it was okay. He said they would help with marketing as neither he or Lin wanted to do that. Since they only wanted me as project manager it made sense at the time.

So these guys gave me assurance that they were not going to fuck me over. And i did express concerns. Plus Steven paid a deposit on my work in advance. This is old news, you can read Bitbays Reddit and not to mention the news covered this in my favor I might add. Ian Demartino was the only news that desperately wanted to propagandize me. But he was unable to!! He read all of my chat logs, we spent like 5 hours on the phone and he found no proof that I was anything but a coder.

Besides why would I willingly let someone abuse my name and scam me. I'm not anonymous that's the stupidest thing ever. I would have to be masochist or retarded. I assure you I'm neither.

What happened to Bitbay was good old fashioned sabotage. And propaganda. Politics, smear campaigns your typical crap that makes the world as fucked as it is. Propaganda is evil hopefully a special place in hell is reserved for those that partake in it.

By the way, it wasn't less than a couple weeks of hell before I told everyone what went on. I would consider that pretty fast. It's been more than one year since then and I've been coding ever since.

Well I'm sorry about that and If you didn't know that understandable if you were not active here, but when i saw him in the thread alarm bells went off...anyways..the whole reason i commented originaly on this thread was just to give a head up about there is more competition then just sys vs bitbay...but then the project i have supported for over 2 years was personally attacked..and i had a bad day..so i didn't react the way i normally would...my apologies..because i have seen you in our thread and i respect you immensely...so please do accept my apology..

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[Kewde]

^^^
Who is this

SDC ? that broken pile of junk that caused many previous investors to lose a fortune because their code was trash?

Those investors were ripped off, they were scammed. They though they were investing in something that worked. Not some broken contraption that would reduce their net BTC worth. I heard (maybe just a conspiracy theory )this was an intentional flaw and the devs there had their buy orders in ready to scoop all those cheap coins up. This mean the scammers are still involved with your project. I'm not sure which is worse. You can't code reliable code or you want to manipulate and hoard all the coins to dump later.

either way clearly not anyone you want to trust your hard earned money with...let alone develop a financial system..

Just think what mistakes they will code into something this complex. I wouldn't list an old pair of shoes on your market place. Now please make your own thread. The OP asked for a comparison between 2 serious projects sys and bay. He does not want to be drawn into investing in poorly coded broken trash that will fail and leave him in financial ruin.

The other guy discussing sdc seemed more reasonable but you only understand the direct approach i see with no room for cordial discussion. Now stop attacking other projects and make fair comparisons on the tech or you'll draw others to your level and SDC is a sitting duck in that case.

OP was shill working for BitBay anyways.

On the other hand, perpeptuating bullshit conspiracy theories and then saying 'maybe' doesn't free you of any guilt.

2. the small bug?? - well as I heard it. The small bug was not a small bug. The person that found it said that huge amount of anonymous data was not anonymous any more? is that not correct?? I mean if that was correct on a anonymous market place I'm sure that would not be classed as a small??? I also heard  they stole code from eclipse to solve their issues. Of course this could all be false and no truth there at all?

If you want to compare the current tech of these 3 projects then go ahead.

It was in fact a small bug from the technical point-of-view, which was easily resolved in a fast and professional manner. The definition of a small bug is one that only affects a particular area of code that is deemed small. There were no systematic bugs due to bad architecture.

Yes anonymous data as leaked, but the scale on which it happened was way overblown by XMR trolls. Only about 1/5 of the SDT tokens were spent, the others remained valid and anonymous.

We didn't still code from eclipse. I really want to punch people in the fact that make claims like that. They stole our whole source code added a minor, yet elegant fix to and it claimed it as theirs. Their argument is fucking nuts. We had a solution, but they had critique on our way of doing things, so we've adapted our design to fix that critique by using a similair method they used. Eclipse had not invented the wheel here, they merely adopted the solution proposed by the original bug hunter.
 

[dzimbeck]

I have 3 questions.
1. how did bitbay with it's oh so more compitent devs then sdc allow the project to turn into a bobsurplus pump and dump?
2. how did syscoin with it's oh so more compitent devs then sdc get the ipo ripped off?
3. does anyone have proof the sdc devs ripped people off..or is it just FUD..unlike my accusations..that are real..established..facts that people did acctually get ripped off by members of the team of sys and bitbay...even if there not members now!...they were..and we have proof..where your proof for any team member of sdc past or present ripping anyone off..show me the proof and i will give you back the thread

Hey I just started reading this thread and it is pretty interesting. Honestly, I think you underestimate how manipulative Bob is.

As anyone who knew anything about Bitbay, it was Steven Dai and Linn who approached me. Not Bob. Bob and Gekko only introduced themselves the day before. You can see this because Bob moronically dumped his chat logs on BCT with the txid of the 500 btc he kept.

When Bay started BTER was still a respected exchange. This was before their cold wallet hack.

I went into the project because of Steven. He promised me Chinese devs, financial support. I figured 5 people working on it made sense. It was not my project. The Halo business model included licensing which obviously now I see as a mistake since that puts my reputation on the line. You live, you learn.

I'm not a trader. I'm a coder and I had no clue who Bob surplus was. I've got better things to do than to waste time on forums. His Skype he goes by International Rob. So we only talked on Skype. Not to mention an investor and Gekko had flown out to China to meet Lin. But like I said I had not met Bob until days before. After meeting him I almost backed out cause he gave me the creeps. But Steven promised me it was okay. He said they would help with marketing as neither he or Lin wanted to do that. Since they only wanted me as project manager it made sense at the time.

