[AMC]-The Official Active Mining Cooperative Discussion

[SoylentCreek]

BTW I can only presume you are so knowledgeable about your own business that if I give you a cotton seed and the seeds of a few pigment plants, you can turn them into a teeshirt by yourself.

Damn son!  Throw the man some aloe vera for that burn. 

[gramma]

I wonder if there were really any idiots listen to Ken's "advice", sold their Asicminer shares and bought AMC?

I assume you didn't so WTF are you posting in here for? There are enough people spamming this thread with useless shit.

Well, I sold one, plus a few TATs...

You were a bit silly to have purchased AMC shares in the first place given that the business structure has been public knowledge since day one.

Ayup. Already admitted as much.

You are being even more silly if you are selling now at a 'big loss'.

We'll see.  Got enough left to make up some of the difference if by some miracle this pig flies.  But having sold at the loss, I've also hedged against the whole thing going to zip, which seems increasingly likely.  YMMV, and everyone's appetite for risk/loss vary.

[stoasis]

I don't think VMC is gonna sell any pre orders even if VMC is legitimate due to the business structure and contracts between AMC and VMC. They have contradicting goals.

AMC has the first right of refusal on the rigs of VMC and In the best interest of AMC, Kslaughter would buy those rigs. Definitely until the debt has been repaid by VMC.

I don't see how VMC would be able to fulfill the preorders of the Fast-Hash-80's for August.

[auto2nr1]

Another thought. It is without any doubt that ASICMINER is going to be deploying more hashing power and will continue to sell their new generation of hardware to the enduser. If anything VMC/Ken should not be trying to make sales on hardware to the public anytime in the near future. AMC is going to have a hell of a hard time just trying to keep up with ASICMINER and also other mining farms that are not even open to the public yet. BTCGarden is going to be deploying probably sometime in Sept as well as Labcoin just to name a few companies that are working towards getting their products developed and their mining farms up and running. Also you have small time miners that are going to be joining the network. I alone have 840ghz that i will be mining with if suppliers come through by Sept/Oct. All that VMC hardware that is in the works is going to have to be used for AMC mining. Why is Ken even trying to get pre-orders going? AMC will have the first option to purchase and should purchase to keep up with the network. By the rate that the network is growing all of VMC's machines are going to have to be used for AMC mining. AMC is going to need all the hash power it can get. I think this is another major issue. It would make more sense if the hardware get's sold and AMC profits 100% from the sales. If Ken plans to sell VMC hardware and only kick down AMC 10% this is going to cause problems for the shareholders.

1. AMC won't be getting the much needed hashing power to keep up with the competition
2. VMC will be pocketing 90% of the hardware sales at the expense of investors that put up the money to fund VMC
3. AMC is left with little to nothing and the mining won't be able to keep up so the shares will be worth shit and the dividends will be dust as well
4. VMC will continue to grow and make hardware sales to other miners (not AMC)
5. Once AMC is not profitable Ken will let AMC die out and VMC will continue to generate revenue like ASICMINER (hardware sales), BFL, Avalon, KNCMiner, Metabank/BitFury

I would to keep a positive attitude towards AMC. If solutions are not found for the issues that i have posted the past few days then we are just funneling money into Ken's side venture that will eventually become bigger and more profitable than AMC. Just like in the CA gold rush back in the days the people who were selling shovels and mining equipment made a huge amount of profits. Not everyone that came for the gold rush ended up finding massive amounts of gold to get rich. The merchants that provided products and services for the miners ended up making bank. This is why AMC needs to sell the hardware and take in the profit (not Ken) for the investors to not burned at the end.

[Surprise]

The stock price may slide as investors panic but the company is not going under. Ken said has all the money he needs for now. He is selling shares because more money would be nice but not because it is a necessity. I think this post announcement storm is blowing over and soon things will change.

