The latest Avalon announcement in China(Translated). Batch #3, price and more.

[BitSyncom]

I really wish the BTC to crash hard just after Avalon starts taking order. We shall see what happens to their BTC 88 - 115 payment plan. Greedy bastards.

How are they any more greedy than miners?  Based on this thread, miners themselves have no confidence in BTC and view it only as a means to earn USD.  

Bwahahaha, this the exact reason why I don't respect some of my potential customers, I don't even want money from these people. In afterthought, raising the price it must stopped a lot people were purchasing because how brainless the profit was, now there is some math and faith involved.

Like I said, I really wish the BTC to crash once you have your ordering started - will see where your lecture goes.

Haha, so much hate, what did you miss out on batch #1 and 2 or something? Willing to make a comment based on the negative outcome of Bitcoin as a whole just to get at me.

Explains the communication regarding batch 1 shipping.

this has nothing to do with it, but I am slightly annoyed at people opening a new ticket every 2 days and senting a email asking what is going on because nobody reads news letters.

I love it when people complain a whole bunch, and then they receive their units and quietly goes away to start mining and stop posting. you know who you are.

[1714191795]

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[1714191795]

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[Red_Evil]

Its Easy , monopolism thats all

All what BFL get are Delay´s and anyone will buy it for 88/110 BTC right now if they open the store.

[Rampion]

I really wish the BTC to crash hard just after Avalon starts taking order. We shall see what happens to their BTC 88 - 115 payment plan. Greedy bastards.

How are they any more greedy than miners?  Based on this thread, miners themselves have no confidence in BTC and view it only as a means to earn USD.  

Bwahahaha, this the exact reason why I don't respect some of my potential customers, I don't even want money from these people. In afterthought, raising the price it must stopped a lot people were purchasing because how brainless the profit was, now there is some math and faith involved.

I assume that was the feeling.   Many are finding out what happens when you deal with a principled business person.   I was "really?" at first, but then after thinking about it, it didn't seem bad.   With a ROI of 6-12 months, you know they will keep the gear on the network for that time, keeps it just the much more secure.   Hope people are looking at other motives than just profits.

Come on. They are just pushing their profit to the maximum giving the circumstance that right now they have no competition, that's all. They even acknowledge that now ROI is not guaranteed, you need "math and faith". So the current pricing + the greed taking over will make them sell out the units, making a huge profit, while is quite possible (but not certain) that the batch #3 buyers will not even recoup their costs.

That said, I think they did a great move for themselves: they set the right price for people still buying the whole batch, in perfect correlation with the current exchange rate. If they priced the units let's say a 20% higher, maybe they would have a problem selling all the units.

[wknight]

So many people are thinking about short term profits. These are ASIC's. They should last for a very long time and you will be compensated for your work in keeping the bitcoin network secure.

If the price seems too high then dont order. Its simple as that. Supply and Demand.

Look at it this way. Is it right for someone to purchase a unit from Avalon and throw it up on ebay and sell it for $15,000?

Only thing I can say as its a little disappointing that Shipment dates on batch #2 will be missed. I can understand getting burned out from working too much. However taking a vacation after batch #2 was finished and Batch 3 ship dates being pushed out for vacation time seems a little more reasonable.

But that's the only thing that anyone has a right to bitch about.  No one has a right to bitch about price. Don't like it.. don't buy it.

[shibaji]

Like I said, I really wish the BTC to crash once you have your ordering started - will see where your lecture goes.

Haha, so much hate, what did you miss out on batch #1 and 2 or something? Willing to make a comment based on the negative outcome of Bitcoin as a whole just to get at me.

I do not hate you. I do not even know you. I am a new comer in BTC market, and certainly was prepping my investment based on previous batch prices, so I expected something in $1800 range. I do not have BTC mined from earlier, so purchasing BTC with usd at 64+ is out of my capacity.

With the strategy change from accepting USD to BTC, potential customers and newcomers like me are screwed, without any hope to get into mining, since other than ASIC every other h/w is outdated.

The strategy of taking BTC is making sure, the people who bought batch 1 or 2 will keep on buying with the produced BTC (or the old time miners), and does not welcome new comers. Are you expanding the market with that ?

To be fair, why don't you give both choice of paying in BTC, or equivalent in USD ? Then there would be a fair chance. It is extremely hard to collect USD and then convert to BTC. Does that make sense ?

What I have been saying is purely my feeling as a new entrant in the market, who feels that he is out of option, just because this pay with BTC thing.

