[AMC]-The Official Active Mining Cooperative Discussion

[EskimoBob]

Hmm.. but where is the rest of it?

The rest of what? Remember that this is just the June account

Exactly. So my question is still same: where is the rest of it.

If I recall, there must have been a initial private placement (management? you?) to get the coin/USD/EUR to buy some  avalons chips and boardsetc. so:
1) How much capital was raised? (number please. This is your "start-up capital" aka initial share capital (aka "shareholders equity") (has NOTHING to do with current share price.) Number of shares sold, total money raised. (and total BTC)
2) How much was used to buy (fixed)assets (ASIC chips, boards? etc) (number please and exactly what)
3) Any other expenses? What exactly and numbers please
4) Any liabilities? (loans, bills waiting to be paid)

5) IPO - shares sold, coin raised? (as of June 30) How many sold, how much capital raised
6) Any shares bought back? How many and at what price (this is going to complicate things but not much)

Actually... WTF! If this is a "Investments" subforum, why do I even have to explain shit like this? This is a standard high-school economics class curriculum

kslaughter, if you need help with this stuff, please let me know.

[ldrgn]

Why is nobody [1] calling out this financial statement-like thing as total bullshit?  I get what he's going after but couldn't you at least make an attempt to have debits equal to credits?  AMC investors, your CEO is completely bush league.

[1] except eskimo bob, I just saw that now.

[lewicki]

Because we realize the amount of work that he currently has on his plate. If you want Forbes 500 financial statements, then you're going to have to go elsewhere. Maybe in a year when the dust has settled we can start thinking about that. But by that time, the price per share will have reflected that risk by then.

[LordMeowMeow]

Why is nobody [1] calling out this financial statement-like thing as total bullshit?  I get what he's going after but couldn't you at least make an attempt to have debits equal to credits?  AMC investors, your CEO is completely bush league.

[1] except eskimo bob, I just saw that now.

I for one did not invest in an accountant,

I invested in someone that is going to design their own ASIC chip.

If someone isn't taking investment funds seriously and providing 100% accurate statements, it makes you wonder what else they're fudging.

[lolstate]

Why is nobody [1] calling out this financial statement-like thing as total bullshit?  I get what he's going after but couldn't you at least make an attempt to have debits equal to credits?  AMC investors, your CEO is completely bush league.

[1] except eskimo bob, I just saw that now.

I for one did not invest in an accountant,

I invested in someone that is going to design their own ASIC chip.

If someone isn't taking investment funds seriously and providing 100% accurate statements, it makes you wonder what else they're fudging.

Did they teach you that in high school economics, along with Eskimo?

Eskimo and Cat, you'd be happier leaving your investments to the 'experts' like Goldman Sachs. Bitcoin isn't for you.

[Streets 2.0]

Why is nobody [1] calling out this financial statement-like thing as total bullshit?  I get what he's going after but couldn't you at least make an attempt to have debits equal to credits?  AMC investors, your CEO is completely bush league.

[1] except eskimo bob, I just saw that now.

I for one did not invest in an accountant,

I invested in someone that is going to design their own ASIC chip.

If someone isn't taking investment funds seriously and providing 100% accurate statements, it makes you wonder what else they're fudging.

Did they teach you that in high school economics, along with Eskimo?

Eskimo and Cat, you'd be happier leaving your investments to the 'experts' like Goldman Sachs. Bitcoin isn't for you.

Debits do not equate to credits... net terms anyone?

Its a simple spreadsheet, do others expect a P/L, GL, and forecast models weekly?

[LordMeowMeow]

Why is nobody [1] calling out this financial statement-like thing as total bullshit?  I get what he's going after but couldn't you at least make an attempt to have debits equal to credits?  AMC investors, your CEO is completely bush league.

[1] except eskimo bob, I just saw that now.

I for one did not invest in an accountant,

I invested in someone that is going to design their own ASIC chip.

If someone isn't taking investment funds seriously and providing 100% accurate statements, it makes you wonder what else they're fudging.

