[ANN] ICONOMI - Fund Management Platform

[Daparski]

I did both of that but I didn't get a clear answer from the paper or reddit (https://www.reddit.com/r/ICONOMI/comments/5gyhkk/dividends_question/)

I'm not trying to spread FUD but that answer kind of needs to be clear for traders/investors.

the answers are clear in the FAQ and WhitePaper

So what does the FAQ and whitepaper say is the answer to my scenario I outlined to Jani below?  I never found a clear answer there.

"Finally, at some time in 1Q 2017 you will make your first dividend payment to the original ICO participants who funded the ICNP original $4.6M. Say for example you invested $500K of ICNP money in the ICO of a new coin. In the week after launch, that coin doubles in price so your $500K investment is now worth $1M, giving an ICNP profit of $500K total. 20% of that $500K or $100K is the amount of profit to be distributed among the original ICO participants.

WHERE DO YOU GET THIS $100K TO DISTRIBUTE AS ETH DIVIDENDS?

Specifically, do you sell 10% of your holdings in the new coin at the end of the first week and hold on to the other 90%? Or do you get the money for dividend distribution from some other source? And if this, WHAT other source?"

Mal,

this answer is simple, I apologize if it was not addressed before.

But first, let me again say that the fees for ICNX or ICNP have not yet been confirmed, so this is just hypothetical ...

If ICNP would have 20/2 fee structure, then 20% of all REALISED PROFITS would go from ICNP to ICONOMI as fees.
But "realised profits" means that ICNP has to CLOSE its position in that "new coin" first. Only if ICNP liquidates whole $1M investment, then $100k (20% of 500k profit) go as fees to ICONOMI. And this can later be distributed as dividends to ICN token holders.

And since vast majority of ICNP's investments will be done in digital currency, so will be later liquidations... For example ICNP recently invested 5000 ETH in Golem, and I expect when this position will close, ICNP will do sell it for ETH...

Clear?

best,
Jaka

Jaka, I thank you for this answer, it helps me understand a lot.  

You have been talking about weekly dividends so I thought you were going to evaluate profit for each ICNP coin position on a week-by-week basis and distribute dividends accordingly.   Instead, ICNP may go for months or even years before liquidating its position in a given coin, calculating the profit ONE TIME based on that close-out sale, and THEN distributing profit dividends on the position.  So there could be many weeks where no ICNP dividend is distributed because no closures of ICNP coin positions occur during that week.   And so in weeks where there are no ICNP position closures, any profits / dividends would come only from ICNX or other fees.  Correct?

If this is correct, it is a big deal.  

Unrealized profits can grow larger and larger on ICNP investments until those investments are finally cashed out and distributed as dividends, pushing the "fundamentals" price of ICN up week after week as investment profits accumulate before cashout and distribution.

Deferred ICNP dividends should immediately show up as a rise in ICN price.   Roughly speaking, future increases in ICN price should always be at least 20% of ICNP pre-cashout profits - more, maybe much more, if speculative frenzy kicks in.   As the ICNP Fund grows in size, ICN price could take off like a rocket.



HODL !

Mal, that is correct.

There is also a reason why this is the only way. If we would do it as you (mis)understood before, then in a case of ICNP dropping in value (imagine that an ICO into which ICNP had invested, would announce that they have been hacked and all assets stolen) we would have to ask shareholders to "return" parts of already paid dividends to cover loss... Which is of course impossible.

Finnaly few pages of very useful comments

ok, if I properly understand this, we can at all time know how much that fund is worth (assuming that the current value of investments will be known), so the price of ICN's will probabbly be designed  from the value and the potential value of these investments - expected dividends?

yes, but only before OFM. Once people will start creating their own funds, the dividends stream will be higher.
So expect either good, better, or even better news in 2017


Edit:

Finnaly few pages of very useful comments

I agree. Perhaps we will have our first trolls-free day

[1715164187]

1715164187

[1715164187]

1715164187

[B!gSmoke]

Finnaly few pages of very useful comments

I agree. Perhaps we will have our first trolls-free day

I was about to say that!
But I'm always a bit cautious about calling trolls out loud. Mostly they hear you and then are triggered. So sh! and just enjoy the silence and peace here.

[Saksham]

Still no news about dividends? I see  ICN price  is rising smoothly on Kraken.

[Daparski]

Finnaly few pages of very useful comments

I agree. Perhaps we will have our first trolls-free day

I was about to say that!
But I'm always a bit cautious about calling trolls out loud. Mostly they hear you and then are triggered. So sh! and just enjoy the silence and peace here.