Again, I do not have anything personal with you or anyone at Avalon, so please do not take in that way.

[BitSyncom]

I really wish the BTC to crash hard just after Avalon starts taking order. We shall see what happens to their BTC 88 - 115 payment plan. Greedy bastards.

How are they any more greedy than miners?  Based on this thread, miners themselves have no confidence in BTC and view it only as a means to earn USD.  

Bwahahaha, this the exact reason why I don't respect some of my potential customers, I don't even want money from these people. In afterthought, raising the price it must stopped a lot people were purchasing because how brainless the profit was, now there is some math and faith involved.

I assume that was the feeling.   Many are finding out what happens when you deal with a principled business person.   I was "really?" at first, but then after thinking about it, it didn't seem bad.   With a ROI of 6-12 months, you know they will keep the gear on the network for that time, keeps it just the much more secure.   Hope people are looking at other motives than just profits.

Come on. They are just pushing their profit to the maximum giving the circumstance that right now they have no competition, that's all. They even acknowledge that now ROI is not guaranteed, you need "math and faith". So the current pricing + the greed taking over will make them sell out the units, making a huge profit, while is quite possible (but not certain) that the batch #3 buyers will not even recoup their costs.

That said, I think they did a great move for themselves: they set the right price for people still buying the whole batch, in perfect correlation with the current exchange rate. If they priced the units let's say a 20% higher, maybe they would have a problem selling all the units.

if we want to min-max, we wouldn't sell in the first place.

the math is made on a one month ROI when diff is 10,000,000. very basic.

[PuertoLibre]

/damn i though it will be 2000$ or something around it i think i will pass it   .

The funny thing is, alot of people will still buy.

I would not be surprised if a ton of Batch #1 customers start selling theirs. I know I am considering selling mine. One Ebay user is getting his sold for 15k....and he/she still doesn't have it in their hands.

I am going to guess the jump in price is a tremendous investment in the next process node they are aiming for. From the looks of it, they may well skip 90nm. (Pure speculation though)

---------------------

What is more interesting than anything else is what they intend to put out with respect to Gen 2 modules. Perhaps the same configuration but higher density chips I am hoping.

Are they still using the "Greater than 66Gh/s" language on their order page?

[Clearfly]

Batch #2 funds were used to fund the production of Batch #1 products which the say they are now nearing completion.

Batch #3 now 88BTC has taken the price from $1500 to $5280 per unit. Sounds like they are really struggling to fund this project to me.

[Rampion]

I really wish the BTC to crash hard just after Avalon starts taking order. We shall see what happens to their BTC 88 - 115 payment plan. Greedy bastards.

How are they any more greedy than miners?  Based on this thread, miners themselves have no confidence in BTC and view it only as a means to earn USD.  

Bwahahaha, this the exact reason why I don't respect some of my potential customers, I don't even want money from these people. In afterthought, raising the price it must stopped a lot people were purchasing because how brainless the profit was, now there is some math and faith involved.

I assume that was the feeling.   Many are finding out what happens when you deal with a principled business person.   I was "really?" at first, but then after thinking about it, it didn't seem bad.   With a ROI of 6-12 months, you know they will keep the gear on the network for that time, keeps it just the much more secure.   Hope people are looking at other motives than just profits.

Come on. They are just pushing their profit to the maximum giving the circumstance that right now they have no competition, that's all. They even acknowledge that now ROI is not guaranteed, you need "math and faith". So the current pricing + the greed taking over will make them sell out the units, making a huge profit, while is quite possible (but not certain) that the batch #3 buyers will not even recoup their costs.

That said, I think they did a great move for themselves: they set the right price for people still buying the whole batch, in perfect correlation with the current exchange rate. If they priced the units let's say a 20% higher, maybe they would have a problem selling all the units.

if we want to min-max, we wouldn't sell in the first place.

the math is made on a one month ROI when diff is 10,000,000. very basic.

Don't get me wrong, I respect what you did. You are legit, and you did an excellent job. I just don't think that difficulty will be 10,000,000 when the batch #3 units will reach the customers. Two questions:

- can you guarantee batch #3 delivery not later than May?
- wouldn't the difficulty reach at least 15,000,000 once all your 1,500 units are deployed? Wouldn't be much higher if ASICminer/BFL customers also start deploying more units?