So these guys gave me assurance that they were not going to fuck me over. And i did express concerns. Plus Steven paid a deposit on my work in advance. This is old news, you can read Bitbays Reddit and not to mention the news covered this in my favor I might add. Ian Demartino was the only news that desperately wanted to propagandize me. But he was unable to!! He read all of my chat logs, we spent like 5 hours on the phone and he found no proof that I was anything but a coder.

Besides why would I willingly let someone abuse my name and scam me. I'm not anonymous that's the stupidest thing ever. I would have to be masochist or retarded. I assure you I'm neither.

What happened to Bitbay was good old fashioned sabotage. And propaganda. Politics, smear campaigns your typical crap that makes the world as fucked as it is. Propaganda is evil hopefully a special place in hell is reserved for those that partake in it.

By the way, it wasn't less than a couple weeks of hell before I told everyone what went on. I would consider that pretty fast. It's been more than one year since then and I've been coding ever since.

Well I'm sorry about that and If you didn't know that understandable if you were not active here, but when i saw him in the thread alarm bells went off...anyways..the whole reason i commented originaly on this thread was just to give a head up about there is more competition then just sys vs bitbay...but then the project i have supported for over 2 years was personally attacked..and i had a bad day..so i didn't react the way i normally would...my apologies..because i have seen you in our thread and i respect you immensely...so please do accept my apology..

Oh well thank you, I appreciate it. Honestly, I have a good amount of respect for sys and shadows devs because I know how much work goes into what they do. In fact just recently chatted with the SDC dev about cryptography and security. He seemed pretty knowledgeable and I think they will deliver a product.

This software stuff takes time. Like the previous commenter said "one year in crypto". That just about sums up how crazy it is for developers who can take years coding something. Software is never done. Adobe Photoshop will have a new version every year for our grandkids.

So you combine the impatient vicious wolf of wall Street penny stocks where nobody holds for more than a week, with government agencies and their agendas for finance, with developers who in contrast need years to finish their work. They shouldn't work alone but they do, they need devs marketing and years of solid support depending on the scope of the project. And they hardly ever get that support.

So honestly all devs have my support, we know what you go through, if it's ico issues, hacks, FUD or just long days it's a bitch.

And for all the dishonest " devs" that aren't really devs? Well someone needs to throw them in the ocean

So yeah penny stocks and development....

It's like combining fire with water.

[dzimbeck]

Kewde, as for OP I dont participate in forum stuff. If some of the guys at Bitbay post a thread it's their thing to spark debate.

Personally I don't consider forums marketing. I think journalism is the best method of marketing.

I'm far to busy coding this damn thing to pay attention.

However, this thread caught my attention because they did tell me about it on slack and I saw some interesting comments, felt like it was worth responding.

Keep up the hard work bud, Im sure it will pay off.

[Kewde]

Kewde, as for OP I dont participate in forum stuff. If some of the guys at Bitbay post a thread it's their thing to spark debate.

Personally I don't consider forums marketing. I think journalism is the best method of marketing.

I'm far to busy coding this damn thing to pay attention.

However, this thread caught my attention because they did tell me about it on slack and I saw some interesting comments, felt like it was worth responding.

Keep up the hard work bud, Im sure it will pay off.

Hi David,

I agree with you on that, the community behind a coin can and should do as they see fit.
Debate is a positive thing as long as people stick to facts and not conspiracies.

You keep on coding David, but take a break from time to time so we can keep up with you 

I wish we could have had this discussion in a less hostile mood and if anyone wants to continue this discussion, please do so.

On a different note, I was a bit suprised how the sys crew handled the situation. Instead of addressing my legitimate concerns they went straight to battle with the so called "trolls". Which in my opinion seems like an attempted escape of a hard yet truthful discussion.

Have fun ol' chaps,
Kewde

[sidhujag]

Kewde, as for OP I dont participate in forum stuff. If some of the guys at Bitbay post a thread it's their thing to spark debate.

Personally I don't consider forums marketing. I think journalism is the best method of marketing.

I'm far to busy coding this damn thing to pay attention.

However, this thread caught my attention because they did tell me about it on slack and I saw some interesting comments, felt like it was worth responding.

Keep up the hard work bud, Im sure it will pay off.

Hi David,

I agree with you on that, the community behind a coin can and should do as they see fit.
Debate is a positive thing as long as people stick to facts and not conspiracies.

You keep on coding David, but take a break from time to time so we can keep up with you  

I wish we could have had this discussion in a less hostile mood and if anyone wants to continue this discussion, please do so.

On a different note, I was a bit suprised how the sys crew handled the situation. Instead of addressing my legitimate concerns they went straight to battle with the so called "trolls". Which in my opinion seems like an attempted escape of a hard yet truthful discussion.

Have fun ol' chaps,
Kewde

I'm not at all surprised at the trolling behavior of sdc members here it's come to be expected... if you didn't enter the thread by name calling and belittling people without fully understanding what your talking about maybe you would get honest answers just scroll up a bit and you will see.

You can add me to Skype and we can talk technicals away from the little trolls that make it hard to communicate effectively.. I'm sure we can then get on the same page. Just send me a pm.. David and I always on there anyways.

[dadon]

Yesterday I should of made my own thread...It was an error on my behalf and i admit that.
But.. I was only giving a friendly reminder that SDC market is on the way.

this was my first post in this thread.

Shadowmarket is coming..and there is a reason we have taken our time!   

and i got this reply from another member who was very friendly and this was the reply

Shadowmarket is coming..and there is a reason we have taken our time!   

Yeah... Good point , Dadon.
Haven't been following shadow lately. Can't say I agree with the goal of trying to create silkroad 2.0, but 'to each his own'. I believe in the long run, there a much bigger market for pursuing legitimate business which both BitBay and Syscoin are aiming at.

I know the anon approach probably creates the need for a lot more coding, which may I ask - how is the ring signature technology progressing?
You guys getting any closer to finalizing it?