[zxyzxy]

AM, company by experienced people who already delivered and did everything they promised will fail but AMC, company by inexperienced people
who delivered nothing and can't even keep up with most promises made will be successful. Way to go buddy, sell your house and everything else
and put money into AMC!

you seem extremely frustrated without any reason to be. so as it seems you were the one that blindly sold his belongings/property, because you were greedy and now that things are going belly up, you are venting yourself on internet discussion boards, going all off topic and blabbing nonsense the whole time? you claim that you are not holding any shares (which i find hard to believe, haha), go and relax buddy.. go and shag something or i dont know, hit the gym or jog.

or... are you just a mad person? do you read your posts after yourself? go and read them.. you are acting like a twelve year old the whole time.

[Flashman]

• Engineering - Ken wrote the code for the chip, which eASIC ran and found to be acceptable.

Ken The Unknown walks into eASIC office and hands out the code for the chip. eASIC then design the chip for him. Welcome to Unicorn world! 

The experts say it works, so your problem is?

Tell us again about your extensive background in the garment and fashion industry.

[zxyzxy]

the thing with bitcoin is.. i guess one of the very few bad aspects.. even kids can invest into currency now and can be shareholders.. no ids, no documents.. and then it looks like this.. something goes sideways, against their wishes and they put a tamper tantrum up. what is that kids problem anyway? its our money.. we want to invest it? we will.. we dont want to, we will go elsewhere.. claiming he does not hold any position in this and acting all up like the biggest fool from all of them.. wtf..

[SoylentCreek]

AM, company by experienced people who already delivered and did everything they promised will fail but AMC, company by inexperienced people
who delivered nothing and can't even keep up with most promises made will be successful. Way to go buddy, sell your house and everything else
and put money into AMC!

you seem extremely frustrated without any reason to be. so as it seems you were the one that blindly sold his belongings/property, because you were greedy and now that things are going belly up, you are venting yourself on internet discussion boards, going all off topic and blabbing nonsense the whole time? you claim that you are not holding any shares (which i find hard to believe, haha), go and relax buddy.. go and shag something or i dont know, hit the gym or jog.

or... are you just a mad person? do you read your posts after yourself? go and read them.. you are acting like a twelve year old the whole time.

I find that it is easier to completely ignore him.  He has stated numerous times that he wants to destroy the company.  Now, whether this is actually true, or he's just trying to drive the price back down to the initial IPO range before buying in remains to be seen.  Bitcoin Megastore is by all accounts your classic troll.  He has brought very little to this discussion, yet is masquerading around as if he is doing us all a favour by being here.  None of us know why he's so angry with AMC.  Maybe his tees are not selling very well, maybe kslaughter killed his father, maybe he has a tiny penis, or maybe, just maybe he's just a dick.  Nonetheless, the forum is much better without him.

[Streets 2.0]

• Engineering - Ken wrote the code for the chip, which eASIC ran and found to be acceptable.

Ken The Unknown walks into eASIC office and hands out the code for the chip. eASIC then design the chip for him. Welcome to Unicorn world! 

The experts say it works, so your problem is?

Tell us again about your extensive background in the garment and fashion industry.

Now that is some funny shit and worthy of posting on.   All this battling back and forth on what is this and what is that.  I stepped into AMC small, just didn't want to be in the "miss the boat" crowd like I kind of was with ASICminer (1.9-2.3).  The jousting contest going on continues to keep AMC in the discussion, and I am long on AMC, burn or turn, the risk is what you are comfortable with.

[steveioio]

Fast-Hash-One now available in the VMC Store for 20% off now thru July 7th:

http://virtualminingcorp.com/shop1/index.php?id_product=10&controller=product

The base unit allows for up to 6 cards and goes from 256 GH/s to 1.536 TH/s.

You can add up to 6 Expansion Cases and 96 cards for a total hashing rate of 24.576 TH/s

This has to be the last desperate dash for cash from a very desperate man. What a coincidence that this came along just at the time the whole construct is being exposed for what it is. If anyone orders one of these machines from VMC they need their head examined. Actually scrub that - lolstate put your order in and let us know how it goes.

