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Author Topic: SCAMMED BY FORUM USER lind82 AND ESCROW SERVICE BITHRA.COM [PHOTO PROOF]  (Read 1381 times)
kassadin5
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July 02, 2016, 05:49:08 PM
Last edit: July 02, 2016, 06:34:28 PM by kassadin5
 #1

hello, i was buying an account from user lind82 for 160$, we used bithra.com escrow, once i've sent btc to escrow he asked for the release key, and then said if i dont give him the release key i will never get my btc or admin, i started looking around and realised the site doesn't offer any option to return escrow to the buyer if he was scammed! and they say their business model is picking up "forgotten" escrows older then a year
when i contacted the site owner, he told me i have to wait for EXACTLY 1 year before contacting him, and then he stopped repliying

link to profile - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=552363

txid - 1b5bc84cca7ea437d84cff72c55a257cd3ea1dce5db6c08ca5fbf9a292bf81a3

screenshots of the conversation with lind82 - http://i.imgur.com/RpoydOz.png

                                                             http://i.imgur.com/VOfajQ6.png

                                                             http://i.imgur.com/ihPiHl1.png


screenshot of conversation with forum user RHavar, owner of bithra.com - http://i.imgur.com/zoHSpnF.png


i can sign a message with my wallet if somebody wants to be sure
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July 02, 2016, 05:52:31 PM
 #2

Why were you trying to buy this account?

*looks at trust*

Oh... so to sell shady MSDN keys.

A scammer gets scammed. Oh well. Don't let the door hit your ass on the way out.

P.S. $160 for an account with negative trust? Hahahahahahahahahahhahahahahaha. Stfu.
kassadin5
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July 02, 2016, 05:56:57 PM
 #3

It doesn't matter what i was trying to buy, he scammed me using a this site
and i'm not a scammer, i don't have any scam accusations.
Please refrain from commenting if you have nothing valid to say
and do try to find some other purpose in life then sharing your very original mindset with others, thank you.
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July 02, 2016, 06:12:50 PM
 #4

hello, i was buying an account from user lind82 for 160$,

Please link to his or her's bitcointalk profile or all other alternative accounts he has on the forum.

when i contacted the site owner, he told me i have to wait for EXACTLY 1 year before contacting him, and then he stopped repliying
I lmao'd ,sorry to be laughing at the situation but why would he ask you to wait for 1 year lol that is indeed one sick policy of the service.

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kassadin5
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July 02, 2016, 06:35:47 PM
 #5

there, i've updated the post to include a link to his profile

because in 1 year everybody will forget about it and he can claim it way before that, it says in the page FAQ that they will make money by collecting "forgotten" escrows older then, wait for it... 1 year
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July 03, 2016, 12:33:16 AM
 #6

there, i've updated the post to include a link to his profile

because in 1 year everybody will forget about it and he can claim it way before that, it says in the page FAQ that they will make money by collecting "forgotten" escrows older then, wait for it... 1 year
You should be able to spot a shady business model when you see one.

Also there isn't much that can be done since his account already has negative trust.
kassadin5
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July 03, 2016, 01:07:34 AM
 #7

he was willing to use escrow, everything seemed perfect until the moment i told him i have sent the btc to escrow, you can see for yourself from the pictures..
anyway forum user RHavar is the owner of the mentioned escrow site, designed to do just this, when some deal goes bad, there is no way for the buyer to get his money back, ever
link to his profile -----> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=389331
i have posted him negative feedback, but i will remove it if my btc is returned, for now the site looks like a pure one way street scam
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July 03, 2016, 03:44:30 AM
 #8

OK, first things first.

The whole purpose of Escrow is so that one person doesn't scam the other in a trade.

There are two issues, firstly, a scam has taken place in that lind82 hasn't passed on goods agreed to in exchange for funds (in this case BitCoins which were sent to Bithra.com )

The second issue is that the funds are being held in Escrow by Bithra.com via a mechanism where by the funds are deposited by the purchaser kassadin5 and will be released by Bithra.com when kassadin5 uses the secret token to trigger the payment to the seller.

The Bithra.com site was announced here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1456828.0 on the 2nd May 2016 by RHavar and was vouched by DarkStar_ the next day in the thread.

