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Author Topic: BetSoft Non-Payment of Jackpot  (Read 17063 times)
jasonort
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June 19, 2016, 03:40:05 AM
 #1

I would like the forums opinion on whether I should have won the jackpot. Here's the background: I placed a max bet on the slot "The Glam Life". On the original bet I got 3 airplanes on 2 paylines granting me 4 bonus spins. On the final spin I get five Yachts on the payline which in my opinion should have triggered the jackpot. Instead I was paid 1000 credits. This I believe this is evidence to the fact that it was a max bet according to the pay table. 5 yachts = 200 credits x Number of bets per line. Five bets per line is the maximum. Based on them paying me 1000 credits they're essentially stating that I bet the max amount. So why would this not qualify for a jackpot? Betsoft is stating that it does not qualify because it was a bonus spin. I can find nowhere in the terms and conditions, rules of the game, or payouts description stating that a bonus spin is not eligible for the jackpot. Please take a look at the photos of my win, and of the pays, and let me know what you think. Should I have won the jackpot?  Betcoin.ag says No because it was a bonus spin.  Take a look at the screenshots I took.

http://imgur.com/a/hx7Ht

Betcoin.ag is of course saying that BetSoft is to blame.  Who can I dispute this with?
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June 19, 2016, 04:04:22 AM
 #2

Do you have the bet ID, and hashes of the bet? How much is the jackpot in question? What are the terms of the jackpot? You should be able to use archive.today to preserve everything except the hashes of the bet but you should be able to math mathematically prove this.

edit: per the request of TwitchySeal I am quoting his post in my reply, which is the first reply to this thread (I have not investigated the accuracy of the below statements):

I did some digging when I saw OPs post on Betcoin and how aggressively comments were being censored.  It's shocking how non-transparent Betsoftgaming software is. As few explanations, terms or conditions as possible.  The game in question has a $3m progressive, but don't explain where it comes from or how it's won other than "5 yachts on max bet". 



Pretty unreal.

As usual, Betcoin makes everything as shady as possible by attempting to cover it up and make OP feel like shit for being such a crybaby.  I've personally had over 50 posts removed in the last 2 days and will continue to post all the facts below on their own forum.

Here are the facts:

  • Glamlife is a progressive jackpot game provided by Betsoft Gaming
  • When changing from one denomination to another, the Progressive Jackpot also changes. This indicates that each denomination has it's own independent Jackpot.
  • Currently, for the Highest denomination Betcoin advertises the Glam Life Progressive Jackpot as 3,872.26 BTC (3,872.26 BTC, current value of ~$2.9 Million USD) as Seen here:



  • Jason was playing with .5 mbtc denomination and the Jackpot displayed 1,007,249.91 (503.6249 BTC current value of ~$383,000)
  • The only requirement that can be found anywhere within the game, Betcoin.ag or Betsoft.com/ is "5 Yacht Icons on Max Bet wins Jackpot"
  • At .5 denomination Jason placed the maximum bet of 5 credits x 25 lines = 125 credits or 0.062 BTC (~$45 at the time).
   3 Scatters Triggered 4 Extra Spins (note: no multiplier or anything to indicate that alternative reels were in play)
   On thefinal spin, 5 Yacht Symbols landed on Payline 1.





  • Jason was paid 1000 credits (0.5 BTC) for the spin.
  • Betcoin.ag staff deleted all posts in the thread that had criticism of either Betcoin or Betsoft, posted the following message relayed from Betsoftgaming and locked the thread.  I only archived one of the deleted comments: https://archive.is/eE55g
Quote
Thank you for your inquiry. We can confirm that your win was correct in this situation. A maximum bet for this game is the highest denomination which is 1.00, whereas in this particular round, you bet 0.50, even though you chose 'Max Bet', the jackpot is only won when it is the maximum bet (1.00).



  • Since locking the thread there has been no response to the appearance of each denomination having its own seperate Jackpot.
  • Betcoin Moderator Plo8s comment on Issue (It's standard for him to defend Betcoin with nonsense):
Quote
plo8monster: thats totally not true lol ungod ... the bonus max out at 1000chips, and the vendor has that rule .. betcoin dont pay it the vendor does ... you guys all jump on bandwagon ... but these are vendors that do sports and casino games ..... I dont have time to get into this tonight ...but the vendor limits bonus wins @ 1000 chips .... if he were spending his money and made that spin he would be Phat with coin

-Betcoin Andrews response on deleted comments via private chat:

Quote
(10:13:16) *** Betcoin Andrew joined the chat ***
(10:13:16) *** twitchyseal joined the chat ***
(10:15:47) twitchyseal: hey andrew, you know anything about my vanishing post?
(10:17:21) Betcoin Andrew: Our casino providers do an excellent job and are used by the top online casinos. We cannot have those type of comments about them in the forum as they are constantly reviewing our website.
(10:17:26) *** Betcoin Andrew left the chat ***

  • About Betsoftgaming

-In March 2013, Betsoft was granted a Category 1 license from the Alderny Gaming Control Commision (AGCC) : http://www.betsoft.com/media/betsoft-gaming-announces-completion-alderney

-July 2014, AGCC ordered Betsoft to "cease to offer gambling specific software to Category 1 eGambling licensees, Category 2 eGambling licensees and Category 2 Associate Certificate holders" pending the result of a hearing set for October 2014
https://www.gamblingcontrol.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/AGCC-Notice-R...

-October 2014, 3 days before scheduled hearing, Betsoft surrendered their license and rights to provide class 1 e-gaming to casinos located within AGCC jurisdiction:
https://www.gamblingcontrol.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Digitus-notic...


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June 19, 2016, 05:56:07 AM
 #3

I play on this site and looked at the man's screenshot on a forum post there. This jackpot is worth $750,000, largest fuckaroo in bitcoin casino history in my opinion.
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June 19, 2016, 10:34:15 AM
 #4

I play on this site and looked at the man's screenshot on a forum post there. This jackpot is worth $750,000, largest fuckaroo in bitcoin casino history in my opinion.

If its stated in their ToS or in the games paytable that the jackpot cannot be claimed or won if in a bonus round then he was not screwed at all. On the other hand if its not stated anywhere then betcoin needs to man up and pay the guy or get neg repped like crazy

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June 19, 2016, 11:34:31 AM
 #5

Its quite simple betsoft should be the one to release the jackpot once betcoin receives it they convert it to btc for you. If betsoft says it's not a jackpot ask them

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June 19, 2016, 12:45:56 PM
 #6

Chat started
sdfsf
hey i have a question
   
can I win the jackpot in slots during a bonus round?
   
hello?
   
Betcoin Stuart joined the chat
   
Betcoin Stuart
Hello
   
yes I think you can]
sdfsf
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1517648.0
   
explain that one then
   
   
Betcoin Stuart
create a ticket
   
to receive a proper explanation
sdfsf
thank you


Well you gotta love the support for that site. Did you create a ticket?

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June 19, 2016, 01:22:25 PM
 #7

I guess you can not claim a jackpot that, in all the gambling sites the balance you get from bonus spins can't be claimed. sorry if I'm wrong because what I know is like that.

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June 19, 2016, 01:49:52 PM
 #8

It is a shady company. I saw many scam reports about them. Those promotions is a scam. No way they will give you $750,000.
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June 19, 2016, 01:53:15 PM
 #9

It is a shady company. I saw many scam reports about them. Those promotions is a scam. No way they will give you $750,000.
If you actually knew what is going on you would know that betcoin doesn't give the jackpot but betsoft. And the op has to contact betsoft for the jackpot but I don't think you knew that as you only post for your yobit  campaign.

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June 19, 2016, 09:40:11 PM
 #10

This should be paid, why they did not set Jackpot Number to 0 during free spins they adjust it to the bet amount

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June 19, 2016, 10:54:36 PM
 #11

Betcoin.ag   scam
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June 20, 2016, 03:53:50 AM
 #12

Here is my support ticket transcript from Betcoin.ag

Ticket #57771: Glam Life Should Have Won Jackpot
Primary tabs
View(active tab)
Edit
 by jasonort on June 14th, 2016
 16 Comments 0 Shares Tweets +1
I got 5 Yachts across the payline in Glam Life at Max Bet. Should have won Jackpot, but only received 1000 credits. I'm really upset. I have a screenshot of the win. How can I get it to you.
16 COMMENTS

 
jasonort: Here is the screen grab I4 days 23 hours ago
Here is the screen grab I took.

http://imgur.com/UQxeVni

0
reply
 
jasonort: Transaction ID for the win is4 days 23 hours ago
Transaction ID for the win is 21940441

0
reply
 
Betcoin Jessica: Hello jasonort, we sent this4 days 21 hours ago
Hello jasonort, we sent this to the software provider for review and we are reviewing it internally. There are a few reasons why this may happen including this was a free spin or bonus round which was not mentioned here but we will see what the software provider states very shortly.

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jasonort: It does not state anywhere4 days 20 hours ago
It does not state anywhere that a free spin does not count. I also searched BetSoft's website. I bet the Max bet, and got 5 yachts on the payline. I don't see any way that I did not win. If there were any exceptions to these rules they should be stated clearly on the pay table. There is no such language on your site or on BetSofts website.

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jasonort: Please feel free to email4 days 20 hours ago
Please feel free to email directly to discuss at jasonort@X.com or call me on my cell phone at 1-XXX-XXX-XXXX any time after 8am Central Standard Time.

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Betcoin Andrew: Hello, we are waiting to hear4 days 10 hours ago
Hello, we are waiting to hear from Betsoft on the matter in detail. Betsoft provides the software for all of the the top online casinos including Betcoin as well as all payouts directly through there interface. There would be no way for us to even change it as you are technically playing directly on Betsoft servers. Are you now saying that this was a bonus spin or free round? I haven't personally checked because we are waiting to hear from Betsoft.

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jasonort: Andrew, 4 days 9 hours ago
Andrew,
If you look at the pay line I have bet the maximum amount of 125 credits. Truthfully I don't know if this was a free spin, it was very late and I was zoning out playing. Got very excited when I saw the pay line. Was instantly devastated when I saw the payout. In my opinion it should not matter whether it was a free spin or not, as the free spin would have been obtained by betting the max bet. There is nothing stating on your website or on Betsoft's website in regards to this game stating that a bonus spin would not qualify for the jackpot. It clearly states only that five yachts on the pay line with max bet wins the jackpot. There are no caveats listed, and it is very clear that I wagered the Max bet. Further any other winning combination resulting from a bonus spin would have been paid out as a max bet because that is what was wagered. I know this is not how you would usually do things, but could you please give me a telephone call at 1-XXX-XXX-XXXX? I would really appreciate speak to a live person as this is an unusual circumstance. Thank you very much.

Jason

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jasonort: Radio Silence3 days 19 hours ago
Could one of the managers please give me an update? I know you are waiting on BetSoft, but what does your internal review show? I have not found anything in any of the terms and conditions for this game that says that I should not have won a jackpot on this spin. Please someone let me know what is happpening.

0
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Betcoin William: We just received a response3 days 13 hours ago
We just received a response from Betsoft and Andrew was 100% correct. Again as Andrew pointed out, you play directly on the Betsoft servers and not on Betcoin's servers as do all players of Betsoft slots across the Internet. Following is the response directly from Betsoft Gaming.

Hello Betcoin,

The jackpot can only be won on an active, paid round. So, this behavior is correct being that it was achieved during a free spin session.

Warm Regards,

Support Manager
Betsoft Gaming

Andrew knew this was the case when he first responded to you, but wanted to confirm with Betsoft even though you did not mention in your initial inquiry that this was done in a bonus round or free spin. Betsoft sets the rules, odds for the slots and the table games and we cannot change them in anyway. We appreciate you playing with us jasonort and are always here for you anytime.

0
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jasonort: Is there a way to dispute this with BetSoft3 days 11 hours ago
I understand that you are the middleman in this situation. Is there anyway to dispute this finding with Betsoft? I would ask you for a minute to put yourself in my position and try to be objective. Tell me where you see in any of the rules or conditions for this game does it state that a bonus spin that was obtained with a max bet would not qualify for the jackpot? I originally bet the max bet. It seems to me that Betsoft should either clearly state this, or modify their software to make it impossible for a jackpot pay line to be hit during a bonus spin. I am extremely upset by this because I have found nowhere in the rules, terms and conditions explicitly stating that this should not qualify for a jackpot. I would welcome your thoughts, and much more would appreciate a live telephone call. My cell phone number is 1-XXX-XXX-XXXX.

0
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Betcoin Andrew: Thank you for your3 days 10 hours ago
Thank you for your understanding. Betsoft has been doing this for well over 10 years servicing the top online casinos in the industry. You would have the same answer on any other casino. We have dealt with this before that is why I mentioned it in my first reply despite the fact that you did not mention it was a bonus round. They have also dealt with this many times before, but most players understand that it is a bonus or free round and there are different outcomes because of that. Betsoft calculates all odds, payouts, bonuses, free spins and everything with regard to the casino games and they have been industry leaders for a very long time jasonort.

0
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jasonort: Is there anyway to dispute this with Betsoft?3 days 9 hours ago
I do understand your position in this situation. You're just the middleman between me and Betsoft. Do not take that as acceptance of Betsoft's ruling that I will not be paid the jackpot. There is nothing in the rules that state I should not have won. If you will not to dispute this for me, I would like to take it up directly with Betsoft. Could you kindly provide me with the contact information for the person you deal with at Betsoft. Could you also provide me any technical information related directly to my spin that should have triggered jackpot. Spin ID, transaction ID, or any other information that I would need to provide to them to dispute their findings. I had hoped that as a valued customer that you would see I have a valid argument, and would fight this decision alongside me. I 100% disagree with the findings based on the fact that that it says nowhere on your site or their's that a bonus spin obtained with a max bet is not valid to win the jackpot. If you or Betsoft can provide me with this documentation where it clearly states this in the rules, then I am happy to drop my dispute. For now I believe I am still correct that I should have been paid the jackpot, and will move forward with the dispute through all channels available to me. I hope you'll help me with this endeavor.

0
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jasonort: I have submitted this to2 days 6 min ago
I have submitted this to Betsoft as well as to Curacao eGaming whom they are licensed through. I understand your apprehension to help me in this matter. You are dependent on Betsoft for your gaming software. Never bite the hand that feeds you. I also understand that this is not your decision, but theirs. I still feel that I am correct and I have been cheated out of a large jackpot. I may bring this to social media to get their attention. I will say nothing bad about Betcoin.ag as I know this is not your decision to make, and you have always been good to me. Any help you could offer me would be most appreciated in pursuing this, but I understand the position you are in, and the power that Betsoft holds over your industry.

0
reply
 
Betcoin Jessica: We don't have any1 day 23 hours ago
We don't have any apprehension about helping you. The point is this isn't the first time this has happened. Most people understand this clearly and move on especially due to the fact that it is a bonus round and you can't even bet the max that qualifies for the jackpot. Betsoft has sent the following email to us that we share with you:

"Thank you for your inquiry. We can confirm that your win was correct in this situation. A maximum bet for this game is the highest denomination which is 1.00, whereas in this particular round, you bet 0.50, even though you chose 'Max Bet', the jackpot is only won when it is the maximum bet (1.00)."

We are certainly here for you anytime.

0
reply
 
jasonort: Jessica, 1 day 23 hours ago
Jessica,

I find that statement by BetSoft to be totally false. The Jackpot listed within the game adjusts up or down according to the bet denomination. The jackpot for .50 was roughly 1,000,000. When the denomination increases to 1.00 the jackpot lists at 2,000,000. When you reduce to .25 the jackpot lists 500,000. A Max bet for this game is 125 credits or 5 credits x 25 lines. Again my fight is not with you. You all have been great to me as a player. I am not willing to move on because I feel that I am correct. At the very least BetSoft needs to adjust the pay table to have language stating that a bonus spin will not qualify for the jackpot. Currently they do not. This is at the very least misleading, and at the worst unfair gaming practice.

0
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jasonort: Everyone but you agrees with me5 hours 29 min ago
Everyone that I have brought this to agrees that this should have triggered the jackpot. AskGamblers.com is a very reputable gambling site that helps to resolve problems between casinos and their customers. Here is their response.

Zoya (AskGamblers Support)
Jun 18, 14:55 CEST

Dear Jason,

You were right. Additional information did change their mind.

Our suggestion to you is to complaint against the casino (Betcoin.ag) that you played the game and the jackpot was not validated and paid. Casino is supposed to be responsible for such issues and at least conduct some serious investigation and provide all the necessary proofs if there was such jackpot winning spin or not...

Unfortunately mentioned casino is not listed at AskGamblers, so you are not able to submit complaint using AskGamblers Complaint Services, since we do not offer that possibility for casinos that havent been reviewed yet by AskGamblers. Please check if casino has their own complaint services. If not, you may try to seek further help with Licence Authorities of Casino.

I hope that we managed to help you at least with these advices.

Sincerely,

Zoya, Customer Support - support@askgamblers.com

Zoya
Zoya (AskGamblers Support)
Jun 18, 14:41 CEST

Dear Jason,

I have just passed that info to our complaint department. I will let you know as soon as I receive feedback from them.

