Bitcoin IS basically DESTROYED

[pawel7777]

Why would the fact that China is basically controlling mining do anything to Bitcoin?

The whole concept of bitcoin was based around decentralization.

If China controlls a large % of the hash power then it would only take the collaboration of a few to hit the dreaded 51% control point

why they should destroy their own business? 51% will never happen, with their cheap electricity they are earning a shitload of money...

There's another downside of it. Chinese gov could easily take control over (vast) majority of hashing power (or shut just shut it down) if they only wanted to for whatever reason. It would require minor operations and, unlike western countries, they wouldn't even have to justify it (search for legal grounds etc).

It's bit weird how many people are accusing others of being CIA/NSA agents and of trying to take control over Bitcoin, but refuse to see big, Chinese elephant in the room.

[Blacula X]

...
No, I'm pretty sure even people in the US should be recognising this as the toxic, paranoid, prejudiced, xenophobic drivel it is.  I can assure you I feel no non-American angst, nor am I attempting to instil it in others.  You can't rationally claim that a certain group of people within a set border are a problem whilst also stating that geographic location is irrelevant.  Unless, y'know, you're insane, which I'm not ruling out as a possibility.

Don't particularly care about this guy's sanity, but sure, he can state that "a certain group of people within a set border are a problem whilst also stating that geographic location is irrelevant." He'd be right, too

Great to read you have an IQ higher than 115 and some logic skills.

The few posters with a brain stem, prevent the thread from being turned into a disinformation campaign by those who are either of only average intelligence (thus not adroit with logic) or those intentionally disingenuous trolls. Which classification do you reckon applies to DooMAD?

Also, fun fact, not everyone in China is a communist, you stereotyping screwball.

Did he suggest that all Chinese were Communists?

DooMAD and others build strawman arguments based on claims I never made. That is the typical behavior of an idiot who isn't adroit with logic and/or a disingenuous troll.

In fact, I wrote upthread that China's ideological revolution has starved some 57 million peasants to death, because the Communist Party fucked up the mechanisms of agriculture. That means I am not implicating all the Chinese people. In fact, at least 1.5 million Chinese were executed during the 1960s purge because they refused to declare allegiance to communism.

However, it is a fact that many Chinese have a predisposition to favor top-down control. In fact one of the key members of the Chinese Bitcoin miners cartel recently admitted that in a direct quote. I don't have time to dig it up, but perhaps one of you can.

I am not blaming the problem of Bitcoin's centralization on China. The centralization is unavoidable due to the flaw in the economic design of Satoshi's profitable proof-of-work. It centralizes and eventually becomes a fiat, by-design. Satoshi (knowingly or not) designed it to do that.

It just so happens that China is a very conducive place to form an oligarchy, because the Chinese economy is largely overlorded by oligarchies. China has nearly always throughout its history had a culture of warlordism.

I don't hate Chinese people. China and Singapore are rising and will be the new financial capital of the world by 2033, taking that role away from New York and London respectively.

I am just speaking factually. Every culture+society has its attributes and we shouldn't be afraid to speak the reality.

But why? China has nationalized the means of production in the past, that's pretty much the core tenet of Communism.
Are you saying that's not a concern, or that you simply don't like the word "Communism"? I'm a bit irked by the "Fascist" bit, but Communism is pertinent, especially with China flipflopping all over the place re. legality of Bitcoin itself.

What part about corporate-fascism irked you? Do you think I am predicting a return to Nazi holocaust?

Examples of corporate fascism include for example how this absolute lie and propaganda of man-made climate change (as opposed to environmental destruction which is a scientifically unrelated issue) was foisted on the world so that for example Obama could shut down the coal electrical generation plants who are not his cronies and award carbox tax exclusions to his cronies:

But what is more interesting to me is your generation is so ideologically preoccupied. Perhaps you believe in the lie of anthropogenic global warming as well. I hate to bust your bubble but it was a propaganda constructed to put in a place a global governance and taxation system. The scientists have confirmed we are headed into a Mini Ice Age and our global temperature is modulated by the sun, nothing else. Period.

No wonder why noone takes you seriously.

I didn't take him seriously before but that quote is priceless.

Especially because after I embarrassed Gmaxwell upthread on the technical points, now I am going to embarrass you guys with some facts (but I realize your AGW religion ignores facts):

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1091272.msg14688442#msg14688442

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1091272.msg14660362#msg14660362

"Corporate fascism" is simply a loaded, pejorative phrase. The term "Fascism" itself is so ill-defined that it carries no meaning outside of "do.not.want," at least when used without a qualifier.

