BTC/USD: Ready for "The Running of the Bears"?

[Zangelbert Bingledack]

I'm *not* suggesting hitting the exact top bottom every time (small moves equal small fast profits, big moves equal bigger fast profits), but am saying the opportunities are amazing.

No shit, Sherlock. No one is debating that it's possible to make more money by short-term trading. The question is whether anyone can consistently outperform the market to a degree that exceeds the exponential factor of BTC price growth. You have made absolutely no argument.

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[Zangelbert Bingledack]

Bit_Happy makes a very good point, except I wouldn't even call "buy and hold" a real "strategy"... I heard a couple people mention holding their coins through the 2011 spike and crash, and still holding those same coins. That's not really something to be proud of, imho, and wasn't a wise financial decision. Imagine how much better those people would've done if they'd sold their coins for $30 (shit, even in the $20 or even $15) and then bought bitcoin again when it was near its lows. That would be a lot of money, especially if they had a good bit of coin to begin with.

Many people had thousands of coins they mined on their CPUs. And only a few of those people are actually "rich" from their bitcoin endeavors. Just imagine starting in the early days of bitcoin and mining 1,000 BTC on your CPU. Then you made the wise decision to sell near the 2011 peak (let's say $22.50) and walked away with $22,500 USD. Then you used that $22.5k to re-create your position for $5/BTC. You'd have been able to purchase 4,500 BTC, which today would have a net value of over $360,000. Not bad eh?

Woulda, coulda, shoulda. Hindsight is 20/20.

But what did most people do? They kept on buying BTC as the price climbed towards the peak, then panicked and sold everything into the crash and now many of those same people are probably chasing this parabola all the way to the top -- repeating the same self-destructive behavior once again... Great strategy...

Sorry to be Captain Obvious, but it's not "buy and hold" if you panic sell midway through

And when do people take profits? When they need money or want to up their standard of living. Simple really.

[Mageant]

I can't believe there are still bears who are holding Bitcoin at this price.

If there are they must be actually be short-term bulls.

Since there is no way to easily short-sell Bitcoins.

[Zangelbert Bingledack]

[...] and you lost money, or as you like to call it, you lost an opportunity.

LOLOLOL... Last time I checked I still had exactly the same amount of money as when I sold my coins. Taking a profit has never hurt anyone.

"Taking a profit" is a loose term, and you're using that looseness to hide your errors from yourself. A more precise phrasing is "moving your assets from Bitcoin to fiat."

With the more accurate terminology there is no vagueness to hide in; if Bitcoin outperforms fiat, you will be forced to look back and say, "I hurt myself by giving up a more valuable asset for a less valuable one. I do not have the same amount of buying power as when I sold my coins, even though I have the same amount of fiat money."

[Gab1159]

well so far we have seen what we called a quadruple top...

You really should give it a rest... I'd hate to think that your reading comprehension skills are that poor...

At no point did I ever point at any particular price and call it an exact top (that's virtually impossible to get right). Instead, I highlighted some potential areas of interest in the charts, explained what technical indicators can imply and offered potential scenarios for a price correction. And I disclosed the fact that I have sold and am currently on the sidelines watching this thing... You can disregard technicals if you like, but don't come crying to me when you buy into a massive head & shoulders and get taken to the woodshed (which might happen sooner than you think).

It's easy for everyone to think they're expert traders in roaring bull market, like so many did in the DotCom boom, but it will be interesting to see how many of you are left standing the first time we hit a bump in the road.  

Regards,

--ATC--

And how many times were you explained why the Dotcom bubble and the bitcoin aren't comparable. Is it that you, too, have poor reading skills, or is it because you just won't accept the fact that your comparison is...well, inappropriate?

And no, this wouldn't be the first bump in the road....

[S3052]

I can't believe there are still bears who are holding Bitcoin at this price.

If there are they must be actually be short-term bulls.

Since there is no way to easily short-sell Bitcoins.

bitfinex.com is actually quite simple to use (I am not sure how secure the site is, but it works for short selling and long buying with margin)

[sgbett]

Might I ask what you guys are going to do if (or perhaps when) Bitcoin experiences its next crash? 

Well call me crazy, but I'm going to "hold", and who knows I may even go crazy and you know "buy". You see how that works?

It's a complex strategy, I know, I can see why you aren't getting it.