Definitely lots of innovation out there to choose from for people from all aspects of life!

That was never our teams goal, out teams goal was to deliver the true vision of Satoshi as we believe it to be, a completely decentralized and private ( if you wish it to be) economic platform  made by the people for the people.
silkroad 2.0 was basically just a marketing headline by Vice's motherboard publication for an article they published on outr project and OB
P.S I really hope more people get behind SDC the team has really worked hard..just look at the passion and intelligence in the above post to catch a small glimpse inside the minds of our amazing dev team

Then i verbally abused him with this message because i am clearly a terrible human being unlike you.

Shadowmarket is coming..and there is a reason we have taken our time!   

Yeah... Good point , Dadon.
Haven't been following shadow lately. Can't say I agree with the goal of trying to create silkroad 2.0, but 'to each his own'. I believe in the long run, there a much bigger market for pursuing legitimate business which both BitBay and Syscoin are aiming at.

I know the anon approach probably creates the need for a lot more coding, which may I ask - how is the ring signature technology progressing?
You guys getting any closer to finalizing it?

Definitely lots of innovation out there to choose from for people from all aspects of life!

That was never our teams goal, out teams goal was to deliver the true vision of Satoshi as we believe it to be, a completely decentralized and private ( if you wish it to be) economic platform  made by the people for the people.
silkroad 2.0 was basically just a marketing headline by Vice's motherboard publication for an article they published on outr project and OB
P.S I really hope more people get behind SDC the team has really worked hard..just look at the passion and intelligence in the above post to catch a small glimpse inside the minds of our amazing dev team

this was then you interrupting our conversation.

SO obvious that SDC trolls would come in here and hijack the thread... first of all your pretty stupid if you are storing images on the blockchain... and SYS won't have any scaling issues in regards to storage OR bandwidth more than bitcoin itself... you can check out the dev branch and figure out why. Most of the guys points dont make any sense. DirectBTC was intentionally coded the way it was because of usability purposes.. once a better solution is available it will be easy to switch it (CLTV implementation won't be any better for users currently). Anyways keep the discussion between Sys and Bay, where it should belong... open your own thread if you want to compare SDC to Sys thanks.

How would p2p market offers "keep-alive"? you have to have channels of nodes that ping each other contiiously now multiple that with say 10k nodes that all have some kind of offer in the same channel...I'd say at some point the "keep-alive" model starst to breakdown whereas the blockchain model thrives... the "keep-alive" model may work for smaller to medium sized networks but I believe blockchain would serve a better model for large scale adoption, especially once something like LN arrives.

conclusion.
you cause trouble then claim victim status...more pathetic then manipulative..but manipulative none the less..please stop now..the evidence is clear

This is my last post in this tread sorry for hijacking it all but that wasn't my original intention..My intention was to point out there are other projects similar being worked on that don't get the attention they deserve..next time i will open my own thread..too easy too start drama in this very immature crypto community.

[sidhujag]

Yesterday I should of made my own thread...It was an error on my behalf and i admit that.
But.. I was only giving a friendly reminder that SDC market is on the way.

this was my first post in this thread.

Shadowmarket is coming..and there is a reason we have taken our time!   

and i got this reply from another member who was very friendly and this was the reply

Shadowmarket is coming..and there is a reason we have taken our time!   

Yeah... Good point , Dadon.
Haven't been following shadow lately. Can't say I agree with the goal of trying to create silkroad 2.0, but 'to each his own'. I believe in the long run, there a much bigger market for pursuing legitimate business which both BitBay and Syscoin are aiming at.

I know the anon approach probably creates the need for a lot more coding, which may I ask - how is the ring signature technology progressing?
You guys getting any closer to finalizing it?

Definitely lots of innovation out there to choose from for people from all aspects of life!

That was never our teams goal, out teams goal was to deliver the true vision of Satoshi as we believe it to be, a completely decentralized and private ( if you wish it to be) economic platform  made by the people for the people.
silkroad 2.0 was basically just a marketing headline by Vice's motherboard publication for an article they published on outr project and OB
P.S I really hope more people get behind SDC the team has really worked hard..just look at the passion and intelligence in the above post to catch a small glimpse inside the minds of our amazing dev team

Then i verbally abused him with this message because i am clearly a terrible human being unlike you.

Shadowmarket is coming..and there is a reason we have taken our time!   

Yeah... Good point , Dadon.
Haven't been following shadow lately. Can't say I agree with the goal of trying to create silkroad 2.0, but 'to each his own'. I believe in the long run, there a much bigger market for pursuing legitimate business which both BitBay and Syscoin are aiming at.

I know the anon approach probably creates the need for a lot more coding, which may I ask - how is the ring signature technology progressing?
You guys getting any closer to finalizing it?

Definitely lots of innovation out there to choose from for people from all aspects of life!

That was never our teams goal, out teams goal was to deliver the true vision of Satoshi as we believe it to be, a completely decentralized and private ( if you wish it to be) economic platform  made by the people for the people.
silkroad 2.0 was basically just a marketing headline by Vice's motherboard publication for an article they published on outr project and OB
P.S I really hope more people get behind SDC the team has really worked hard..just look at the passion and intelligence in the above post to catch a small glimpse inside the minds of our amazing dev team

this was then you interrupting our conversation.

SO obvious that SDC trolls would come in here and hijack the thread... first of all your pretty stupid if you are storing images on the blockchain... and SYS won't have any scaling issues in regards to storage OR bandwidth more than bitcoin itself... you can check out the dev branch and figure out why. Most of the guys points dont make any sense. DirectBTC was intentionally coded the way it was because of usability purposes.. once a better solution is available it will be easy to switch it (CLTV implementation won't be any better for users currently). Anyways keep the discussion between Sys and Bay, where it should belong... open your own thread if you want to compare SDC to Sys thanks.