Very nice site.  I'm impressed.

What happens in the case of disputes?

Thanks! The two parties need to work it out. It's the moral equivalent of 2-of-2 multisig, but designed to be easier to use  (no public key sharing, both people don't need to sign the transaction). If you need arbitration or something more advanced, it's not really the service.

There was a good discussion of it in bustabit, but basically the summary is that it removes the upside in scamming -- but doesn't prevent people scamming.

OK, it doesn't stop people scamming.


I am also curious to know what will happen after the one year period is up

If the funds are never released, they will be forever lost to bithra. They won't be sent to the destination, or returned to sender -- as picking either of them could encourage a type of scammers. It kind of mimicks what happens in a 2-of-2 escrow situation, when the parties don't come to agreement (except in this case, I keep the money instead of them being forever unspendable)

(The I keep the money part above is referring to a 2-of-2 Escrow)



So, let's go over to Bithra.com

Quote
Destination:

Bitcoin address of the receiver. This can not be changed.
Select Method:
Standard
Advanced
Release Secret:

This is the "code" to release the escrowed funds. YOU MUST SAVE IT, but not share it.

There is a message dialogue:

Quote
Please Confirm
Destination Address: 1kasd5a3xf7DSpQuVJ22QppXvsj519XHk

This is the only address that funds can be released to.
Release Secret: XXXXXXXXXX <-- not really the release key, but I digress...

Don't forget to write it down (and back it up)! This is required to release the funds.

You are given two options:

  • Go Back
  • Create Escrow

So at every step you've been told the "risks" such as they are of this Escrow.

I've created a Wallet Address: 1kasd5a3xf7DSpQuVJ22QppXvsj519XHk which then creates a Wallet Address: https://www.bithra.com/escrows/1Gx4npuQR22tUVKfzsiUtFUPGyirsSLVgp

on the page at the bottom there is the guarantee:

Code:
{
  "address": "1MGeKWdiUiKPBt3NUR7NsmNDsZT5LgycrW",
  "message": "The address 1Gx4npuQR22tUVKfzsiUtFUPGyirsSLVgp was generated on 2016-07-03T02:14:25.564Z by bithra.com, and holds funds in escrow for 1kasd5a3xf7DSpQuVJ22QppXvsj519XHk and will be released with signed instructions from 12FDqVzmvt3JSa7fy34AMRRSY9waG4Wd9S in the next year",
  "signature": "Hzs6TSqGjbJDZ/kZkF4vuSxYqsCkcHWVIuHWUT9hr+wxHostuv/61vm0chef1JBohizFo26VTdf04RltGKJfSgk="
}

In the example funds would be deposited, the purchased item is delivered, then the BitCoins held in Escrow are released.

On the Bithra home page there is a whole section Why should I use Bithra? At the bottom of the page is the FAQ link: https://www.bithra.com/faq which in part reads:

Quote
The sender won't release funds?

Sorry, we can't help. You will need to sort it out with them, acting without instruction would invalidate our provably fair guarantees, and open the door to escrow scammers.

How long does the escrow last?

We guarantee it for a year, from creation. This allows us for what ever reason to have a smooth shut down (We would stop creating new escrows, and give people a year to release). In practice, they should be valid for longer than that. If you need an extension, just send an email and it can be extended a year.

It's spelt out quite convincingly what you kassadin5 self-Escrowing are getting into.



OK, so now we get to the actual scam:


https://blockchain.info/tx/1b5bc84cca7ea437d84cff72c55a257cd3ea1dce5db6c08ca5fbf9a292bf81a3

screenshots of the conversation with lind82 - http://i.imgur.com/RpoydOz.png

                                                             http://i.imgur.com/VOfajQ6.png

                                                             http://i.imgur.com/ihPiHl1.png


I wasn't able to read these when you posted them on the Bithra BCT page, but I can now.

Yes, it would seem you have been scammed by lind82 in that they have tried to coax from you the secret key you used to create the Escrow with.

As such I will red flag lind82 and encourage others to do likewise as this is a clear scam attempt to prey upon your desperation to buy an account in the hope you would hand over the secret key.