Sincerely,

Zoya, Customer Support - support@askgamblers.com


Jun 18, 14:37 CEST

Zoya,

Thank you again. One additional piece of information that might change their mind. The jackpot value changes as you change your bet denomination. At 0.50 max bet jackpot is roughly 1,000,000. Increase bet to 1.00 and jackpot changes to 2,000,000. When you press "max bet" button to spin the reels, it bets 125 credits for every denomination. Does this information change the opinion of the complaint department?

Zoya
Zoya (AskGamblers Support)
Jun 18, 13:06 CEST

Dear Jason,

I would like to inform you what our complaint department said regarding your issue.

After they have reviewed complaint that you described in the email sent to BetSoft, they have came to conclusion that you didn't play at max bet when you hit the 5 yachts and that is why game didn't pay the jackpot. You were supposed to choose not only max bet per line, but also max coin denomination, which for this is not 0.50, but 1.00.

I Hope the explanation provided above clarifies the situation.

Sincerely,

Zoya, Customer Support - support@askgamblers.com

Zoya
Zoya (AskGamblers Support)
Jun 18, 09:04 CEST

Dear Jason,

Thank you for understanding:)

I have already sent your email to our complaint department, so they may at least read it and if possible give you any advice.

I will let you know as soon as I receive any feedback from them.

Sincerely,

Zoya, Customer Support - support@askgamblers.com

Jun 18, 08:50 CEST

Thank you for your help, and I understand. Being someone who has seen many disputes I would be interested in your opinion on this matter. Do you think my claim is a valid one?

Zoya
Zoya (AskGamblers Support)
Jun 18, 08:34 CEST

Dear Jason,

I am really sorry, but I have to inform you that AskGamblers complaint services are only available against Casinos. Unfortunately you are not able to submit complaint here at AskGamblers against other sources then Casino.

I can only suggest to you to try solving this issue out directly with them, but you have already done that. I hope that they will be cooperative and that they will resolve your issue as soon as possible.

We would like to be informed about the progress and final outcome of your battle with Betsoft. Please keep us posted, if you do not mind.

I wish you good luck!

Have a nice day Jason.

Sincerely,

Zoya, Customer Support - support@askgamblers.com


Jun 18, 06:14 CEST

Dear askgamblers,

I would like to file a complaint, but my complaint is not against the casino that I play at (Betcoin.ag), but with the software provider (BetSoft Gaming) of the game that I have the complaint about. I am not sure how to proceed with this, and would like your assistance. Here is the email that I have sent to support at BetSoft, but have not received a response. The email describes in detail my complaint.

Dear Betsoft,

I believe that I should have been paid a jackpot while playing "The Glam Life" at Betcoin.ag. This occurred at about 10:58 CST on June 14th. I was playing at the .50 credit level, and betting the max bet of 5 credits per line. My spin matched 3 planes to 2 paylines generating 4 bonus spins. On the 4th bonus spin I matched 5 yachts across the payline which should have paid the jackpot. I was instead paid only 1000 credits. There is no language on your site, on Betcoin.ag's site, nor on the pay table for the game that says that a bonus spin does not qualify for the jackpot. It simply says match 5 yachts on the payline at the max bet to win the jackpot. I clearly bet the max amount, and as you can see from the screenshot here http://imgur.com/UQxeVni I have matched 5 yachts on the payline. The bet line says 125 which is max bet, the payline shows 5 yachts. How does that not win the jackpot? I have pursued this matter with Betcoin.ag, they have informed me that you are the final decision-makers as I was directly connected to your servers through them. And any payout would have to come from you. If I am missing something, and there is clearly something in writing that states for this game that bonus spins are not eligible for the jackpot, please show me where. Please advise. Thank you.

I have attached screenshots of both the payline from the spin in question as well as the screenshot I took of the pay table listed. I am asking you to please help bring this to BetSoft's attention and help me to resolve my dispute. Thank you for any help you can offer.

Attachment(s)
Glam Life Jackpot.jpg
Glam Life Pays.jpg
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June 20, 2016, 04:09:10 AM
 #13

Here is the image of the bet from my Betsoft account:

http://imgur.com/QNODUAp

Is the ExtID a number from BetSoft?
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June 20, 2016, 04:13:18 AM
 #14

I did some digging when I saw OPs post on Betcoin and how aggressively comments were being censored.  It's shocking how non-transparent Betsoftgaming software is. As few explanations, terms or conditions as possible.  The game in question has a $3m progressive, but don't explain where it comes from or how it's won other than "5 yachts on max bet".  



Pretty unreal.

As usual, Betcoin makes everything as shady as possible by attempting to cover it up and make OP feel like shit for being such a crybaby.  I've personally had over 50 posts removed in the last 2 days and will continue to post all the facts below on their own forum.

Here are the facts:

  • Glamlife is a progressive jackpot game provided by Betsoft Gaming
  • When changing from one denomination to another, the Progressive Jackpot also changes. This indicates that each denomination has it's own independent Jackpot.
  • Currently, for the Highest denomination Betcoin advertises the Glam Life Progressive Jackpot as 3,872.26 BTC (3,872.26 BTC, current value of ~$2.9 Million USD) as Seen here:



  • Jason was playing with .5 mbtc denomination and the Jackpot displayed 1,007,249.91 (503.6249 BTC current value of ~$383,000)
  • The only requirement that can be found anywhere within the game, Betcoin.ag or Betsoft.com/ is "5 Yacht Icons on Max Bet wins Jackpot"
  • At .5 denomination Jason placed the maximum bet of 5 credits x 25 lines = 125 credits or 0.062 BTC (~$45 at the time).
  3 Scatters Triggered 4 Extra Spins (note: no multiplier or anything to indicate that alternative reels were in play)
   On thefinal spin, 5 Yacht Symbols landed on Payline 1.





  • Jason was paid 1000 credits (0.5 BTC) for the spin.
  • Betcoin.ag staff deleted all posts in the thread that had criticism of either Betcoin or Betsoft, posted the following message relayed from Betsoftgaming and locked the thread.  I only archived one of the deleted comments: https://archive.is/eE55g
Quote
Thank you for your inquiry. We can confirm that your win was correct in this situation. A maximum bet for this game is the highest denomination which is 1.00, whereas in this particular round, you bet 0.50, even though you chose 'Max Bet', the jackpot is only won when it is the maximum bet (1.00).



  • Since locking the thread there has been no response to the appearance of each denomination having its own seperate Jackpot.
  • Betcoin Moderator Plo8s comment on Issue (It's standard for him to defend Betcoin with nonsense):
Quote
plo8monster: thats totally not true lol ungod ... the bonus max out at 1000chips, and the vendor has that rule .. betcoin dont pay it the vendor does ... you guys all jump on bandwagon ... but these are vendors that do sports and casino games ..... I dont have time to get into this tonight ...but the vendor limits bonus wins @ 1000 chips .... if he were spending his money and made that spin he would be Phat with coin

-Betcoin Andrews response on deleted comments via private chat:

Quote
(10:13:16) *** Betcoin Andrew joined the chat ***
(10:13:16) *** twitchyseal joined the chat ***
(10:15:47) twitchyseal: hey andrew, you know anything about my vanishing post?
(10:17:21) Betcoin Andrew: Our casino providers do an excellent job and are used by the top online casinos. We cannot have those type of comments about them in the forum as they are constantly reviewing our website.
(10:17:26) *** Betcoin Andrew left the chat ***

  • About Betsoftgaming

-In March 2013, Betsoft was granted a Category 1 license from the Alderny Gaming Control Commision (AGCC) : http://www.betsoft.com/media/betsoft-gaming-announces-completion-alderney

-July 2014, AGCC ordered Betsoft to "cease to offer gambling specific software to Category 1 eGambling licensees, Category 2 eGambling licensees and Category 2 Associate Certificate holders" pending the result of a hearing set for October 2014
https://www.gamblingcontrol.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/AGCC-Notice-R...

-October 2014, 3 days before scheduled hearing, Betsoft surrendered their license and rights to provide class 1 e-gaming to casinos located within AGCC jurisdiction:
https://www.gamblingcontrol.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Digitus-notic...








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June 20, 2016, 05:50:46 AM
 #15

Here is the email I sent to Curacao eGaming which licenses BetSoft.  I also copied BetSoft Support and Betcoin.ag Support.

Jason Ortmeier <jlo41074@gmail.com>
Attachments12:41 AM (15 minutes ago)

to complaints, support, support

To whom it may concern,

I am alleging unfair gaming practices by one of your licensees, BetSoft gaming.  I placed a wager on a slot machine "The Glam Life" through Betcoin.ag who uses Betsoft software for this game.  The wager was the maxiimum bet allowed for the denomination (.50 credits) which was 5 bets per line x 25 lines, for a wager of 125 credits.  The spin resulted in winning 4 bonus spins.  On the 4th bonus spin the game showed 5 Yachts on the payline.  According to the pay table for this game this should have resulted in winning the jackpot.  I wagered the maximum bet, received the required combination of symbols (5 Yachts) on the payline,  but instead of a jackpot I received only 1000 credits.  I have received 2 explanations for this from BetSoft via Betcoin.ag's support staff.  The first said that the spin was ineligible for the jackpot because it was a bonus spin.  The evidence I use to refute this claim is the pay table which has no such language.  Nowhere does it state that a bonus spin is ineligible to win the jackpot.  Further the fact that I was paid 1000 credits proves that it was a maximum bet as the paytable shows that 5 yachts pays 200 credits x the number of bets per line.  In this case 5 (which is the maximum allowed).  200 x 5 = 1000 credits, thus proving a max bet.  The second explanation stated that a jackpot only occurs if the max bet is made at the highest denomination (1.00 credits), and I was only playing at the 0.50 denomination.  This is easily refuted by looking at the game itself.  The jackpot amount changes with the denomination played.  At the 0.50 denomination the jackpot is roughly 1,000,000 credits (See screen capture for exact disputed amount).  When the denomination is increased to 1.00 the jackpot doubles to approximately 2,0000,000 credits.  This clearly refutes the second explanation as the jackpot is variable by the denomination played, and not requiring a bet denomination of 1.00.  I am asking you to intervene in this matter and prove that you are a reputable gaming authority that does not tolerate unfair gaming practices by its licensees.  I have included screen captures for both the spin in question and for the stated pay table at the time the wager was made.

Respectfully yours,

Jason Ortmeier
2 Attachments
 
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June 20, 2016, 05:59:27 AM
 #16

Check out https://www.casinolistings.com/jackpots/betsoft/glam-life-jackpot

They track the jackpot on bodog for same game and list a seperate jackpot for each denom.

Pretty strong evidence you got at least one bullshit response from both Betcoin and Betsoft.

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June 20, 2016, 06:07:24 AM
 #17

Here is the chat transcript with support on the night of my wager.  Betcoin Aidan's opinion is that this should be paid.  He was aware that this was a bonus spin..


Chat started on 15 Jun 2016, 03:52 AM (GMT+0)
(03:52:14)   *** Jason joined the chat ***
(03:52:14)   Jason: I just got 5 Yachts in a row on Glam Life with Max Bet. Should have won Jackpot, but only got 1000 credits.
(03:53:20)   *** Betcoin Aidan joined the chat ***
(03:53:21)   Betcoin Aidan: Please kindly create a ticket so I can escalate it to management. Once completed please provide me the ticket number. https://www.betcoin.ag/node/add/ticket
(03:56:00)   Jason: Could we please handle this ASAP? This should have been a major jackpot win. I'm really upset. Ticket #57771
(03:56:12)   Jason: I have a screenshot of the win. How can I get it to you?
(03:56:28)   Betcoin Aidan: please upload it to imgur for example and post the link in the ticket
(03:56:37)   Jason: 1,007,249.91 Jackpot
(03:58:02)   Jason: http://imgur.com/UQxeVni
(03:58:10)   Betcoin Aidan: post it in the ticket please
(03:58:11)   Jason: Please take a look at it. I will post to ticket as well
(03:59:50)   Jason: Posted. Is there a manager on duty right now?
(04:00:12)   Betcoin Aidan: I am waiting for an answer, but it might take a while
(04:00:35)   Jason: Any chance they can join the chat?
(04:00:46)   Jason: Did you see screenshot?
(04:00:58)   Betcoin Aidan: Yes but you won't hear anything new, that has to be checked in casino backend by him
(04:01:43)   Jason: Why would it not pay Jackpot?
(04:02:02)   Betcoin Aidan: how could I know that yet
(04:02:08)   Betcoin Aidan: are you sure you made a max bet?
(04:02:28)   Jason: OK sorry. Yes check the bet line in the screenshot.
(04:04:45)   Jason: Any chance I could get the manager to call me? My cell phone number is 1-XXX-XXX-XXXX
(04:05:23)   Betcoin Aidan: I understand the hype, but my hands are tied at the moment. Once I receive an answer, I will inform you
(04:05:35)   Jason: OK
(04:16:04)   Jason: Were you able to get in touch with management?
(04:18:37)   Betcoin Aidan: not yet, I am sorry
(04:19:23)   Jason: This is horrible.
(04:20:37)   Jason: Has anyone at your casino ever won a major jackpot?
(04:20:59)   Betcoin Aidan: yes that happened a month ago or so
(04:21:06)   Jason: How much?
(04:22:15)   Betcoin Aidan: I am not really aware, was not during my shift
(04:23:15)   Jason: When you look at the picture do you think I should have won jackpot? I know it is just your opinion, but what do you think?
(04:30:12)   Jason: Still there?
(04:30:31)   Betcoin Aidan: Yes, I am sorry but I am serving 8 people at the moment
(04:31:03)   Jason: Sorry.
(04:47:43)   Jason: When you get a minute could you please look at the imgur screenshot? I would really value your opinion on whether you think this is a jackpot winning spin.
(04:48:23)   Betcoin Aidan: I am not aware with that slot, that is why I can't say.
(04:48:38)   Jason: OK
(05:18:00)   Betcoin Aidan: I investigated on my own and I see that you made the 5 yachts hit on a free spin round. I might mislead you but free spins are not counted as a maximum bet as it does not take anything from your balance.
(05:19:02)   Jason: Are you serious? I had Max bet on the table. Where does it say anything in the rules about that not counting?
(05:19:15)   Betcoin Aidan: As I said, I might not be correct
(05:19:32)   Betcoin Aidan: it is a tricky situation here and it is not me who got the 100% accurate and final word on that
(05:19:59)   Jason: When do managers arrive to your location?
(05:20:27)   Betcoin Aidan: they are not at my location, our office is in a different country
(05:20:46)   Jason: Where is the office? What time zone?
(05:21:03)   Betcoin Aidan: London
(05:21:14)   Jason: OK
(05:38:25)   Betcoin Aidan: my shift is now over, but I wrote a big review on this situation and forwarded it to our internal channel. It will be reviewed absolute prior once a supervisor pop up.
(05:38:56)   Jason: ok thank you
(05:39:19)   Betcoin Aidan: You are most welcome. This is quite rare situation so it might take some time, please keep that in mind
(05:39:56)   Jason: Maybe 1st time ever anyone hit 5 yachts
(05:40:32)   Betcoin Aidan: the problem is not the 5 yachts but the freespin round, as internally it counts as a 0 bet
(05:40:34)   Betcoin Aidan: since it is free
(05:40:58)   Betcoin Aidan: but my personal opinion is that it should be counted as max
(05:41:04)   Betcoin Aidan: since it was triggered with max bet
(05:41:05)   Jason: I have looked everywhere in rules. I does not way that
(05:41:14)   Jason: even on BetSoft Website
(05:41:33)   Jason: Does not say that free spins on max bet don't count
(05:42:29)   Betcoin Aidan: I understand and trust me I did everything I can. Now that is in my superiors hands and I believe and hope the resolution will be quick
(05:44:29)   Jason: Thank you Aidan
(05:44:36)   *** Jason has rated the chat Good ***
(05:48:10)   *** Betcoin Aidan left the chat ***
(06:53:45)   *** Jason left the chat ***

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June 20, 2016, 06:11:36 PM
 #18

I have to say it does look pretty scammy how Betcoin.ag refuse to take any responsibility in the matter and instantly attribute it to "being on Betsoft servers". Unless this "mistake" was a regular occurrence they should be backing you up on this when speaking with Betsoft. At the very least they need to contribute something and make it right. Unfortunately long term you have to avoid these sorts of sites and software, because they can all too easily be rigged against you like this.

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June 20, 2016, 06:35:20 PM
 #19

damn thats sick sure looks like you won the JP to me
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June 20, 2016, 08:40:20 PM
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Sad thing is this doesn't surprise me at all hearin this news.  If they dont pay OP i hope he burns betcoin rep thats only bc of all the shills to the ground so something good comes from it. Gonna happen some day anyway im sure.
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June 21, 2016, 05:36:23 PM
 #21

Well, I won one of those jackpots at Bodog (Bovada) and I began getting paid through WU within the week....it took sometime to get totally paid off because they had a $3,000 dollar weekly withdrawal limit.  However, the jackpot I won wasn't as large as yours but it was pretty substantial.  If this win was legit, I'm sure it'll be paid....If the game was played with promotional bonus credits and not a clean unattached deposit, then you might want to read the promotional credit terms and conditions  <---  That's a common oversite that negates many "big wins." Read the terms and conditions when taking any kind of bonus, deposit bonuses included, at any online casino. Anyway, if the win's legit, you'll be paid.