I enjoy both the silence and knocking them down

[aidia]

Still no news about dividends? I see  ICN price  is rising smoothly on Kraken.

What kinda news you are looking for? How dividends work are pretty much explained out already.

[Saksham]

Still no news about dividends? I see  ICN price  is rising smoothly on Kraken.

What kinda news you are looking for? How dividends work are pretty much explained out already.

I was asking for date ( sorry but I've missed this thread for more then 1 month) I'll searching back few pages.

[aidia]

Still no news about dividends? I see  ICN price  is rising smoothly on Kraken.

What kinda news you are looking for? How dividends work are pretty much explained out already.

I was asking for date ( sorry but I've missed this thread for more then 1 month) I'll searching back few pages.

Dividends are paid when there is realized profits/fees from the funds or OFM platform generates fees. There's no announced profits from funds since they are not yet functioning, and OFM is launching somewhere in 2017.

[rgornik]

Hey Jani, I am curious about your opinion on lower

Timing the ICO is very important, and it’s more art than science. Launching an ICO in the present climate can be challenging: bitcoin is riding high, and many people are buying and holding; ethereum has had its problems over the last few months and as a result investor sentiment (not technology sentiment) is low. Great timing requires you to be very sensitive to external sentiment or to work with someone who is.

Do you maybe (as a ICONOMI or individual) think that there is also a problem with low liquidity due to most of the funds stuck in some sort of investments (like ICOs or something else) and there is not enough "free cash" that is searching for new projects? Because for example Wings ICO took off very promising but after first day hype it did not manage to get a lot of funds on the daily basis. So its eather not enough "free floating money" there or just reasons mentioned above in the quote? Opinion whether its a good project or not is put outside in my question.

What do you mean low liquidity? You know that there is ~4.5M usd in Iconomi.PERFORMACE fund, and that is before the second round, which will take place sometimes in 2017?
I don't see any liquidity problem in the fund since it will take time until those 4.5M+ usd are invested. I am sure that by the time Iconomi will invest the last available funds, the first investments will be at least partially sold and the profits will be available for future investments. This is basic fund management.

Maybe I was not clear enough. I meant low liquidity on crypto market. It looks like there is not enough fresh money coming into crypto world.

[B!gSmoke]

Hey Jani, I am curious about your opinion on lower

Timing the ICO is very important, and it’s more art than science. Launching an ICO in the present climate can be challenging: bitcoin is riding high, and many people are buying and holding; ethereum has had its problems over the last few months and as a result investor sentiment (not technology sentiment) is low. Great timing requires you to be very sensitive to external sentiment or to work with someone who is.

Do you maybe (as a ICONOMI or individual) think that there is also a problem with low liquidity due to most of the funds stuck in some sort of investments (like ICOs or something else) and there is not enough "free cash" that is searching for new projects? Because for example Wings ICO took off very promising but after first day hype it did not manage to get a lot of funds on the daily basis. So its eather not enough "free floating money" there or just reasons mentioned above in the quote? Opinion whether its a good project or not is put outside in my question.

What do you mean low liquidity? You know that there is ~4.5M usd in Iconomi.PERFORMACE fund, and that is before the second round, which will take place sometimes in 2017?
I don't see any liquidity problem in the fund since it will take time until those 4.5M+ usd are invested. I am sure that by the time Iconomi will invest the last available funds, the first investments will be at least partially sold and the profits will be available for future investments. This is basic fund management.

Maybe I was not clear enough. I meant low liquidity on crypto market. It looks like there is not enough fresh money coming into crypto world.

This is what ICONOMI is aiming for. Bring fresh money into crypto world. I told my father about ICONOMI and he wants to put some money in it, too. So I don't worry about low liquidity. Once OFM platform is released we will see a lot of fresh money coming in. Additional there will be an affiliate program and this should bring us even more fresh money out of old economics.

[WoJJ78]

Hey Jani, I am curious about your opinion on lower

Timing the ICO is very important, and it’s more art than science. Launching an ICO in the present climate can be challenging: bitcoin is riding high, and many people are buying and holding; ethereum has had its problems over the last few months and as a result investor sentiment (not technology sentiment) is low. Great timing requires you to be very sensitive to external sentiment or to work with someone who is.

