[AMC]-The Official Active Mining Cooperative Discussion

[lysr]

Dream of becoming Asicminer 2.0 fulfilled just by copying the contract of Asicminer!

[fdahq]

I agree with you, this is not a good thing, just to make things more complicated. You need to know: Your remarks and any one wrong decision will cause the stock price fell, which we support your people is a bad luck. I suggest you integrate together. Do not split into three companies, and it's really annoying!

I don't think that is going to happen, AMC will continue to exist for a long time to come.  Even if the 10M shares where all swapped for VMC shares, AMC still has more to offer and will continue to grow.  The only difference will be that some of the revenue from AMC will flow into VMC.  I think it is a win for AMC and a win for VMC.  

Ken, from the bolded points above, it is clear that you have mixed up what was supposed to happen ... what everyone was asking for.

AMC and VMC was supposed to be merged ... so that there is only ONE entity.

Now, you are completely changing this around so that both will still exist, and AMC will grow ??

This is completely wrong! and will bring us right back to all the issues and dramas of the last 130 pages of this thread.

You need to merge AMC into VMC, with the express intention of COMPLETELY dropping AMC from existence.

Sure, it will take sometime for all AMC shares to be swapped over, but no one is going to hold on to AMC shares on purpose when they know AMC is being closed/merged into VMC.

If you don't do this, and FIX what you have been saying for the past few pages, then we are right back where we started. Two companies, and a lot of crap in between.

Please fix it, and stop confusing/mixing sh!t up.

Introduction
ActiveMining (AM) is a virtual identity totally held by the owner(s) of the Active Mining Corporation.

So ... instead of simplifying things and moving from 2 companies to 1 - you introduce a 3rd one.

So now, 3 companies!  

Ken, seriously mate, you need to think things through properly, or find someone to do it for you.

Shareholders/investors are asking for ONE company, and you keep complicating things.

This does not bode well.

[ronaldlee0917]

Omg, crashing

[wonker]

I agree with you, this is not a good thing, just to make things more complicated. You need to know: Your remarks and any one wrong decision will cause the stock price fell, which we support your people is a bad luck. I suggest you integrate together. Do not split into three companies, and it's really annoying!

Stock prices are falling already. Investors are giving up...

[ArcticWolf]

I agree with you, this is not a good thing, just to make things more complicated. You need to know: Your remarks and any one wrong decision will cause the stock price fell, which we support your people is a bad luck. I suggest you integrate together. Do not split into three companies, and it's really annoying!

Stock prices are falling already. Investors are giving up...

Only the weak hands. My only regret is that my coins are tied up or Id be grabbing these cheap shares

[metalh47k]

Ken is on a mini vacation at the moment.

I am confident he will really sort things out once he gets back. A clear concise overview of what is happening and then a detailed breakdown of whats happening would really ease my mind and maybe those of the skeptics. Dumping now (weak hands) will only net small gains, look for the long term.

[FloatesMcgoates]

Haha, thankfully I got out earlier but now I think im going to buy some cheap shares back.

It seems as though people just dont understand the new contract with the new entity "ActiveMining", the way I read it is that "ActiveMining" becomes what AMC is now, that is the mining only side of the operation. This is while the current AMC becomes the combined AMC+VMC company, as you can see when Ken typed (Emphasis mine)

The Active Mining Corporation's business includes cryptocoin mining and sales of self-built ASIC devices through its wholly owned subsidiary Virtual Mining Corporation (VMC).

[auto2nr1]

***MY VERSION OF WHAT THE CONTRACT SHOULD LOOK LIKE**

VMC/AMC Merger

This is a Pre-Merger VMC Offering.

(This Is For Community Review Only)

The Final Offering May Be DIFFERENT

(This Document Is For Community Review Only And May Contain Errors)

**STRUCTURE**

   ENTITY NAME
   -----^-----
  |               |
 40%          60%
PUBLIC       MGMT
OWNED      OWNED

40% of the shares will be sold to the public (10m shares)
60% of the shares will be held privately by management (15m shares)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Introduction
The ENTITY NAME HERE (VMC) business includes cryptocoin mining and sales of self-built ASIC devices. The public will hold 10,000,000 shares (40%), while ENTITY NAME (VMC) owner(s) shall hold 15,000,000 shares (60%), for a total of 25,000,000 shares (100%).

