[AMC]-The Official Active Mining Cooperative Discussion

[Deprived]

The maximum NRE total cost asked to us is around $1,000,000, but we are expecting it may go
down from there. We estimate a total sale of 4,000,000 shares at ฿0.0025 for covering all
the NRE associated costs, considering BTC/USD fluctuations.

VMC is also announcing today that 100% of the profits from bulk sales of the
Fast-Hash-ONE chips will be reimbursed to AMC until the total amount that AMC has paid to
VMC for the NRE to create this chip is totally reimbursed to AMC.  AMC will also
have the First Rights Of Refusal on a number of machines built with the Fast-Hash-ONE.

Are you sure VMC can afford to be this generous?

I mean all AMC is going to do is lend VMC $1 million.

And in return VMC is going to pay it back from profits?  AND allow them to buy hardware?

Shouldn't VMC get something out of it?

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[grimholt]

I think the crash is more to do with btc/usd price crash more.

LOL, now we are really pulling at straws.  A fluctuation of 2-3 dollars is keeping people from investing in "the fastest, most awesomest super duper chip design ever?"

I just realized it wasn't smart of me to buy shares when there are TONS of shares yet to be sold. Anything could happen before it reaches it last 100k shares. And that should've been the point where i should buy. If people stop buying halfway you're screwed.
Learned something for next time

Ya i just thought about that also...oh well if it doesn't happen .47btc gone...and yes i'm foolish/careless...I bought those w/o doin any reading

missed the golden AM boat and hell the very golden boat of btc all together...just swimming behind it trying to catch up sucks, so might as well take a gamble n hope i don't crap out but with my luck we're all doomed 

I think it will be fine although it's not a good sign when people stop buying after only 1/4 of the shares.
Might be a fluke. We'll find out soon.

It will, at once the panic-sellers and undercutters realize that it is in all investors interest that AMC gets the funds needed for producing the chip (a production that will start the moment the NRE is paid), and thus remove their sell orders so we can proceed on getting the wall down.

[grimholt]

Quoting Vbs again, for those that hasn't already read:

So, why is eASIC that important? And why is our partnership with them just ACE?

1) Fast Turnaround ASICs
eASIC uses a specific manufacturing process for quick chip delivery, that only relies on customizing the metal layer of the chip. All other layers are EQUAL on all their chips, for any other client, they use a structured ASIC approach.



What does this mean: It means wafers can enter production THE SAME DAY as we pay the NRE. THERE IS NO MASK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (Edit grimholt: This means AT ONCE THE 0.0025 WALL IS DOWN, WAFERS CAN ENTER PRODUCTION! This is huge!)

"When it comes to device manufacturing and test, eASIC Nextreme-2 family takes only a fraction of the time of standard cell ASICs as only one via layer needs to be customized for each design. This means that wafer manufacturing can start much earlier and even during the design stage itself. The short manufacturing and test cycle enables designers to bring new products to market quickly and also rapidly develop derivative products to cater for changing market requirements."


2) easicopy ASIC migration



What does this mean: It means once we move our chip to that process, not only will it be faster, it will be cheaper and with less power requirements.

[Vbs]

I hate to burst your bubble here, but many people, including myself, looked at the easic route last year, and discarded it.

eAsic doesn't agree with you, it seems!

The chip performance specs are their numbers.

[Vbs]

I hate to burst your bubble here, but many people, including myself, looked at the easic route last year, and discarded it.

eAsic doesn't agree with you, it seems!

When you ask to buy the worst used car on the lot, does the salesman try to talk you out of it?

So, our good chip performance specs are the worst used car on the lot, that came out from their "4th Generation 28nm NEW ASICs", that are just coming out?

You can check it on their front page: http://www.easic.com/

EDIT - eASIC's vision and technology: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQsvbvv2Dww&hd=1

[polrpaul]

There are many concerns with what is being proposed here from new chip design perspective. Am I the only one reading between the lines?

[Vbs]

Do I understand it correctly that:

1) for 0.0025 I can buy share that represents 1/100,000,000th of profits of AMC mining

2) from now to next year's april I will get 1/40,000,000 of AMC's profits (unfortunately the ASICs are scheduled for Q4 2013 - Q1 2014)

That share represents 1/40M of the profits of AMC mining until 0.0005 is paid per share, or May 2014, whichever comes later.

3) the AMC's hardware is preordered from this other company VMC

4) the VMC's hardware development is supposedly funded by kslaughter (stated previously in this thread), but in the Marketing Strategy part of the contract at btct.co it's written "AMC is developing an ASIC chip which will be marketed through VMC." From the new anouncement: "VMC is also announcing today that 100% of the profits from bulk sales of the
Fast-Hash-ONE chips will be reimbursed to AMC until the total amount that AMC has paid to VMC for the NRE to create this chip is totally reimbursed to AMC."

5) if VMC start selling their chips to public, the AMC will get 10% of their profit

No, like you said in 4), AMC will get 100% of the profit, until all chip sales from VMC tally $1M (the NRE cost).
This effectively means that AMC is loaning $1M to VMC, and gets all profits from chip sales until that loan is paid.
In the end, chip sales pay the NRE costs, not AMC.

6) kslaughter has put his hard work and 6 Avalons in the company, now values his share in AMC for $15,000,000. Also he takes 90% of profit from the hardware sales

7) kslaughter is now selling the shares for 0.0025, but can later sell more for 0.0005 as stated in the summary at bifunder (also that has happened before).