I will contact lind82 via PM (Private Mail) in the hope that I can convince them to hand over to a third party the purchased goods and in return will get an undertaking from kassadin5 to release the funds.



While it might on the surface look humorous that someone with negative trust has been scammed, let's not forget that a person has been scammed for a considerable sum.

The TX quoted sends funds to 1KM1NoNDoNhGidRZGcza9tuVkuhw4nSQQg BTC 0.24 (Roughly $ 160.00 at the time of transaction).

There is indeed a Bithra Escrow page for that Wallet Address:

https://www.bithra.com/escrows/1KM1NoNDoNhGidRZGcza9tuVkuhw4nSQQg so on the balance of probabilities, everything kassadin5 has said about being the sender of funds (including an offer to sign a message from Wallet Address 1Q5LQzeZw5kbiCwnszyF1VY5jFgFrPCYxR ) checks out as being true.

All we can do now is contact lind82 and ask that they release the purchased goods to a fourth party... Which looks like it is up to me to do...

I'll keep you informed.



But before I go... the destination Wallet Address 12GNo1TNmm8g75XtfD9M7LfeXLv39r8jHQ is part of Wallet [00007e70a7] with a total of 53,466 Wallet Addresses...

We know lind82 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=552363 uses it: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1514806.msg15264185#msg15264185 (locked thread) http://archive.is/cX25f

As does adiyrie https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=453306

http://archive.is/MTvNU

Done follow you
https://twitter.com/rara_bitco

12GNo1TNmm8g75XtfD9M7LfeXLv39r8jHQ

http://archive.is/KvsIa

Done
follow and tweet https://twitter.com/rara_bitco
12GNo1TNmm8g75XtfD9M7LfeXLv39r8jHQ

...and so does howbtc https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=221437

http://archive.is/AdkoR

For July 10

Type: Twitter/Facebook/Google+/Forum
Link: https://twitter.com/rara_bitco/status/619364810271014912
Link: https://plus.google.com/103602157556378557114/posts/i17QJVQRXxL
Link: https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=1610206019267598&id=100008346464049
Link: http://thebot.net/profile-posts/29230/

Bitcoin Address: 12GNo1TNmm8g75XtfD9M7LfeXLv39r8jHQ

Bonuses: BTC 0.03

http://archive.is/4svIY

All-In Poker

https://twitter.com/rara_bitco

https://www.facebook.com/bijai.bj

http://www.directbet.eu/BetStatus.cshtml?BetID=1Dge6zHZ4Q415GczfRiu5b1wS758LvpSa5

address me : 12GNo1TNmm8g75XtfD9M7LfeXLv39r8jHQ

Thank You

Hi howbtc,

Thank you for participating Smiley

Your free bet is confirmed. Gook Luck !

All the Best,

Michelle




Code:
Escrow scammer with multiple Alts

lind82 u=552363 -4: -2 / +0 adiyrie u=453306 and howbtc u=221437

With same twitter rara_bitco and
facebook.com bijai.bj

Known Alts of any-one - A User Generated List Mk III Poll: When leaving trust for known Alt's of other users | [Guide] Broadcast Your RAW Transaction | Get Paid in BitCoin | (NetHack 3.6.0 Hearse V 1.0.6e) | Twitter: @Timelord2067 Retweet ≠ endorsement | [Guide] Cryptopia - ONLINE ARTICLES related to hack & theft of funds 2019 | SEXCoin Forum | Other Forums: #BritishFolk #SFFHCF | Vanity Wallet Generation | Wallet Verified | BPIP | Tip of the hat: BTC SXC | (USA) Donate Blood today at One Blood dot ORG | £ $ ₹ € ¥ ¢ ? ÷ BTC I am not an escrow service... | My proof quickseller is an Alt of master-P has been deleted by BitCoinTalk - read archived version here:
RHavar
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July 03, 2016, 04:18:04 AM
 #9

First off, I'm very sorry you are getting scammed. I made bithra to try stop scams, so it sucks it's being used for one. However, bithra is doing what it was designed to do: unless you release the money, the scammer won't make a cent.

