[AMC]-The Official Active Mining Cooperative Discussion

[freedomno1]

This was a good release worth the announcement of the announcement
The Klondikes will not be long now either with 1.0 out so this is an interesting investment
Good to see potential competition starting to move with real news will keep observing
Lets others do the speculation 

[carnitastaco]

The chip is expected in limited quantities in Q4 2013 and fully available in Q1 2014

Umm, this is bigger news than I expected. Well done, Ken. Well done.

yeah this has gotten pretty interesting

[ChefBorjan]

Great news Ken. Congrats, this all sounds very impressive!

I'm sure there are still naysayers about saying this is a scam, so please do chip in again. (I'm actually being sorta serious, I think its healthy to have discussion from both sides.)

[TheSwede75]

Relevant for those investing in AMC-PT. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=241415.0;all

Also: What are these wild claims coming from? 'World fastest chip?" Both Bitfury and KNC miner has announced chips in 55nm/28nm that are expected for delivery in SEPTEMBER with same/competing hash rates. KNC's chip is a 55x55mm core @ 100 GH/s and Bitfury is a multicore chip capable of 0.3W per 1GH. What justifies a $25 MILLION valuation for a company with no track record, and a few 1000 BTC in total assets?

[Ac3Upz]

Do I understand it correctly that:

1) for 0.0025 I can buy share that represents 1/100,000,000th of profits of AMC mining

2) from now to next year's april I will get 1/40,000,000 of AMC's profits (unfortunately the ASICs are scheduled for Q4 2013 - Q1 2014)

3) the AMC's hardware is preordered from this other company VMC

4) the VMC's hardware development is supposedly funded by kslaughter (stated previously in this thread), but in the Marketing Strategy part of the contract at btct.co it's written "AMC is developing an ASIC chip which will be marketed through VMC." From the new anouncement: "VMC is also announcing today that 100% of the profits from bulk sales of the
Fast-Hash-ONE chips will be reimbursed to AMC until the total amount that AMC has paid to VMC for the NRE to create this chip is totally reimbursed to AMC."

5) if VMC start selling their chips to public, the AMC will get 10% of their profit

6) kslaughter has put his hard work and 6 Avalons in the company, now values his share in AMC for $15,000,000. Also he takes 90% of profit from the hardware sales

7) kslaughter is now selling the shares for 0.0025, but can later sell more for 0.0005 as stated in the summary at bifunder (also that has happened before).

8 ) the profit calculation in contract is based on assumption that the difficulty will rise only by 6.5% on average for next 24 months

9) shares have no voting rights - does it mean that contract can be changed? Or that shares can be diluted (more than 100,000,000 issued)?

I've probably misunderstood something, if that is the case, please correct me.

[neilol]

Do I understand it correctly that:

1) for 0.0025 I can buy share that represents 1/100,000,000th of profits of AMC mining

2) from now to next year's april I will get 1/40,000,000 of AMC's profits (unfortunately the ASICs are scheduled for Q4 2013 - Q1 2014)

3) the AMC's hardware is preordered from this other company VMC

4) the VMC's hardware development is supposedly funded by kslaughter (stated previously in this thread), but in the Marketing Strategy part of the contract at btct.co it's written "AMC is developing an ASIC chip which will be marketed through VMC." From the new anouncement: "VMC is also announcing today that 100% of the profits from bulk sales of the
Fast-Hash-ONE chips will be reimbursed to AMC until the total amount that AMC has paid to VMC for the NRE to create this chip is totally reimbursed to AMC."

5) if VMC start selling their chips to public, the AMC will get 10% of their profit

6) kslaughter has put his hard work and 6 Avalons in the company, now values his share in AMC for $15,000,000. Also he takes 90% of profit from the hardware sales

7) kslaughter is now selling the shares for 0.0025, but can later sell more for 0.0005 as stated in the summary at bifunder (also that has happened before).

8 ) the profit calculation in contract is based on assumption that the difficulty will rise only by 6.5% on average for next 24 months

9) shares have no voting rights - does it mean that contract can be changed? Or that shares can be diluted (more than 100,000,000 issued)?

I've probably misunderstood something, if that is the case, please correct me.