How would p2p market offers "keep-alive"? you have to have channels of nodes that ping each other contiiously now multiple that with say 10k nodes that all have some kind of offer in the same channel...I'd say at some point the "keep-alive" model starst to breakdown whereas the blockchain model thrives... the "keep-alive" model may work for smaller to medium sized networks but I believe blockchain would serve a better model for large scale adoption, especially once something like LN arrives.

conclusion.
you cause trouble then claim victim status...more pathetic then manipulative..but manipulative none the less..please stop now..the evidence is clear

This is my last post in this tread sorry for hijacking it all but that wasn't my original intention..My intention was to point out there are other projects similar being worked on that don't get the attention they deserve..next time i will open my own thread..too easy too start drama in this very immature crypto community.

I called it out didn't I? You were quadruple posting with the long ass op in there on purpose and taking your bad day out on people here trying to have real conversations.. you should only look in the mirror for what went wrong and I perfectly predicted it would happen cause past may not repeat but it sure does rhyme.. only person immature is you dude get over it.. and I'd you had listened to me in the first place about a new thread instead of telling me to fuck off then you would look alot better now wouldn't you.. Instead I got you on ignore and I'm sure others do too. Cya

[dadon]

yeah after you attacked SDC personally i never said anything about whatever coins tech you hold you started this,
i never personally attacked or mentioned any other project but my own untill you started mouthing off..that is clear in the conversations i posted..
you don't own this thread! i am allowed to say something like " sdc market is on the way" like big deal! the other guy in the thread who commented didn't see a big deal with it.your the one who started getting aggressive..sorry if reacted in the way you wanted..that tends to happen when you stir shit and ask for trouble, by me mentioning sdc in a thread not attacking you or anyone one or project..mentioning sdc in a thread you don't.. own on the internet you don't control, does not grant you permission to start personally attacking projects and people and when you do, do that people have the right to do it back to you...
yes this conversation is over and will be the last i have with you..you now also join also my ignore list you are number #4 in almost 3 years here #benthatch #bobsurplus #someotherprick #you
welcome, enjoy your stay

[cryptohunter]

yeah after you attacked SDC personally i never said anything about whatever coins tech you hold you started this,
i never personally attacked or mentioned any other project but my own untill you started mouthing off..that is clear in the conversations i posted..
you don't own this thread! i am allowed to say something like " sdc market is on the way" like big deal! the other guy in the thread who commented didn't see a big deal with it.your the one who started getting aggressive..sorry if reacted in the way you wanted..that tends to happen when you stir shit and ask for trouble, by me mentioning sdc in a thread not attacking you or anyone one or project..mentioning sdc in a thread you don't.. own on the internet you don't control, does not grant you permission to start personally attacking projects and people and when you do, do that people have the right to do it back to you...

No you were the one to first attack bitbay (david) saying he was a fool and you would not be stupid enough to back a project with him leading it because he is obviously a fool for getting scammed in the ico out of his development funds.

Hence why you needed to experience some of your own medicine. Then you start crying yourself saying how disgusting the comments were.
Still you persist with your foolishness rather than to compare the projects as they are now.

[dadon]

no...

Yesterday I should of made my own thread...It was an error on my behalf and i admit that.
But.. I was only giving a friendly reminder that SDC market is on the way.

this was my first post in this thread.

Shadowmarket is coming..and there is a reason we have taken our time!  

and i got this reply from another member who was very friendly and this was the reply

Shadowmarket is coming..and there is a reason we have taken our time!  

Yeah... Good point , Dadon.
Haven't been following shadow lately. Can't say I agree with the goal of trying to create silkroad 2.0, but 'to each his own'. I believe in the long run, there a much bigger market for pursuing legitimate business which both BitBay and Syscoin are aiming at.

I know the anon approach probably creates the need for a lot more coding, which may I ask - how is the ring signature technology progressing?
You guys getting any closer to finalizing it?

Definitely lots of innovation out there to choose from for people from all aspects of life!

That was never our teams goal, out teams goal was to deliver the true vision of Satoshi as we believe it to be, a completely decentralized and private ( if you wish it to be) economic platform  made by the people for the people.
silkroad 2.0 was basically just a marketing headline by Vice's motherboard publication for an article they published on outr project and OB
P.S I really hope more people get behind SDC the team has really worked hard..just look at the passion and intelligence in the above post to catch a small glimpse inside the minds of our amazing dev team

Then i verbally abused him with this message because i am clearly a terrible human being unlike you.

Shadowmarket is coming..and there is a reason we have taken our time!  

Yeah... Good point , Dadon.
Haven't been following shadow lately. Can't say I agree with the goal of trying to create silkroad 2.0, but 'to each his own'. I believe in the long run, there a much bigger market for pursuing legitimate business which both BitBay and Syscoin are aiming at.

I know the anon approach probably creates the need for a lot more coding, which may I ask - how is the ring signature technology progressing?
You guys getting any closer to finalizing it?

Definitely lots of innovation out there to choose from for people from all aspects of life!

That was never our teams goal, out teams goal was to deliver the true vision of Satoshi as we believe it to be, a completely decentralized and private ( if you wish it to be) economic platform  made by the people for the people.
silkroad 2.0 was basically just a marketing headline by Vice's motherboard publication for an article they published on outr project and OB
P.S I really hope more people get behind SDC the team has really worked hard..just look at the passion and intelligence in the above post to catch a small glimpse inside the minds of our amazing dev team

this was then you interrupting our conversation.