Did they teach you that in high school economics, along with Eskimo?

Eskimo and Cat, you'd be happier leaving your investments to the 'experts' like Goldman Sachs. Bitcoin isn't for you.

Now that you're resorting to personal attacks I am done with this conversation. Good luck with your expert investments.

[lolstate]

Why is nobody [1] calling out this financial statement-like thing as total bullshit?  I get what he's going after but couldn't you at least make an attempt to have debits equal to credits?  AMC investors, your CEO is completely bush league.

[1] except eskimo bob, I just saw that now.

I for one did not invest in an accountant,

I invested in someone that is going to design their own ASIC chip.

If someone isn't taking investment funds seriously and providing 100% accurate statements, it makes you wonder what else they're fudging.

Did they teach you that in high school economics, along with Eskimo?

Eskimo and Cat, you'd be happier leaving your investments to the 'experts' like Goldman Sachs. Bitcoin isn't for you.

Now that you're resorting to personal attacks I am done with this conversation. Good luck with your expert investments.

Bye!

[bbxx]

paid shills should be banned.

did ken explained scammed magicians issue ?

[ldrgn]

I for one did not invest in an accountant,

I invested in someone that is going to design their own ASIC chip.

But if he can't create simple financial statements you have no idea what you're investing in.  Remember when SatoshiDice had its CEO vacuum up a bunch of btc investors thought were company funds?  That's the kind of thing that happens when people don't do proper disclosure.

[ldrgn]

If you want Forbes 500 financial statements, then you're going to have to go elsewhere.

This is a strawman - I'm not asking for that at all.  I'm asking for the basic financial statements that anyone who passed accounting 101 with a C can prepare.  Anyone with the slightest shred of business experience can prepare these and there are thousands of underemployed college students who can put them together.  This is a huge, huge red flag for everyone involved.  I'm ok with a CEO being accounting and finance clueless, but it crosses the line to have someone who is unable to delegate and/or recognize their own ignorance (dunning-kruger effect).

edit: and a lack of accounting/finance literacy means he might be unable to properly plan for and handle cash flow problems in the future.  It doesn't matter if you're the best BTC ASIC maker in the world, everyone has to deal with cash flow.

[iCEBREAKER]

Actually... WTF! If this is a "Investments" subforum, why do I even have to explain shit like this? This is a standard high-school economics class curriculum

kslaughter, if you need help with this stuff, please let me know.

Hi EB,

Have you made a similar list of indictments and demanded immediate answers from Friedcat about AsicMiner? 

They haven't put up a web page, much less a business plan or financial statement.

Why are you so strangely selective in which BTC investments you give the third degree? 

Are you only interested in opportunities to spread FUD?  Because that's how it looks when you only go after one particular enterprise.   

[iCEBREAKER]

Why is nobody [1] calling out this financial statement-like thing as total bullshit?  I get what he's going after but couldn't you at least make an attempt to have debits equal to credits?  AMC investors, your CEO is completely bush league.

[1] except eskimo bob, I just saw that now.

Hi ldrgn,

Have you made a similar list of indictments and demanded immediate answers from Friedcat about AsicMiner?

They haven't put up a web page, much less a business plan or financial statement. Are they "bush league" too?   

Why are you so strangely selective in which BTC investments you give the third degree?

Are you only interested in opportunities to spread FUD?  Because that's how it looks when you only go after one particular enterprise.   

[iCEBREAKER]

If someone isn't taking investment funds seriously and providing 100% accurate statements, it makes you wonder what else they're fudging.

Hi LMM,

Have you made a similar list of indictments and demanded immediate answers from Friedcat about AsicMiner?

They haven't put up a web page, much less a business plan or financial statement.  Are they not "taking investment funds seriously" too?   

Why are you so strangely selective in which BTC investments you give the third degree?

Are you only interested in opportunities to spread FUD?  Because that's how it looks when you only go after one particular enterprise.   

[iCEBREAKER]

If you want Forbes 500 financial statements, then you're going to have to go elsewhere.