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June 22, 2016, 02:52:53 AM
 #22

Check out https://www.casinolistings.com/jackpots/betsoft/glam-life-jackpot

They track the jackpot on bodog for same game and list a seperate jackpot for each denom.

Pretty strong evidence you got at least one bullshit response from both Betcoin and Betsoft.

https://i.gyazo.com/c84251ad1e17d69edfddb9fcbbe81246.png

Hi there, I am the guy who runs CasinoListings.com and wrote the jackpot tracker you referenced there. I have been specifically looking into Betsoft jackpots over the past 9 months or so due to a complaint that a member of our forum posted about some of them being unwinnable. I have found some very interesting and disturbing stuff including a number of "bugs" and discrepancies with their games and jackpots that lead me to believe that, at a minimum, their software QA is awful. I have focused mainly on the game Good Girl Bad Girl because it appears to be the most popular and widely played Betsoft game. Specifically:

  • Jackpots on the exact same game, Good Girl Bad Girl, and the same coin size can be won with monotonous regularity (several times a week) for a couple hundred dollars at Slots.lv (sister site of Bovada), but have never been won and are worth 6 figures at Bovada, where the volume of play is higher.
  • Several jackpots that are regularly won for small amounts "spiked" during February-March this year and rose to several thousands at Bovada, only to all be won in a short space of time and resume their normal pattern. If it happened on one jackpot you could chalk it up to luck, but it happened on several independent jackpots at exactly the same time. This indicates that something changed in the game's RNG, code, or reel structure, and it was later changed back.
  • The jackpot contribution for Good Girl Bad Girl is being calculated incorrectly. The game allows you to play in Good Mode, Bad Mode, or both. If you play one or the other, 1% of your total bet goes to the jackpot. But if you play both, your total bet is doubled but so is the jackpot contribution so that 2% goes to the pot instead of 1%.
  • There are similar concerns about several other Betsoft games, across many other casinos (i.e. its pretty apparent that the casinos are not to blame)

My post here has data and graphs that illustrate these problems clearly.

Betsoft games have separate jackpot pools depending on the coin size wagered. So if the OP was playing a 50c coin size and bet max, they should win the jackpot pool that is specific and separate to 50c wagers. i.e. the amount shown at the top of the game. If you go into the game and change the coin size you will see the jackpot amount change. It is not the case that they need to be betting maximum credits and the maximum coin size to qualify for the jackpot.

This is probably not a bonus-related issue where the casino caps the amount you may win after a bonus is claimed. In those situations, the games are usually not aware of the bonus and they pay out normally. When the player withdraws they are paid the maximum allowed under the terms then the remaining balance is zeroed. You should never claim deposit bonuses with win caps, they are sucker offers. What I would like to know is for the OP to clarify whether they played with money they deposited, or whether they were playing with a "free chip" or "no deposit bonus".

So if the OP's screenshot is real and this did occur while he was betting the maximum number of credits (125) and he was playing with real money that he deposited, I believe he should be paid the jackpot in full. There is nothing on the paytable or game rules about the jackpot not being paid in free spins mode. That is bullshit of the highest order. As to why the game did not pay it, we can only speculate. It could be another Betsoft "bug" or it could be deliberate. Or this could all be a photoshopped scam (sorry OP, I've seen them before).

The reaction of the casino disappoints me because they should be looking after their customer. It will cost them nothing if this jackpot is paid out as it is pooled money paid for by players. In fact it would be great publicity for them if one of their payers won it. I am genuinely baffled by their unprofessional responses, they don't seem to be the sharpest tools in the shed.

One thing I know for sure is that Betsoft are a shady company. Someone already posted information about their licensing disqualification in Alderney. The support rep claiming that Betsoft is found at all the top online casinos is full of it. Most of the top tier internet casinos do not offer their games. They seem to have concentrated recently on marketing their games to crappy affiliate-run casinos (i.e. cheap, underfunded) and non-regulated bitcoin only casinos that have a high risk of disappearing overnight. After seeing the numbers from our jackpot tracker and now this post I have absolutely no confidence that they are running fair jackpots, either by design or by accident or sloppy programming.
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June 22, 2016, 03:12:58 AM
 #23

This was played with my own money that was deposited.  I never accept any deposit bonuses because of all the play through requirements.  I promise you this was not a doctored photo.  Reference the chat log where Betcoin staff acknowledge 5 yachts on the pay line.
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June 22, 2016, 03:50:40 AM
 #24

The jackpot contribution for Good Girl Bad Girl is being calculated incorrectly. The game allows you to play in Good Mode, Bad Mode, or both. If you play one or the other, 1% of your total bet goes to the jackpot. But if you play both, your total bet is doubled but so is the jackpot contribution so that 2% goes to the pot instead of 1%.
Where did you find the info listed on jackpot contribution?

Is there anywhere they have basic terms for progressives?  Like what it resets to, a list of Jackpots and which sites contribute to them?
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June 22, 2016, 04:12:19 AM
 #25

Thanks jasonort, that rules out the "capped bonus" excuse given by the casino support then. The reason I asked is that there are a small number of games where the provider blocks you from winning a progressive jackpot while you're playing with free bonus money.

Where did you find the info listed on jackpot contribution?

I worked out the jackpot contribution percentages myself using the network monitor in the Chrome browser. You can do it with Firebug or Fiddler as well. All you have to do is log in to the site you're checking and load the game. Then watch the network inspector - every few seconds it will query a Betsoft server for the current jackpot values. This is how they are updated in game. If you pick a time when no-one else is playing you can see that the same jackpot values are coming back with every update. Now make a spin and you will see a proportion of your bet amount gets added to the jackpot and you can work out the percentage. This works both in fun and real mode on Betsoft games (though the jackpot amounts are different of course).

Is there anywhere they have basic terms for progressives?  Like what it resets to, a list of Jackpots and which sites contribute to them?

Not that I have seen. I have emailed them a few times about the issues I have discovered and they never reply. You can usually work out the reset value by looking at the data or graph for a jackpot that has been won a few times and seeing what it consistently drops to when it is won.

Betsoft jackpots are specific to individual casinos or small groups of casinos run by the same operators. Bovada for example have different jackpot amounts at all their casinos instead of pooling them together. I don't think that Betsoft have any single pooled progressives that all their casinos contribute to. I don't know anything about Betcoin.ag but I am surprised that they have multi-million dollar jackpots on individual games given that they are a relative unknown in the casino industry. I assume that they must be pooled with some other casinos if they are legitimate, because I can't imagine that they have either turnover or funding that is anywhere near Bovada's for example.

One thing that bugs me about this is that if you're Betsoft and you don't want anyone to win your jackpot, wouldn't it be easier to just not let anyone spin five yachts in a row than to allow it and underpay them? This is why I can't rule out that they may be simply staffed with incompetent programmers who make very buggy games.

jasonort: I forgot to say that in my experience of several years of helping people in disputes with casinos, Curacao eGaming are utterly useless as a regulator. They are a rubber-stamping organisation, used primarily by operators trying to hide their identities and avoid paying tax in their home countries, that won't do anything to protect player interests or mediate in the event of a dispute. Their offical dispute resolution procedure is basically "sort it out yourself with the casino".
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June 22, 2016, 07:13:56 AM
 #26

I think it's been proven that the denomination excuse is not a valid one, this should prove that the free spin excuse is also not valid:


From the paytable of greedygoblins, another Betsoft Jackpot Game:


By clarifying the jackpot can not be multiplied, we conclude that free spins that are a result of a max bet are eligible to win the jackpot.   

In Glam Life, there are no such clarifications.
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June 22, 2016, 08:00:07 PM
 #27

Also worth noting is plo8monster (mod and official "site pro")

When the accusation was first made, he said this in the chat:

Quote
plo8monster: thats totally not true lol ungod ... the bonus max out at 1000chips, and the vendor has that rule .. betcoin dont pay it the vendor does ... you guys all jump on bandwagon ... but these are vendors that do sports and casino games ..... I dont have time to get into this tonight ...but the vendor limits bonus wins @ 1000 chips .... if he were spending his money and made that spin he would be Phat with coin

After more of the details emerged and it was clear most players did not agree with Betcoins stance he changed his tune:
Quote
plo8monster: i told you im not gonna to join that conversation ..im a poker pro smart enuf not to play slots ...i played maybe 10 times in my life
plo8monster: i am not knowledgable about slots
plo8monster: slots is not something i can help with i know zero about them
plo8monster: I had a roomate at that time playing my slots and showing me how with my bonuses ... but i am not a slots player
 plo8monster: why ya gotta be such a biiiish twitchy
plo8monster: this issue with Jason is NOT MY BUSINESS ... how many times must i tell you same thing it is waste of time

pathetic



Betcoin finally responds:

You fail to mention that jasonort plays at Betcoin.ag Casino frequently even after this and is well aware that these are Betsoft rules.  We also speak to him frequently and he very much enjoys the experience at Betcoin Casino over other bitcoin casinos.    Most of the top casinos feature Betsoft games and you play directly on the casinos servers under their rules and we pay out based on this and are credited on a big win such as this would have been.  It would have been awesome for us from a marketing perspective to announce this win, but it is not a jackpot win within Betsoft's rules as it is a free spin and not a max bet paid round according to Betsoft.  The result would have been the same on any other website. 
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June 22, 2016, 09:05:15 PM
 #28

This was played with my own money that was deposited.  I never accept any deposit bonuses because of all the play through requirements.  I promise you this was not a doctored photo.  Reference the chat log where Betcoin staff acknowledge 5 yachts on the pay line.

if u accept the bonus on betcoin you get the bonus money on the side and only that amount has a play through and you can do what ever with your real balance unless it changed
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June 22, 2016, 09:10:12 PM
 #29

im interested as i think this is valid jackpot how so betcoin.ag profile is not flagged red yet.? by trusted members of this forum
regards.
-Katerniko1

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June 22, 2016, 09:35:05 PM
 #30

Thanks jasonort, that rules out the "capped bonus" excuse given by the casino support then. The reason I asked is that there are a small number of games where the provider blocks you from winning a progressive jackpot while you're playing with free bonus money.

Where did you find the info listed on jackpot contribution?

I worked out the jackpot contribution percentages myself using the network monitor in the Chrome browser. You can do it with Firebug or Fiddler as well. All you have to do is log in to the site you're checking and load the game. Then watch the network inspector - every few seconds it will query a Betsoft server for the current jackpot values. This is how they are updated in game. If you pick a time when no-one else is playing you can see that the same jackpot values are coming back with every update. Now make a spin and you will see a proportion of your bet amount gets added to the jackpot and you can work out the percentage. This works both in fun and real mode on Betsoft games (though the jackpot amounts are different of course).

Is there anywhere they have basic terms for progressives?  Like what it resets to, a list of Jackpots and which sites contribute to them?

Not that I have seen. I have emailed them a few times about the issues I have discovered and they never reply. You can usually work out the reset value by looking at the data or graph for a jackpot that has been won a few times and seeing what it consistently drops to when it is won.

Betsoft jackpots are specific to individual casinos or small groups of casinos run by the same operators. Bovada for example have different jackpot amounts at all their casinos instead of pooling them together. I don't think that Betsoft have any single pooled progressives that all their casinos contribute to. I don't know anything about Betcoin.ag but I am surprised that they have multi-million dollar jackpots on individual games given that they are a relative unknown in the casino industry. I assume that they must be pooled with some other casinos if they are legitimate, because I can't imagine that they have either turnover or funding that is anywhere near Bovada's for example.

One thing that bugs me about this is that if you're Betsoft and you don't want anyone to win your jackpot, wouldn't it be easier to just not let anyone spin five yachts in a row than to allow it and underpay them? This is why I can't rule out that they may be simply staffed with incompetent programmers who make very buggy games.

jasonort: I forgot to say that in my experience of several years of helping people in disputes with casinos, Curacao eGaming are utterly useless as a regulator. They are a rubber-stamping organisation, used primarily by operators trying to hide their identities and avoid paying tax in their home countries, that won't do anything to protect player interests or mediate in the event of a dispute. Their offical dispute resolution procedure is basically "sort it out yourself with the casino".

What can we do to make sure jasonort gets what he is owed.  Betsoft needs to be held accountable!  Maybe Betsoft, and any of it's supporters, should be blacklisted from the market!  I personally trust betcoin.ag and Bodog (Bovada), but Betsoft needs to be dealt with in a strong handed manner....In fact, I'm feeling cheated now too and I want all the money back that I've spent playing on their software chasing those progressives! <--Not that I believe that would ever happen, but for jasonort, what can we do to put the hurt on these thieves?

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June 22, 2016, 10:16:52 PM
 #31

What can we do to make sure jasonort gets what he is owed.  Betsoft needs to be held accountable!  Maybe Betsoft, and any of it's supporters, should be blacklisted from the market!  I personally trust betcoin.ag and Bodog (Bovada), but Betsoft needs to be dealt with in a strong handed manner....In fact, I'm feeling cheated now too and I want all the money back that I've spent playing on their software chasing those progressives! <--Not that I believe that would ever happen, but for jasonort, what can we do to put the hurt on these thieves?

Spread the word, make sure players know what's going on.

Tell Betcoin that they should be helping Jason get paid,  if they want to keep your trust.

The more I dig the more I doubt these Jackpots are anything more than a gimmick.

Progessive Jackpots at Betcoin total over $5 million USD. Where is it?  If they were all hit tomorrow, what would happen? 

Why is there no RTP posted anywhere on any Betsoft game anywhere?
Why is there such a lack of transparency? 
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June 23, 2016, 07:21:35 AM
 #32

I have posted this on Betcoins forum.  Not happy with them and how they're representing my feelings of their handling of the situation.


https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=386266.msg15328859#msg15328859
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June 23, 2016, 10:43:16 PM
 #33

I have been trying unsuccessfully to get in touch with anyone at Betsoft on jasonort's behalf.

In the meantime we have published a warning recommending that people avoid playing all Betsoft games.

The article is long, so if you want the TLDR version with our reasoning:

1. Documented discrepancies in their progressive jackpot payouts between the same game on different casinos, and even the same game with different coin sizes. Some jackpots appear to be impossible to win.
2. jasonort's experience in not being paid a legitimate progressive jackpot win.
3. The revoking of their Alderney license in 2014.
4. Their RNG audit is worthless because it has a specific disclaimer that says that they did not test the results from any games that actually use the RNG.
5. While looking into this I found that back in 2010 they were busted running a cheating keno game at Absolute Poker that gave players no chance of winning at all. I was unaware of this before now.
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June 24, 2016, 12:58:21 AM
 #34

Ok I want to post this here to pre-empt the casino and/or Betsoft trying to use what I found as an excuse. I found a single Betsoft game - Slots Angels - that does specifically state that you can't win the jackpot in free spins mode. I believe that this is for two reasons: 1. the game makes the entire centre reel wild during free spins and 2. it has a feature where you can get a re-spin on an already winning spin to have a second chance of winning some more. I don' think that either of these things happen in The Glam Life.

http://i.imgur.com/SPEpoVM.jpg

The fact that there is one game that specifically states this rule, along with the evidence posted before from Greedy Goblins, clearly suggests that The Glam Life is not supposed to operate like that. If it was, Betsoft would surely have put the rule in the paytable like they did on Slots Angels.
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June 24, 2016, 01:17:19 AM
 #35

One reason that I can conceive that they do not want to pay out is that they are probably earning interest on the hundreds of thousands of dollars if not millions that they have on deposit.  Every time a progressive increases, they hit an accrual account to store the money (or at least they should if they are properly accounting for the jackpots).  These are probably invested in low risk investments and with millions of dollars that is not their own, they are making a really good return.  Paying out a few hundred thousand would put a damper on that return.


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June 24, 2016, 01:31:50 AM
 #36

One reason that I can conceive that they do not want to pay out is that they are probably earning interest on the hundreds of thousands of dollars if not millions that they have on deposit.  Every time a progressive increases, they hit an accrual account to store the money (or at least they should if they are properly accounting for the jackpots).  These are probably invested in low risk investments and with millions of dollars that is not their own, they are making a really good return.  Paying out a few hundred thousand would put a damper on that return.

In other words, you think they don't want to pay out because they want to have more money.

Yes, very possible.

Perhaps you could ask Betcoin to respond to this thread.  They seem to be ignoring most, but they pay you so maybe they won't ignore you.
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June 24, 2016, 05:35:53 AM
 #37

I have asked Betcoin.ag to respond publicly in this thread. I honestly would really like to hear what their perspective is on this.  Most importantly I would like to know definitively whether they feel that I should be paid the jackpot by BetSoft.  Let's wait and see if they respond, or if they continue to bury their head in the sand an hope it goes away.
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June 24, 2016, 09:23:38 AM
 #38

Well if they do respond, I'd also like to know who is holding the progressive jackpot money - the casino or Betsoft?
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June 24, 2016, 07:05:21 PM
 #39

So overall this is what I conclude.