SO obvious that SDC trolls would come in here and hijack the thread... first of all your pretty stupid if you are storing images on the blockchain... and SYS won't have any scaling issues in regards to storage OR bandwidth more than bitcoin itself... you can check out the dev branch and figure out why. Most of the guys points dont make any sense. DirectBTC was intentionally coded the way it was because of usability purposes.. once a better solution is available it will be easy to switch it (CLTV implementation won't be any better for users currently). Anyways keep the discussion between Sys and Bay, where it should belong... open your own thread if you want to compare SDC to Sys thanks.

How would p2p market offers "keep-alive"? you have to have channels of nodes that ping each other contiiously now multiple that with say 10k nodes that all have some kind of offer in the same channel...I'd say at some point the "keep-alive" model starst to breakdown whereas the blockchain model thrives... the "keep-alive" model may work for smaller to medium sized networks but I believe blockchain would serve a better model for large scale adoption, especially once something like LN arrives.

SO obvious that SDC trolls would come in here and hijack the thread... first of all your pretty stupid if you are storing images on the blockchain... and SYS won't have any scaling issues in regards to storage OR bandwidth... you can check out the dev branch and figure out why. Most of the guys points done make any sense. DirectBTC was intentionally coded the way it was because of usability purposes.. once a better solution is available it will be easy to switch it (CLTV implementation won't be any better for users currently). Anyways keep the discussion between Sys and Bay, where it should belong... open your own thread if you want to compare SDC to Sys thanks.

we didn't hijack this thread! all legitimate projects deserve recognition don't they? so tell me please when everything about the sdc project has been not only fair but also extremely productive...why don't we get to be compared also?...shouldn't be a problem since the only legitmate competition to SYS is OB..right?

Not gonna get into it on this thread but SDC is off the radar for me after recent events aswell as my experience with their community.. i know others share similar experiences. Lets stick to bay and sys plz last time I ask, otherwise I fail to participate in any healthy debates. Make a new thread.

Is whaleshark one of your puppet accounts or did he start the thread if he did.. not your call please hold your silence or shut the fuck up because the discussion is going to happen with or without your motherfucking blessing because this is not your thread and this is the fucking internet not north korea! don't tell me where i can discuss anything! sdc relates to these two projects and the OP was comparing the two projects because obviously he was intending on investing! so he is has the right to learn about other projects that may or may not offer more then the two already discuseed..stop trying to censor me got it! this isn't your thread, this isn't your world..open discussions are aloud, crypto was invented to take power away from people just like YOU who want to control everything to suit their agenda...not going to happen

Just for the record my seconf message on this thread was going to be my last i had no intention of attacking any projects personally but i live in a society where if people personally attack you, you don't just accept it and move on.



That's how the conversation went if you read back like 2 pages it's clearly evident that i was causing no trouble till he mouthed off and so did you! so welcome #5 also enjoy your stay

[dzimbeck]

Yes but he did apologize for attacking Bitbay. I can understand how some people didn't know about the details of bobsurplus and bter/Steven. He could have very well simply not known or taken the time to read what the news said etc.

As for the rest of the FUD, it actually made me laugh. I suppose it's just one of those things, you gotta laugh at life, and (insert meme here)

Anyways kewde if you want you can post here with your own comparisons of SDC market to sys/bay and its prospective features. This is tech talk. It's all good. I already know some of your advantages, don't be shy to talk about them. Or if you prefer away from trolls like Sid said I'm on Skype... Guess my super anonymous name there. The NSA will never discover my Skype name muahahaha.

By the way, earlier Sid brought up open source. Not sure if I already mentioned this but you can download the HaloOBF.zip package and build it. You can verify that it doesn't do anything evil. There is no servers and you can also build my Bitmessage from that package too. There is only two burn addresses in it The BitcoinEater and BitCoinEaterAdios base58 hash for Blackcoin. I have been meaning to just use 6a but that is very low hanging fruit. Oh and there is a donation address which I should change to two pubkeys instead of a set address so the magic byte is different for each multisig (in case I do DogeHalo)

So the source can actually be audited as long as you can tolerate obfuscated variables. SoFashionVeryCrypto99 or FindTheVWinAPrize321GOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWVWWWWWWWW or DorianOnTheMoonSuch

Kewde if VeritasBS is still there ask him about when he tried to reverse engineer my python for some laughs.

FYI speaking of breaks, I'm on vacation this week sort of repairing my truck and hanging out at the beach in Mexico.

[sebastien1234]

no...

Yesterday I should of made my own thread...It was an error on my behalf and i admit that.
But.. I was only giving a friendly reminder that SDC market is on the way.

this was my first post in this thread.

Shadowmarket is coming..and there is a reason we have taken our time!  

and i got this reply from another member who was very friendly and this was the reply

Shadowmarket is coming..and there is a reason we have taken our time!  

Yeah... Good point , Dadon.
Haven't been following shadow lately. Can't say I agree with the goal of trying to create silkroad 2.0, but 'to each his own'. I believe in the long run, there a much bigger market for pursuing legitimate business which both BitBay and Syscoin are aiming at.

I know the anon approach probably creates the need for a lot more coding, which may I ask - how is the ring signature technology progressing?
You guys getting any closer to finalizing it?

Definitely lots of innovation out there to choose from for people from all aspects of life!

That was never our teams goal, out teams goal was to deliver the true vision of Satoshi as we believe it to be, a completely decentralized and private ( if you wish it to be) economic platform  made by the people for the people.
silkroad 2.0 was basically just a marketing headline by Vice's motherboard publication for an article they published on outr project and OB
P.S I really hope more people get behind SDC the team has really worked hard..just look at the passion and intelligence in the above post to catch a small glimpse inside the minds of our amazing dev team

Then i verbally abused him with this message because i am clearly a terrible human being unlike you.

Shadowmarket is coming..and there is a reason we have taken our time!  