[luffy]

15000$ is a one month profit from an Avalon now days (maybe less than a month)
i am sure whoever sell it, will cry later  
even the batch3 will get ROI during summer time IF BFL doesn't come out until then

[Dalkore]

I really wish the BTC to crash hard just after Avalon starts taking order. We shall see what happens to their BTC 88 - 115 payment plan. Greedy bastards.

How are they any more greedy than miners?  Based on this thread, miners themselves have no confidence in BTC and view it only as a means to earn USD.  

Bwahahaha, this the exact reason why I don't respect some of my potential customers, I don't even want money from these people. In afterthought, raising the price it must stopped a lot people were purchasing because how brainless the profit was, now there is some math and faith involved.

I assume that was the feeling.   Many are finding out what happens when you deal with a principled business person.   I was "really?" at first, but then after thinking about it, it didn't seem bad.   With a ROI of 6-12 months, you know they will keep the gear on the network for that time, keeps it just the much more secure.   Hope people are looking at other motives than just profits.

Come on. They are just pushing their profit to the maximum giving the circumstance that right now they have no competition, that's all. They even acknowledge that now ROI is not guaranteed, you need "math and faith". So the current pricing + the greed taking over will make them sell out the units, making a huge profit, while is quite possible (but not certain) that the batch #3 buyers will not even recoup their costs.

That said, I think they did a great move for themselves: they set the right price for people still buying the whole batch, in perfect correlation with the current exchange rate. If they priced the units let's say a 20% higher, maybe they would have a problem selling all the units.

I just think your not putting yourself in their shoes.  For the timetable they are delivering and BFL not giving guidance, it is correctly priced for the time being.   You need to look long term and think about why you are purchasing these units.   Am I tantalized about the prospects of getting a great ROI, of course but I am also prepare to run these units over 1-2 years+ if I need too and then upgrade to Gen2+.

I believe Avalon will at at this for a while and I know they have tricks up their sleeves so in the end you need to ask yourself, do you trust BitSyncom/Avalon, their intentions and principles or not?   Yes, like any one else, they could choose to totally screw us over but that is the risk you have to bear or not.   At the point, it doesn't matter to me, I have made my decision and we will see how my faith placed in their company will pan out.  I feel I have made the right choice and continuing to support them will be the right choice for me.  If I am wrong, I will be the first to admit it as well and learn.

[PuertoLibre]

Has Avalon sent a really nice fruit basket to Butterfly Labs to thank them for allowing them to be able to extract these rents from the market?   Do not get me wrong, I completely agree with what Avalon is doing as it makes perfect sense (and actually may make this a more orderly business as people will have to think for a minute before pulling the trigger).

Buy Bitcoins because they are going nowhere but UP as people will need to buy more than they expected.

I wonder if it is an April Fools joke?

[BitSyncom]

Like I said, I really wish the BTC to crash once you have your ordering started - will see where your lecture goes.

Haha, so much hate, what did you miss out on batch #1 and 2 or something? Willing to make a comment based on the negative outcome of Bitcoin as a whole just to get at me.

I do not hate you. I do not even know you. I am a new comer in BTC market, and certainly was prepping my investment based on previous batch prices, so I expected something in $1800 range. I do not have BTC mined from earlier, so purchasing BTC with usd at 64+ is out of my capacity.

With the strategy change from accepting USD to BTC, potential customers and newcomers like me are screwed, without any hope to get into mining, since other than ASIC every other h/w is outdated.

The strategy of taking BTC is making sure, the people who bought batch 1 or 2 will keep on buying with the produced BTC (or the old time miners), and does not welcome new comers. Are you expanding the market with that ?

To be fair, why don't you give both choice of paying in BTC, or equivalent in USD ? Then there would be a fair chance. It is extremely hard to collect USD and then convert to BTC. Does that make sense ?

What I have been saying is purely my feeling as a new entrant in the market, who feels that he is out of option, just because this pay with BTC thing.

Again, I do not have anything personal with you or anyone at Avalon, so please do not take in that way.

I think once you stop thinking in USD the escape velocity will come. Why should we sell some hardware that will break even in a few days for $1800 while bitcoin continue to raise? Bitcoin mining should not be a small investment, nor it should be a quick way to make money, for network security purposes the ROI for these things should be AT LEAST 1 month based on a diff projection.

All Avalon is doing is giving people a chance to take up this investment based on a projection of 10,000,000 diff in May-June with a 1 month ROI time frame.