1. User deposits money wins the 5 combinations to win a jackpot
2. Poor wording on the jackpot elgible factors (based on the casinos terms) or doesnt have that bitcoin to payout to begin with flips it over on their wording?
3. User gets screwed
4.  Casino still keeps the money and doesnt payout and look shady as hell.

Cause the picture on what the OP has shows a clear win.. so i dont see why they shouldnt pay this dude out. Unless hes been caught previously cheating on the casino in other games then thats a different story.

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June 24, 2016, 07:16:44 PM
 #40

Check out https://www.casinolistings.com/jackpots/betsoft/glam-life-jackpot

They track the jackpot on bodog for same game and list a seperate jackpot for each denom.

Pretty strong evidence you got at least one bullshit response from both Betcoin and Betsoft.



Hi there, I am the guy who runs CasinoListings.com and wrote the jackpot tracker you referenced there. I have been specifically looking into Betsoft jackpots over the past 9 months or so due to a complaint that a member of our forum posted about some of them being unwinnable. I have found some very interesting and disturbing stuff including a number of "bugs" and discrepancies with their games and jackpots that lead me to believe that, at a minimum, their software QA is awful. I have focused mainly on the game Good Girl Bad Girl because it appears to be the most popular and widely played Betsoft game. Specifically:

There is some pretty substantial evidence here that some sort of foul play is at hand. Betcoin.ag has been suspiciously absent in this thread. If Betsoft has these kinds of allegations against them, Betcoin is acting complicity in the foul play by keeping their games up on their site. IMO Betcoin.ag should have to payout the jackpot, since the rules didn't explicitly state that jackpot couldn't be won on a bonus spin.
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June 24, 2016, 07:31:35 PM
 #41

The only place Betcoin has posted is in the shill campaign thread:

We still have some spots open for select members in our great campaign and want to thank everyone for their interest.  Also, please keep up the great, high quality posts, we appreciate your involvement!
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June 24, 2016, 11:40:47 PM
 #42

I have been in contact with Betcoin.  They should be posting to this thread a public response.  They will support that I hit the 5 yachts on a free spin.  They are caught in the middle of this.  BetSoft is the decision maker in this matter.  They are the ones who need to pay.  As it was explained to me, and I do believe Betcoin, when you play a BetSoft game you are directly connected to their servers.  All wins are paid by them directly to your account at the casino.  All casinos who use their games receive a percentage of player losses.  It works like an affiliate program.  You bring BetSoft the players, and in return receive a percentage of their losses.  Betcoin basically has no control or say in matters like this.  All payouts come directly from BetSoft.  So to all of you out there reading this how can I get BetSoft to pay?
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June 25, 2016, 12:37:00 AM
 #43

I have reported months ago on this very forum that Betsoft are cheats and crooked. Just play their blackjack games and you'll understand why. It comes as no surprise to me that their slots are also crooked and don't pay out the jackpots as advertised. I would never trust another Betsoft game. Sucks for the OP there likely is going to be no good resolution out of this. One the betcoin.ag casino license is meaningless. Two, the Betsoft are never going to admit this game should have paid jackpot and dish out several hundred K to the player. Thats not their style, instead its to cheat players and steal money by running crooked games.

Bets off with Betsoft.
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June 25, 2016, 12:39:05 AM
 #44

I have been in contact with Betcoin.  They should be posting to this thread a public response.  They will support that I hit the 5 yachts on a free spin.  They are caught in the middle of this.  BetSoft is the decision maker in this matter.  They are the ones who need to pay.  As it was explained to me, and I do believe Betcoin, when you play a BetSoft game you are directly connected to their servers.  All wins are paid by them directly to your account at the casino.  All casinos who use their games receive a percentage of player losses.  It works like an affiliate program.  You bring BetSoft the players, and in return receive a percentage of their losses.  Betcoin basically has no control or say in matters like this.  All payouts come directly from BetSoft.  So to all of you out there reading this how can I get BetSoft to pay?

Get Betcoin to quit throwing you under the bus in other threads.

There is an open scam accusation regarding Betcoin.ag that hasn't been addressed properly. They seem to replying here so posting in this thread for further exposure. Would reconsider joining the campaign of a site with an open scam accusation and questionable game provider.

Scam accusation here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1517648

This is not a scam accusation against Betcoin.ag.  Jasonort is making a scam accusation against Betsoft and wanting us to help him more with his claim after Betsoft informed the player that a free spin doesn't qualify for the jackpot.  We have contacted Betsoft for the player on multiple occasions.  It would actually be in our benefit if jasonort won and we would have done a nice marketing campaign out of this with an interview, pictures and a lot more.  If he won, Betsoft would have paid the player's Betcoin accounts directly and we but according to Betsoft's rules a free spin doesn't qualify for the bonus.  This would be the same outcome at any online casino and we are very small client for Betsoft.  We didn't receive any benefit from this and had the player qualified for the jackpot and Betsoft paid out the jackpot, player would already have the funds.  We should note that jasonort knows that this dispute is with Betsoft and has made that very clear since day 1.  Jasonort knows that we are here for him and all of our great players anytime.  

Just play their blackjack games and you'll understand why.

This type of accusation will only give Betsoft ammunition to defend themselves.  We need evidence.
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June 25, 2016, 05:40:48 AM
 #45

I loaded up a casino (not betcoin.ag) with betsoft slots to have a look at the Glam Life paytable and it differs from the earlier screen shot in that it states that Jackpot cannot be won during any other bonus feature. Has Betsoft added this in after the fact now to cover themselves?


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June 25, 2016, 05:47:08 AM
 #46

This is bullshit of the highest order.  Of course they changed it after I have inundated them with emails to their support, and any other employee I could find the email address for.  I have yet to get a response from them.  This just shows that they screwed up in not having this language there before.  Obviously they are covering their tracks.  But my screenshots don't lie.  When I was playing this language was not there.  They should pay me this jackpot.
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June 25, 2016, 05:48:54 AM
 #47

This is bullshit of the highest order.  Of course they changed it after I have inundated them with emails to their support, and any other employee I could find the email address for.  I have yet to get a response from them.  This just shows that they screwed up in not having this language there before.  Obviously they are covering their tracks.  But my screenshots don't lie.  When I was playing this language was not there.  They should pay me this jackpot.

da fuq?

Even the terms they changed it to, "any other bonus feature" are only making things more ambiguous than before.

So it can be won on some?

Seriously shady shit.

The screen shots quoted in first reply were taken by me and not doctored in any way whatsoever.

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June 25, 2016, 06:20:18 AM
 #48

This is bullshit of the highest order.  Of course they changed it after I have inundated them with emails to their support, and any other employee I could find the email address for.  I have yet to get a response from them.  This just shows that they screwed up in not having this language there before.  Obviously they are covering their tracks.  But my screenshots don't lie.  When I was playing this language was not there.  They should pay me this jackpot.

da fuq?

Even the terms they changed it to, "any other bonus feature" are only making things more ambiguous than before.

So it can be won on some?

Seriously shady shit.

The screen shots quoted in first reply were taken by me and not doctored in any way whatsoever.



I know you didn't doctor anything Twitchy. Bovada from their Poker Client you can access The Glam Life and it still shows the outdated paytable. However, you can't access the game on Bovadas main website because they have pulled The Glam Life and several other progressive Betsoft slots due to other unrelated malicious shenanigans involving the progressive meters.

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June 25, 2016, 06:34:21 AM
 #49

I would consider also that BITCOIN.AG IS SCAMMING!
My Balance suddely dissaperd after a Big Winning. And the Support says to me everything is ok. Huh

lol.. Be aware Guys. Dont loose your Money to them!

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June 25, 2016, 06:53:58 AM
 #50

I am sorry to hear that its a huge jackpot and i think its hard to pay it if you win it.. and i think its impossible to get it right now or they give the jackpot only half of it.. good luck and i hope betcoin can do fair to you..

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June 25, 2016, 07:06:59 AM
 #51

they will simply just steal his money like they did on me! Wink Undecided Cry

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June 25, 2016, 08:23:40 AM
 #52

One reason that I can conceive that they do not want to pay out is that they are probably earning interest on the hundreds of thousands of dollars if not millions that they have on deposit.  Every time a progressive increases, they hit an accrual account to store the money (or at least they should if they are properly accounting for the jackpots).  These are probably invested in low risk investments and with millions of dollars that is not their own, they are making a really good return.  Paying out a few hundred thousand would put a damper on that return.

This is very possible. The downfall of these companies is usually their arrogance in the face of public opinion. If you annoy enough people and the regulators eventually become aware of it, they are likely to suffer for this fraud. I think Betcoin are absolutely responsible here, if you are using a white label solution then you better be damn sure it is all correct and legitimate or you shouldn't use it. They will be paying BIG amounts to Betsoft to license this software, possibly on a monthly or annual basis, so are very much condoning what is happening here. Betsoft is hiding behind their "offshore" jurisdiction but this protection has been burst many times in the past and jail time may be coming to them if you persist.

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June 27, 2016, 04:33:02 PM
 #53

BetSoft has been getting killed in the court of public opinion.  Both Bovada and slots.lv have quietly removed the progressive Jackpot Games from their site.  Here are some of the articles and forum posts on this:
 
http://www.gpwa.org/forum/casinolistings-issues-betsoft-gaming-warning-227986.html
 
https://www.casinolistings.com/news/2016/06/warning-avoid-all-betsoft-slots-and-casino-games
 
http://vegasclick.com/online/betsoft-jackpot-issue
 
http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/showthread.php?t=71002
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June 29, 2016, 12:14:54 PM
 #54

http://www.latestcasinobonuses.com/article/warning-betsoft-progressives-problem
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June 29, 2016, 12:19:59 PM
 #55


Nice!  Building awareness here!  That's how it's done!  I hope Betsoft gets right....but we've all seen how that goes once these places force the issue....However, they do have some of the better software so maybe they'll try to salvage their reputation, fix their ways, and pay jason.

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June 29, 2016, 01:52:53 PM
 #56

This is bullshit of the highest order.  Of course they changed it after I have inundated them with emails to their support, and any other employee I could find the email address for.  I have yet to get a response from them.  This just shows that they screwed up in not having this language there before.  Obviously they are covering their tracks.  But my screenshots don't lie.  When I was playing this language was not there.  They should pay me this jackpot.

I checked. It does appear on the Paytable now.


I Googled The Glam Life Paytable, and the first image I got:



At this rate they would soon be adding "No bet can win more than the bet amount"...
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June 30, 2016, 06:41:19 PM
 #57

Here are the three versions of the games pay schedule that I've seen over the past few days:





Also, caught Betcoin demonstrating their remarkable lack of both ethics and intelligence.

Betcoins Terms as of 13 Apr 2016 08:10:37 UTC: https://archive.is/GntG5

The Same Terms as of today, 30 Jun 2016 18:17:27 UTC: https://archive.is/W0wVZ

Live Version: https://www.betcoin.ag/node/3549

They added these two sentences after Jason hit the jackpot.

Quote
Bonus round and free spins do not qualify for the jackpot bonuses pursuant to casino software provider rules. Only real money rounds qualify for the jackpot bonuses.








I personally trust betcoin.ag

How about now?
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June 30, 2016, 06:45:45 PM
 #58

disgusting
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June 30, 2016, 08:52:03 PM
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Nice find Twitchy. You gotta love that; Change the Terms of Service but make it look like it was always that way by not changing the Last Updated date. That is criminal all by itself. Probably took those idiots a whole lot of time to figure out how to do that too.
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June 30, 2016, 09:32:53 PM
 #60

Wow, because a player hits and they re-word the terms of service just like that..

It shows to never ever play on that site lol.

Thats seriously some shady crap though and its amazing they still havent replied back on here based on the response here. Which doesnt make it any better on their rep.

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June 30, 2016, 10:37:45 PM
 #61

Most unprofessional bitcoin casino. Nice find Twichy!

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July 01, 2016, 01:38:41 AM
 #62

HOF comment from Betcoin chat

Betcoin Andrew: The last comment I am allowed to make on this is jasonort is very happy with the way we have vigorously handled the matter.
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July 01, 2016, 01:47:21 AM
 #63

HOF comment from Betcoin chat

Betcoin Andrew: The last comment I am allowed to make on this is jasonort is very happy with the way we have vigorously handled the matter.

And why haven't we heard that from him? How have they vigorously handled it when they completely blew him off until he started to make big waves on all the casino sites? According to jasonort, Betcoin was supposed to call him yesterday. He said he would be back and let everyone know how it went. He has not been back that I know of. So, if he is very happy does that mean that they did call him? If so then why hasn't he been back to let everyone know what happened? Is Betcoin making him keep quiet? Too many unanswered questions.
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July 01, 2016, 01:54:13 AM
 #64

Betcoin Andrew: The last comment I am allowed to make on this is jasonort is very happy with the way we have vigorously handled the matter.
And why haven't we heard that from him?
He has not been back that I know of.
Why hasn't he been back to let everyone know what happened?
Is Betcoin making him keep quiet?
My guess: Government trained assassins.



(I had to laugh a bit on the "vigorously" part, given that they are a no-show in this and countless other threads regarding similar circumstances.)


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July 02, 2016, 08:12:18 AM
 #65

If you wanna know the truth why you haven't heard from Jason, its because he was probably "paid off" by Betcoin to simply shut up about it. This topic has drastically killed their marketing and player base. I'm sure that Jason and Betcoin talked it out, and decided on a number (much smaller than the jackpot) for him to just stop talking.
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July 02, 2016, 08:57:56 AM
 #66

If you wanna know the truth why you haven't heard from Jason, its because he was probably "paid off" by Betcoin to simply shut up about it. This topic has drastically killed their marketing and player base. I'm sure that Jason and Betcoin talked it out, and decided on a number (much smaller than the jackpot) for him to just stop talking.

Hopefully they are trying to find 500+ bitcoin to pay Jason.  

The fact that Jason has gone quiet probably means communication has been made, just not a resolution.

Betcoin has completely changed their tune from: (I'm paraphrasing here)

"Of course Jason didn't win. Any casino would agree with us, it's not our fault, we're just following the rules (that don't exist) usually players understand this, we wonder why Jason doesn't?"

To:

Don't worry about the spammers guys.  They also help drive traffic to Betcoin.ag and keep our thread at the top.  

As the forum rep, all we can say right now is that jasonort has continued to play at Betcoin everyday since his Betsoft issue and we have worked very hard for him on this.  We will always do what is right for our players and there will be more information to follow.  We have not talked publicly about the matter because it just leads to speculation and trolling which is not productive or conducive to progress.  This happened to jasonort and he still plays with us almost everyday.  We would have done the same for all of our great players.  

On another note, our traffic and play has been very solid in all aspects and we want to thank all of your for your support and involvement in our program.  Another stage coming soon!
(I'm the spammer they are referring to by the way)

Thats right, they have claimed "We have not talked publicly about the matter"

Despite over a week ago sig campaign thread:

Most of the top casinos feature Betsoft games and you play directly on the casinos servers under their rules and we pay out based on this and are credited on a big win such as this would have been.  It would have been awesome for us from a marketing perspective to announce this win, but it is not a jackpot win within Betsoft's rules as it is a free spin and not a max bet paid round according to Betsoft.  The result would have been the same on any other website.  

Or 3 days after Jason hit the jackpot:






More recently in their chat room:



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July 02, 2016, 09:08:26 AM
 #67

Eww. It's always so disgusting when a casino refuses to pay out a jackpot when they can easily afford to do so, and people have been losing on their site for years and years.

Hopefully you can get your coins back, but seriously the amount seems way too high. Good luck.
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July 02, 2016, 09:24:42 AM
 #68

Jason ain't responding again. He might have been bribed with say 50k $

CERTIFIED CASINO CRITIC. DONT TALK ABOUT GAMBLING IF YOU AINT A *HIGH ROLLER* GAMBLER
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July 02, 2016, 01:26:34 PM
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Jason ain't responding again. He might have been bribed with say 50k $

And probably forced to sign an NDA, either with Betsoft, Betcoin or both.
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July 02, 2016, 03:04:18 PM
 #70

Jason ain't responding again. He might have been bribed with say 50k $

And probably forced to sign an NDA. Either with Betsoft, Betcoin or both.

That NDA would be pretty useless since they would have to consent to whatever jurisdiction Jason lives in to enforce it.
(it could only be enforced by a court in his country)


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July 03, 2016, 05:44:28 PM
 #71

Jason ain't responding again. He might have been bribed with say 50k $

And probably forced to sign an NDA. Either with Betsoft, Betcoin or both.

That NDA would be pretty useless since they would have to consent to whatever jurisdiction Jason lives in to enforce it.
(it could only be enforced by a court in his country)

I don't have any clue then why he hasn't said a word since he was supposed to get a call from Betcoin.
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July 03, 2016, 06:39:37 PM
 #72

I'm going to speculate and guess they're trying to buy time to work something out with the provision that if he comes forward, they aren't going to give him anything.