Yeah... Good point , Dadon.
Haven't been following shadow lately. Can't say I agree with the goal of trying to create silkroad 2.0, but 'to each his own'. I believe in the long run, there a much bigger market for pursuing legitimate business which both BitBay and Syscoin are aiming at.

I know the anon approach probably creates the need for a lot more coding, which may I ask - how is the ring signature technology progressing?
You guys getting any closer to finalizing it?

Definitely lots of innovation out there to choose from for people from all aspects of life!

That was never our teams goal, out teams goal was to deliver the true vision of Satoshi as we believe it to be, a completely decentralized and private ( if you wish it to be) economic platform  made by the people for the people.
silkroad 2.0 was basically just a marketing headline by Vice's motherboard publication for an article they published on outr project and OB
P.S I really hope more people get behind SDC the team has really worked hard..just look at the passion and intelligence in the above post to catch a small glimpse inside the minds of our amazing dev team

this was then you interrupting our conversation.

SO obvious that SDC trolls would come in here and hijack the thread... first of all your pretty stupid if you are storing images on the blockchain... and SYS won't have any scaling issues in regards to storage OR bandwidth more than bitcoin itself... you can check out the dev branch and figure out why. Most of the guys points dont make any sense. DirectBTC was intentionally coded the way it was because of usability purposes.. once a better solution is available it will be easy to switch it (CLTV implementation won't be any better for users currently). Anyways keep the discussion between Sys and Bay, where it should belong... open your own thread if you want to compare SDC to Sys thanks.

How would p2p market offers "keep-alive"? you have to have channels of nodes that ping each other contiiously now multiple that with say 10k nodes that all have some kind of offer in the same channel...I'd say at some point the "keep-alive" model starst to breakdown whereas the blockchain model thrives... the "keep-alive" model may work for smaller to medium sized networks but I believe blockchain would serve a better model for large scale adoption, especially once something like LN arrives.

SO obvious that SDC trolls would come in here and hijack the thread... first of all your pretty stupid if you are storing images on the blockchain... and SYS won't have any scaling issues in regards to storage OR bandwidth... you can check out the dev branch and figure out why. Most of the guys points done make any sense. DirectBTC was intentionally coded the way it was because of usability purposes.. once a better solution is available it will be easy to switch it (CLTV implementation won't be any better for users currently). Anyways keep the discussion between Sys and Bay, where it should belong... open your own thread if you want to compare SDC to Sys thanks.

we didn't hijack this thread! all legitimate projects deserve recognition don't they? so tell me please when everything about the sdc project has been not only fair but also extremely productive...why don't we get to be compared also?...shouldn't be a problem since the only legitmate competition to SYS is OB..right?

Not gonna get into it on this thread but SDC is off the radar for me after recent events aswell as my experience with their community.. i know others share similar experiences. Lets stick to bay and sys plz last time I ask, otherwise I fail to participate in any healthy debates. Make a new thread.

Is whaleshark one of your puppet accounts or did he start the thread if he did.. not your call please hold your silence or shut the fuck up because the discussion is going to happen with or without your motherfucking blessing because this is not your thread and this is the fucking internet not north korea! don't tell me where i can discuss anything! sdc relates to these two projects and the OP was comparing the two projects because obviously he was intending on investing! so he is has the right to learn about other projects that may or may not offer more then the two already discuseed..stop trying to censor me got it! this isn't your thread, this isn't your world..open discussions are aloud, crypto was invented to take power away from people just like YOU who want to control everything to suit their agenda...not going to happen

Just for the record my seconf message on this thread was going to be my last i had no intention of attacking any projects personally but i live in a society where if people personally attack you, you don't just accept it and move on.



That's how the conversation went if you read back like 2 pages it's clearly evident that i was causing no trouble till he mouthed off and so did you! so welcome #5 also enjoy your stay

You are right, you did not start the abrasive comments, Kewde however, did. This was exactly what Sidhujag was referring to, if representatives of your community cannot converse in a civilized manner then I'm afraid your cause is lost. As much as some valid questions he may have had, he completely closed the door to conversation by being insulting:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1456464.msg14860563#msg14860563

Then as sidhujag mentioned, you highjack the thread by replying to each other and posting the entire ann thread of SDC (which is now removed).

[dzimbeck]

Sebastian1234  thanks for linking kewdes comment, I want to reply to a ceaveat on that.

Kewde says Bitbay requires 100% double deposit. It does not! There is CUSTOM deposit options right in the templates AND a reputation system.

Custom deposits can be anything you want. Also you can have guarantor contracts where only one side deposits.

And escrow in crypto must be double deposit or else arbiters can collude and steal 100% of the escrow as 2 of 3 keys they only need to enter into the contract secretly as buyer or sell to steal.

So double deposit is a MUST unless you want to get robbed.

Yeah  I'm sure there is a few honest arbiters but there is no way in hell I would encourage 2 of 3 with anonymous markets where they can steal with impunity. And no amount of debate will change my mind here.


I know SDC is also going a double deposit route, which I'm excited to see that completed and would be interested to see how they handle the user experience different from how we did.

[Nxtblg]

Here is to the future of BitBay!
Buddy just accepted my contract to counter my bet that the EUR/USD will go up in value by 1% before Friday close of fiat market. As far as I know this is the first such transaction/contract of this kind for crypto!

Nice! And totally different from the use-case class I was expecting.

How'd the double-deposit escrow work for you?

[Munti]

Syscoin's decentralized marketplace is already in production

Its open source

Its blockchain based and not P2P (ever try to use torrents on a cellphone? Ouch)

Escrow does not require parties to double deposit(think real world here, would a store and customer ever accept to double deposit?).

Since Sys is already fully functioning, we have honestly stopped comparing ourselves to roadmap projects and instead are concentrating on the only "competition" out there: OpenBazaar



Good luck though, we respect all efforts towards decentralization.