8 ) the profit calculation in contract is based on assumption that the difficulty will rise only by 6.5% on average for next 24 months

9) shares have no voting rights - does it mean that contract can be changed? Or that shares can be diluted (more than 100,000,000 issued)?

I've probably misunderstood something, if that is the case, please correct me.

These have already been answered many times.

[Vbs]

This was all hashed out in the custom hardware forum last year.  Go find the discussions yourself.

Basically you end up with a device that is equal to an FPGA in power and performance, and cheaper than an FPGA if you need thousands of them.  But compared to an ASIC, the result is poor due to all the legacy overhead in the device.

But I guess that doesn't matter since you are buying the capability for Ken, and won't even own the IP.

I know it's pointless, but I'll answer.

The chip performance results are stated in the news, so you either think them mediocre or are saying eAsic are liars. If you think a 16GH/s chip is mediocre for an ASIC, please point me anywhere where I can find a better one at the moment, or even in the design stage.

[ArcticWolf]

Well I only paid BTC2 at .0008 so I think Im going to stick with it and see where this goes.
The news was great, Im in for the long haul

[glendall]

Hmmm considering buying in. 

I like the looks of AMC, and it seems well thought-out enough.

But one thing that I get hung up on is the amount of $ they need to raise. Currently the .000025 shares represent upwards of 3800 BTC.  That's a heck of lot of bit-clams to raise from the community.  Am I correct in understanding if they don't raise this capital the plans to build the new chips will not go through?

I don't know if I can see that magnitude of BTC being invested in the company, no matter how good things look.

 

[asdfghj]

lol, Ken tanked his own stock with that 2 million share wall

[🏰 TradeFortress 🏰]

lol, Ken tanked his own stock with that 2 million share wall

It's engineered as a scam all the way through. I shudder for all the investors that bought into the bullshit PRs.

[VolanicEruptor]

So many people trying to kick the price down for cheap shares
hopefully their buy orders get filled so they can STFU

[lewicki]

So many people trying to kick the price down for cheap shares
hopefully their buy orders get filled so they can STFU

Every single one of these people either:

• Mine themselves
• Own Shares in a competing security
• Trying to pick up shares a lower price

This will pass, just as it did when we had good news the previous 2 times and were put down. People are scared of AMC because it represents competition.

[🏰 TradeFortress 🏰]

I'm sure bASIC preorders cheered when they heard good news from Tom.

[lewicki]

Every single one of these people either:

• Mine themselves
• Own Shares in a competing security
• Trying to pick up shares a lower price

This will pass, just as it did when we had good news the previous 2 times and were put down.

Say they succeed, though, in scaring people out of their shares (or from buying the IPOs). What happens if the needed funding isn't acquired? I read earlier that AMC can get a loan from VMC or something similar - still a possibility if IPOs aren't all purchased?

They probably wont need the full NRE right away. Raising that money shouldn't be a problem. Plus $1million is a max

The maximum NRE total cost asked to us is around $1,000,000, but we are expecting it may go
down from there.

[Vbs]

Every single one of these people either:

• Mine themselves
• Own Shares in a competing security
• Trying to pick up shares a lower price

This will pass, just as it did when we had good news the previous 2 times and were put down.

Say they succeed, though, in scaring people out of their shares (or from buying the IPOs). What happens if the needed funding isn't acquired? I read earlier that AMC can get a loan from VMC or something similar - still a possibility if IPOs aren't all purchased?

Yes, remember we have a lot of hardware incoming. Will take a bit more time, but the mining from that can be very well used for it. We will get our chips.

The hard part was most certainly convincing eASIC to run the chip simulations for us (are we "worthy"?), based on Ken's optimized RTL code. We already passed the front door!

[Exocyst]

This was all hashed out in the custom hardware forum last year.  Go find the discussions yourself.

Basically you end up with a device that is equal to an FPGA in power and performance, and cheaper than an FPGA if you need thousands of them.  But compared to an ASIC, the result is poor due to all the legacy overhead in the device.

But I guess that doesn't matter since you are buying the capability for Ken, and won't even own the IP.

I know it's pointless, but I'll answer.

The chip performance results are stated in the news, so you either think them mediocre or are saying eAsic are liars. If you think a 16GH/s chip is mediocre for an ASIC, please point me anywhere where I can find a better one at the moment, or even in the design stage.

A video of a prototype chip hashing away at 16 GH/s would certainly help eat up the wall.

Food for thought....

[lewicki]

This was all hashed out in the custom hardware forum last year.  Go find the discussions yourself.

Basically you end up with a device that is equal to an FPGA in power and performance, and cheaper than an FPGA if you need thousands of them.  But compared to an ASIC, the result is poor due to all the legacy overhead in the device.

But I guess that doesn't matter since you are buying the capability for Ken, and won't even own the IP.

I know it's pointless, but I'll answer.

The chip performance results are stated in the news, so you either think them mediocre or are saying eAsic are liars. If you think a 16GH/s chip is mediocre for an ASIC, please point me anywhere where I can find a better one at the moment, or even in the design stage.

A video of a prototype chip hashing away at 16 GH/s would certainly help eat up the wall.

Food for thought....

The 20,000 avalon chips and klondikes will come online first

[Surprise]

Anyone who thinks AMC is going down may be interested in this contract.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=245354.new#new