As for why I can't release the money to you, it would explicitly go against what bithra was designed for. For one, the details of the trade were never entered into the system, so I have no idea what the money for for. I have no way to prove if the skype screenshot are real, or if they are indeed from the right person.  And most importantly, it would go against the promise birtha (and the provably fair) makes.


I guess the big flaw of bithra, is that it is not very useful for when you don't trust the receiver of the money (the seller). As they have a cost-free way to have you lock up your funds, with your only hope negotiating with them. I'm thinking a good way to solve this, would be have untrusted destinations commit to the deal with a sort of deposit, to remove the "cost free" scamming.
kassadin5
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July 03, 2016, 05:14:12 AM
 #10

for god sakes man, the txid is in the screenshots, you know it's mine, the time matches, AND i can sign a message from that wallet
this is not a "big flaw" of bithra, this is a way for you to collect frozen bitcoins in escrow
you can undo it and send me my btc back, just like EVERY FUCKING ESCROW SERVICE DOES WHEN THEIR USERS GET SCAMMED, but you wont because you want the money


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July 03, 2016, 05:41:16 AM
 #11

RHavar is a Dirty fucker, figuratively and literally, you shouldn't have expected much more from him. He is a scummy Piece of Shit.

Fuck him and the couch his mother birthed his Ass on
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July 03, 2016, 06:02:37 AM
 #12

RHavar is a Dirty fucker, figuratively and literally, you shouldn't have expected much more from him. He is a scummy Piece of Shit.

Fuck him and the couch his mother birthed his Ass on

I wonder who you are an alt of?

http://archive.is/jj2oe
http://archive.is/jj2oe#selection-4559.0-4580.0

http://archive.is/bIGe1
http://archive.is/bIGe1#selection-2963.0-2983.58

http://archive.is/xVixW
http://archive.is/xVixW#selection-5601.0-5634.0

Or how much you paid for that account?

Known Alts of any-one - A User Generated List Mk III Poll: When leaving trust for known Alt's of other users | [Guide] Broadcast Your RAW Transaction | Get Paid in BitCoin | (NetHack 3.6.0 Hearse V 1.0.6e) | Twitter: @Timelord2067 Retweet ≠ endorsement | [Guide] Cryptopia - ONLINE ARTICLES related to hack & theft of funds 2019 | SEXCoin Forum | Other Forums: #BritishFolk #SFFHCF | Vanity Wallet Generation | Wallet Verified | BPIP | Tip of the hat: BTC SXC | (USA) Donate Blood today at One Blood dot ORG | £ $ ₹ € ¥ ¢ ? ÷ BTC I am not an escrow service... | My proof quickseller is an Alt of master-P has been deleted by BitCoinTalk - read archived version here:
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July 03, 2016, 06:37:52 AM
 #13

Unfortunately if you are going to use bithra.com as an escrow, you will need to trust your trading partner a fair amount because a scammer/troll could get you to send BTC to bithra with no intent of sending you the agreed upon goods. It could be possible that the scammer plans on trying to either tricking the buyer into releasing escrow early or giving the release key to the seller (allowing them to sign the release transaction). It is also possible for a scammer to promise to return a certain percentage of the BTC to the buyer if the buyer releases escrow -- on an EV basis, this is +EV verses simply letting bithra keep the BTC in escrow, even if the other person is clearly a liar and a scammer because there is a very small chance the other party will keep their word, and return your BTC to you verses a guarantee that the buyer will never see his BTC again if it stays at bithra for a year.

Some escrow services will allow for the escrow agreement to call for the seller to deposit a certain amount of BTC into escrow that would be released to the buyer in the event that the seller is unable/unwilling to deliver whatever goods/fiat is being sold.

NOTBanned from displaying signatures until May 20, 2022, 11:26:45 PM
Don’t Plagiarize, it’s dishonest and you *will* get caught
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July 03, 2016, 06:43:13 AM
 #14

This is really bad from RHavar ..and he has a positive trust...I don't think its a good gesture its his money should be returned to him...
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July 03, 2016, 06:58:10 AM
 #15

This is really bad from RHavar ..and he has a positive trust...I don't think its a good gesture its his money should be returned to him...
To be clear, his service is doing exactly what it promised to do (via the message that it signed). In reality, any BTC that is returned to the OP from RHavar will most likely be from his personal funds.