What? I mean syscoin is great but surely Bitbay is better?  or am I wrong?

Is being blockchain based actually workable with this kind of thing? I mean if syscoin got any real user base would it not just start consuming enormous resources/space? how big will the block chain end up being?

I am a fan of bitbay but I have some sys too. From what I can tell Bitbay seems a way better way of doing things. However, I would love to see a full on comparison between the two with technical analysis that layman can understand.

Seems sys could never scale to any real world usage? or could it?

Isn't sys just a copy of what bitbay first set out to be?

I don't really think this thread is the best way to highlight these projects but still if a comparison must be made I would like to hear the facts from a tech pov not from just investors.  I'm merely and investor in both (more in bitbay ) but when last I was asking for some comparisons between them I got the notion bitbay was clearly built for scaling better for real world usage.

Syscoin tbh seemed to me to be a bit of a bitbay copycat coin that didn't think it out quite so well (this could be proven to be incorrect let's wait and see). However, congratulations for how quickly it was coded out.

Hello,

I thought I'd chime in the dicussion, we at Shadow love seeing good debate intertwined with the right amount of anger. I owe you a word of explanation before I start taking a piss at everyone.
First things first, when people from both sides of two or more projects get in a heavy debate, they are merely defending what they have created. Their own blood, sweat, tears and spirit went into creating it, so they will defend that without giving up. I think it is important to recognize that most of us here have dedicated quite some time to either project and that knowing that fact should be the basis for mutual respect. Well, I respect it, you can feel whatever you want.

Nonetheless, this shouldn't be used as reason not to criticize the other for their bullshit.

To start off, sebastien1234 I hope you are either drunk or high on meth when you typed that. If what you've said (read quote) is your true opinion, I advice you to withdraw from this forum and to never come back. You're in charge of the PR, so I've read, stick to it and don't ever get mixed in technical discussions until you are 100% sure about what you're saying.

Its blockchain based and not P2P (ever try to use torrents on a cellphone? Ouch)

This is first class bullshit right here people. A blockchain is distributed in a P2P fashion, so by that simple analogy your argument is destroyed.
A blockchain would require you to fully synced before you can participate in any trading, meaning P2P like torrents would actually be a faster system by MAGNITUDES.
I don't know if you're from some country that has never heard of Quadcore smartphones and internet speeds that exceed 100Mb/s but torrents on a cellphone are pretty darn fast, just as fast as a computer.

Escrow does not require parties to double deposit(think real world here, would a store and customer ever accept to double deposit?).
Again, it is clear that your knowledge on double deposits doesn't reach that far. If I remember correctly, BitBay uses a model of FULL double deposits, so you have to put up 100% as insurance. In a real world model that wouldn't even be necessary, an insurance deposit ranging of 10% to 20% should be enough to keep scammers out. The economics behind this find their roots in game theory, something which I won't bother to explain. But you need to keep account of the loss of cash flow that a scammer encounters, even with a 10% insurance deposit, the scammer will run out of funds.

You're a good guy, but don't give people like me a chance to publicly ruin your credibility of the technical understanding. Bad for you own PR, just my two cents.


Is being blockchain based actually workable with this kind of thing? I mean if syscoin got any real user base would it not just start consuming enormous resources/space? how big will the block chain end up being?
That's a very good question, we at Shadow have been crunching the numbers for our own system. You definetly need pruning, does SYS do this?

Without pruning, obviously not. Even our system which only stores listing by default for 48 hours has problems with this when we check the numbers.
A simple scaling check shows that blockchain based listings don't scale. Say you have about 10,000 listings with each about 3 pictures on average with a 200KB, and I'm being optimistic because I truely hope sys is "downgrading" the images, because it is more likely to be in the range of 7.46MB if they don't.
10 000 * 200 KB = 2GB of data at a given moment.

Now 10 000 listings can easily be made by less than a thousand merchants, so no sys probably will not scale. Disregard anyone trying to convince you otherwise, anyone trying to should do it by crunching the numbers like I did.

There are ways of mitigating these problems, but by using blockchain tech (every node must store everything) their only way out of scaling issues is by inventing a lite mode.
They have worked themselves in a corner by the blockchain, one which I doubt will ever scale to a wider angle.


Seems sys could never scale to any real world usage? or could it?
Bitcoin can't even do that, so you can't demand that syscoin pulls it off.


I haven't even gotten to my own critique to sys, mostly being their attitude towards "getting the job done, even if it involves leaving out core principles".
Their DirectBTC feature makes use of centralized components and don't even make a fair mention of being that way, pretty bad when you're promoting blockchain tech. It's feasable to do it in a decentralized manner, but they decided to rush it.

Don't get me started on the privacy issues of sys, you'll just blame me for shilling ShadowCash.

Lovely chat ol' chaps.
Keep on working on what you love as long as it makes you happy. Make sure you stay healthy and don't risk running into a burn out, it ain't easy for open source devs.
Everyone gets shitload of critique, but when you're working so hard for free, it can get heavy on your mental health.

Greetings,
Kewde

I don't know game theory. Can you please elaborate on that? Why would 10% deposits be enough?

[Kewde]

I'm not at all surprised at the trolling behavior of sdc members here it's come to be expected... if you didn't enter the thread by name calling and belittling people without fully understanding what your talking about maybe you would get honest answers just scroll up a bit and you will see.

You can add me to Skype and we can talk technicals away from the little trolls that make it hard to communicate effectively.. I'm sure we can then get on the same page. Just send me a pm.. David and I always on there anyways.

If anyone wasn't fully understanding anything it was sebastien1234.

I also never entered the thread with "name calling and belittling", I wrote a technical post giving critique on one of the members of your team and the system itself, with a humorous undertone to make it more of a light read.

