Bitcoin IS basically DESTROYED

[mtnsaa]

I really don't care because I agree with you and many of us still don't sell our Bitcoins because if it goes mainstream in China or even a little popular, we'll be all rich/millionaires. The whole idealistic anarco utopia many still think Bitcoin is long dead, that's why Ethereum and other cool projects are emerging (even if they end up having the same fate eventually).

[1714105811]

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[davinchi]

So if China owns a large portion of the system, we're doomed? But what if bitcoins are centralized in America or in Europe? It's going to be an entire story, right? I mean, once again western power has an influence to this point.

[youyou_]

So if China owns a large portion of the system, we're doomed? But what if bitcoins are centralized in America or in Europe? It's going to be an entire story, right? I mean, once again western power has an influence to this point.

Why would it make a differene if btc is centralized in Us or UE instead of China?

[27QVUTZj8rgZP1]

China being China. I do not see a problem here.

Anyone with a basic brain could predict this would happen. Go, go, China!

[PapoXxX]

i think that bitcoin its only the start point, when the times comes the digital currency will create the next sucesor altcoin

[enhu]

It's become popular to point at centralization in china as justification of introducing new coins. If any coin becomes popular enough to warrant investment by the chinese they are willing to invest in that too. So to use this as an excuse or justification is somewhat meaningless. Any coin ends up in the wallets of the willing. Basically just a marketing tactic.

Yep satoshi didn't saw this coming.
Its natural for the Chinese to get every penny from the internet. if they have controlled bitcoin, I'm not going to be suprise if they can also do this to ETH and the rest of the coins that are coming. It seem like China is out to control the world.

[BitFomo]

Better than having the americans controlling mining.

[Cryddit]

.... with their cheap electricity they are earning a shitload of money...

What you mean is they're stealing a shitload of money. 

Taxpayer money converted into electricity by government-owned power utility.

Electricity converted into bitcoin and bitcoin into privatized money by miners.

In China bitcoin mining is essentially just a channel to steal tax money.  The fact that it hasn't been forced to shut down or use non-subsidized electricity by now is probably evidence that someone is taking bribes.  (What a surprise!  That NEVER happens in China!   )

[Cryddit]

What says to me that something is wrong isn't that the mining is being done in China.  After all, in China you get taxpayer money for converting electricity to Bitcoin so that was just going to happen. 

What says to me that something is wrong, is that >90% of the Chinese mining, while technically distributed through three pools, is all happening in the same data center, on machines owned by the same business interest.

[BitcoinSupremo]

It is rather good for Bitcoin, if a lot of people in China have some bitcoins, it means they want to try to bring it mainstream which we all want such a thing, the price will go higher and higher and Chinese will be rich, but I don't care about that. I dont think they will destroy bitcoin the most beautiful project in the internet for me. I only hope in a higher usage of bitcoin of many many online e commerce sites as this would be the greatest victory for bitcoin.

China, USA or even Zimbabwe having the largest share of hash power does not concern me at all, what it should concern us all is how they intend to promote bitcoin in higher usability which will benefit us all in the end.

[fenican]

Originally BTC mining was supposed to be wildly democratic so that anyone with a PC could mine and, with millions mining, it would be difficult for any large entity to acquire enough horsepower to overcome the masses.

Unfortunately, the hashing algorithm Bitcoin used for proof of work was easily translated to hardware so instead of a large democracy of people mining using their at-home hardware we have a few large geographically centered (China) mining consortiums controlling 80%+ of the mining. Right now it is China but a US organization could certainly take over.

The problem actually started with GPU mining since very few users had a GPU powerful enough to mine coins. This dramatically constrained the possible pool of miners. With specialized ASICS mining, it has gotten much worse.

Really need a mining algorithm that can't easily be accelerated by GPU's or custom chips.

[NorrisK]

So the world is basiscally destoryed as well because China is producing the majority of all the products that we use in our daily lifes?

I don't care if China controls most of the mining market, if people do care about that, they can purchase the mining power and start mining. The problems is that it is much cheaper to do in China, so I expect that mining will even be outsourced to China and other Asian countries to save costs.

China is unstoppable on a lot of things and will rise to become even bigger than it is now. Numbers alone are in their favor, with 5-6 times the amount of people living there.

[cpfreeplz]

You do realise that 'China' isn't one person / organization right? I know people feel threatened by China but it's still decentralized. If they all start merging then that's another story.

[Amph]

.... with their cheap electricity they are earning a shitload of money...

What you mean is they're stealing a shitload of money. 

Taxpayer money converted into electricity by government-owned power utility.

Electricity converted into bitcoin and bitcoin into privatized money by miners.

In China bitcoin mining is essentially just a channel to steal tax money.  The fact that it hasn't been forced to shut down or use non-subsidized electricity by now is probably evidence that someone is taking bribes.  (What a surprise!  That NEVER happens in China!   )

well good for them if they are able to steal unfair and legal scam from government, called tax

[27QVUTZj8rgZP1]

how is that centralised? there's over a billion chinese  

if 70% of the mining was from the USA most of you wouldn't be prattling on about it being centralised.

I think they are just jealous, because they cannot grow at China's pace.

CRY!!! 

[cpfreeplz]

Please re-read my upthread post as I added so much to it. I am writing on behalf of TPTB_need_war who is quoted in the opening post and who is currently banned for 9 more days.

I will delete this post. Please quote my upthread post, so readers won't forget to read it.

Lol ban evasion? Tisk tisk. Keep your posts in Meta or the ban will be longer bruh . I wouldn't suggest continuing posting outside of Meta at all, on any account.

[Blacula X]

^^Wow, you're a real rat, aren't you?