Do you maybe (as a ICONOMI or individual) think that there is also a problem with low liquidity due to most of the funds stuck in some sort of investments (like ICOs or something else) and there is not enough "free cash" that is searching for new projects? Because for example Wings ICO took off very promising but after first day hype it did not manage to get a lot of funds on the daily basis. So its eather not enough "free floating money" there or just reasons mentioned above in the quote? Opinion whether its a good project or not is put outside in my question.

What do you mean low liquidity? You know that there is ~4.5M usd in Iconomi.PERFORMACE fund, and that is before the second round, which will take place sometimes in 2017?
I don't see any liquidity problem in the fund since it will take time until those 4.5M+ usd are invested. I am sure that by the time Iconomi will invest the last available funds, the first investments will be at least partially sold and the profits will be available for future investments. This is basic fund management.

Maybe I was not clear enough. I meant low liquidity on crypto market. It looks like there is not enough fresh money coming into crypto world.

This is what ICONOMI is aiming for. Bring fresh money into crypto world. I told my father about ICONOMI and he wants to put some money in it, too. So I don't worry about low liquidity. Once OFM platform is released we will see a lot of fresh money coming in. Additional there will be an affiliate program and this should bring us even more fresh money out of old economics.

Very cool that your father is willing to invest! I told a couple of friends aswell, they are considering it I'm sure OFM wil be a nice boost for the market!

[cryptosack]

Hey Jani, I am curious about your opinion on lower

Timing the ICO is very important, and it’s more art than science. Launching an ICO in the present climate can be challenging: bitcoin is riding high, and many people are buying and holding; ethereum has had its problems over the last few months and as a result investor sentiment (not technology sentiment) is low. Great timing requires you to be very sensitive to external sentiment or to work with someone who is.

Do you maybe (as a ICONOMI or individual) think that there is also a problem with low liquidity due to most of the funds stuck in some sort of investments (like ICOs or something else) and there is not enough "free cash" that is searching for new projects? Because for example Wings ICO took off very promising but after first day hype it did not manage to get a lot of funds on the daily basis. So its eather not enough "free floating money" there or just reasons mentioned above in the quote? Opinion whether its a good project or not is put outside in my question.

What do you mean low liquidity? You know that there is ~4.5M usd in Iconomi.PERFORMACE fund, and that is before the second round, which will take place sometimes in 2017?
I don't see any liquidity problem in the fund since it will take time until those 4.5M+ usd are invested. I am sure that by the time Iconomi will invest the last available funds, the first investments will be at least partially sold and the profits will be available for future investments. This is basic fund management.

Maybe I was not clear enough. I meant low liquidity on crypto market. It looks like there is not enough fresh money coming into crypto world.

you are right
same vicious circle like in fiat fiancial world - whales get richer and steal the liquidity with pump n´dump games
time to clear up this mess

[Densitymax]

Second round will be interest only after successful launch of fund + dividends payment.

[Daparski]

buy orders are raising and sell orders are shrinking
wonder what that could mean

[B!gSmoke]

Hey Jani, I am curious about your opinion on lower

Timing the ICO is very important, and it’s more art than science. Launching an ICO in the present climate can be challenging: bitcoin is riding high, and many people are buying and holding; ethereum has had its problems over the last few months and as a result investor sentiment (not technology sentiment) is low. Great timing requires you to be very sensitive to external sentiment or to work with someone who is.

Do you maybe (as a ICONOMI or individual) think that there is also a problem with low liquidity due to most of the funds stuck in some sort of investments (like ICOs or something else) and there is not enough "free cash" that is searching for new projects? Because for example Wings ICO took off very promising but after first day hype it did not manage to get a lot of funds on the daily basis. So its eather not enough "free floating money" there or just reasons mentioned above in the quote? Opinion whether its a good project or not is put outside in my question.

What do you mean low liquidity? You know that there is ~4.5M usd in Iconomi.PERFORMACE fund, and that is before the second round, which will take place sometimes in 2017?
I don't see any liquidity problem in the fund since it will take time until those 4.5M+ usd are invested. I am sure that by the time Iconomi will invest the last available funds, the first investments will be at least partially sold and the profits will be available for future investments. This is basic fund management.

Maybe I was not clear enough. I meant low liquidity on crypto market. It looks like there is not enough fresh money coming into crypto world.

This is what ICONOMI is aiming for. Bring fresh money into crypto world. I told my father about ICONOMI and he wants to put some money in it, too. So I don't worry about low liquidity. Once OFM platform is released we will see a lot of fresh money coming in. Additional there will be an affiliate program and this should bring us even more fresh money out of old economics.