[ajk]

Everyone has been asking the same questions over and over for the last several days, I dont know why but Ken decides to not answer any of the questions and even wants to have power to manipulate the thread

There was a point brought by DaT stating that if Ken did in fact have the money to purchase all required devices / R&D why is he raising more capital, there should not be a need to have walls of 5 million and 1.6 million if Ken already had all the money to purchase everything,

frankly unless you bought in at .0025 there isnt any reason to hold AMC shares til Ken can answer clearly everything directly and prove that he does in fact have the NDA with eAsic, to many questions and not enough answers

[kslaughter]

[AMC] Hardware discussion and F.A.Q.

So, what do shares represent? Ownership?
Shares do not represent ownership, they are "solely a distribution mechanism for rights to profits", and used as a means to liquidation.

1 share of AMC on BitFunder represents 1/100,000,000th of 100% of the monthly profits after all expenses. AMC shares offer no voting rights. Shares of AMC on BitFunder do not represent real world shares of the company. The shares are solely a distribution mechanism for rights to profits.

Should the Cooperative be sold or closed, the full amount of the purchase price, liquidated income, and any mining revenue not distributed will be evenly distributed to the 100,000,000 shares.

Wait a minute... I'm not "owning" a part of AMC, just a piece of the "profits"
Welcome to the bitcoin stock exchange game. Learn the risks, and stay, or get out. Please read https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=245713.msg2616979#msg2616979

So, shares represent a part of profits then. How are they distributed?
Until at least May 2014, on the initial 40M, a minimum of 20M are retained for growth and expansion and a maximum of 20M can be sold to investors.
In May 2014, or when 0.0005 is payed by share, whichever happens later, an extra 60M are created, for the final total of 100M. On these remaining 60M, a minimum of 20M are retained for growth and expansion and a maximum of 40M can be sold to investors, with a 40M being retained by AMC/Ken.

20,000,000 shares will be retained by AMC to maintain a growth and expansion fund.
As of the time of this writing, up to 40,000,000 will be released over time to the public on a varying time scale as capital is required to complete the project. Any remaining shares not included in the IPO are owned/maintained/controlled by AMC. These shares will be used at the issuers discretion for any uses deemed fit. These uses are not limited to, but may include employment.

So, I heard I am earning a lot from AMC right now, by bagging the dividends from all the unsold shares out of the 40M?
Wrong. The contract specifies that all dividends from issued shares still on AMC's hands are retained by the growth and expansion fund (the contract was originally written using correct terminology, but BF considers all shares "issued").

Dividends paid on unissued shares after the early-adopter phase will be retained by AMC and added to AMC's growth and expansion fund above until the shares are issued.

The first time I get a piece of the pie will be after a year of work (May 2014), when the rest of the 60M are issued. At that time, more 20M can be sold to investors, and I retain the remaining 40M.

I've read a lot of announcements, but have yet to see real documents. Can you please provide some?
Engineering Firm quote for Avalon machines: http://axs.net/AMC/SB-Prototype-Quote.jpg
eASIC NDA: http://axs.net/AMC/eAsic-NDA0001.jpg and http://axs.net/AMC/eAsic-NDA0002.jpg


So, how will the division between AMC and VMC be implemented, in respect to chip/machine sales?
Roughy, AMC takes care of the chips, VMC takes care of the machines:
- AMC develops the chip, pays the chip's NRE and sells the chip in bulk to customers (using VMC as intermediary).
- VMC uses AMC's chip (or any other chips) and builds bitcoin miners, paying a royalty cost to AMC whenever its IP is used.

Chip sales: AMC holds IP rights on the Fast-Hash-ONE chips, so AMC contracts with VMC the following services: (a) the representation services to negotiate chip production with eASIC and (b) the re-selling of AMC's chips in bulk. AMC also guarantees chip exclusivity to VMC, so that AMC won't negotiate a chip supply contract to any other bitcoin systems manufacturer. AMC gets 70% back from the profits on the sale of bulk chips, while VMC gets 30%. All of VMC's expenses, including representation, chip stock management and re-shipping expenses to final customers are taken from their 30% profit.

System sales: AMC also allows VMC to buy chips directly from eASIC at the lowest cost, for the manufacturing of bitcoin mining systems. On every sale of these systems or parts of it that contain AMC chips or IP, AMC receives a 10% royalty fee from the total gross sales revenue. Example: if a customer purchases a system for ฿100, AMC receives ฿10, whatever the profit margins for VMC are.