It's extremely shady not to be as transparent as possible in this matter especially when it's such good publicity if you're actually keeping your word and paying it out.   I doubt this is the case by what's been happening.
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July 05, 2016, 11:17:23 PM
 #73

Just got an Email from Bovada and they are disabling all their Betsoft games until they can figure out what to do about the problems with the Betsoft software.  They're acknowledging there's a problem and they are investigating the situation.

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July 06, 2016, 10:26:00 PM
 #74

We wanted to update everyone with the great news after a tremendous amount of hard work by the Betcoin.ag Staff.

Jasonort Case Resolution

From the very second our great player jasonort came to us with his casino related issue, Betcoin.ag took immediate action working with the software provider to understand, explain and then complete a proper resolution of the matter. We were asked and chose to remain silent on the matter to the public because statements would only cause speculation which would not be conducive to what we believed would be a proper outcome.

The Betcoin.ag staff spent hours every day working and speaking with jasonort and the software provider to do what we thought was right for our great players. It took just over two weeks and many hours to complete what all parties believe is a proper and fair resolution. We would have it no other way.

Throughout this entire process jasonort can attest to the fact that the Betcoin.ag staff made ourselves available nearly 24/7 to answer every question and provide proper updates when available as we would have done for all of our great players. jasonort was also clear to never blame Betcoin.ag for this issue as this was clearly a software issue and would have happened on any other online casino.

As a result of the speculation however our reputation has taken a hit in this forum but we know that we did the right thing here and will always continue to do so. Throughout this entire circumstance jasonort continued to play at Betcoin.ag and so did many new and old Betcoin.ag players. We are very thankful for that.

We will always do the right thing at Betcoin.ag for our great players and we look forward to being your favorite place to play for many years to come. Thank you!

We will be holding a fireside chat in the Betcoin player chat with jasonort to discuss at 6:30pm EST.  Thank you all.  

During the fireside chat, Jasonort has announced a self funded  Thank You Freeroll that Betcoin Poker will match which will take place on Sunday, July 24, 2016.  Details to follow!  Mark your calendars!

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July 06, 2016, 10:55:09 PM
 #75

I am pleased to say that this matter has been resolved to my satisfaction by all parties involved. Responsibility has been taken by Betcoin.ag for lack of clarification from their customer support, Betsoft has acknowledged that the wording on the pay table may have been cause for misunderstanding with respect to jackpot eligibility. Both parties have been very helpful and cooperative in resolving this and made the necessary adjustments.
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July 06, 2016, 10:55:10 PM
 #76

We will be holding a fireside chat in the Betcoin player chat with jasonort to discuss at 6:30pm EST.  Thank you all.  


How about a fireside chat somewhere that you can't bribe, ban and censor users based on what they say?

Or will you continue to pick and choose what you respond to and ignore the rest?
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July 07, 2016, 12:22:49 AM
 #77

We will be holding a fireside chat in the Betcoin player chat with jasonort to discuss at 6:30pm EST.  Thank you all.  


How about a fireside chat somewhere that you can't bribe, ban and censor users based on what they say?

Or will you continue to pick and choose what you respond to and ignore the rest?

Were you at the fireside chat?

I personally would like to see details of what deal was made to jasonrt. Personally the fact that nothing is being handled publically shows the lack of professionalism by betcoin and betsoft. With them also crying in previous post about their rep taking a hit is hilarious.

To betcoin.ag your rep took a hit because you guys decided to take it upon yourselves to handle this in a totally unacceptable way. Sure you can claim jasonrt is happy. Id be happy too if i went from getting 0 of what i legitimately won to getting something(who knows what that something is).

Bottom line DO NOT PLAY at betcoin as youll obviously be fucked over n have to settle for less than expected.

 "This settlement is confidential, so please don't ask the details." This is a direct quote from jasonrt on the betcoin ag website. Basically confirming he was paid to shut up.

Jason imglad you got some money out of the deal but im pretty sure id hit the withdrawal button and run before they fuck you outta some more money

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July 07, 2016, 12:48:58 AM
 #78

We will be holding a fireside chat in the Betcoin player chat with jasonort to discuss at 6:30pm EST.  Thank you all.  


How about a fireside chat somewhere that you can't bribe, ban and censor users based on what they say?

Or will you continue to pick and choose what you respond to and ignore the rest?

Were you at the fireside chat?

I personally would like to see details of what deal was made to jasonrt. Personally the fact that nothing is being handled publically shows the lack of professionalism by betcoin and betsoft. With them also crying in previous post about their rep taking a hit is hilarious.

To betcoin.ag your rep took a hit because you guys decided to take it upon yourselves to handle this in a totally unacceptable way. Sure you can claim jasonrt is happy. Id be happy too if i went from getting 0 of what i legitimately won to getting something(who knows what that something is).

Bottom line DO NOT PLAY at betcoin as youll obviously be fucked over n have to settle for less than expected.

 "This settlement is confidential, so please don't ask the details." This is a direct quote from jasonrt on the betcoin ag website. Basically confirming he was paid to shut up.

Jason imglad you got some money out of the deal but im pretty sure id hit the withdrawal button and run before they fuck you outta some more money

No, I am banned from Betcoin.

I often create new accounts to talk to other Betcoin players, but as soon as management notices I'm there they ban the account and delete anything I've said from all archives.  (fireside chat would be bad time to create new account for me)

Posting these questions to Jason in each thread Betcoin decided to share their "resolution" 



Jason,

I'm glad you got paid something but obviously it was not the 505+ BTC jackpot. 

1)  How much did you get?

2)  Was your voice here on the forum part of the negotiations?  ( Translate: have you been paid to post nice things about Betcoin )

3)  Will you continue to play Glam Life? 

4)  Will you continue to play the other progressive jackpot slots provided by Betsoft?

5)  Do you support Betcoins decision to continue offering these games, unlike Bovada, Slots.lv, Bitcasino.io, Vegascasino.io and any other site who removed them after learning of your experience?
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July 07, 2016, 02:30:44 PM
 #79

We wanted to update everyone with the great news after a tremendous amount of hard work by the Betcoin.ag Staff.

Jasonort Case Resolution

blah blah bullshit blah

That is one of the lamest things that I have ever had the misfortune of reading. While you're busy talking this crap and paying off poor Jason (who is in a no-win situation) to shut up, other casinos are busy dropping Betsoft's crooked games completely. It is clear that neither you nor Betsoft has paid this jackpot that Jason won, so you're just as bad as each other. You could have stood up for your player and done the right thing and applied some pressure to Betsoft and compelled them to pay but you didn't. You wimped out and sadly for you have ruined your reputation in the process.

Casino Listings will continue to actively warn people against playing at your casino because you simply cannot be trusted.
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July 07, 2016, 08:10:33 PM
 #80

Looks like Betcoin.ag finally changed the "Last updated" on their ToS.

Known alts of actmyname (unofficial list by members with -2 trust or more): DarkStar_, Lauda, Lutpin, The Pharmacist, satoshi, theymos, thermos, the Monopoly man, Charlie Sheen, Shaquille O'Neal/s
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July 07, 2016, 08:13:15 PM
 #81

Looks like Betcoin.ag finally changed the "Last updated" on their ToS.

Everything we all hate about fiat money casinos in a bitcoin one.

All around scammy behavior, how many accounts do they have on this forum?

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Lutpin
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July 07, 2016, 10:31:24 PM
 #82

Everything we all hate about fiat money casinos in a bitcoin one.
All around scammy behavior, how many accounts do they have on this forum?
Well, let's count. There's those of course:
BetcoinSports
Betcoin.AG

Then there's aswell:
BetcoinPoker
Betcoin Sports
BetcoinPartners

Maybe those are theirs, maybe not:
BetcoinCasino
Betcoin Gaming

And that's just the ones being named BetcoinXYZ.



Looks like Betcoin.ag finally changed the "Last updated" on their ToS.
And it only needed a negative feedback for them to do that.
You'd think countless posts by Twitchy pointing it out would be sufficient. Turns out, they aren't.


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July 07, 2016, 10:48:41 PM
 #83

Everything we all hate about fiat money casinos in a bitcoin one.
All around scammy behavior, how many accounts do they have on this forum?
Well, let's count. There's those of course:
BetcoinSports
Betcoin.AG

Then there's aswell:
BetcoinPoker
Betcoin Sports
BetcoinPartners

Maybe those are theirs, maybe not:
BetcoinCasino
Betcoin Gaming

And that's just the ones being named BetcoinXYZ.



Looks like Betcoin.ag finally changed the "Last updated" on their ToS.
And it only needed a negative feedback for them to do that.
You'd think countless posts by Twitchy pointing it out would be sufficient. Turns out, they aren't.

Don't forget these: (I ran them out of town a few months ago)
ftwbtc1
noobtc


https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1322261.0  <---scroll about half way down op to "Betcoin Shill Section" to connect ftwbtc1 to noobtc
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1365849.0 <---- ftwbtc1 = Betcoin Jessica

If anyone ever wonders what happens when a shill is reported to the manager of the sig campaign sponsered by the actual shill:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1236667.msg13963263#msg13963263
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1236667.msg13964901#msg13964901
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July 09, 2016, 03:32:33 AM
 #84

https://www.casinolistings.com/news/2016/07/betcoin-ag-betsoft-force-shafted-jackpot-winner-into-agreement

Owner of Casinolistings commented:

Quote
I feel sorry for Jason. He's been placed in the position where he either gets whatever small amount they paid him off with or nothing. The casino is unregulated and unaccountable and Betsoft's games are crooked, so what is he going to do?

The casino's statement above almost makes me vomit in my mouth. I've added Betcoin.ag to our blacklist today. They will remain there until such time as Jason is paid his full million mBTC win (i.e. most likely forever).

Also, as far as Bovada goes, they just released another statement (well email) explaining how they would deal with the missing progressive jackpot funds:



Quote
As promised, we have news for you regarding our recent changes to our casino game lineup and the resulting impact to our progressive jackpot offering. We know how popular some of these progressive jackpot games are for our players and so to help make up for those games, over the coming weeks we'll be adding extra amounts in total of $1.25M to a number of our own jackpot games.    
    Today, the three games below will have these amounts added to their current progressive jackpots:   
    For desktop players:
•   Food Fight: $185,000
•   Super Diamond Mine: $125,000   
    For mobile and download:
•   Jackpot Piñatas: $187,500
On Monday July 11, we will begin to distribute another $750,000 across select games by increasing the starting jackpot amounts from $1000 to $5000 per jackpot, and matching jackpot contributions by an additional 1% per wager. This will continue until the $750,000 figure has been met.   
    The games offering these elevated jackpots are:
•   Bulletproof Babes
•   Sevens and Stripes
•   Caesar's Empire
•   Aztec's Treasure
•   Cleopatra's Gold
•   Dirty Martini   
    We thank you for your continued support, please stay tuned for exciting new game releases in the coming months as we continue our search to provide you with games of the highest possible quality and entertainment.    
    Sincerely,


Bovada Customer Service
service@bovada.lv
1-888-263-0000   

     You are subscribed to promotional mailings. We respect your privacy and you can unsubscribe any time. To report abuse, please contact abuse@bovada.lv.

BOVADA is a registered trademark. All Rights Reserved.

P.O. Box 2190, Kahnawake, QC, J0L 1B0.      

EDM-17511

In case anyone is curious, Betcoin is currently advertising a total of BTC4,215.7 worth of progressives. (Almost $2.8million usd)

However, when you go into the games and add up each individual denomination jackpot, you get BTC2,978.5  (Just under $2million usd)









Other relevant stuff:

Betcoin confirmed they were paying out as of Jan 2014 when player noticed "progressive: no".:

Ok I'm trying this out.  I'm waiting on deposit to confirm.

I notice when I click progressives on the top of screen I'm taken to some slot options.  Then if I hover over the slots it says "progressive: no".  are they progressive payout or not?

edit:  my deposit has a confirmation but it still shows that I have the balance but it's not available
What is your username?  You can pm us if you wish.  Deposits are instant with zero confirmations.  

The progressives are definitely paying out.  We are looking into this right now.  

Since then I believe exactly one progressive has been hit.  It's been 2 years since.

Congratulations to www.BetcoinCasino.com's btc2014 who scored a 3,800 mbtc progressive jackpot at 3D Slot Greedy Goblins.  The progressives have now reached 443,268.85 mbtc at www.BetcoinCasino.com.  Come win some bitcoin today.



http://www.betcoincasino.com/games/progressive
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July 09, 2016, 06:14:21 AM
 #85

I am pleased to say that this matter has been resolved to my satisfaction by all parties involved. Responsibility has been taken by Betcoin.ag for lack of clarification from their customer support, Betsoft has acknowledged that the wording on the pay table may have been cause for misunderstanding with respect to jackpot eligibility. Both parties have been very helpful and cooperative in resolving this and made the necessary adjustments.

Nice!  Does that mean Betsoft is off the hook?....or, did you sign a ND in those regards?  Anyhow, congratulations on getting something....we can't let the bad guys ruin it for everyone!  Great campaign to expose them.  I hope it was a fair settlement!

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July 09, 2016, 06:19:12 AM
 #86

I am pleased to say that this matter has been resolved to my satisfaction by all parties involved. Responsibility has been taken by Betcoin.ag for lack of clarification from their customer support, Betsoft has acknowledged that the wording on the pay table may have been cause for misunderstanding with respect to jackpot eligibility. Both parties have been very helpful and cooperative in resolving this and made the necessary adjustments.

Nice!  Does that mean Betsoft is off the hook?....or, did you sign a ND in those regards?  Anyhow, congratulations on getting something....we can't let the bad guys ruin it for everyone!  Great campaign to expose them.  I hope it was a fair settlement!

Are you really that retarded cjmoles?
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July 09, 2016, 06:20:15 AM
 #87

I am pleased to say that this matter has been resolved to my satisfaction by all parties involved. Responsibility has been taken by Betcoin.ag for lack of clarification from their customer support, Betsoft has acknowledged that the wording on the pay table may have been cause for misunderstanding with respect to jackpot eligibility. Both parties have been very helpful and cooperative in resolving this and made the necessary adjustments.
Nice!  Does that mean Betsoft is off the hook?....or, did you sign a ND in those regards?  Anyhow, congratulations on getting something....we can't let the bad guys ruin it for everyone!  Great campaign to expose them.  I hope it was a fair settlement!
Are you really that retarded cjmoles?
Probably needs to put their conscience at rest, as they still are advertising betcoin.ag...
"The bad guys" are including the company you are featuring in both, your signature and your avatar,
or how can you explain yourself that they didn't yet drop all BetSoft software/games from their site?


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July 09, 2016, 07:03:11 AM
 #88

I think jasonrt said that he had reached a settlement.
A "settlement" means less than what he was obligated to receive.

I just hope that jasonrt got a fair settlement
Do you think anything less than the full amount of what was advertised to him would be "fair"?
How would you judge this situation, if you were robbed of your winning, which have been achieved fairly according to the back then running rules?

however, he seems to be satisfied with the result.
He's gotten something, probably that's better than getting nothing at all. Doesn't change the situation though, he had to settle for less than what he should get.

As for the Betcoin's signature and Avatar. It's no secret that I support Betcoin.ag. I have been playing with them a long time and they've always been more than fair with me.
Yet there are so many problems every now and then surfacing with them, this thread only being one of them.

As far as dropping the Betsoft software: I don't know the details of the settlement discussions but I trust Betcoin.ag's judgement. 
ALL reputable competitors have dropped BetSoft games immediately after hearing about this and similar issues with the provider.
Regardless of the settlement, can you really stand behind the decision of betcoin not to do the same?


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July 09, 2016, 08:32:42 AM
 #89


Since then I believe exactly one progressive has been hit.  It's been 2 years since.

Congratulations to www.BetcoinCasino.com's btc2014 who scored a 3,800 mbtc progressive jackpot at 3D Slot Greedy Goblins.  The progressives have now reached 443,268.85 mbtc at www.BetcoinCasino.com.  Come win some bitcoin today.



http://www.betcoincasino.com/games/progressive

Are you saying that a user called "btc2014" won the only jackpot paid out in the last 2 years or am I reading that totally wrong? Now if I did read it right, it seems like a stunningly generic and hastily made up fake account that "won the jackpot". Out of all the usernames in the world, the winner of a jackpot bitcoin payout in 2014 was called "btc2014" and not one of the million random usernames people use like "billybob1983". As this whole thread proves, it's highly questionable that they ever intended to make a jackpot winnable or release it

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July 09, 2016, 09:22:32 AM
 #90

Just got an Email from Bovada and they are disabling all their Betsoft games until they can figure out what to do about the problems with the Betsoft software.  They're acknowledging there's a problem and they are investigating the situation.
Hey betcoin fan, where did your post go?!