I would very much like to see someone refute most of these points

[TheSwede75]

Do I understand it correctly that:

1) for 0.0025 I can buy share that represents 1/100,000,000th of profits of AMC mining

2) from now to next year's april I will get 1/40,000,000 of AMC's profits (unfortunately the ASICs are scheduled for Q4 2013 - Q1 2014)

3) the AMC's hardware is preordered from this other company VMC

4) the VMC's hardware development is supposedly funded by kslaughter (stated previously in this thread), but in the Marketing Strategy part of the contract at btct.co it's written "AMC is developing an ASIC chip which will be marketed through VMC." From the new anouncement: "VMC is also announcing today that 100% of the profits from bulk sales of the
Fast-Hash-ONE chips will be reimbursed to AMC until the total amount that AMC has paid to VMC for the NRE to create this chip is totally reimbursed to AMC."

5) if VMC start selling their chips to public, the AMC will get 10% of their profit

6) kslaughter has put his hard work and 6 Avalons in the company, now values his share in AMC for $15,000,000. Also he takes 90% of profit from the hardware sales

7) kslaughter is now selling the shares for 0.0025, but can later sell more for 0.0005 as stated in the summary at bifunder (also that has happened before).

8 ) the profit calculation in contract is based on assumption that the difficulty will rise only by 6.5% on average for next 24 months

9) shares have no voting rights - does it mean that contract can be changed? Or that shares can be diluted (more than 100,000,000 issued)?

I've probably misunderstood something, if that is the case, please correct me.

I would very much like to see someone refute most of these points

There are so many insecurities, man-sized holes, and pure 'makes no sense' holes in the entire 'business' and it's relationships with other companies I don't even know where to start. I am 100% totally jealous of the company owners that have managed to secure their retirement in a few weeks. Buying shares @ current value? HELL NO!

[pikeadz]

...and there goes most of that 18,000 share undercutting wall.  Only thing stopping us from the moon now is those 1.5 million shares. 

[carnitastaco]

Do I understand it correctly that:

1) for 0.0025 I can buy share that represents 1/100,000,000th of profits of AMC mining

2) from now to next year's april I will get 1/40,000,000 of AMC's profits (unfortunately the ASICs are scheduled for Q4 2013 - Q1 2014)

3) the AMC's hardware is preordered from this other company VMC

4) the VMC's hardware development is supposedly funded by kslaughter (stated previously in this thread), but in the Marketing Strategy part of the contract at btct.co it's written "AMC is developing an ASIC chip which will be marketed through VMC." From the new anouncement: "VMC is also announcing today that 100% of the profits from bulk sales of the
Fast-Hash-ONE chips will be reimbursed to AMC until the total amount that AMC has paid to VMC for the NRE to create this chip is totally reimbursed to AMC."

5) if VMC start selling their chips to public, the AMC will get 10% of their profit

6) kslaughter has put his hard work and 6 Avalons in the company, now values his share in AMC for $15,000,000. Also he takes 90% of profit from the hardware sales

7) kslaughter is now selling the shares for 0.0025, but can later sell more for 0.0005 as stated in the summary at bifunder (also that has happened before).

8 ) the profit calculation in contract is based on assumption that the difficulty will rise only by 6.5% on average for next 24 months

9) shares have no voting rights - does it mean that contract can be changed? Or that shares can be diluted (more than 100,000,000 issued)?

I've probably misunderstood something, if that is the case, please correct me.

I would very much like to see someone refute most of these points

There are so many insecurities, man-sized holes, and pure 'makes no sense' holes in the entire 'business' and it's relationships with other companies I don't even know where to start. I am 100% totally jealous of the company owners that have managed to secure their retirement in a few weeks. Buying shares @ current value? HELL NO!

pretty sure youve got it all right, except that initial investors paid for the 6 avalons, not kslaughter...correct me if im wrong.

[TheSwede75]

Do I understand it correctly that:

1) for 0.0025 I can buy share that represents 1/100,000,000th of profits of AMC mining

2) from now to next year's april I will get 1/40,000,000 of AMC's profits (unfortunately the ASICs are scheduled for Q4 2013 - Q1 2014)

3) the AMC's hardware is preordered from this other company VMC

4) the VMC's hardware development is supposedly funded by kslaughter (stated previously in this thread), but in the Marketing Strategy part of the contract at btct.co it's written "AMC is developing an ASIC chip which will be marketed through VMC." From the new anouncement: "VMC is also announcing today that 100% of the profits from bulk sales of the
Fast-Hash-ONE chips will be reimbursed to AMC until the total amount that AMC has paid to VMC for the NRE to create this chip is totally reimbursed to AMC."