The issuing of more shares will be allowed in the future, provided there is strong economic justification, mainly on the basis of covering emergent capital needs. Existing shareholders also get the first choice for buying new shares before they are sold on the open market. The volume of new shares shall be kept at a minimum as much as possible and the pricing of them should be such that the total value of all assets (tangible and intangible) per share does not diminish, protecting shareholders as much as possible from future dilution of value.

How to buy shares
ENTITY NAME HERE (VMC) shares will be sold on BitFunder and BTCT.CO, following asset approval. Existing Active Mining Cooperative (AMC) shareholders will be entitled to trade their shares for ENTITY NAME HERE (VMC) shares, on a 1:1 basis.

Dividend payment
The income, including mining income, sales via bitcoins or other cryptocoins and fiat income transferred to bitcoins, will be paid to shareholders proportionally, when all manufacturing, maintenance, labor costs, R&D, and miscellaneous expenses are deducted.

Our chips
Generation 1: Fast-Hash. 28nm. Each chip's rated frequency is 800 MHz at 1.15V. It translates to 16,000 MH/s because it does 20 hashs per cycle. Chip requires proper handling of heat and power supply.

***MY VERSION OF WHAT THE CONTRACT SHOULD LOOK LIKE**

You can fill in the ENTITY NAME with the name of your choice. I am guessing it will be VMC. AMC will eventually cease to exist. If you want to call the 40% of the shares a "division" of VMC called Active Mining, AMC or whatever you feel is a good name for that division/dept then so be it. I believe this is close how ASICMINER is structured. BitFountain would be equivalent to what would be VMC (60% privately held by owners) in this contract and the 40% of the shares that is sold to the public would be ASICMINER which would be Active Mining or any name of your choice if you wanted to distinguish public vs private shares. But the important thing is that we would be one entity with a total of 25m shares (10m for public and 25m for private).

I think this is more what what we are looking for. ONE ENTITY. This should clear up any confusion. Let me know if you guys are on board with this revision. You should build on top of this Ken if the other shareholders agree to my revision.

[ArcticWolf]

Or if it is going to be a parent company with 2 subsidiaries, possibly add a section to the contract such as:

How it will work.
100% of all sales profit from VMC will be passed to its parent company, AM. 100% of AMC mining profit will be passed to its 40M shareholders. Currently AM holds X shares of AMC, and so recieves X% of AMC's mining profits.
AM will pay its shareholders the sales dividend from VMC and the mining dividend from its shares in AMC.

Im not a professional contract writer, so Im sure that can be translated into legal speak for the actual contract.

[discobean]

I think this is more what what we are looking for. ONE ENTITY. This should clear up any confusion. Let me know if you guys are on board with this revision. You should build on top of this Ken if the other shareholders agree to my revision.

^^ This and 100% of shares should be publicly listed and visible on an exchange.

[ArcticWolf]

***MY VERSION OF WHAT THE CONTRACT SHOULD LOOK LIKE**

VMC/AMC Merger

This is a Pre-Merger VMC Offering.

(This Is For Community Review Only)

The Final Offering May Be DIFFERENT

(This Document Is For Community Review Only And May Contain Errors)

**STRUCTURE**

   ENTITY NAME
   -----^-----
  |               |
 40%          60%
PUBLIC       MGMT
OWNED      OWNED

40% of the shares will be sold to the public (10m shares)
60% of the shares will be held privately by management (15m shares)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Introduction
The ENTITY NAME HERE (VMC) business includes cryptocoin mining and sales of self-built ASIC devices. The public will hold 10,000,000 shares (40%), while ENTITY NAME (VMC) owner(s) shall hold 15,000,000 shares (60%), for a total of 25,000,000 shares (100%).

The issuing of more shares will be allowed in the future, provided there is strong economic justification, mainly on the basis of covering emergent capital needs. Existing shareholders also get the first choice for buying new shares before they are sold on the open market. The volume of new shares shall be kept at a minimum as much as possible and the pricing of them should be such that the total value of all assets (tangible and intangible) per share does not diminish, protecting shareholders as much as possible from future dilution of value.

How to buy shares
ENTITY NAME HERE (VMC) shares will be sold on BitFunder and BTCT.CO, following asset approval. Existing Active Mining Cooperative (AMC) shareholders will be entitled to trade their shares for ENTITY NAME HERE (VMC) shares, on a 1:1 basis.

Dividend payment
The income, including mining income, sales via bitcoins or other cryptocoins and fiat income transferred to bitcoins, will be paid to shareholders proportionally, when all manufacturing, maintenance, labor costs, R&D, and miscellaneous expenses are deducted.