Here's what wikip has to say:
"One common definition of the term focuses on three concepts: the fascist negations of anti-liberalism, anti-communism and anti-conservatism; nationalist authoritarian goals of creating a regulated economic structure to transform social relations within a modern, self-determined culture; and a political aesthetic of romantic symbolism, mass mobilization, a positive view of violence, and promotion of masculinity, youth and charismatic leadership.[25][26][27] According to many scholars, fascism—especially once in power—has historically attacked communism, conservatism and parliamentary liberalism, attracting support primarily from the far right.[28]

Yeah, not much there. And no one seems to agree on what it is.

[sockpuppet1]

Anonymint, you've lately been saying Bitcoin is doomed because of mining concentration in China, so my post was entirely focused on that point.  We all know China specifically is not an actual threat to Bitcoin for the long term.

Huh 

It doesn't matter where the ASIC mining farms are located, but that doesn't mean China isn't a long-term threat to Bitcoin's decentralization.

As for the other decentralization issues, yea, maybe Bitcoin is 100 pools in the future, or maybe it's 10; regardless, it will likely be beneficial in the fight against fractional reserve, debt based currency.  If you claim it will be captured by regulators, oh well, people would just start using a new cryptocurrency or fork of Bitcoin if they attempt to increase the coin limit.

The threat is not just from pool concentration, it is from ASIC mining farms of which just one owner plans to be mining about 30% of all Bitcoins, another one 10%, etc.. These owners absolutely will obey any government edicts which require they institute capital controls on Bitcoin transactions. They would be crazy to risk their mining farm being padlocked and confiscated for disobeying.

Once the masses are using Bitcoin, they will not switch. Please stop writing delusionary nonsense.

The bankers who have captured the state are going to end up losing power somewhere down the line through this.  In other words, no matter what happens with Bitcoin, you can't make a system worse than what we already have.

The bankster elite never lose power. They didn't lose power during the French revolution. The political figureheads lose their heads, but the banksters are eternal. Sorry man. You are living is some delusion that doesn't agree with 6000 years of recorded history.

The globalist elite are moving us towards a one world reserve currency new world order of control (and Bitcoin won't be the world's reserve currency, but rather is a digital totalitarian currency of global exchange not a reserve currency). China and Singapore will take over power from the West. We are entering a more totalitarian Technocracy world. There will be a smart meter on every home, etc..

Please wake up from your stupor.

That's why I do not buy into your statement that all cryptocurrency systems are pointless because you don't think they're decentralized enough or some other metric.  I do not believe unprofitable PoW will be a valid solution either (especially in the case of IOTA). 

The system is going to collapse and Bitcoin will play a role as a vital life raft to get to whatever is on the other side.  Think of it as a eugenics program, or the first welfare system for Caucasian and Asian computer science students.

Bitcoin will trap your capital and be confiscated. Enjoy.

I am not saying someone might not invent a solution, but it is unlikely.

Pray. Clusterfucked world coming.

[sockpuppet1]

Great to read you have an IQ higher than 115 and some logic skills.

Another sucker in the "IQ is a thing" scam eh?  Always sad to see people fall for that.  One thing we all know for sure: those who call other idiots regularly (without the necessary context for that to have meaning) have the opinion of themselves that they are unlikely to do well on any test involving imagination, empathy, or self discipline.  What one calls others reflects what one thinks of ones self.

What other kind of nonsense do we have here in this thread, deniers of the anthropocene age, claims that centralization of mining is equivalent to private issuance (huh?), and of course  十五岁的外国人真的知道中国人是谁。

What conclusions?  We should all get some sleep, read some books and stay out of the forums for a bit.  

I am just frustrated with your illogical replies, including the quoted one above. You think you are smart, but you wrote nonsense again.

But I'll drink a beer to your last sentence. Cheers.

I hope you guys can keep the thread rational.

[jak1]

it can never be destroyed

[tzman]

There are some companies working at China outside the country the ownwers,soo isnt controlled,sure they hold several has and several bitcoins and are able to manipulate the market ,but no one has full control of bitcoin we keep being able to work and earn with bitcoins soo till the moment the money around bitcoin stop circulate i would consider it very alive.

[AGD]

Bitcoin is basically destroyed now with 70% of the mining controlled by China, soon to be 98+%, and with Blockstream implementing their SegWit soft fork Trojan Horse so as Matonis admits can end up increasing the 21 million coins limit.

The entire ecosystem is headed for a clusterfuck.

I honestly believe this is the truth.  What is there to add ?

~CfA~

BTW, you are talking about this Matonis guy, who has no doubt about Craig Wright is Satoshi Nakamoto? Sorry to dig that up, bud.