Its right up there with the other widely derided strategies such as dollar cost averaging. Another proven to be effective, but ignored by everyone because it doesn't show how much smarter they are than everyone else, strategy. Although of course you don't call it a strategy. Oh no, strategies have to be super clever...

Taking profits? I don't take profits. I hedge against catastrophic failure by converting small amounts of bitcoin to fiat at a set multiple. Formulaic, guaranteed income. A bit like dividends - theres another unfashionable ignored and hugely profitable aspect of investing. Oh I used the I(nvesting) word instead of the T(rading) word. Guess that reveals my dim wittedness.

Emotion will defeat you. Stick to the plan. Kiss.

One small point: You still never acknowledged the fact that one of your cornerstone points in your initial TA about there being no buyers after a sell off was a glaring and incompetent error, based on your ignorance of what actually happened.

hint: gox was shut after a hack.

anyone that simply held through it all, remained unaffected.

[Razick]

+1

[Mjbmonetarymetals]

Not expecting a correction of some magnitude is to completely ignore the fact the Bitcoin has constantly gone from under valued to overvalued - as before once it becomes overvalued Bitcoin will take a haircut. Only those that got in late and sell low will be affected. Dreams of a $700 Bitcoin will put on the shelf for a few months until the next euphoric bull run.

[Le Happy Merchant]

Might I ask what you guys are going to do if (or perhaps when) Bitcoin experiences its next crash? 

Well call me crazy, but I'm going to "hold", and who knows I may even go crazy and you know "buy". You see how that works?

It's a complex strategy, I know, I can see why you aren't getting it.

Its right up there with the other widely derided strategies such as dollar cost averaging. Another proven to be effective, but ignored by everyone because it doesn't show how much smarter they are than everyone else, strategy. Although of course you don't call it a strategy. Oh no, strategies have to be super clever...

Taking profits? I don't take profits. I hedge against catastrophic failure by converting small amounts of bitcoin to fiat at a set multiple. Formulaic, guaranteed income. A bit like dividends - theres another unfashionable ignored and hugely profitable aspect of investing. Oh I used the I(nvesting) word instead of the T(rading) word. Guess that reveals my dim wittedness.

Emotion will defeat you. Stick to the plan. Kiss.

One small point: You still never acknowledged the fact that one of your cornerstone points in your initial TA about there being no buyers after a sell off was a glaring and incompetent error, based on your ignorance of what actually happened.

hint: gox was shut after a hack.

anyone that simply held through it all, remained unaffected.

This guy. +1

[notme]

Not expecting a correction of some magnitude is to completely ignore the fact the Bitcoin has constantly gone from under valued to overvalued - as before once it becomes overvalued Bitcoin will take a haircut. Only those that got in late and sell low will be affected. Dreams of a $700 Bitcoin will put on the shelf for a few months until the next euphoric bull run.

But how can be know it is overvalued if the world still has no clue what a bitcoin is worth?  Price discovery is always a volatile process and only hindsight will determine what is over/under valued.

[sgbett]

Not expecting a correction of some magnitude is to completely ignore the fact the Bitcoin has constantly gone from under valued to overvalued - as before once it becomes overvalued Bitcoin will take a haircut. Only those that got in late and sell low will be affected. Dreams of a $700 Bitcoin will put on the shelf for a few months until the next euphoric bull run.

But how can be know it is overvalued if the world still has no clue what a bitcoin is worth?  Price discovery is always a volatile process and only hindsight will determine what is over/under valued.

Exactly right, volatility is to be expected. Be <a href ='http://www.fooledbyrandomness.com'>antifragile</a> with your strategy.

[ATC777]

Someone showed me this image earlier, which was not made for the sake of Bitcoin but to descibe bubbles in general:



When I saw it I LOL'd... you would think it was made to exactly describe today's "Bitcoin mania", but JP Rodrigue designed it in 2008 (before Bitcoin was even born) to describe the life-cycle of typical financial bubbles. 

What was probably the most amusing is how he labeled the peak "New Paradigm"; ironically, people here are talking about the "new paradigm" and "reorganization of society" and other [excessively] premature characterizations of bitcoin.

Good luck, everyone!

 

[Spaceman_Spiff]

Someone showed me this image earlier, which was not made for the sake of Bitcoin but to descibe bubbles in general:

When I saw it I LOL'd... you would think it was made to exactly describe today's "Bitcoin mania", but JP Rodrigue designed it in 2008 (before Bitcoin was even born) to describe the life-cycle of typical financial bubbles. 