Our chips
Generation 1: Fast-Hash. 28nm. Each chip's rated frequency is 800 MHz at 1.15V. It translates to 16,000 MH/s because it does 20 hashs per cycle. Chip requires proper handling of heat and power supply.

***MY VERSION OF WHAT THE CONTRACT SHOULD LOOK LIKE**

You can fill in the ENTITY NAME with the name of your choice. I am guessing it will be VMC. AMC will eventually cease to exist. If you want to call the 40% of that shares a "division" of VMC called Active Mining, AMC or whatever you feel is a good name for that division. I believe this is close how how ASICMINER is structured. BitFountain would be equivalent to what would be VMC (60% privately held by owners) in this contract and the 40% of the shares that is sold to the public would be ASICMINER which would be Active Mining or any name of your choice if you wanted to distinguish public vs private shares. But the important thing is that we would be one entity with a total of 25m shares (10m for public and 15m for private).

I think this is more what what we are looking for. ONE ENTITY. This should clear up any confusion. Let me know if you guys are on board with this revision. You should build on top of this Ken if the other shareholders agree to my revision.

I like it. I think that going to one company (in lieu of the subsidiary type arrangement that was proposed) will make the whole process easier for shareholders to see whats happening.

[discobean]

I like it. I think that going to one company (in lieu of the subsidiary type arrangement that was proposed) will make the whole process easier for shareholders to see whats happening.

Yes, this way it will be a carbon copy of asicminer, but with the difference that shares can be diluted.

I'm not against Ken, the simpler it is, then everybody can make an informed choice.  The more complicated Ken tries to make it, the more it looks like the scam - until this is fixed, I still smell scam.

Finally, nobody has any idea where the 20BTC a day comes from?  I want to know so that he's not doing a Ponzi.

[ronaldlee0917]

I like it. I think that going to one company (in lieu of the subsidiary type arrangement that was proposed) will make the whole process easier for shareholders to see whats happening.

Yes, this way it will be a carbon copy of asicminer, but with the difference that shares can be diluted.

I'm not against Ken, the simpler it is, then everybody can make an informed choice.  The more complicated Ken tries to make it, the more it looks like the scam - until this is fixed, I still smell scam.

Finally, nobody has any idea where the 20BTC a day comes from?  I want to know so that he's not doing a Ponzi.

There are 6 Avalon machines running now.

[madmalkav]

I like it. I think that going to one company (in lieu of the subsidiary type arrangement that was proposed) will make the whole process easier for shareholders to see whats happening.

Yes, this way it will be a carbon copy of asicminer, but with the difference that shares can be diluted.

I'm not against Ken, the simpler it is, then everybody can make an informed choice.  The more complicated Ken tries to make it, the more it looks like the scam - until this is fixed, I still smell scam.

Finally, nobody has any idea where the 20BTC a day comes from?  I want to know so that he's not doing a Ponzi.

6 Avalon machines mining and dividens being paid to 40 million shares, not the whole 100 millions shares, as stated repeteadly in this thread and the IPO. So it is more like 10BTC a day, totally makeable at the current network dificulty with that equipment.

[discobean]

6 Avalon machines mining and dividens being paid to 40 million shares, not the whole 100 millions shares, as stated repeteadly in this thread and the IPO. So it is more like 10BTC a day, totally makeable at the current network dificulty with that equipment.

Ok, last I heard they only had 3, I see their account is doing 425GH/s on btc guild.

When will they start paying divs for the full 100m?

[ArcticWolf]

6 Avalon machines mining and dividens being paid to 40 million shares, not the whole 100 millions shares, as stated repeteadly in this thread and the IPO. So it is more like 10BTC a day, totally makeable at the current network dificulty with that equipment.

Ok, last I heard they only had 3, I see their account is doing 425GH/s on btc guild.

When will they start paying divs for the full 100m?

It was going to be ~8 months from now, but now as the two companies are merging, the divs will be paid over the 25M shareholders of the new company, as well as any holdouts of AMC shares.

[EskimoBob]

I have to agree with previous posts and like to add something to it

Code:

**STRUCTURE**

      XYZ 
   -----^-----
  |               |
 40%          60%
PUBLIC       MGMT
OWNED      OWNED

40% of the shares will be sold to the public (10m shares)
60% of the shares will be held privately by management (15m shares)

Yes, this is clean and there is no need for wholly owned subsidiary stuff at all.
AMC or VMC will absorb the other and be done with it. Lets call it XYZ for now.