5) if VMC start selling their chips to public, the AMC will get 10% of their profit

6) kslaughter has put his hard work and 6 Avalons in the company, now values his share in AMC for $15,000,000. Also he takes 90% of profit from the hardware sales

7) kslaughter is now selling the shares for 0.0025, but can later sell more for 0.0005 as stated in the summary at bifunder (also that has happened before).

8 ) the profit calculation in contract is based on assumption that the difficulty will rise only by 6.5% on average for next 24 months

9) shares have no voting rights - does it mean that contract can be changed? Or that shares can be diluted (more than 100,000,000 issued)?

I've probably misunderstood something, if that is the case, please correct me.

I would very much like to see someone refute most of these points

There are so many insecurities, man-sized holes, and pure 'makes no sense' holes in the entire 'business' and it's relationships with other companies I don't even know where to start. I am 100% totally jealous of the company owners that have managed to secure their retirement in a few weeks. Buying shares @ current value? HELL NO!

pretty sure youve got it all right, except that initial investors paid for the 6 avalons, not kslaughter...correct me if im wrong.

It's also down right amazing how many people seem to think that all you need for a 100TH+ mining farm is 'chips'. There is a reason why Asicminer has not rolled out more (they have the capital). It takes a MASSIVE amount of technical knowledge, cooling, IP capacity, staff, Electricity etc. to run a larger farm. People seem to think that it's something anyone can do if they feel like it. Rude awakening in 3..2..

Not to mention that the earnings calculations for the miners is just completely NUTS! Selling Avalon clones in a few months @ current retail? Seriously, who even makes that up?

[steveioio]

There are so many insecurities, man-sized holes, and pure 'makes no sense' holes in the entire 'business' and it's relationships with other companies I don't even know where to start. I am 100% totally jealous of the company owners that have managed to secure their retirement in a few weeks. Buying shares @ current value? HELL NO!

I'm all ears. What are your precise objections?

[chsados]

There are so many insecurities, man-sized holes, and pure 'makes no sense' holes in the entire 'business' and it's relationships with other companies I don't even know where to start. I am 100% totally jealous of the company owners that have managed to secure their retirement in a few weeks. Buying shares @ current value? HELL NO!

I'm all ears. What are your precise objections?

This guy on reddit raised some valid objections:

AMC is ABSOLUTELY not worth the .0025 / share that it is going for right now. All of the increase since its original .008 price is based on this news that they have hardware coming out in the future that is on par with what others are offering.

Furthermore and MOST IMPORTANTLY, the company that is listed, AMC, will only receive a VERY SMALL percentage of profits from the sale of this hardware because it is some other company, VMC, that will actually be selling it. Basically what happened is that this one man, "Kenneth Slaughter", owns both AMC and VMC. KSlaughter used funds raised from his selling of AMC shares to fund development of hardware that VMC will sell. As a shareholder of AMC, you will only see 10% of the profits made from VMC even though you have wholly funded VMC's R&D.

Imagine in an alternate universe where ASICminer was instead two companies, say ASIC-1 and ASIC-2, where both are owned by friedcat. ASIC-1 mines for bitcoins while ASIC-2 produces hardware. However, friedcat only puts ASIC-1 on the market. When friedcat has his IPO, he will use the raised funds to produce hardware using ASIC-2. The shareholders will only see value of 10% of hardware sales and then the mining revenue, even though they are funding the entire operation. This alternate universe is essentially what you have with Kenneth Slaughter and AMC/VMC.

Other points of concern include that the dividends per share will be worth less than half of the % they currently receive by April of 2014 because in the written in the contract is the clause that allows KSlaughter to increase the amount of shares receiving dividends from the current 40,000,000 to the full 100,000,000 at that time.

Additionally, the contract allows KSlaughter to continuously undersell the current market price all the way down to .008 BTC/Share

This is not to say that AMC does not have value, but please be aware that any hardware "breakthroughs" should not have a 200% effect on share price.

Edit: Personally, I would buy in if prices fell to somewhere around .012 BTC/Share

[stereotype]

That was not the reaction i was expecting on the order books. Seems to be a stunned calm at the mo, not knowing what to make of it, and/or taking it in.  