I think the issue is more that RHavar's escrow service is not quite the same as a "traditional" escrow service in the bitcoin world in that it does not offer any kind of mediation services.

(I think it is strange the a bunch of newbie accounts are posting in this thread that are critical of RHavar)

NOTBanned from displaying signatures until May 20, 2022, 11:26:45 PM
Don’t Plagiarize, it’s dishonest and you *will* get caught
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July 03, 2016, 07:20:55 AM
 #16

This thread clearly proves the point beyond doubt that RHavar's escrow service (BITHRA.COM) is shit and will not come to terms in case a party tries to scam during a trade.

Thanks for posting this OP. I will never ever use Bithra again. I thought it had potential but today the proof is clear in front of us. I don't trust RHavar and Bithra anymore! Angry

Next time hire any escrow providers from here (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=855778.0) if you don't want to get tangled again.
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July 03, 2016, 01:58:22 PM
 #17

Do not feel that you are correct kassadin5
whether you guarantee after I send the items,  you will release escrow ?
you also have negative trust.
and have alt account in here.  Grin Grin Grin

you give trust for yourself
http://image.prntscr.com/image/9a179d9b5bdf4f5dacce18045df61250.png

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kassadin5
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July 03, 2016, 02:25:23 PM
 #18

1st, i dont have alts, i have clients who just started using the forum, those go into untrusted feedback anyway, so they are not usefull at all, and unlike some, i actually have something to do to make money, not steal it, so i don't have time for alt accounts

second, you just admitted you scammed me

third, you have a guarantee you will get the btc because i already agreed to give "the release escrow key" to any official escrow on the forum from here ----> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=855778.0

but since im 99% sure you never had any accounts to begin with it doesn't matter much

i have -16 trust (because of self proclaimed forum TOS police) and no scam reports whatsoever and over 30 vouches on the forum for me being a legit seller, you have only scam reports and nothing else, on every account you own
jamesl22
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July 03, 2016, 02:56:30 PM
 #19

These are some of the complicated scenarios where Bithra, Escrowmybits or any other online escrow services doesn't help much rather than keeping it on their escrow address nearly a year before having it fully under their custody.

That's why a human mediated escrow service is two times better since they will be able to come to a conclusion based on the number of proofs presented by a party and his own intellectual judgement.

Next time don't make any mistakes in choosing an escrow service.


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Timelord2067
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July 03, 2016, 03:05:35 PM
 #20

I am startled to advise the one line reply I got from lind82 was

sorry items already sold, but Thanks mate.

Some 30 minutes later I received this by way of an excuse

why I told him to release escrow, because I've been getting a scammer from escrow, and my loss as the items.

proof: http://prntscr.com/bo8j3i
and at that time I had to send tickets to the admin, and waited for two days, at which time the price of BTC continues to decline.

That's what makes me traumatized despite using escrow was wont guarantee the seller.

Which is absurd because lind82 would then receive the [BCT] 0.24 paid out to them.

If lind82 wanted to make amends s/he should reimburse the BTC 0.24 to a third party who would then forward to kassadin5 *after* kassadin5 released the BTC 0.24 held at Bithra.com

I really don't think it has been fair to drag Bithra into this mess that has been lind82's making from the start.

Known Alts of any-one - A User Generated List Mk III Poll: When leaving trust for known Alt's of other users | [Guide] Broadcast Your RAW Transaction | Get Paid in BitCoin | (NetHack 3.6.0 Hearse V 1.0.6e) | Twitter: @Timelord2067 Retweet ≠ endorsement | [Guide] Cryptopia - ONLINE ARTICLES related to hack & theft of funds 2019 | SEXCoin Forum | Other Forums: #BritishFolk #SFFHCF | Vanity Wallet Generation | Wallet Verified | BPIP | Tip of the hat: BTC SXC | (USA) Donate Blood today at One Blood dot ORG | £ $ ₹ € ¥ ¢ ? ÷ BTC I am not an escrow service... | My proof quickseller is an Alt of master-P has been deleted by BitCoinTalk - read archived version here:
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