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July 11, 2016, 12:35:10 AM
 #91

I am pleased to say that this matter has been resolved to my satisfaction by all parties involved. Responsibility has been taken by Betcoin.ag for lack of clarification from their customer support, Betsoft has acknowledged that the wording on the pay table may have been cause for misunderstanding with respect to jackpot eligibility. Both parties have been very helpful and cooperative in resolving this and made the necessary adjustments.
Am I the only one tjat thinks this jason dude is begining to sound annoying?
He now writes as if betcoin tells him what to say or betcoin is actu allly posting on his behalf.
DUDE TELL US HOW IT WAS RESOLVED, TELL US HOW MUCH YOU WHERE PAID OR JUST CLOSE THE fucCKN THREAD

CERTIFIED CASINO CRITIC. DONT TALK ABOUT GAMBLING IF YOU AINT A *HIGH ROLLER* GAMBLER
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July 11, 2016, 03:39:34 AM
 #92

I am pleased to say that this matter has been resolved to my satisfaction by all parties involved. Responsibility has been taken by Betcoin.ag for lack of clarification from their customer support, Betsoft has acknowledged that the wording on the pay table may have been cause for misunderstanding with respect to jackpot eligibility. Both parties have been very helpful and cooperative in resolving this and made the necessary adjustments.
Am I the only one tjat thinks this jason dude is begining to sound annoying?
He now writes as if betcoin tells him what to say or betcoin is actu allly posting on his behalf.
DUDE TELL US HOW IT WAS RESOLVED, TELL US HOW MUCH YOU WHERE PAID OR JUST CLOSE THE fucCKN THREAD

DUDE,

betcoin is obviously telling him what to say so...

rip jasonoort
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July 11, 2016, 04:57:51 AM
 #93

He goes ranting everywhere about how he got scammed,  then suddenly goes annoyingly silent or post off the point replies. With due respek to the people reading this, I must say fuck u jason

CERTIFIED CASINO CRITIC. DONT TALK ABOUT GAMBLING IF YOU AINT A *HIGH ROLLER* GAMBLER
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July 11, 2016, 05:05:32 AM
 #94

Am I the only one tjat thinks this jason dude is begining to sound annoying?

Remember when someone told you that it's better to shut your mouth and let people think you're an idiot, rather than open it and remove all doubt? Oh I see, sorry. You never got that message.

It is obvious that he has been coerced into saying what he has said. He probably wouldn't have been paid anything without posting it. Put yourself in his shoes and have a think about what you would do in the same situation: agree and get something, don't agree and get nothing.

Imagine if he had been paid the whole amount. He would be ecstatic and telling everyone. Betcoin would be making more of their BS marketing drivel posts and Betsoft would be issuing press releases and telling everyone what great guys they are. None of these things have happened so we can safely assume that he hasn't been paid the full amount that he won.

That is all anyone needs to know. What difference does it make to you how much they paid him? No matter what he received it was less than he should have, so he has been ripped off. Yet Betcoin and Betsoft continue on their merry way with no care, no responsibility. You would be smarter to remember and concentrate on that rather than abusing a victim who was put in a no-win situation.
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July 11, 2016, 06:11:21 AM
 #95

Betcoin Jessica stopped by chat earlier I see.  Grabbed the archive and edited it down to relevant comments and reversed the bottom to top reading order.  Entire unedited version here:
https://archive.is/pSjUZ

ungod: jessica is betcoin trying to say that casinolistings.com a reputable online casino review site for over 10 years published a false independent review of betsoft games? thats the only way i can see justifying to continuing to carry betsoft slots in the face of that independent 3rd party review is if youre trying to say they fabricated it or something wheres the motive? is this real life?

Betcoin Jessica: There will be a very good article coming this week explaining how casino games work for online casinos. Clearly some clarification is necessary.

ungod: how casino games work for online casinos? we dont need a dummy article we need a removal of a provider who turns jackpots off and on and dials frequencies up and down at will there is 100% irrefutable evidence from an independent 3rd party review of such things...this is bullshit

Betcoin Jessica: ungod you need the knowledge my friend..you do.

ungod: you didnt see the casinolistings.com 9 month independent review of jackpot frequencies?

Betcoin Jessica: They need to publish an independent review of their jackpots from a reputable company.

ungod: a company of their choosing perhaps? and time to turn their rig off for the upcoming review? provide us with a fair provider one who hasnt been found guilty time and time again isnt that your job as a casino affiliate?

Betcoin Jessica: ungod, what we love about you is you talk like you actually are fully informed. It's amusing.

ungod: jessica is saying betsoft needs some time to turn all the rigs off on the slots and get them in order and pick their own company to review them basically jessica is saying that casinolistings.com isnt a reputable 3rd party reviewer  thats the bottom line you guys need betsoft to keep the doors open

BigThangz: ungod don't waste your time fighting a winless battle like ohyeah

Betcoin Jessica: Oh and growing from a staff of 3 to 40. Some people get lucky. Oh and giving the people the best opportunity in online poker.

ungod: lets be real,  its easy to grow staff from 3 to 40 when you have over 3000 coins collected towards unwinnable progressive jackpots

Betcoin Jessica: Yeah, it's easy. lol

ungod: 0 jackpot wins in 2 years? across all betsoft progressives?

Betcoin Jessica: I tell you this has been so easy and we have gotten so lucky!

ungod: why is casinolistings.com not a reputable company to present an independent 3rd party review?

ungod: bovada took em all down slots.lv took em down there are review sites that have been open for 20 years

Betcoin Jessica: lol

Betcoin Jessica: bovada and slots.lv are the same company ungod

ungod: not only did they take them down they added the bullshit jackpot values to their other games to make up for it you guys and betsoft could be the same company easily as far as we the players are concerned\

Betcoin Jessica: Also, you should really try to understand the real reason they took them down.

ungod: in fact that seems likely that the both of you are controlled by the same parent company

Betcoin Jessica: I wish!

ungod: why else would you refuse so vehemently to address the 3rd party independent study

Betcoin Jessica: We are waiting for their statement and study and you do realize that every one of our competitors and nearly every casino besides bovada has them?

Betcoin Jessica: You make statements like we are the only one. Lol

BigThangz: lol

Betcoin Jessica: lol!

Betcoin Jessica: ungod, ungod ungod, you should create a casino enter into a deal with some companies and then you will find out what goes on between provider and operator.

ungod: or are you guys going to keep pretending you have inside information on the bovada/betsoft breakoff? and it miraculously has nothing to do with the casinolistings study?

ungod: ok i called that one right?

Betcoin Jessica: There is a lot to it when you get to Betsoft's level and Bovada's level from fees to commissions to advetising to exclusives to egos

Betcoin Jessica: ungod, we learn more about you everyday and know just what type of person you are. Your heart is somewhat in the right place and we appreciate you for that.

Betcoin Jessica: Had a little time to kill, enjoyed it, good luck guys. See you in here a little later.

Betcoin Jessica: Bye, also the mitigation of the 6 hour attack has been removed so please let support know if anything slows.

ungod: do you guys legitimately believe that bovada ditched betsoft at the same time the buzz was going on about the casinolistings.com study and jasonort nonpayment of jackpot? you really believe the 2 events werent related?  or do you just want really bad for us the players to believe that?

(One minute later)

Betcoin Jessica: Big, we never learn all we need to know about someone. For us it's lifelong learning, but we understand your point.  It's a part of it ungod, but there is much more to it. Always look deeper ungod, you are a smart guy.

Betcoin Jessica: Go deeper than the surface, deep deep deep.

ungod: a part of it is enough jessica the provider is corrupt

Betcoin Jessica: Good luck guys, enjoyed the convo and talk soon.

BigThangz: UG did twitchy hire for part time work or what

Betcoin Jessica: Big, ungod always brings up good points, we agree with many but he never sees or examines the other side.

ungod: so betcoin stands firmly behind betsoft regardless of the 3rd party independent study that caught them with their pants down blatantly rigging slot jackpots for 9 months?

Betcoin Jessica: Anyways, I must go.

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July 11, 2016, 06:38:21 AM
 #96

He goes ranting everywhere about how he got scammed,  then suddenly goes annoyingly silent or post off the point replies. With due respek to the people reading this, I must say fuck u jason

Thank you for the respek.  You're an idiot.  I've said all that I am allowed to say.
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July 11, 2016, 10:48:26 AM
 #97

He goes ranting everywhere about how he got scammed,  then suddenly goes annoyingly silent or post off the point replies. With due respek to the people reading this, I must say fuck u jason

Thank you for the respek.  You're an idiot.  I've said all that I am allowed to say.
What a stanking pussy. Idiots like u make those bastards pullup more scams confidently

CERTIFIED CASINO CRITIC. DONT TALK ABOUT GAMBLING IF YOU AINT A *HIGH ROLLER* GAMBLER
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July 11, 2016, 11:23:50 AM
 #98

He goes ranting everywhere about how he got scammed,  then suddenly goes annoyingly silent or post off the point replies. With due respek to the people reading this, I must say fuck u jason

Thank you for the respek.  You're an idiot.  I've said all that I am allowed to say.

Well it seems like you're content with what you received, which obviously came attached to a NDA. It was becoming clear you weren't going to get the jackpot that you were entitled to, and you've taken whatever amount you could get your hands on. In one respect, I don't blame you. On the other hand, it sucks that they got away with this so easily.


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July 11, 2016, 11:30:54 AM
 #99

He goes ranting everywhere about how he got scammed,  then suddenly goes annoyingly silent or post off the point replies. With due respek to the people reading this, I must say fuck u jason

Thank you for the respek.  You're an idiot.  I've said all that I am allowed to say.

Well it seems like you're content with what you received, which obviously came attached to a NDA. It was becoming clear you weren't going to get the jackpot that you were entitled to, and you've taken whatever amount you could get your hands on. In one respect, I don't blame you. On the other hand, it sucks that they got away with this so easily.

Ok that was a settlement between jasonort and Betsoft. So Betsoft admits they were wrong. Why does betcoin.ag still supports Betsoft?

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July 11, 2016, 11:34:54 AM
 #100

He goes ranting everywhere about how he got scammed,  then suddenly goes annoyingly silent or post off the point replies. With due respek to the people reading this, I must say fuck u jason

Thank you for the respek.  You're an idiot.  I've said all that I am allowed to say.

Well it seems like you're content with what you received, which obviously came attached to a NDA. It was becoming clear you weren't going to get the jackpot that you were entitled to, and you've taken whatever amount you could get your hands on. In one respect, I don't blame you. On the other hand, it sucks that they got away with this so easily.

Ok that was a settlement between jasonort and Betsoft. So Betsoft admits they were wrong. Why does betcoin.ag still supports Betsoft?

Thats because without betsoft, they wont have any other casino games left.
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July 12, 2016, 12:32:35 AM
 #101

He goes ranting everywhere about how he got scammed,  then suddenly goes annoyingly silent or post off the point replies. With due respek to the people reading this, I must say fuck u jason

Thank you for the respek.  You're an idiot.  I've said all that I am allowed to say.

Well it seems like you're content with what you received, which obviously came attached to a NDA. It was becoming clear you weren't going to get the jackpot that you were entitled to, and you've taken whatever amount you could get your hands on. In one respect, I don't blame you. On the other hand, it sucks that they got away with this so easily.

Ok that was a settlement between jasonort and Betsoft. So Betsoft admits they were wrong. Why does betcoin.ag still supports Betsoft?

Thats because without betsoft, they wont have any other casino games left.

Or they share not winnable money from the 'jackpot' pool.

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July 12, 2016, 01:01:04 AM
 #102

He goes ranting everywhere about how he got scammed,  then suddenly goes annoyingly silent or post off the point replies. With due respek to the people reading this, I must say fuck u jason

Thank you for the respek.  You're an idiot.  I've said all that I am allowed to say.

Well it seems like you're content with what you received, which obviously came attached to a NDA. It was becoming clear you weren't going to get the jackpot that you were entitled to, and you've taken whatever amount you could get your hands on. In one respect, I don't blame you. On the other hand, it sucks that they got away with this so easily.

Ok that was a settlement between jasonort and Betsoft. So Betsoft admits they were wrong. Why does betcoin.ag still supports Betsoft?

Thats because without betsoft, they wont have any other casino games left.

Or they share not winnable money from the 'jackpot' pool.

ofc they are otherwise who will continue to use scamming programs

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July 12, 2016, 01:02:57 AM
 #103

Betcoin Jessica stopped by chat earlier I see.  Grabbed the archive and edited it down to relevant comments and reversed the bottom to top reading order.  Entire unedited version here:
https://archive.is/pSjUZ

[chatlog]-snip-[/chatlog]


Seems like all Betcoin can do is reply with ignorance and pretending like they're above everything, acting as if nobody knows what's going on (or that they're trolls and spammers deliberately trying to slander their name).

Even as ungod brings up decisive evidence, Betcoin Jessica tries their best to try and pretend like the correlation is absent. The only thing that's stark is their conscience. The continuance of this corruption is unacceptable.

Or they share not winnable money from the 'jackpot' pool.

I guess Betcoin wants to try and wrassle as much money as they can out of their players before they all leave, instead of trying to create a fair platform to keep them there.

Known alts of actmyname (unofficial list by members with -2 trust or more): DarkStar_, Lauda, Lutpin, The Pharmacist, satoshi, theymos, thermos, the Monopoly man, Charlie Sheen, Shaquille O'Neal/s
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July 15, 2016, 03:59:52 AM
 #104

Meanwhile, Betcoin.AG acknowledges that there indeed is a contract binding jasonort.
Like we didn't all already suspect that.

A business operating within morally acceptable borders doesn't push it's customers into signing some wicked NDA (I suspect that's what happened with jason).
Lutpin, the agreement is with the player and the software provider.
They kow about that shitty thing. They didn't write "there is no nda." or "we don't know about any nda.",
they answered "the agreement is with [...] the software provider."
Unbelievable how a casino (/affiliate) could stand by and watch their software provider compeling their (paying) customers into signing some NDA to shut them up.


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July 15, 2016, 04:48:41 AM
 #105

Meanwhile, Betcoin.AG acknowledges that there indeed is a contract binding jasonort.
Like we didn't all already suspect that.

A business operating within morally acceptable borders doesn't push it's customers into signing some wicked NDA (I suspect that's what happened with jason).
Lutpin, the agreement is with the player and the software provider.
They kow about that shitty thing. They didn't write "there is no nda." or "we don't know about any nda.",
they answered "the agreement is with [...] the software provider."
Unbelievable how a casino (/affiliate) could stand by and watch their software provider compeling their (paying) customers into signing some NDA to shut them up.

I don't think they realized thepogg.com has their communication with Jason published:  http://thepogg.com/complaint/betcoin-ag-progressive-jackpot-was-not-paid-for-winning-spin/

BetSOFT told ThePogg that BetCOIN would be handling the issue.
BetSOFT did not respond to Jasons attempts to communicate.
An offer was made by someone from BetCOIN who would not give a real name and claimed to have spoken with BetSOFT CEO.


Betcoin has gone Full-Delusional!! (or the people behind betcoin are also behind betsoft)
It was a dispute between the player and Betsoft.  Everyone knows that including the player. Had we not got involved, the player would have got nothing from Betsoft.  The irony to the negative trust is the player that was effected by Lutpin's comment regarding negative trust has more trust for Betcoin.ag than ever before.  

We have now hundreds of daily players for which we are very thankful and have numerous new signups everyday because fortunately people are smart enough to try our service and experience it themselves and once they do, they quickly realize that Betcoin is a great place to play.  We have come a long way and have a long way to go and we appreciate everyone's involvement.  


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July 15, 2016, 04:54:25 AM
 #106

jason you did wrong thing you shouldnt just agree small part of your fairly winnings noone could shut you so easily on that scam but whatever

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July 15, 2016, 05:33:34 AM
 #107

In 2010 it was proven that Absolute Poker had a rigged Keno game developed by Betsoft. 

Watch this 5 minute video or check out this thread for all the evidence.


Here is the letter that Absolute sent affected players:

Quote
Dear XXXX,

As a valued customer and Keno player at our site, we want to update you on an issue we were made aware of that suggested the Keno game we offered to players was operating in a non-random way.

Our early analysis of this claim stated that there was a flaw specific to the game logic in ‘ten play’ only on Traditional Keno and no confirmed issue with the Random Number Generator (RNG). Upon notice of the flaw, we contacted our third party software provider of Keno, Betsoft Gaming (BSG) for a more comprehensive investigation and subsequently removed all Keno games from our site until the investigation was complete and all corrective actions taken.

Our joint investigations with BSG confirmed that while the RNG for Keno was functioning properly, it was selecting from a pre-existing data set that was not as extensive as it should have been. The results were in turn random, but from a limited data set rather than from the full data set from which RNG is expected to choose.

While the issue stemmed from our third party software provider, we accept responsibility for offering our players a Keno game that had the described issue. Therefore refunds have been issued to all Keno players of ‘five Play’, ’ten Play’ and all Traditional Keno during the period those games were offered . Any net loss you experienced while playing Keno with us, no matter how small has been credited to your account.

We wish to offer our sincere apologies for any confusion or frustration this issue may have caused you, and we thank you for your patience while we have endeavored to correct this situation. We also want to restate our commitment to providing a safe, secure and fair gaming environment for our players.