[Minor Miner]

[AMC] Hardware discussion and F.A.Q.

So, what do shares represent? Ownership?
Shares do not represent ownership, they are "solely a distribution mechanism for rights to profits", and used as a means to liquidation.

1 share of AMC on BitFunder represents 1/100,000,000th of 100% of the monthly profits after all expenses. AMC shares offer no voting rights. Shares of AMC on BitFunder do not represent real world shares of the company. The shares are solely a distribution mechanism for rights to profits.

Should the Cooperative be sold or closed, the full amount of the purchase price, liquidated income, and any mining revenue not distributed will be evenly distributed to the 100,000,000 shares.

Wait a minute... I'm not "owning" a part of AMC, just a piece of the "profits"
Welcome to the bitcoin stock exchange game. Learn the risks, and stay, or get out. Please read https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=245713.msg2616979#msg2616979

So, shares represent a part of profits then. How are they distributed?
Until at least May 2014, on the initial 40M, a minimum of 20M are retained for growth and expansion and a maximum of 20M can be sold to investors.
In May 2014, or when 0.0005 is payed by share, whichever happens later, an extra 60M are created, for the final total of 100M. On these remaining 60M, a minimum of 20M are retained for growth and expansion and a maximum of 40M can be sold to investors, with a 40M being retained by AMC/Ken.

20,000,000 shares will be retained by AMC to maintain a growth and expansion fund.
As of the time of this writing, up to 40,000,000 will be released over time to the public on a varying time scale as capital is required to complete the project. Any remaining shares not included in the IPO are owned/maintained/controlled by AMC. These shares will be used at the issuers discretion for any uses deemed fit. These uses are not limited to, but may include employment.

So, I heard I am earning a lot from AMC right now, by bagging the dividends from all the unsold shares out of the 40M?
Wrong. The contract specifies that all dividends from issued shares still on AMC's hands are retained by the growth and expansion fund (the contract was originally written using correct terminology, but BF considers all shares "issued").

Dividends paid on unissued shares after the early-adopter phase will be retained by AMC and added to AMC's growth and expansion fund above until the shares are issued.

The first time I get a piece of the pie will be after a year of work (May 2014), when the rest of the 60M are issued. At that time, more 20M can be sold to investors, and I retain the remaining 40M.

I've read a lot of announcements, but have yet to see real documents. Can you please provide some?
Engineering Firm quote for Avalon machines: http://axs.net/AMC/SB-Prototype-Quote.jpg
eASIC NDA: http://axs.net/AMC/eAsic-NDA0001.jpg and http://axs.net/AMC/eAsic-NDA0002.jpg


So, how will the division between AMC and VMC be implemented, in respect to chip/machine sales?
Roughy, AMC takes care of the chips, VMC takes care of the machines:
- AMC develops the chip, pays the chip's NRE and sells the chip in bulk to customers (using VMC as intermediary).
- VMC uses AMC's chip (or any other chips) and builds bitcoin miners, paying a royalty cost to AMC whenever its IP is used.

Chip sales: AMC holds IP rights on the Fast-Hash-ONE chips, so AMC contracts with VMC the following services: (a) the representation services to negotiate chip production with eASIC and (b) the re-selling of AMC's chips in bulk. AMC also guarantees chip exclusivity to VMC, so that AMC won't negotiate a chip supply contract to any other bitcoin systems manufacturer. AMC gets 70% back from the profits on the sale of bulk chips, while VMC gets 30%. All of VMC's expenses, including representation, chip stock management and re-shipping expenses to final customers are taken from their 30% profit.

System sales: AMC also allows VMC to buy chips directly from eASIC at the lowest cost, for the manufacturing of bitcoin mining systems. On every sale of these systems or parts of it that contain AMC chips or IP, AMC receives a 10% royalty fee from the total gross sales revenue. Example: if a customer purchases a system for ฿100, AMC receives ฿10, whatever the profit margins for VMC are.

Why not make the two companies, ONE company?   that would avoid a lot of the conflicts of interest that are already occurring and will continue to occur (like lending yourself (since you own the other company it is yourself) $1 Million Dollars interest free to gamble with).