Don't get me wrong, I respect what you did. You are legit, and you did an excellent job. I just don't think that difficulty will be 10,000,000 when the batch #3 units will reach the customers. Two questions:

- can you guarantee batch #3 delivery not later than May?
- wouldn't the difficulty reach at least 15,000,000 once all your 1,500 units are deployed? Wouldn't be much higher if ASICminer/BFL customers also start deploying more units?

- Yes, but I think this question can be answered based on how fast we ship batch #2.
- not really, the current diff already includes majority of batch #1's hashing power. but I also don't believe diff will only be 10,000,000 but like I said, it should take at least 1 month of ROI, realistically best case 1 month, regular projection of 3 month, which is about diff 30,000,000 which is more reasonable if BFL ships.

Oh also, expect a newsletter soon.

[shibaji]

I think once you stop thinking in USD the escape velocity will come. Why should we sell some hardware that will break even in a few days for $1800 while bitcoin continue to raise? Bitcoin mining should not be a small investment, nor it should be a quick way to make money, for network security purposes the ROI for these things should be AT LEAST 1 month based on a diff projection.

All Avalon is doing is giving people a chance to take up this investment based on a projection of 10,000,000 diff in May-June with a 1 month ROI time frame.

That's fine - it is a business decision. Please consider attaching a USD price as well, and give an option to pay with USD - that will enable people to buy the unit who do not have enough BTC

[BitSyncom]

That's fine - it is a business decision. Please consider attaching a USD price as well, and give an option to pay with USD - that will enable people to buy the unit who do not have enough BTC

Ever heard of http://bitinstant.com?

[Korbman]

I assume that was the feeling. Many are finding out what happens when you deal with a principled business person.  

Bwahahaha, holy shit that made me laugh. It is immensely apparent that Team Avalon has poor business experience, and for the record I have no problem with that. It's good for a company to stumble as they did, so long as they learn from their mistakes. In the end it makes you stronger. This, however, has yet to happen..hence the humor of you putting them on a pedestal.

With a ROI of 6-12 months, you know they will keep the gear on the network for that time, keeps it just the much more secure.  

Speaking of security, since when is vastly raising the bar to entry better for the network in the long run? Instead of thousands of people saving their pennies to make a purchase, Avalon is instead tailoring to a hundred customers who have substantial amounts of cash lying around. This sort of circles back to my comment on their "business skills"...

Hope people are looking at other motives than just profits.

Dalkore, I trust you've been here long enough to understand that (for the vast majority of people) profit is, in fact, the primary motivator.

[shibaji]

It is hard to go through bitinstant. Limit is 500 USD - now it is less than 10BTC ; coinbase has limit 10BTC and does not work most of the time. Buying from others has high % premium.

But anyway, it was just a request - if not possible, it would be good to know when ordering may begin, and give sufficient time to collect BTC through various means.

[Rampion]

- Yes, but I think this question can be answered based on how fast we ship batch #2.
- not really, the current diff already includes majority of batch #1's hashing power. but I also don't believe diff will only be 10,000,000 but like I said, it should take at least 1 month of ROI, realistically best case 1 month, regular projection of 3 month, which is about diff 30,000,000 which is more reasonable if BFL ships.

Oh also, expect a newsletter soon.

Well, it's nice having you here answering questions. Unfortunately batch #3 is too risky for me, I don't have the bitcoins bought/mined cheap enough. In my opinion +6000usd is plain too risky given the circumstances and difficulty projections. I will save BTC for your generation #2 first batch from now on

[tigerfree]

/damn i though it will be 2000$ or something around it i think i will pass it   .

The funny thing is, alot of people will still buy.

I would not be surprised if a ton of Batch #1 customers start selling theirs. I know I am considering selling mine. One Ebay user is getting his sold for 15k....and he/she still doesn't have it in their hands.

I am going to guess the jump in price is a tremendous investment in the next process node they are aiming for. From the looks of it, they may well skip 90nm. (Pure speculation though)

---------------------

What is more interesting than anything else is what they intend to put out with respect to Gen 2 modules. Perhaps the same configuration but higher density chips I am hoping.

Are they still using the "Greater than 66Gh/s" language on their order page?

if they sold more than 600 unit and for cheap it will be great profit for them and will help other people ,
just hire some worker and your work will done fast and cheap + profit

[BitSyncom]

I will save BTC for your generation #2 first batch from now on

Hopefully by then there will be more competition or the network hashrate is a lot higher so we won't be forced to come up with these ridiculous numbers.