[steveioio]

Is it possible to see your shares price go down ?

Shares can go up as well as down - if you don't know that elemental fact you should not be putting your money into shares.

[steveioio]

That was not the reaction i was expecting on the order books. Seems to be a stunned calm at the mo, not knowing what to make of it, and/or taking it in.  

Perfectly reasonable. You are talking about peoples hard earned money do you think they are going to throw it at a share on a news release that hasn't yet been officially released or scrutinized? This isn't a major on Wall St the news needs to be examined.

[FloatesMcgoates]

That was not the reaction i was expecting on the order books. Seems to be a stunned calm at the mo, not knowing what to make of it, and/or taking it in.  

The news on the chips seems to have been exactly what people were suspecting, so the effect the news had on the share price had already been factored in at this point.

[kslaughter]

Here you go: 

8 ) the profit calculation in contract is based on assumption that the difficulty will rise only by 6.5% on average for next 24 months

No the profit calculation in the contract is based on a 40 times increase in the difficulty in the next 25 months.  Also, there is a growth and expansion fund which receives 50% of the revenue for the next ~10 Months to purchase more mining equipment to keep up and exceed the difficulty raise.

6) kslaughter has put his hard work and 6 Avalons in the company, now values his share in AMC for $15,000,000. Also he takes 90% of profit from the hardware sales

I guess that is true, however AMC gets machines at manufacturers cost, so the profit on those machine will be zero and AMC has a lot of rights to machines over the next year or so.

7) kslaughter is now selling the shares for 0.0025, but can later sell more for 0.0005 as stated in the summary at bifunder (also that has happened before).

Yes, this has happened before, due to the Bitfunder "God" Ukto forcing AMC to sale shares at .0005 when the market price was .0008.

1) for 0.0025 I can buy share that represents 1/100,000,000th of profits of AMC mining

For the next ~10 months the shares represents 1/40,000,000 of the profits due to 60,000,000 not being issued and thus not receiving any dividends at all.

9) shares have no voting rights - does it mean that contract can be changed? Or that shares can be diluted (more than 100,000,000 issued)?

The contract can not be changed.  There can not be anymore than 100,000,000 shares issued.

3) the AMC's hardware is preordered from this other company VMC

VMC was created to give AMC a stable source of Bitcoin Mining Machines, due to the likes of BFL, Avalon, KnC, etc having pre-orders, not delivering in a timely way, etc.

4) the VMC's hardware development is supposedly funded by kslaughter (stated previously in this thread), but in the Marketing Strategy part of the contract at btct.co it's written "AMC is developing an ASIC chip which will be marketed through VMC." From the new anouncement: "VMC is also announcing today that 100% of the profits from bulk sales of the
Fast-Hash-ONE chips will be reimbursed to AMC until the total amount that AMC has paid to VMC for the NRE to create this chip is totally reimbursed to AMC."

I am funding VMC's business which is hardware sales, AMC is funding the development of the hardware and receiving tremendous benefits which include machines at manufacturers cost, 10% royalty on VMC sales which uses AMC technology (which will be most likely 100% by the way) and now as of today 100% of the profits from chips sales until the NRE is repaid.

 

[steveioio]

There are so many insecurities, man-sized holes, and pure 'makes no sense' holes in the entire 'business' and it's relationships with other companies I don't even know where to start. I am 100% totally jealous of the company owners that have managed to secure their retirement in a few weeks. Buying shares @ current value? HELL NO!

I'm all ears. What are your precise objections?

This guy on reddit raised some valid objections:

AMC is ABSOLUTELY not worth the .0025 / share that it is going for right now. All of the increase since its original .008 price is based on this news that they have hardware coming out in the future that is on par with what others are offering.

Furthermore and MOST IMPORTANTLY, the company that is listed, AMC, will only receive a VERY SMALL percentage of profits from the sale of this hardware because it is some other company, VMC, that will actually be selling it. Basically what happened is that this one man, "Kenneth Slaughter", owns both AMC and VMC. KSlaughter used funds raised from his selling of AMC shares to fund development of hardware that VMC will sell. As a shareholder of AMC, you will only see 10% of the profits made from VMC even though you have wholly funded VMC's R&D.