[steveioio]

We have an addresses in Springfield, Missouri for VMC headquarters.

It's on a commercial industrial street surrounded by other general businesses. If there is anyone on this thread who could travel to this address and knock on the door, look for a VMC sign on the door (they need one for deliveries), ask around the neighboring business and watching comings and goings for the day then we could get an answer as to if this outfit is real or not.

I'm sure many of us here could donate some btc between us to pay travel costs to whoever is the closest. This is a large unit by the looks of it (though I can't yet locate it on googlemaps) so it must be where VMC are assembling their machines (if there are any).

Any takers? You shouldn't need back up (though it always helps) as this is a busy commercial unit street.

[Exocyst]

Chip sales: AMC holds IP rights on the Fast-Hash-ONE chips, so AMC contracts with VMC the following services: (a) the representation services to negotiate chip production with eASIC and (b) the re-selling of AMC's chips in bulk. AMC also guarantees chip exclusivity to VMC, so that AMC won't negotiate a chip supply contract to any other bitcoin systems manufacturer. AMC gets 70% back from the profits on the sale of bulk chips, while VMC gets 30%. All of VMC's expenses, including representation, chip stock management and re-shipping expenses to final customers are taken from their 30% profit.

System sales: AMC also allows VMC to buy chips directly from eASIC at the lowest cost, for the manufacturing of bitcoin mining systems. On every sale of these systems or parts of it that contain AMC chips or IP, AMC receives a 10% royalty fee from the total gross sales revenue. Example: if a customer purchases a system for ฿100, AMC receives ฿10, whatever the profit margins for VMC are.

I don't suspect the trolls will like this. However, as a shareholder (someone who has actually put a fair bit of coin into AMC), I am very glad to see some clarity on this particular point.

[SoylentCreek]

[AMC] Hardware discussion and F.A.Q.

So, what do shares represent? Ownership?
Shares do not represent ownership, they are "solely a distribution mechanism for rights to profits", and used as a means to liquidation.

1 share of AMC on BitFunder represents 1/100,000,000th of 100% of the monthly profits after all expenses. AMC shares offer no voting rights. Shares of AMC on BitFunder do not represent real world shares of the company. The shares are solely a distribution mechanism for rights to profits.

Should the Cooperative be sold or closed, the full amount of the purchase price, liquidated income, and any mining revenue not distributed will be evenly distributed to the 100,000,000 shares.

Wait a minute... I'm not "owning" a part of AMC, just a piece of the "profits"
Welcome to the bitcoin stock exchange game. Learn the risks, and stay, or get out. Please read https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=245713.msg2616979#msg2616979

So, shares represent a part of profits then. How are they distributed?
Until at least May 2014, on the initial 40M, a minimum of 20M are retained for growth and expansion and a maximum of 20M can be sold to investors.
In May 2014, or when 0.0005 is payed by share, whichever happens later, an extra 60M are created, for the final total of 100M. On these remaining 60M, a minimum of 20M are retained for growth and expansion and a maximum of 40M can be sold to investors, with a 40M being retained by AMC/Ken.

20,000,000 shares will be retained by AMC to maintain a growth and expansion fund.
As of the time of this writing, up to 40,000,000 will be released over time to the public on a varying time scale as capital is required to complete the project. Any remaining shares not included in the IPO are owned/maintained/controlled by AMC. These shares will be used at the issuers discretion for any uses deemed fit. These uses are not limited to, but may include employment.

So, I heard I am earning a lot from AMC right now, by bagging the dividends from all the unsold shares out of the 40M?
Wrong. The contract specifies that all dividends from issued shares still on AMC's hands are retained by the growth and expansion fund (the contract was originally written using correct terminology, but BF considers all shares "issued").

Dividends paid on unissued shares after the early-adopter phase will be retained by AMC and added to AMC's growth and expansion fund above until the shares are issued.

The first time I get a piece of the pie will be after a year of work (May 2014), when the rest of the 60M are issued. At that time, more 20M can be sold to investors, and I retain the remaining 40M.