What was probably the most amusing is how he labeled the peak "New Paradigm"; ironically, people here are talking about the "new paradigm" and "reorganization of society" and other [excessively] premature characterizations of bitcoin.

Good luck, everyone!

 

You can keep lolling, but the people on this forum were probably talking about the reorganisation of society when bitcoin was still <$1. 

[BitPirate]

Someone showed me this image earlier, which was not made for the sake of Bitcoin but to descibe bubbles in general:

When I saw it I LOL'd... you would think it was made to exactly describe today's "Bitcoin mania", but JP Rodrigue designed it in 2008 (before Bitcoin was even born) to describe the life-cycle of typical financial bubbles. 

What was probably the most amusing is how he labeled the peak "New Paradigm"; ironically, people here are talking about the "new paradigm" and "reorganization of society" and other [excessively] premature characterizations of bitcoin.

Good luck, everyone!

 

You can keep lolling, but the people on this forum were probably talking about the reorganisation of society when bitcoin was still <$1. 

^ This. Go to the speculation forum and click on page 72. Look at the bear posts. Is anything new here?

[blackreplica]

I just re-read the OP's post and rather than just say he's wrong outright let's use his own recommendations and timeline to ascertain conclusively whether he is right or wrong

To be fair to the OP, here's his conclusion

... but this time I'm going to go out on a limb and make you a clear-cut suggestion: sell. I'm selling. We've all made a lot of money, and no one has ever been hurt taking a profit. Profit is money you didn't have before, and now you have it. So take it off the table and enjoy it. You can stay in the shark pool if you want, but do so at your own peril. It looks like the correction is indeed very close -- no one has infinite money to keep pushing the price to infinity, so a correction is going to happen. If you're patient and smart, you might be able to buy back your bitcoins in the $30s or $40s in another 7-14 days.... or at least in the 50s

In summary, for him to be right (with an original post date at March 25th), bitcoin price needs to be below $60 no later than April 8th. If price enters $30-40 in the same timeframe, he gets top marks

He throws in a lot of mights, maybes, its possible, and even a caveat after the text I quoted above but theres no way to argue against the fact that he made a recommendation based on his TA and the quoted text is it

So let's see if he's right or wrong April 8th. In the meantime we can continue the debate.

BTW I'm long bitcoin but consider myself a neutral observer. He could be right. We'll know soon enough

[sgbett]

Someone showed me this image earlier, which was not made for the sake of Bitcoin but to descibe bubbles in general:



When I saw it I LOL'd... you would think it was made to exactly describe today's "Bitcoin mania", but JP Rodrigue designed it in 2008 (before Bitcoin was even born) to describe the life-cycle of typical financial bubbles. 

What was probably the most amusing is how he labeled the peak "New Paradigm"; ironically, people here are talking about the "new paradigm" and "reorganization of society" and other [excessively] premature characterizations of bitcoin.

Good luck, everyone!

 

I agree the chart applies, but you are nowhere near paradigm shift.

Do a spot survey of everyone you know IRL and come back with a percentage of people that know about bitcoin.

I could probably think of a few hundred people I know, and as far as I know *none* of them know about bitcoin, unless I told them. Any one of them, if they found out about BTC would almost definitely speak to me about it because they know I am the nerdy one.

Media Attention is just kicking in, I suspect insititutional investors might be taking it seriously. If anything the bubble to 32 was the first sell off.

Until you grasp the relative numbers involved 21million coins vs XX trillions of dollars (not billions) you are always going to come up short when you guess the end game exchange rate.

[kingcrimson]

Looks like ATC777 was right on the mark. I wonder if he will get any apologies from the people who said he was nuts

[simonk83]

Looks like ATC777 was right on the mark. I wonder if he will get any apologies from the people who said he was nuts

Not at all.  It's a) a weekend and b) a long weekend.  Come Tuesday the price will no doubt rise again.

[shad0wbitz]

Looks like ATC777 was right on the mark. I wonder if he will get any apologies from the people who said he was nuts

Not at all.  It's a) a weekend and b) a long weekend.  Come Tuesday the price will no doubt rise again.

87 already ... the fucker is going up faster than scuba diver's fart a...tanku