If you have any questions about your refund, please write to us at casinosupport@absolutepoker.com

Thank you for your understanding, support and continued confidence in our game offerings.

The Absolute Poker Team

Black Friday happened within 2 weeks of this letter. 

Players with a balance on Absolute or Ultimate Poker at the time were never paid.
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July 15, 2016, 05:28:16 PM
 #108

-snip-
Who is your parent company?
-snip-
-snip-
Private held company that owns operates and licenses software and services to many online casinos.
-snip-

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July 17, 2016, 03:43:03 AM
 #109

Still curious to know how much he was paid. Since he came amd posted it here, he should as well give details

CERTIFIED CASINO CRITIC. DONT TALK ABOUT GAMBLING IF YOU AINT A *HIGH ROLLER* GAMBLER
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July 17, 2016, 08:18:43 AM
 #110

Still curious to know how much he was paid. Since he came amd posted it here, he should as well give details
Do you understand what NDA means? If not, google it.
He never talk of signing any nda

CERTIFIED CASINO CRITIC. DONT TALK ABOUT GAMBLING IF YOU AINT A *HIGH ROLLER* GAMBLER
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July 17, 2016, 08:21:32 AM
 #111

He never talk of signing any nda
It's fairly obvious there is one. Look:

Thank you for the respek. You're an idiot. I've said all that I am allowed to say.
Read between the lines.

A business operating within morally acceptable borders doesn't push it's customers into signing some wicked NDA (I suspect that's what happened with jason).
Lutpin, the agreement is with the player and the software provider.
Ask betcoin.ag

and there you got it.


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July 20, 2016, 06:13:23 PM
 #112

It's been four days since Jason made this post on Betcoin and has received no response.

https://www.betcoin.ag/setting-record-straight

Quote
I would like to set the record straight on how I feel I was treated by Betcoin.ag and their handling of my dispute with BetSoft. My words have been twisted and used by both sides in this argument (Betcoin Haters vs. Betcoin Shills) on forums all over the internet. I have had some time to reflect back on this whole ordeal and would like to share my perspective. Although I doubt that this will happen I will ask that neither side post my comments to the forums as evidence that Betcoin is good or Betcoin is bad. This is only for the players that play at this site and want to know the facts. I will comment here on Betcoin only. I am contractually bound not to comment in regards to BetSoft.

First I would like to say that overall I have no bad feelings towards Betcoin. I feel that although they did not handle the situation exactly the way I would have wanted them to, they did help me to reach a settlement with BetSoft. Without their help this may not have happened. Andrew and staff spent many hours trying to resolve this situation, and worked very hard for me. What happened was out of their control, and not their fault, but they should have perhaps handled things differently. Prior to this incident I would have given Betcoin an A+. They treated me well, and I felt like I was a valued VIP player. Afterwards I would give them a B+. I am still treated well, and I still feel that they value my business. The reason for this change can be summed up in one statement: Lack of Transparency. Although I feel that Betcoin was trying to help me behind the scenes, the problem was that it was not communicated and it was done behind the scenes and the details of what was happening were not shared with me. This is where I think that Betcoin should have done better. An honest open line of communication would have made all of the difference. I still have some questions which I would welcome Betcoin to answer for all of us so that we might understand better the relationship between the casino and their software vendors:

1. Explain the relationship between Betcoin & Software Vendor. When a player places a wager on a game exactly how does it work? Explain the chain of custody of the wager and who is responsible for paying the player for a win or taking the money from a loss. Who holds the funds for a progressive jackpot? What recourse does a player have if they feel that they have been wrongly paid?

2. Why does Betcoin censor or delete forum posts? As I said transparency is very important to me as a player. It is the foundation of trust. At the beginning of this dispute I tried to bring this vigorously to the public because I felt I had been wronged. I had forum posts and comments removed by the moderators and staff. Why? My opinion on this is that Betcoin does not want to bite the hand that feeds them (The software vendors). If they allow posts that are negative towards the vendors it could jeopardize their business dealings with them. I understand this, but Betcoin needs to understand that without the players that play here there is no business. The customer should come first, not the vendor. Unless it is outright offensive allowing the players to publicly state their opinions is important. Freedom of speech is very important to me. Allowing dissenting viewpoints and difference of opinion need to be protected. Having my speech censored made me feel as though the profits were more important than the player. This is where I feel that Betcoin dropped the ball. Do the vendors monitor your forums? If so what does that communication look like? Do they ask you to take down negative postings against them?

3. Although I cannot comment on the issue of my spin, what is your opinion? Should the spin as it occurred have won the jackpot? I want only a one word answer. Yes or No. No disclaimers. One word only. It is your opinion and not legally binding.

I know that these are tough questions. But answer them and you will be better for it. Be transparent and build trust with your players by answering them. It will only help your business, not hurt it. I do not post this to attack you. In fact I continue to play here, although I have taken a recent hiatus. I really enjoy the site. You have always treated me well, and hope to continue our relationship. Answer these questions and your grade may improve back to an A+.

On a separate and more festive note I would like to thank all of the players on this site who had my back. Specifically ungod & he who must not be named (Twitchy). They fought for me, not because they know me or have any stake in what happened to me, but because they understand that players need to be treated fairly. Because it could have been them or any one of the players on this site that this happened to. As a thank you Betcoin has debited 200mBTC from my account which I have previously announced will be used to fund a poker tourney. Andrew had committed to matching it with 300mBTC. I look forward to sharing this with all of you, and more than likely watching from the sidelines (I'm sure I will be knocked out early as I am not a very good poker player). Thank you to Andrew and the staff at Betcoin for allowing me to do this. I look forward to seeing you all on the felt.

jasonort

P.S. Could you please add some additional slot gaming providers? I am somewhat limited by the games I am willing to play currently Wink
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July 21, 2016, 08:21:32 PM
 #113

I hate in betcoin.ag web site bitcoin crpyptocurrency casino that their site have many errors like example i go to exitbfrom puffinbrowser when i am in poker and then i cant login normal about 10 minutes anf also sometimes somebodx go all in but oher user was also click all in but he didnt bet all money just one part.Also i sae that lower hand was won pot but i was need to win.
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July 22, 2016, 12:33:53 PM
 #114

The following is from Betcoins "JasonOrt Case Resolution" on July 6th.

Quote
...Throughout this entire process jasonort can attest to the fact that the Betcoin.ag staff made ourselves available nearly 24/7 to answer every question and provide proper updates when available as we would have done for all of our great players. jasonort was also clear to never blame Betcoin.ag for this issue as this was clearly a software issue and would have happened on any other online casino.

Throughout this entire circumstance jasonort continued to play at Betcoin.ag and so did many new and old Betcoin.ag players. We are very thankful for that. We will always do the right thing at Betcoin.ag for our great players...

It's now been 6 days since JasonOrts Set the Record Straight and ask Betcoin 3 questions post.

Instead of responding to JasonOrt, Betcoin is deleting posts to keep Jasons thread from appearing on the "recent activity".  

From player chat: (I edited it down, archived complete version: https://archive.is/jrhWQ )





Another recently deleted explained why a new player decided to make the following post about me (none of it is true) Twitchyseal Offered Me Money on Instagram to Lie About Betcoin



The entire archived post can be found here (it's long): https://gyazo.com/caf33a91785fc3570d7c736db3e8c9c8

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July 22, 2016, 12:45:18 PM
 #115

Yesterday, shortly after the following exchange in chat:



Cjmoles left me the following negative feedback (lies obviously):



It seems he wasn't rewarded as generously as ajundftd, just a step 3 (25mbtc) ticket Sad

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July 25, 2016, 11:39:00 PM
 #116

Hi folks. Thanks to Twitchyseal I was made aware of Betcoin's funny article about us (CasinoListings.com) that they wrote in an attempt to deflect from the bad publicity that their and Betsoft's actions have caused. After reading that and looking around their site I found this very interesting article that they published on October 9, 2014:

Quote
Book of Ra Deluxe Slot & 30 New Slots Added to BetcoinCasino.com Lineup

BetcoinCasino.com is excited to announced the inclusion of 31 new slots into the slot lineup at BetcoinCasino.com taking our total number of games available to over 200. The new games are headlined by one of the worlds most popular slots Book of Ra Deluxe.

The new games also include:

Sizzling Hot deluxe, Dolphin's Pearl Deluxe, Lucky Lady's Charm Deluxe, Lord of the Ocean Deluxe, Just Jewels Deluxe, Book of Ra, Columbus Deluxe, Dolphin Treasure, Queen of the Nile, Beetle Mania Deluxe, Dolphin's Pearl, 50 Dragons, Queen of the Nile II, Xtra Hot, 50 Lions, Power Stars, Geisha, Pelican Pete, Sun and Moon, Tiki Torch, Double Happiness, Lucky Count, Wild Panda, Miss Kitty

The new games are not a part of the bonus program for now, and are available for play by doing a transfer from your account. Simply, click on a game and then click Money Transfer. Transfer the specified funds and then you can play.

We are working to bring the most complete casino experience to you and appreciate any questions, suggestions and concerns that you may have.

But those games are not there anymore right? Right, because they were fakes. They were pirated games running on a server under the control of the pirates. Novomatic do not license their games to unregulated casinos, and they are currently not available anywhere for legitimate play in Bitcoin. Let me be clear - anywhere that you find a Novomatic game that is playable in BTC or mBTC, the game is a fake and you are being cheated.

If you ever played these games at Betcoin, you were cheated. If so you should be contacting the casino and demanding a refund for any losses incurred on them. I won't hold my breath waiting for them to give it to you.
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July 26, 2016, 02:11:15 AM
 #117

But those games are not there anymore right? Right, because they were fakes. They were pirated games running on a server under the control of the pirates. Novomatic do not license their games to unregulated casinos, and they are currently not available anywhere for legitimate play in Bitcoin. Let me be clear - anywhere that you find a Novomatic game that is playable in BTC or mBTC, the game is a fake and you are being cheated.

If you ever played these games at Betcoin, you were cheated. If so you should be contacting the casino and demanding a refund for any losses incurred on them. I won't hold my breath waiting for them to give it to you.

You might consider posting this information in the main Betcoin.ag thread as well. This thread is more about the jasonort incident and Betsoft, and your post will probably be overlooked by most people looking for Betcoin information. Here is a link to the main thread:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=386266
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July 26, 2016, 02:21:16 AM
 #118

Anyone following the Betcoin issues should also check their sig campaign thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1236667.msg15709511;topicseen#msg15709511

its the only place betcoin has been willing to respond, so its kind of turned into the new home for the discussion.

(I know, complicated)
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July 26, 2016, 05:55:05 PM
 #119

Contes btcjack in betcoin.ag winners also no one can make withdrawals https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1563169.0

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July 27, 2016, 10:55:51 PM
 #120

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July 29, 2016, 05:44:55 AM
 #121


Betcoin.ag has just erased my entire post on their forums.  I gave them every opportunity to explain their side of this.  I did not throw them under the bus.  I was civil.  And now they erase my post and just expect me to disappear?  Game on.
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July 29, 2016, 06:41:21 AM
 #122



Betcoin.ag has just erased my entire post on their forums.  I gave them every opportunity to explain their side of this.  I did not throw them under the bus.  I was civil.  And now they erase my post and just expect me to disappear?  Game on.
I think you should perform action against them, you should fight them into court since the amount u have won is alot and should no matter what be paid to you. Betcoin.ag is a scam company, they only pay small winnings.

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ajareselde
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July 30, 2016, 09:02:46 AM
 #123



Betcoin.ag has just erased my entire post on their forums.  I gave them every opportunity to explain their side of this.  I did not throw them under the bus.  I was civil.  And now they erase my post and just expect me to disappear?  Game on.


I don't get one thing jason; If you believe you are wronged, why don't you start legal action against them ? Instead you cry around forums which doesn't help you at all.

And what happened to this :

I am pleased to say that this matter has been resolved to my satisfaction by all parties involved. Responsibility has been taken by Betcoin.ag for lack of clarification from their customer support, Betsoft has acknowledged that the wording on the pay table may have been cause for misunderstanding with respect to jackpot eligibility. Both parties have been very helpful and cooperative in resolving this and made the necessary adjustments.

You said that you are pleased with outcome, what now ? You want more money ? That's close to extortion.

All the bullshit aside, stop acting like a child and either sue them, or move on. It's that simple.
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July 30, 2016, 11:59:38 AM
 #124



Betcoin.ag has just erased my entire post on their forums.  I gave them every opportunity to explain their side of this.  I did not throw them under the bus.  I was civil.  And now they erase my post and just expect me to disappear?  Game on.


I don't get one thing jason; If you believe you are wronged, why don't you start legal action against them ? Instead you cry around forums which doesn't help you at all.

And what happened to this :

I am pleased to say that this matter has been resolved to my satisfaction by all parties involved. Responsibility has been taken by Betcoin.ag for lack of clarification from their customer support, Betsoft has acknowledged that the wording on the pay table may have been cause for misunderstanding with respect to jackpot eligibility. Both parties have been very helpful and cooperative in resolving this and made the necessary adjustments.

You said that you are pleased with outcome, what now ? You want more money ? That's close to extortion.

All the bullshit aside, stop acting like a child and either sue them, or move on. It's that simple.

LOL, I'm sure you'd follow your own line of reasoning if you were the one that got screwed for hundreds of thousands of dollars.  It's pretty obvious from the thread that Betcoin/Betsoft tried to keep him quiet by giving him part of his winnings but not the entire thing.  It's pretty obvious he took the deal because it was either that or 0.  It's pretty obvious that he just wanted Betcoin to come out and publicly say that they weren't gonna let this sort of stuff happen again to one of their players.  It's pretty obvious that Betcoint deleted his posts and just tried to sweep everything under the rug.  Duh.

LOL at suing them.  Yup, just file an action in an US court, it's that easy.  Wait no...you have to serve them in whatever random island they operate out of, hire firms with an expertise in HK law (because for some odd reason Betcoin has that as their choice of law, despite online gambling being outright illegal in HK), and fund a lengthly lawsuit.  Yea, that seems very doable. 

Maybe next time, shill more tactfully or think before typing.
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July 30, 2016, 12:54:28 PM
 #125


LOL, I'm sure you'd follow your own line of reasoning if you were the one that got screwed for hundreds of thousands of dollars.  It's pretty obvious from the thread that Betcoin/Betsoft tried to keep him quiet by giving him part of his winnings but not the entire thing.  It's pretty obvious he took the deal because it was either that or 0.  It's pretty obvious that he just wanted Betcoin to come out and publicly say that they weren't gonna let this sort of stuff happen again to one of their players.  It's pretty obvious that Betcoint deleted his posts and just tried to sweep everything under the rug.  Duh.

LOL at suing them.  Yup, just file an action in an US court, it's that easy.  Wait no...you have to serve them in whatever random island they operate out of, hire firms with an expertise in HK law (because for some odd reason Betcoin has that as their choice of law, despite online gambling being outright illegal in HK), and fund a lengthly lawsuit.  Yea, that seems very doable. 

Maybe next time, shill more tactfully or think before typing.

Well i certainly wouldn't go around forums and whine about how i think someone did me wrong, and i most certainly wouldnt say :

I am pleased to say that this matter has been resolved to my satisfaction by all parties involved. Responsibility has been taken by Betcoin.ag for lack of clarification from their customer support, Betsoft has acknowledged that the wording on the pay table may have been cause for misunderstanding with respect to jackpot eligibility. Both parties have been very helpful and cooperative in resolving this and made the necessary adjustments.

and then continue asking for more money after settlement, and after saying all that.

I'm not a shill behind alt account, you are. I'm just annoyed that bunch of people are abusing this case to attack competition.

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July 30, 2016, 01:00:24 PM
 #126


LOL, I'm sure you'd follow your own line of reasoning if you were the one that got screwed for hundreds of thousands of dollars.  It's pretty obvious from the thread that Betcoin/Betsoft tried to keep him quiet by giving him part of his winnings but not the entire thing.  It's pretty obvious he took the deal because it was either that or 0.  It's pretty obvious that he just wanted Betcoin to come out and publicly say that they weren't gonna let this sort of stuff happen again to one of their players.  It's pretty obvious that Betcoint deleted his posts and just tried to sweep everything under the rug.  Duh.

LOL at suing them.  Yup, just file an action in an US court, it's that easy.  Wait no...you have to serve them in whatever random island they operate out of, hire firms with an expertise in HK law (because for some odd reason Betcoin has that as their choice of law, despite online gambling being outright illegal in HK), and fund a lengthly lawsuit.  Yea, that seems very doable.  

Maybe next time, shill more tactfully or think before typing.

Well i certainly wouldn't go around forums and whine about how i think someone did me wrong, and i most certainly wouldnt say :

I am pleased to say that this matter has been resolved to my satisfaction by all parties involved. Responsibility has been taken by Betcoin.ag for lack of clarification from their customer support, Betsoft has acknowledged that the wording on the pay table may have been cause for misunderstanding with respect to jackpot eligibility. Both parties have been very helpful and cooperative in resolving this and made the necessary adjustments.

and then continue asking for more money after settlement, and after saying all that.