Imagine in an alternate universe where ASICminer was instead two companies, say ASIC-1 and ASIC-2, where both are owned by friedcat. ASIC-1 mines for bitcoins while ASIC-2 produces hardware. However, friedcat only puts ASIC-1 on the market. When friedcat has his IPO, he will use the raised funds to produce hardware using ASIC-2. The shareholders will only see value of 10% of hardware sales and then the mining revenue, even though they are funding the entire operation. This alternate universe is essentially what you have with Kenneth Slaughter and AMC/VMC.

Other points of concern include that the dividends per share will be worth less than half of the % they currently receive by April of 2014 because in the written in the contract is the clause that allows KSlaughter to increase the amount of shares receiving dividends from the current 40,000,000 to the full 100,000,000 at that time.

Additionally, the contract allows KSlaughter to continuously undersell the current market price all the way down to .008 BTC/Share

This is not to say that AMC does not have value, but please be aware that any hardware "breakthroughs" should not have a 200% effect on share price.

Edit: Personally, I would buy in if prices fell to somewhere around .012 BTC/Share

So his concerns are to do with what has been clearly stipulated by AMC from the outset? If you don't like the setup and conditions don't invest but it's a bit ludicrous to be telling people they are not getting a good deal when the deal is clear for all to see. Can't these people read?

[kslaughter]

Relevant for those investing in AMC-PT. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=241415.0;all

Also: What are these wild claims coming from? 'World fastest chip?" Both Bitfury and KNC miner has announced chips in 55nm/28nm that are expected for delivery in SEPTEMBER with same/competing hash rates. KNC's chip is a 55x55mm core @ 100 GH/s and Bitfury is a multicore chip capable of 0.3W per 1GH. What justifies a $25 MILLION valuation for a company with no track record, and a few 1000 BTC in total assets?

No, the chips spec say a maximum of 10 GH/s, AMC chips is 16 GH/s no one comes close.

[kslaughter]

There are so many insecurities, man-sized holes, and pure 'makes no sense' holes in the entire 'business' and it's relationships with other companies I don't even know where to start. I am 100% totally jealous of the company owners that have managed to secure their retirement in a few weeks. Buying shares @ current value? HELL NO!

I'm all ears. What are your precise objections?

This guy on reddit raised some valid objections:

AMC is ABSOLUTELY not worth the .0025 / share that it is going for right now. All of the increase since its original .008 price is based on this news that they have hardware coming out in the future that is on par with what others are offering.

Furthermore and MOST IMPORTANTLY, the company that is listed, AMC, will only receive a VERY SMALL percentage of profits from the sale of this hardware because it is some other company, VMC, that will actually be selling it. Basically what happened is that this one man, "Kenneth Slaughter", owns both AMC and VMC. KSlaughter used funds raised from his selling of AMC shares to fund development of hardware that VMC will sell. As a shareholder of AMC, you will only see 10% of the profits made from VMC even though you have wholly funded VMC's R&D.

Imagine in an alternate universe where ASICminer was instead two companies, say ASIC-1 and ASIC-2, where both are owned by friedcat. ASIC-1 mines for bitcoins while ASIC-2 produces hardware. However, friedcat only puts ASIC-1 on the market. When friedcat has his IPO, he will use the raised funds to produce hardware using ASIC-2. The shareholders will only see value of 10% of hardware sales and then the mining revenue, even though they are funding the entire operation. This alternate universe is essentially what you have with Kenneth Slaughter and AMC/VMC.

Other points of concern include that the dividends per share will be worth less than half of the % they currently receive by April of 2014 because in the written in the contract is the clause that allows KSlaughter to increase the amount of shares receiving dividends from the current 40,000,000 to the full 100,000,000 at that time.

Additionally, the contract allows KSlaughter to continuously undersell the current market price all the way down to .008 BTC/Share

This is not to say that AMC does not have value, but please be aware that any hardware "breakthroughs" should not have a 200% effect on share price.

Edit: Personally, I would buy in if prices fell to somewhere around .012 BTC/Share

So his concerns are to do with what has been clearly stipulated by AMC from the outset? If you don't like the setup and conditions don't invest but it's a bit ludicrous to be telling people they are not getting a good deal when the deal is clear for all to see. Can't these people read?

Check out my post here that answers the above concerns:  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=158806.msg2598608#msg2598608