Very cool that your father is willing to invest! I told a couple of friends aswell, they are considering it I'm sure OFM wil be a nice boost for the market!

Yep, and he isn't that kind of high-risk investor. Yeah a lot of my friends are considering as well but I think they will come to "late" for the first spike.

buy orders are raising and sell orders are shrinking
wonder what that could mean

Moon?  

[Daparski]

Hey Jani, I am curious about your opinion on lower

Timing the ICO is very important, and it’s more art than science. Launching an ICO in the present climate can be challenging: bitcoin is riding high, and many people are buying and holding; ethereum has had its problems over the last few months and as a result investor sentiment (not technology sentiment) is low. Great timing requires you to be very sensitive to external sentiment or to work with someone who is.

Do you maybe (as a ICONOMI or individual) think that there is also a problem with low liquidity due to most of the funds stuck in some sort of investments (like ICOs or something else) and there is not enough "free cash" that is searching for new projects? Because for example Wings ICO took off very promising but after first day hype it did not manage to get a lot of funds on the daily basis. So its eather not enough "free floating money" there or just reasons mentioned above in the quote? Opinion whether its a good project or not is put outside in my question.

What do you mean low liquidity? You know that there is ~4.5M usd in Iconomi.PERFORMACE fund, and that is before the second round, which will take place sometimes in 2017?
I don't see any liquidity problem in the fund since it will take time until those 4.5M+ usd are invested. I am sure that by the time Iconomi will invest the last available funds, the first investments will be at least partially sold and the profits will be available for future investments. This is basic fund management.

Maybe I was not clear enough. I meant low liquidity on crypto market. It looks like there is not enough fresh money coming into crypto world.

This is what ICONOMI is aiming for. Bring fresh money into crypto world. I told my father about ICONOMI and he wants to put some money in it, too. So I don't worry about low liquidity. Once OFM platform is released we will see a lot of fresh money coming in. Additional there will be an affiliate program and this should bring us even more fresh money out of old economics.

Very cool that your father is willing to invest! I told a couple of friends aswell, they are considering it I'm sure OFM wil be a nice boost for the market!

Yep, and he isn't that kind of high-risk investor. Yeah a lot of my friends are considering as well but I think they will come to "late" for the first spike.

buy orders are raising and sell orders are shrinking
wonder what that could mean

Moon?  

Moon is the first station of Iconomi journey. I personally am more interested in the solar system and behind

[pind919]

Can you guys from ICONOMI team clear some things

So as a investor (long term) not pump and dump the ICNP is suited for those kind of investors like 20-50k ICNS

ICNX is more for companies and more BTC/ETH  like 50-100K investments


So for regular traders with 1000 - 2000 ICNs there is like some chance with dividends?

I would not classify them like that.
We have clearly stated that ICNX (ICONOMI.index) fund is a passive fund, that will grow with growth of the "blockchain" concept/world/economy. Due to its special 15% max cap of any single currency, its goal is a realistic representation of crypto markets while keeping risk as diversified as possible.

At the same time we have introduced ICONOMI.performance (ICNP) as a high-risk, high-gain vehicle.

So where to invest is not dependent on your capital, but more on your personal investment strategy, including level of acceptable risk...

But i there a limit to get invited into ICNP or a cap by 5BTC minimum?
 also  ICONOMI will fund ICPN and some big investors if the ICNP raise enough  funds then it will not be open to public (first the early shareholders)?

What is the estimated price return on ICNP*?

thnx

[Daparski]

DAPARSKI IS A FUCKING FAGGOT

If you knew who I am...


you would call me "dad"

[antaja]

buy orders are raising and sell orders are shrinking
wonder what that could mean

big dump incoming?

[aDAPPter]

All hell will break loose once we break that 30K sell wall  

aye, once that 30k sell wall pops or is pulled, then shit is going to get real from a price perspective.

Whoever placed that 30K sell wall to pick cheap ICN is in for a bitter surprise when that wall gets eaten while that person is asleep  

That person most likely know what he is doing, could even be the same person who put up the buyorders, it is kinda unlikely that someone would go and buy ICN for 60 btc in 1 go. But anything is possible for sure.

Once we get to that 30K sell wall, that 30btc will get chewed in minutes.

[Fidel007]

when 1 ICN == 1 dolla, then you bitches can start cheerleading.

until then, please kindly stfu.