[ObscureBean]

I mentioned this a couple of years ago in one of those Bitcoin will kill the Dollar threads. The 51% attack is a very real concern. A lawless Bitcoin network means that all we have as guarantee that everyone will abide by the rules is trust. We rely on the word of mining farms to pull back if they get close to owning too much of the network hash. Any single country owning so much hashing power is bound to cause unease.

[illodin]

The few posters with a brain stem, prevent the thread from being turned into a disinformation campaign by those who are either of only average intelligence (thus not adroit with logic) or those intentionally disingenuous trolls. Which classification do you reckon applies to DooMAD?

Given that half of the human population are dumber than average, and if we estimate 25% of the population are dishonest (feel free to adjust this number, my view might be too cynical), he has 12.5% chance of being intentionally disingenuous.

[ObscureBean]

The few posters with a brain stem, prevent the thread from being turned into a disinformation campaign by those who are either of only average intelligence (thus not adroit with logic) or those intentionally disingenuous trolls. Which classification do you reckon applies to DooMAD?

Given that half of the human population are dumber than average, and if we estimate 25% of the population are dishonest (feel free to adjust this number, my view might be too cynical), he has 12.5% chance of being intentionally disingenuous.

Your math here made me smile, I'm not sure it is mathematically/logically possible that half the human population be dumber than the average   But I do get what you're trying to say.
Anyways what I really wanted to comment about is your extremely optimistic estimate of only 25% being dishonest    I'd say it's probably closer to 99.9% if not a full 100%.

[Wendigo]

Well it's obvious that China owns most if not all of the hashing power in the world and that Bitcoin mining has basically become centralized but do you think the Chinese government might try to exert control over all the mining farms in order to mess with the Bitcoin network? I hope China realizes that tinkering with the network or trying to strong-arm changes in the core client that will favor miners more may cause an irreparable damage to the Bitcoin market.

[sockpuppet1]

I'm not sure it is mathematically/logically possible that half the human population be dumber than the average

Ahem. Did you not learn about the Gaussian distribution in high school like the rest of us did.

The few posters with a brain stem, prevent the thread from being turned into a disinformation campaign by those who are either of only average intelligence (thus not adroit with logic) or those intentionally disingenuous trolls. Which classification do you reckon applies to DooMAD?

Given that half of the human population are dumber than average, and if we estimate 25% of the population are dishonest (feel free to adjust this number, my view might be too cynical), he has 12.5% chance of being intentionally disingenuous.

Lol. But in order for your logic to work, you need to assume that he is dishonest with himself, i.e. blinded by their own ideologies, which I find to actually be the case with ideologues.

[Cyaren]

But the fact is that China do have a lot of people, and the ratio of their volume to population isn't that high I believe if you compare to USA.

But still... Above 51% is pretty dangerous. Hopefully the devs can come up with a solution.

[sockpuppet1]

BTC will moon regardless of this.

I have never taken the position that BTC will never go higher than $1000 again. I believe it is possible it has not yet formed a bottom, but that is not saying it has seen its highest top.

If I were TPTB, I would want the maximum number of people to incriminate themselves by moving their assets into Bitcoin, before going after confiscations for money laundering and other fine prints in the laws.

So yes I see another big runup of the Bitcoin price and the regulation will come later perhaps 2018 or even after 2020, and then they will start to confiscate the Bitcoins with the control over mining. And I expect clawbacks too meaning if you divested of Bitcoin, they will come seize your other assets. Or jailtime if you can't pay up. Debtors' prisons will return. Why? Because the governments are bankrupt, socialism is bankrupt, but the world is mostly socialists and they will not stop trying to take money from other people, so they will go find the money every place they can to steal it. This is the way socialism works. No one can defect. It is until death do us part.

We are headed into a clusterfuck. Many of you are delusional labeling me a Chicken Little because you don't want to admit the clusterfuck the world is in now. Enjoy.

Even if they wanted to, I don't see governments being competent enough to take over Bitcoin in the near future when the world economy implodes.  That's why I say no matter what you think about Bitcoin, it's going to play a vital role as a life raft to get to whatever is on the other side of "the great reset".  You can nitpick about random metrics of Bitcoin if you're able to survive past that point.  All I know is, Bitcoin will either be extremely useful and valuable then, or everyone will be killing each other in the street for cans of soup and no currency will have value.

Socialism will not die. I had predicted this in my widely syndicated 2010 essay which predicted the EU would not breakup:

“It amazes that otherwise bright people can’t understand the simple concept that economic collapse doesn’t convert collectivists into anarchists.”