I've read a lot of announcements, but have yet to see real documents. Can you please provide some?
Engineering Firm quote for Avalon machines: http://axs.net/AMC/SB-Prototype-Quote.jpg
eASIC NDA: http://axs.net/AMC/eAsic-NDA0001.jpg and http://axs.net/AMC/eAsic-NDA0002.jpg


So, how will the division between AMC and VMC be implemented, in respect to chip/machine sales?
Roughy, AMC takes care of the chips, VMC takes care of the machines:
- AMC develops the chip, pays the chip's NRE and sells the chip in bulk to customers (using VMC as intermediary).
- VMC uses AMC's chip (or any other chips) and builds bitcoin miners, paying a royalty cost to AMC whenever its IP is used.

Chip sales: AMC holds IP rights on the Fast-Hash-ONE chips, so AMC contracts with VMC the following services: (a) the representation services to negotiate chip production with eASIC and (b) the re-selling of AMC's chips in bulk. AMC also guarantees chip exclusivity to VMC, so that AMC won't negotiate a chip supply contract to any other bitcoin systems manufacturer. AMC gets 70% back from the profits on the sale of bulk chips, while VMC gets 30%. All of VMC's expenses, including representation, chip stock management and re-shipping expenses to final customers are taken from their 30% profit.

System sales: AMC also allows VMC to buy chips directly from eASIC at the lowest cost, for the manufacturing of bitcoin mining systems. On every sale of these systems or parts of it that contain AMC chips or IP, AMC receives a 10% royalty fee from the total gross sales revenue. Example: if a customer purchases a system for ฿100, AMC receives ฿10, whatever the profit margins for VMC are.

Why not make the two companies, ONE company?   that would avoid a lot of the conflicts of interest that are already occurring and will continue to occur (like lending yourself (since you own the other company it is yourself) $1 Million Dollars interest free to gamble with).

I second this.  I think the way it is setup now leads many to believe that Ken (AMC/VMC) is getting the lion's share of the profits while putting the bulk of the risks of investors.  I have no intention of selling what I currently have in there anytime soon, but whether I invest anymore remains to be seen as to whether the AMC/VMC thing gets sorted out.  If Ken wants to keep the companies separate, that's fine.  Let me also invest into VMC.

[steveioio]

I've read a lot of announcements, but have yet to see real documents. Can you please provide some?
Engineering Firm quote for Avalon machines: http://axs.net/AMC/SB-Prototype-Quote.jpg
eASIC NDA: http://axs.net/AMC/eAsic-NDA0001.jpg and http://axs.net/AMC/eAsic-NDA0002.jpg

1) OK Ken we know there is an NDA as eASIC confirmed it a week ago. What we need to know is the contract and nature of the business between you and eASIC. The NDA by itself ammounts to nothing as it could be a pre-condition you have applied to talks that have yet to happen - or will never happen. I repeat - an NDA amounts to nothing without a contract.

2) Is this quote a JOKE? You have been in operations for months and taking milions of Dollars of peoples money and this quote is FIVE DAYS OLD. Simply STAGGERING.

[Vbs]

(...)
2) Is this quote a JOKE? You have been in operations for months and taking milions of Dollars of peoples money and this quote is FIVE DAYS OLD. Simply STAGGERING.

Most of the funds from the 5M shares sold initially went all into buying hardware already, more than a month now.

[kslaughter]

We have an addresses in Springfield, Missouri for VMC headquarters.

It's on a commercial industrial street surrounded by other general businesses. If there is anyone on this thread who could travel to this address and knock on the door, look for a VMC sign on the door (they need one for deliveries), ask around the neighboring business and watching comings and goings for the day then we could get an answer as to if this outfit is real or not.

I'm sure many of us here could donate some btc between us to pay travel costs to whoever is the closest. This is a large unit by the looks of it (though I can't yet locate it on googlemaps) so it must be where VMC are assembling their machines (if there are any).

Any takers? You shouldn't need back up (though it always helps) as this is a busy commercial unit street.

Yes, this is a good idea, we don't have a sign yet, as we are still setting up.  Just received an order of cases and power supplies last week.  So we are getting there, just installed a security system also.