I'm not a shill behind alt account, you are. I'm just annoyed that bunch of people are abusing this case to attack competition.


Well I certainly wouldn't go around promoting a scummy site like Betcoin.  Even if they paid me.   I guess you would though huh.
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July 30, 2016, 05:48:48 PM
 #127

Well i certainly wouldn't go around forums and whine about how i think someone did me wrong, and i most certainly wouldnt say :

I am pleased to say that this matter has been resolved to my satisfaction by all parties involved. Responsibility has been taken by Betcoin.ag for lack of clarification from their customer support, Betsoft has acknowledged that the wording on the pay table may have been cause for misunderstanding with respect to jackpot eligibility. Both parties have been very helpful and cooperative in resolving this and made the necessary adjustments.

and then continue asking for more money after settlement, and after saying all that.

I'm not a shill behind alt account, you are. I'm just annoyed that bunch of people are abusing this case to attack competition.

I haven't seen any post by jasonort asking for more money after the settlement, although it's certainly possible that I missed it because Betcoin has been deleting his posts. The one big post that I saw was this one:

https://www.betcoin.ag/setting-record-straight

asking that people not quote him in forums as proof that Betcoin is good or bad (like what you just did), and asking Betcoin to answer some legitimate questions about the chain of custody of wagers, why they are deleting posts, and more generally asking for greater transparency. From the "P.S." portion, it sounds like he's not comfortable playing slots on Betcoin until some changes are made.

As razzle pointed out, he doesn't have a legal leg to stand on in this situation, so it would be a costly waste of time to retain a lawyer and try to fight it in the courts. Sounds like he learned an expensive lesson. His only recourse at this point is to make what happened public knowledge on forums or wherever he can think of (within the terms of his settlement, of course) and attempt to get some better explanations so it doesn't happen to him or anyone else again, either because they've fixed the issue or because people will know which games/sites to avoid. Who can blame him?
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July 30, 2016, 06:46:21 PM
 #128



Betcoin.ag has just erased my entire post on their forums.  I gave them every opportunity to explain their side of this.  I did not throw them under the bus.  I was civil.  And now they erase my post and just expect me to disappear?  Game on.

This should be interesting..

*gets popcorn ready*


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ajareselde
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July 30, 2016, 06:58:31 PM
 #129

Well i certainly wouldn't go around forums and whine about how i think someone did me wrong, and i most certainly wouldnt say :

I am pleased to say that this matter has been resolved to my satisfaction by all parties involved. Responsibility has been taken by Betcoin.ag for lack of clarification from their customer support, Betsoft has acknowledged that the wording on the pay table may have been cause for misunderstanding with respect to jackpot eligibility. Both parties have been very helpful and cooperative in resolving this and made the necessary adjustments.

and then continue asking for more money after settlement, and after saying all that.

I'm not a shill behind alt account, you are. I'm just annoyed that bunch of people are abusing this case to attack competition.

I haven't seen any post by jasonort asking for more money after the settlement, although it's certainly possible that I missed it because Betcoin has been deleting his posts. The one big post that I saw was this one:

https://www.betcoin.ag/setting-record-straight

asking that people not quote him in forums as proof that Betcoin is good or bad (like what you just did), and asking Betcoin to answer some legitimate questions about the chain of custody of wagers, why they are deleting posts, and more generally asking for greater transparency. From the "P.S." portion, it sounds like he's not comfortable playing slots on Betcoin until some changes are made.

As razzle pointed out, he doesn't have a legal leg to stand on in this situation, so it would be a costly waste of time to retain a lawyer and try to fight it in the courts. Sounds like he learned an expensive lesson. His only recourse at this point is to make what happened public knowledge on forums or wherever he can think of (within the terms of his settlement, of course) and attempt to get some better explanations so it doesn't happen to him or anyone else again, either because they've fixed the issue or because people will know which games/sites to avoid. Who can blame him?

He is obviously asking for more money, that's for sure.

That aside, my question remains ; if he (Jason) is legally correct, why doesn't he sue betcoin, or betsoft, or whoever the hell thinks costed him that jackpot amount ?
And don't talk about costs please, because anyone can pay for lawyer and lawsuit knowing that he will win it. But that's just the point - he can't win because he already settled the case.

And even after all logic goes away, i still can understand Jason, but i can't understand Witch hunters claiming to talk in Jason's best interest, when all they do is
clearly attack betcoin.ag specific , even tho there are tons of sites using Betsoft.  Now that's something you don't do unless you have personal interest in site being attacked.

Betcoin.ag could and should have done things differently in my opinion, but they are far away from scam many claim them to be. If you think otherwise, and/or feel wronged
by them; by all means take legal action.

All this whining and flaming is getting old.






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July 30, 2016, 07:00:28 PM
 #130

He is absolutely not asking for more money. wtf is wrong with you?

do I really need to explain how ridiculous you're being by implying Jason had an option to sue anyone?
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July 30, 2016, 07:11:21 PM
 #131

He is absolutely not asking for more money. wtf is wrong with you?

I guess i was molested as a child...      I'm sorry but that question above, coming from you tilted my brain for a sec.
If you really think he is not, then you are more delusional than anyone here, and there are a lot of candidates.
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July 30, 2016, 07:12:53 PM
 #132

He is absolutely not asking for more money. wtf is wrong with you?

I guess i was molested as a child...      I'm sorry but that question above, coming from you tilted my brain for a sec.
If you really think he is not, then you are more delusional than anyone here, and there are a lot of candidates.
wtf? 
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July 30, 2016, 07:34:57 PM
 #133

He is obviously asking for more money, that's for sure.

That aside, my question remains ; if he (Jason) is legally correct, why doesn't he sue betcoin, or betsoft, or whoever the hell thinks costed him that jackpot amount ?
And don't talk about costs please, because anyone can pay for lawyer and lawsuit knowing that he will win it. But that's just the point - he can't win because he already settled the case.

And even after all logic goes away, i still can understand Jason, but i can't understand Witch hunters claiming to talk in Jason's best interest, when all they do is
clearly attack betcoin.ag specific , even tho there are tons of sites using Betsoft.  Now that's something you don't do unless you have personal interest in site being attacked.

Betcoin.ag could and should have done things differently in my opinion, but they are far away from scam many claim them to be. If you think otherwise, and/or feel wronged
by them; by all means take legal action.

All this whining and flaming is getting old.

Do you need it spelled out for you? OK, let's assume that he hires a lawyer. Where is that lawyer going to file a case? If they file it in a U.S. court, it will be immediately thrown out because overseas companies are not within their jurisdiction. So now he needs to find out where the laws do apply to Betcoin. According to their terms of service, it appears they're operating under the laws of Hong Kong or possibly Curacao. So now he hires a lawyer in Hong Kong to file a court case there. It's going to get thrown out, or maybe he'll get arrested, because he's just admitted to online gambling in Hong Kong, which is strictly illegal. OK, let's find a lawyer in Curacao, because maybe that's where they have an e-gaming license. The reason that businesses get e-gaming licenses in Curacao is because they don't care if your company is reputable or not and won't prosecute you as long as you give them money for a license. Now what?

If he had been playing in a B&M casino in Las Vegas, he would have some legal avenues to pursue, but he wasn't. Obviously, the issue with playing on overseas casinos like Betcoin with sketchy or no licensing is that if something like this happens, you have no legal recourse, as demonstrated in jasonort's situation.
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July 30, 2016, 08:26:55 PM
 #134

Do you need it spelled out for you? OK, let's assume that he hires a lawyer. Where is that lawyer going to file a case? If they file it in a U.S. court, it will be immediately thrown out because overseas companies are not within their jurisdiction. So now he needs to find out where the laws do apply to Betcoin. According to their terms of service, it appears they're operating under the laws of Hong Kong or possibly Curacao. So now he hires a lawyer in Hong Kong to file a court case there. It's going to get thrown out, or maybe he'll get arrested, because he's just admitted to online gambling in Hong Kong, which is strictly illegal. OK, let's find a lawyer in Curacao, because maybe that's where they have an e-gaming license. The reason that businesses get e-gaming licenses in Curacao is because they don't care if your company is reputable or not and won't prosecute you as long as you give them money for a license. Now what?

If he had been playing in a B&M casino in Las Vegas, he would have some legal avenues to pursue, but he wasn't. Obviously, the issue with playing on overseas casinos like Betcoin with sketchy or no licensing is that if something like this happens, you have no legal recourse, as demonstrated in jasonort's situation.

I'm not going to explain the way i would do it, but if you think about it for a while, you will see that there is much easier way to prosecute someone.
Any decent lawyer will know what to do. Or do you think whole world is doing whatever the hell they want ?!

In regards to licencing, most of casinos here are without a licence (case we will explore soon enough)
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July 30, 2016, 09:07:17 PM
 #135

I'm not going to explain the way i would do it, but if you think about it for a while, you will see that there is much easier way to prosecute someone.
Any decent lawyer will know what to do. Or do you think whole world is doing whatever the hell they want ?!

In regards to licencing, most of casinos here are without a licence (case we will explore soon enough)

If you have some sort of cogent argument to put forth, I'd love to hear it. I think you're bluffing, though.
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July 30, 2016, 09:20:27 PM
 #136

If the Terms and Conditions of the contract were signed in the United States then there can be a jurisdictional claim submitted in United States.  The contract was signed in the United States; therefore, a jurisdictional claim can be submitted within the United States.

NetRange:       173.245.48.0 - 173.245.63.255
CIDR:           173.245.48.0/20
NetName:        CLOUDFLARENET
NetHandle:      NET-173-245-48-0-1
Parent:         NET173 (NET-173-0-0-0-0)
NetType:        Direct Assignment
OriginAS:       AS13335
Organization:   CloudFlare, Inc. (CLOUD14)
RegDate:        2010-12-28
Updated:        2012-03-02
Comment:        http://www.cloudflare.com/
Ref:            https://whois.arin.net/rest/net/NET-173-245-48-0-1



OrgName:        CloudFlare, Inc.
OrgId:          CLOUD14
Address:        101 Townsend Street
City:           San Francisco                                  <-----(San Francisco, CA is in the United States)
StateProv:      CA
PostalCode:     94107
Country:        US
RegDate:        2010-07-09
Updated:        2015-10-08
Comment:        http://www.cloudflare.com/
Ref:            https://whois.arin.net/rest/org/CLOUD14


Now, whether or not locus standi could be demonstrated is another matter.  So, an out of court settlement was in the best interest of both parties.  At the heart of the matter was whether or not a "free spin" could be considered a "maximum risk wager."  Some of the questions that would have been asked are:  "Does it state anywhere that only maximum wager spins qualify for the jackpot?" "Does a free spin contribute to the jackpot?"  Or, "What was the intent behind the coding?"  "Is the 'drop jackpot' method/function called on a zero risk spin?"  Both parties could have made a case because the matter was far from cut and dry, so a settlement was negotiated.

What's important now is that the integrity of the settlement be maintained.  Those who are urging for and facilitating disclosure do not have jasonort's best interest in mind because he could be taken to court and forced to return the sum of the settlement.

Now, I'm not justifying a case for either side because both sides had valid claims; however, I do tend to be on the side of jasonort because the terms of the jackpot should have been more clearly stated to avoid this type of incident....At this point, the matter has been resolved by mediation as opposed to arbitration or litigation so jasonort will be held to those terms and we should stand behind him on this matter so as not to jeopardize his position.  

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July 30, 2016, 09:42:19 PM
 #137

If the Terms and Conditions of the contract were signed in the United States then there can be a jurisdictional claim submitted in United States.  The contract was signed in the United States; therefore, a jurisdictional claim can be submitted within the United States.

NetRange:       173.245.48.0 - 173.245.63.255
CIDR:           173.245.48.0/20
NetName:        CLOUDFLARENET
NetHandle:      NET-173-245-48-0-1
Parent:         NET173 (NET-173-0-0-0-0)
NetType:        Direct Assignment
OriginAS:       AS13335
Organization:   CloudFlare, Inc. (CLOUD14)
RegDate:        2010-12-28
Updated:        2012-03-02
Comment:        http://www.cloudflare.com/
Ref:            https://whois.arin.net/rest/net/NET-173-245-48-0-1

If this was an issue arising from the negligence of CloudFlare, which is their anti-DDoS protection, you might have a case. However, going after CloudFlare is unlikely to get you very far. The only leverage they have over Betcoin is whether or not they choose to license their service to them, and I'm sure that if they decided to not work with Betcoin anymore, Betcoin would just use one of their competitors and continue business as usual. That would be like suing the bouncers at a nightclub if the nightclub didn't give you correct change.
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July 30, 2016, 09:54:39 PM
 #138

If the Terms and Conditions of the contract were signed in the United States then there can be a jurisdictional claim submitted in United States.  The contract was signed in the United States; therefore, a jurisdictional claim can be submitted within the United States.

NetRange:       173.245.48.0 - 173.245.63.255
CIDR:           173.245.48.0/20
NetName:        CLOUDFLARENET
NetHandle:      NET-173-245-48-0-1
Parent:         NET173 (NET-173-0-0-0-0)
NetType:        Direct Assignment
OriginAS:       AS13335
Organization:   CloudFlare, Inc. (CLOUD14)
RegDate:        2010-12-28
Updated:        2012-03-02
Comment:        http://www.cloudflare.com/
Ref:            https://whois.arin.net/rest/net/NET-173-245-48-0-1

If this was an issue arising from the negligence of CloudFlare, which is their anti-DDoS protection, you might have a case. However, going after CloudFlare is unlikely to get you very far. The only leverage they have over Betcoin is whether or not they choose to license their service to them, and I'm sure that if they decided to not work with Betcoin anymore, Betcoin would just use one of their competitors and continue business as usual. That would be like suing the bouncers at a nightclub if the nightclub didn't give you correct change.

No, the question becomes in what jurisdiction was the server located at the time the contract was signed....negligence has nothing to do with it.  And, Betcoin was the mediator in this action between jasonort and Betsoft which complicates the matter to another degree which further justifies the decision to negotiate a settlement rather then litigate the action.

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July 30, 2016, 10:05:17 PM
 #139

Who owns betcoin, who owns betsoft? What if they are the same person /people? 
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July 30, 2016, 10:21:10 PM
 #140

No, the question becomes in what jurisdiction was the server located at the time the contract was signed....negligence has nothing to do with it.  And, Betcoin was the mediator in this action between jasonort and Betsoft which complicates the matter to another degree which further justifies the decision to negotiate a settlement rather then litigate the action.

CloudFlare isn't Betcoin's server. They intercept incoming traffic and then let it through to Betcoin's server or don't if they think it represents a threat. Besides, CloudFlare has wisely written a loophole into their TOS:

Quote
SECTION 12: INDEMNITY

You agree to indemnify and hold CloudFlare, and its subsidiaries, affiliates, officers, agents, co-branders or other partners, and employees, harmless from any claim or demand, including reasonable attorneys’ fees, arising out of your use of the Service, your connection to the Service, your violation of the Terms of Service, or your violation of any rights of another.
cjmoles
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July 30, 2016, 10:55:54 PM
 #141

No, the question becomes in what jurisdiction was the server located at the time the contract was signed....negligence has nothing to do with it.  And, Betcoin was the mediator in this action between jasonort and Betsoft which complicates the matter to another degree which further justifies the decision to negotiate a settlement rather then litigate the action.

CloudFlare isn't Betcoin's server. They intercept incoming traffic and then let it through to Betcoin's server or don't if they think it represents a threat. Besides, CloudFlare has wisely written a loophole into their TOS:

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SECTION 12: INDEMNITY

You agree to indemnify and hold CloudFlare, and its subsidiaries, affiliates, officers, agents, co-branders or other partners, and employees, harmless from any claim or demand, including reasonable attorneys’ fees, arising out of your use of the Service, your connection to the Service, your violation of the Terms of Service, or your violation of any rights of another.

The argument isn't with CloudFare....the jurisdictional argument is "where was the server located which precipitated the signing of the contract on the date it was signed."  The location of the server in which the contract was signed establishes a jurisdictional claim.  It's a holding that is clearly established in international law and is the reason why different jurisdictions have the right to claim peoples private information contained with the cloud if that information passed thru servers within their jurisdictions.

RazzleDazzle
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July 30, 2016, 11:26:12 PM
 #142

Umm, okay, you realize that in order for you to sue someone and collect judgement, that other person has to actually show up in court right?  Please explain to me why Betcoin, operating out of some shady island, is going to buy some economy class tickets, spend money on attorneys, and fly over to Murica to defend against a claim, when ya know...they could just not?  Even assuming that jason gets a default judgement in his favor because no one from Betcoin showed up, how in the world is he going to collect that money?

Do you think the US is going to send over some international task force to break down Betcoin's doors for civil litigation?  Trying to sue Betcoin is literally the most useless, pointless thing ever.  Like that course of action has 0 realistic merit. 

This is so retarded.  Please go and try to sue an entity that does not store their money in the United States and see how successful you are in collecting money. 
RazzleDazzle
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July 30, 2016, 11:39:00 PM