Here's the quote from a quite appropriately named 'sockpuppet1' account posting on behalf of TPTB_need_war. It look like ban evasion to me. Am I right?

Please re-read my upthread post as I added so much to it. I am writing on behalf of TPTB_need_war who is quoted in the opening post and who is currently banned for 9 more days.

I will delete this post. Please quote my upthread post, so readers won't forget to read it.

[sockpuppet1]

Please re-read my upthread post as I added so much to it. I am writing on behalf of TPTB_need_war who is quoted in the opening post and who is currently banned for 9 more days.

I will delete this post. Please quote my upthread post, so readers won't forget to read it.

Lol ban evasion? Tisk tisk. Keep your posts in Meta or the ban will be longer bruh . I wouldn't suggest continuing posting outside of Meta at all, on any account.

"Tsk. Tsk" are the words I expect to hear from your grandmother calling you to have your daily scolding. I don't cowtail to theymos' delusions, technical incompetence, and censorship.

If I may express some frustration w.r.t. to desire to troll and censor, "Fuck you and theymos too". TPTB_need_war doesn't care. He can always subvert any ban.

Any way, TPTB_need_war is too busy programming. He has provided a public service.

And yes he was banned for revealing a potential back door in Bitcoin[1]. Just goes to show how theymos and gmaxwell are protecting you.

And yourself, how about you grow up and learn to tolerate open dialogue.

P.S. permanently banning TPTB_need_war is perfect for his plans. I hope theymos has the balls and the technical knowledge to attempt it.

Also I didn't start this thread. I didn't ask for this thread. I wasn't intending to post in this subforum at this time. Blame the person who created this thread. I read so much misunderstanding and slander of TPTB_need_war that required clarification and correction.


[1] In the ban message and in theymos's private message which is quoted by TPTP_need_war, theymos indicated the reason for the ban in addition to his incorrect claim of spouting technical nonsense, he also alleged spamming of messages in several threads and the ad hominem attacks against others. Theymos appears to be protecting Foxpop who hurled ad hominemfirst, and CIYAM who also hurled ad hominem first. TPTB_need_war had stated that the reason for posting in numerous threads, is because the mods allowed people to make numerous duplicate threads on the same topic about Craig Wright claiming to be Satoshi Nakamoto. Do take note that at the time he was having the debate with CIYAM, he had thought that Craig's signature had matched the hash of the Sartre text because he was misled by sloppy reporting and sloppy writing of those who did the technical analysis. It was only later that he learned that was not the case. And after all, his alleged back door in Bitcoin remains potentially true. You don't ban people for these incorrect reasons and expect to remain respected and expect others to not want to overcome inappropriate use of influence. There is too much ignonymous influence in Bitcoin.

...absolutely petrifying.   

You did it to yourselves. Now you will reap what you have sown.

I am an American who doesn't share your looney European Marxism. Last time it was a million in the gas chambers. Let's see how it goes this round.

Shut up and get back to work on building your copy-leftist clusterfuck.

I don't associate with scum like you. I compete and overcome. Bye. Unless that is you want to say those words about my kids to my face. Otherwise we have nothing more to discuss. Enjoy your life.

[Yakamoto]

Even though a country holds a large portion of the mining power, it doesn't mean it is destroyed, it just means there are a lot of people who are interested in it there, and have the money to invest in new hardware.

Also, it seems a bit melodramatic to say "they're going to have 98+%", even though they have a significant portion right now. A country having mining power doesn't mean they control it lol. As I said, it just means there are people there with money, and not all of them are interested in following orders.

[AlexGR]

USA can dominate the Bitcoin Beanie Babies scene tomorrow... They just have to shift a small percentage of their war funding to Bitcoin mining Beanie Babies production and focus Silicon valley

development on ASIC chip Beanie Babies manufacturing and they can dominate the scene. You chose your own battles...  

FTFY. US government is not going to subsidize electricity to make a few guys rich when they turn it back into heat

They don't need to subsidize anything. Just sell superior hardware. Those that have access to cheap electricity will figure out the rest.

So this superior hardware will go to China? How will this affect centralization??
If shovels are made in New York, would you pan for gold in Manhattan?

We don't have to theorize on what would happen. GPU mining, for example, never became centralized in China despite the lower electric costs there.

Of course we have to theorize, otherwise this is a pointless conversation.
GPU mining was never centralized in China because Bitcoin's market cap was laughably small, because the power consumed was a fraction of the rig's cost, because people mining were weirdo hobbyists like me, who ran FurMark as an alternative, and because buying BTC directly was always more profitable.
Please.

1. GPU mining for bitcoins is alive and well. But it has to be done indirectly, through altcoins. GPU =>altcoin=>bitcoin, voila!

2. GPU miners are different than ASIC miners in that you can resell the hardware (PCs, CPUs, RAMs + the GPUs themselves) after a few years and get something back or even repurpose the systems for something else. It has even less CAPEX if you start with used hardware. Obviously, buying older GPU hardware is not the same in terms of speed and power efficiency but people with subsidized power wouldn't care that much, would they? (Kind of like saying that no matter how slow the mining hardware is, it can still be profitable with extremely cheap or free electricity)

Still, it ain't happening (China centralization of GPUs).

What the west lacks, is access to cheap and fast ASIC equipment. There are people who can run mining hardware for free (flat electricity bill) or very cheaply for various reasons related to their power setup, location, etc etc, yet they don't have access to cheap and fast ASICs. Theoretically they can use older hardware and still be profitable, but in the grander scheme of things, they will not represent a significant percentage of the hashrate pie while using outdated hardware. The situation would be different if there was cheap access to efficient ASIC hardware for westerners, provided by western chip industries. The situation where mining companies keep their miners for themselves and simply create farms, or sell to outsiders with very big profits, is creating mining asymmetries.