Asia's debt is not promises to retirees, but rather corporate and LGU debt which can be defaulted on. Asia will crash and bottom 2020 and then rise up leading the world in socialism and totalitarianism, while the West collapses into a clusterfuck of the end-game of socialism death spiral. The conservatives in the USA are fighting to break away from the rest of the USA. The USA will fracture into regions because the gun owners in the USA are willing to die for their sovereignty. Europe will collapse into a Dark Age because no one can fight back against the Troika and socialism. Plus now there are more muslim Europeans being born than white Europeans. Game over. Checkmate.

China+Singapore is going to tie your Bitcoin white ass to the totem pole and give you 50 lashes.

Collectivism is a power vacuum and the argument is always about who gets to steal for and from whom.

Bernie: "Socialism can be repaired as long as I can be in charge of the stealing to insure it is fair".
Trump: "Stealing can be optimized if I am Dicktator-in-chief"
Clinton: "You'll tolerate my theft (for myself and my cronies) because as a Democrat I'll steal some for you too (and not remind you I funded it all by expanding an egregious future debt on your children's back)"

[ObscureBean]

I'm not sure it is mathematically/logically possible that half the human population be dumber than the average

Ahem. Did you not learn about the Gaussian distribution in high school like the rest of us did.

The few posters with a brain stem, prevent the thread from being turned into a disinformation campaign by those who are either of only average intelligence (thus not adroit with logic) or those intentionally disingenuous trolls. Which classification do you reckon applies to DooMAD?

Given that half of the human population are dumber than average, and if we estimate 25% of the population are dishonest (feel free to adjust this number, my view might be too cynical), he has 12.5% chance of being intentionally disingenuous.

Lol. But in order for your logic to work, you need to assume that he is dishonest with himself, i.e. blinded by their own ideologies, which I find to actually be the case with ideologues.

First off. If by Gaussian distribution you're referring to statistics and probability, I'll stop you right there. These have got to be two of the biggest ever scams that have come to be accepted as science, they're a disgrace to Mathematics    I'm being serious.

But if you care to explain it to me, I'd love to hear all about the Gaussian distribution and how it validates his statement. In layman's terms of course 

[sockpuppet1]

But if you care to explain it to me, I'd love to hear all about the Gaussian distribution and how it validates his statement. In layman's terms of course  

I didn't pay careful attention. He did have error by stating "average" where he should have stated "mean".

You are welcome to debate the validity of "g" with psychometricians, but I will just point out it has a high correlation with level of education completed and type of jobs attained:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligence_quotient#Other_accomplishments
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G_factor_%28psychometrics%29#Academic_achievement

And I note that the ability of readers (at least amongst those who post comments) to handle the abstraction in my statements seems to be rare. Instead readers seem to need me to spell out all the permutations of details that are embodied in abstract statements. For example, frankenstud has another set of myopias which I didn't bother to explain to him.

[lumeire]

Well it's obvious that China owns most if not all of the hashing power in the world and that Bitcoin mining has basically become centralized but do you think the Chinese government might try to exert control over all the mining farms in order to mess with the Bitcoin network? I hope China realizes that tinkering with the network or trying to strong-arm changes in the core client that will favor miners more may cause an irreparable damage to the Bitcoin market.

What else is new, China control almost everything nowadays - manufacturing, territory, even BTCBTCBTC mining. Although I don't think they won't control something like that. I haven't heard of the Chinese government taking control companies as of yet - like if they would, I think they'd prioritize companies like Alibaba.

[chek2fire]

[ObscureBean]

[

You are welcome to debate the validity of "g" with psychometricians

I'll pass thank you. You obviously didn't pay careful attention once again else you'd have noticed that I ended my comment with "In layman's terms of course"
I'm just kidding  

I think the rest of your comment is rather shortsighted (or careless?) though if you don't mind me saying. There is a very good reason why I personally like to "spell out" every point I try to put across. By limiting my audience to only a few "learned scholars" who would be able to understand abstract comments, I would be limiting my own scope and reach. It would be a little like in-breeding amongst snobs  really    
By having everything "spelled out" in plain English, you'd be able to gather a lot more data, ideas and experiences from people with a variety of different backgrounds. More data/input  means higher probability that you come across something unexpected that helps you expand your own sphere of knowledge. You're shortsighted if you think you can only learn from 'intelligent' people. Knowledge is devoid of bias.
I hope I don't come across as harsh. And this is certainly not a personal attack.
BTW I don't consider myself intelligent by any stretch of the word. I've failed way too many exams to even toy with the idea  

[Dr.Osh]

I can not believe it happened, and I hope it will not happen. bitcoin is something important today, than to be destroyed is better developed into something better. I feel there is more that can bitcoin do with things that are positive, so much I do not believe it