This is a strawman - I'm not asking for that at all.  I'm asking for the basic financial statements that anyone who passed accounting 101 with a C can prepare.  Anyone with the slightest shred of business experience can prepare these and there are thousands of underemployed college students who can put them together.  This is a huge, huge red flag for everyone involved.  I'm ok with a CEO being accounting and finance clueless, but it crosses the line to have someone who is unable to delegate and/or recognize their own ignorance (dunning-kruger effect).

edit: and a lack of accounting/finance literacy means he might be unable to properly plan for and handle cash flow problems in the future.  It doesn't matter if you're the best BTC ASIC maker in the world, everyone has to deal with cash flow.

Hi ldrgn,

Have you made a similar list of concerns and demanded immediate answers from Friedcat about AsicMiner?

They haven't put up a web page, much less a business plan or financial statement.  Is that also a "huge, huge red flag" also?

Is Friedcat lacking "accounting/finance literacy" as well?   

Why are you so strangely selective in which BTC investments you give the third degree?

Are you only interested in opportunities to spread FUD?  Because that's how it looks when you only go after one particular enterprise.   

[Technologov]

AsicMiner have reached a $150 million dollar market cap, so having some accountants on team would definitely help.

I would like to see quality financial statements from Active Mining too...
But only after the company can afford professional accountants. For now, hobby financial statements are "good enough".

-Technologov

[lolstate]

Does AsicMiner have any aces up their sleeves that you are aware of?

As far as I know, ASICMINER are desperate for serious competition so they can expand mining and sales further. The 51% attack threat actually limits their ability to pull earth-shaking aces, assuming they have some.

By my rough estimate there is room for 3-4 major players in mining (each with 20% of the network), leaving the remaining 20%-40% for smaller, independent mining operations that will run hardware sold by the 'Majors'

[lolstate]

But how does AsicMiner intend to compete in the future considering the new ASIC technology coming?

51 attack - why would someone shoot themselves in the foot and take over (unless it's a government party)

I think ASICMINER will struggle unless they have a serious ASIC under development.

Even with new hardware, the 51% threat means Friedcat can't go over a serious chunk of the network without killing Bitcoin. He has said so and this is why he wants serious competition. Realistically, I think 20% mining capacity is probably as high as any Major player would want to go. Additional BTCs can be obviously be made selling mining equipment to smaller independents, network integrity is maintained even if they sum to 40%.

[EskimoBob]

Guys, this is beyond retarded. Some of you are upset because people are asking for a proper financial statement? Seriously!? WTF guys? You call it FUD? Are you on crack? (those are all rhetorical questions, move along)
This is not to hurt you or scare you. After all, it's your money (and mine)! I like to know what is happening to it.

BTW, it's completely OK if you do not understand how to read a reports and are not capable to comprehend the importance of proper financial statements. Relax and go read a comic book. No need to get all hysterical about it and start pulling straw man's out of your arse.

At the same time, it is not acceptable, if companies like ActiveMining, SDICE, Asicminer etc etc can not compile a proper reports while taking our money.
If you do not give a flying fuck, where your money is going... why are you so butthurt, if someone else ask for something as simple and common as a fkn financial statement? You feel stupid, because you do not understand it? Get over it.

If Co. has no idea how much coin it has scraped together and has no idea where the coin has gone... WTF do you expect? Oh, I remember, you expect fat dividends.  At the same time, if Co. has no idea wtf is going on withe finances (no accounting and no reporting) then how do YOU know you get the fair share form profits? How is this Co knowing what to pay out in divs in a first place?

Proper accounting as a expense is NOTHING compared to what can happen, when there is no accounting at all.
"This is bitcoin, we do not need reports and accounting" type of childish nonsense is utter bull shit and only shows your ignorance.

Un-fkn-believable...  

one more [big face palm image]

[lolstate]

^^^

This would be a great place for Ken to freeze the thread. Eskimo's stupidity frozen in aspic for future generations to point and laugh.