I'll spare you the effort and sum them up again.
"sebastien1234 I hope you are either drunk or high on meth when you typed that"
"bullshit"
"stick to PR"

If you can't handle a silly joke and some serious critique towards incompetence, then that's your problem but don't put the blame on me for your own personal issues.

Before and after the post I've expressed my respect towards your dedication and efforts, yet somehow all of you seem to stick to your game plan to act like I came in like a wrecking ball screaming and fudding.

I'm not defending what any other members have done or said here, but you can't just project those feelings of hatred towards a whole project when in fact it was a single individual.
By definition that is discrimination, and it is as bad as being a racist.

You are right, you did not start the abrasive comments, Kewde however, did. This was exactly what Sidhujag was referring to, if representatives of your community cannot converse in a civilized manner then I'm afraid your cause is lost. As much as some valid questions he may have had, he completely closed the door to conversation by being insulting:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1456464.msg14860563#msg14860563

Then as sidhujag mentioned, you highjack the thread by replying to each other and posting the entire ann thread of SDC (which is now removed).

My comments were civilized by the standards of Bitcointalk, you were just wrong on so many points that you had nothing to come back with.
If you categorize my "funny" comments as insulting than so be it, but I'd rather believe the above^.

It still ponders me how you could make such a mischievous statements. My first reaction was that you knew what you were saying was wrong (because it obviously was for anyone with a bit of a technical background), but you don't mind lying to get an advantage by using fallacies. The thread starter explicitly mentioned that he was a newbie, thus I was a bit fueled by rage.

I don't know game theory. Can you please elaborate on that? Why would 10% deposits be enough?

Everyone (but mostly companies) have a cash flow, which is the amount of money coming in versus the amount going out.
You want to have a positive CF, more flowing in than out.

So when you put 10% of money "locked" down that means you can't use it for other purposes like paying bills or buying new stock.
Locking 10% makes you lose x% of possible profit. Basically they you have a leverage: for every 10USD you have you can turn it into 11USD in for example a week.
Well if you try to scam someone and they lock the funds for anything longer than 10 weeks you are now losing possible profit.
You've scammed yourself

Obviously this only works if the other party is adamant enought to not release the funds to safe his own cash flow.
It all depends on who has the highest leverage (biggest profit margin) which is obviously the seller.

[Munti]

I don't know game theory. Can you please elaborate on that? Why would 10% deposits be enough?

Everyone (but mostly companies) have a cash flow, which is the amount of money coming in versus the amount going out.
You want to have a positive CF, more flowing in than out.

So when you put 10% of money "locked" down that means you can't use it for other purposes like paying bills or buying new stock.
Locking 10% makes you lose x% of possible profit. Basically they you have a leverage: for every 10USD you have you can turn it into 11USD in for example a week.
Well if you try to scam someone and they lock the funds for anything longer than 10 weeks you are now losing possible profit.
You've scammed yourself

Obviously this only works if the other party is adamant enought to not release the funds to safe his own cash flow.
It all depends on who has the highest leverage (biggest profit margin) which is obviously the seller.

I see your point and its a valid one.
I guess the problem would be to educate the scammers in game theory before they go broke 

[dzimbeck]

To elaborate on 10% deposits...

If you do let's say a basic sales contract, seller puts 10% to prevent extortion attack and the buyer advances the payment he would have made anyways thus it works identical to double deposit.

Example

Guitar 1btc
Seller advances .1 btc
Buyer advances 1(payment) and .1 btc

Thus when Guitar is sent buyer must unlock funds or pay 10% extra.

Why would buyer pay 10% more since he loses funds doing so (he pays 1.1 instead of 1) so he would only perform this attack out of spite.

When you combine with a reputation system as we have in Bitbay then those deposits make sense for seasoned buyers and sellers who are low risk of being self destructive


In the case of the seller he can extort easier here with more leverage at 10 to 1. But still, extortion may not pay. Communication can be limited(we have this as an option) and we don't allow partial payments out of escrow. So honestly not only would it again wreck reputation but probably not pay off.

Regardless, the fact that we don't want to give the seller or buyer leverage is why the recommended deposits are equal to the value.

And honestly, people usually have funds to cover their daily volume. And it's worth it of course because it eliminates the courts and eliminates theft from existence

[Kewde]

To elaborate on 10% deposits...

If you do let's say a basic sales contract, seller puts 10% to prevent extortion attack and the buyer advances the payment he would have made anyways thus it works identical to double deposit.

Example

Guitar 1btc
Seller advances .1 btc
Buyer advances 1(payment) and .1 btc

Thus when Guitar is sent buyer must unlock funds or pay 10% extra.

Why would buyer pay 10% more since he loses funds doing so (he pays 1.1 instead of 1) so he would only perform this attack out of spite.

When you combine with a reputation system as we have in Bitbay then those deposits make sense for seasoned buyers and sellers who are low risk of being self destructive


In the case of the seller he can extort easier here with more leverage at 10 to 1. But still, extortion may not pay. Communication can be limited(we have this as an option) and we don't allow partial payments out of escrow. So honestly not only would it again wreck reputation but probably not pay off.

Regardless, the fact that we don't want to give the seller or buyer leverage is why the recommended deposits are equal to the value.

And honestly, people usually have funds to cover their daily volume. And it's worth it of course because it eliminates the courts and eliminates theft from existence

we don't allow partial payments out of escrow.

I had an idea about this and don't think refunding is a bad thing, but the trick is adding risk to it.
The initial escrow should never be paid out partially but both parties could make a new transaction, again with an added risk/insurance deposit.

The only problem with 10% double deposit escrow is a vendor scam, where the seller does not send the goods and risks 10%.
You can play the chicken game, if there is an issue both parties can agree to up the stakes to 100% instead of 10%.