Now, because there are publicly traded shares and privately held shares, there has to be a clean and transparent way to split the new XYZ shares 60:40.
One way to do it is to list all shares (100%) and move 60% of priv stuff to special accounts, that are locked and can not trade (must be in the contract) but receive the divs, can vote etc.

Any shares on issuers account (XYZ) are considered treasury stock and do not receive any dividends nor can be used for voting. Btct.co has this mechanism in place and it works too.
Any shares bought back by XYZ, will become automatically treasury stock and lose all the rights to vote or receive dividends.

Now you/we can be sure, that divs are distributed correctly, there is no question about votes, there is no confusion about treasury stock or priv held shares etc.

If priv. accounts are locked down, there will be none of those "but I sold someone else shares blaa blaa " that happened in SDICE saga.

What about shareholders equity? In the real world, every coin received from selling shares becomes a shareholders equity.

What about those privately held shares? Are they paying anything for the shares they receive?

[ArcticWolf]

I have to agree with previous posts and like to add something to it

Code:

**STRUCTURE**

      XYZ 
   -----^-----
  |               |
 40%          60%
PUBLIC       MGMT
OWNED      OWNED

40% of the shares will be sold to the public (10m shares)
60% of the shares will be held privately by management (15m shares)

Yes, this is clean and there is no need for wholly owned subsidiary stuff at all.
AMC or VMC will absorb the other and be done with it. Lets call it XYZ for now.

Now, because there are publicly traded shares and privately held shares, there has to be a clean and transparent way to split the new XYZ shares 60:40.
One way to do it is to list all shares (100%) and move 60% of priv stuff to special accounts, that are locked and can not trade (must be in the contract) but receive the divs, can vote etc.

Any shares on issuers account (XYZ) are considered treasury stock and do not receive any dividends nor can be used for voting. Btct.co has this mechanism in place and it works too.
Any shares bought back by XYZ, will become automatically treasury stock and lose all the rights to vote or receive dividends.

Now you/we can be sure, that divs are distributed correctly, there is no question about votes, there is no confusion about treasury stock or priv held shares etc.

If priv. accounts are locked down, there will be none of those "but I sold someone else shares blaa blaa " that happened in SDICE saga.

What about shareholders equity? In the real world, every coin received from selling shares becomes a shareholders equity.

What about those privately held shares? Are they paying anything for the shares they receive?

Only question I have is how do the people that run the company get paid if the shares held by the company take no dividend?
Do they just get a flat fee off the top?

[EskimoBob]

I have to agree with previous posts and like to add something to it

Code:

**STRUCTURE**

      XYZ 
   -----^-----
  |               |
 40%          60%
PUBLIC       MGMT
OWNED      OWNED

40% of the shares will be sold to the public (10m shares)
60% of the shares will be held privately by management (15m shares)

Yes, this is clean and there is no need for wholly owned subsidiary stuff at all.
AMC or VMC will absorb the other and be done with it. Lets call it XYZ for now.

Now, because there are publicly traded shares and privately held shares, there has to be a clean and transparent way to split the new XYZ shares 60:40.
One way to do it is to list all shares (100%) and move 60% of priv stuff to special accounts, that are locked and can not trade (must be in the contract) but receive the divs, can vote etc.

Any shares on issuers account (XYZ) are considered treasury stock and do not receive any dividends nor can be used for voting. Btct.co has this mechanism in place and it works too.
Any shares bought back by XYZ, will become automatically treasury stock and lose all the rights to vote or receive dividends.

Now you/we can be sure, that divs are distributed correctly, there is no question about votes, there is no confusion about treasury stock or priv held shares etc.

If priv. accounts are locked down, there will be none of those "but I sold someone else shares blaa blaa " that happened in SDICE saga.

What about shareholders equity? In the real world, every coin received from selling shares becomes a shareholders equity.

What about those privately held shares? Are they paying anything for the shares they receive?

Only question I have is how do the people that run the company get paid if the shares held by the company take no dividend?
Do they just get a flat fee off the top?

You are confusing the Company and the shareholders (major or not).
Billy Smith is NOT a a Co. Billy Smith can hold shares in Co. and that is it. They are not the same "person" (or entity)
Please take 5 min and read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treasury_stock 

[EskimoBob]

and btw, any salary paid is a expense and this will reduce the net income, that is used to calculate the dividends.
People holding priv distributed shares are no different form people holding publicly traded shares unless there are some special conditions set.