First BFL ASIC!

[Bogart]

You missed to touch on the part where betsofbitco.in turned out to be a crappy bet website, now being abandoned by a greater part of the bitcointalk community.

Is BitBet.us the next alternative?

No shit.

I used to give BoB lots of business.  Hundreds of BTC worth.

After this stunt, I won't be giving them one more Satoshi.

I doubt BitBet.us would have pulled something like this.

BoB can eat a whole bag.

This was a pretty interesting bet at the end.  Defiantly got my winnings worth.

How could you have when they welched on the bet and did not pay out any winnings?

[Beepbop]

It's not stealing. Everyone who put money in has got their money back. If you bet 15BTC and were expecting (say) 16BTC, the 1BTC has not been stolen. It isn't in BoB's pocket, it's back where it started before the bet. One thing is, if BoB didn't refund the charge to whoever authored the bet, that's bad and they should definitely do that.

I guess it all depends how much of a gambling problem you have.  

Even if he refunds the stakes without the fees, it is scamming.

It's a bit like a lottery scam, where you sell tickets, publicly draw numbers, and instead of paying the winner the grand prize, you just refund his ticket. "Sorry mate, your numbers add up to an even number - we don't pay out the grand prize to uneven numbers because it's bad luck and would bring the punishment of the gods - here's your stake back now go away."

Since the people who bet against BFL shipping clearly won - the Luke_JR posts are obviously ridiculous to any third party observer - the losers had a financial incentive to pay betsofbitco.in for calling draw and getting most of their money back.

It would have been a different situation altogether if there had been some reasonable argument over whether BFL has shipped or not.
 
I had no stake in the bet.

[Rampion]

I did not gamble on this.

But saying that OP is proof that BFL shipped their product is just a huge pile of BS.

What a shame.

[Rampion]

And Luke-JR: your "as of yesterday" in OP + some of your comments in this thread makes me think that you are colluding with BFL to try to manipulate the outcome of a stupid bet.

It's incredible to me that both BFL or you might be loosing your time on this senseless shit.

Luke, I had a deep respect for what you do, now I feel like I'm hallucinating.

[Bogart]

BTW, I started out that semi-long post I made a few minutes ago with the intention of presenting arguments for both sides.
I was surprised that I couldn't come up with any good arguments for the post-April betters... but it is what it is.

Try reading the title of the bet and see if you may figure any "intent" of what people might be actually betting on.  When I do that, it talks about a product "shipping".

The title seems to suggest an intent of referring to the product being with customers - that's usually what "shipping" refers to.
If the title were on its own, I would agree completely with the post-April position.
However, the details specifically elaborate on the definition of the bet, and that definition seems to have been met.

Wrong.  Pictures were posted on April 1.  The bet terms clearly say they must be *POSTED BEFORE APRIL*.

Correct bet outcome is true.

Are you being compensated by BFL in any way for your development efforts or making these statements?

I am making these statements of my own accord. BFL has not even suggested I make them, nor mentioned any bets to me other than Josh's seppuku thing.

Way to dodge the question.

So you never answered.

Are you being compensated by BFL in any way for your development efforts?

Still waiting for an answer from you.  Unless you can can honestly answer "no", the bet outcome is also true due to the "cannot be a BFL empolyee" point.

[Gator-hex]

USA takes a dim view of online gambling sites that do not pay out to US Citizens..

http://money.cnn.com/2012/07/02/news/companies/poker-ponzi/index.htm

A bitcoin is no different to a poker chip and you have people/family involved in this bet with previous criminal record for international lottery scam. Surely gonna interest the FBI, you'd be better paying out, than stirring up a hornets nest.

[Nancarrow]

Since the people who bet against BFL shipping clearly won - the Luke_JR posts are obviously ridiculous to any third party observer - the losers had a financial incentive to pay betsofbitco.in for calling draw and getting most of their money back.

If anyone on the losing side did indeed slip BoB a bribe to rule a draw, I'd certainly change my tune about BoB's conduct (also, as noted elsewhere, if anyone at BoB had any coins invested in that bet). But we haven't seen any evidence of this. What I think IS on much firmer ground is the supposition that Luke is colluding with Josh to manipulate the bet situation.

[Flying Hellfish]

I have no skin in this game, but what disturbs me is that BFL, Josh and Lukejr would appear to be actively working to manipulate a fucking bet...

Win lose or drawn this all makes BFL look like slimy pricks and Lukejr a BFL shill/fanboy/nuthugger, IN MY OPINION!  You clowns really played this PR move all wrong but that is definitely no surprise when the corporate public face acts like Josh does.

BoB you took the easy way out buy declaring a draw, I thought it was pretty clear the bet was won (BFL did not ship) and BFL was actively manipulating the bet to cast just enough doubt.  "Spirit" of the contest should never be over looked, its used to keep contests fair and ethical.

[Beepbop]

If anyone on the losing side did indeed slip BoB a bribe to rule a draw, I'd certainly change my tune about BoB's conduct (also, as noted elsewhere, if anyone at BoB had any coins invested in that bet). But we haven't seen any evidence of this.

The ruling itself is circumstantial evidence of corruption, because it does not make sense without a corrupt motive. Finding the actual payment, be it on the blockchain, in cash, in kind, etc. or to extract an admission would require actual serious investigation (search and seizure, wire taps, following the money through the bank system and the block chain).

What I think IS on much firmer ground is the supposition that Luke is colluding with Josh to manipulate the bet situation.

Well that's pretty obvious, as fraud goes it's so obvious and posted on April 1st that they might even try to claim it was a joke, but it still doesn't explain on its own why Luke's posts should lead betsofbitco.in to cancel the bet.

[carborundum]

You missed to touch on the part where betsofbitco.in turned out to be a crappy bet website, now being abandoned by a greater part of the bitcointalk community.

Is BitBet.us the next alternative?

No shit.

I used to give BoB lots of business.  Hundreds of BTC worth.

After this stunt, I won't be giving them one more Satoshi.

I doubt BitBet.us would have pulled something like this.

BoB can eat a whole bag.

Tried BoB and bitbet.us and It's bitbet.us all the way for me... Rapid, reliable payout and good decisions on tricky calls.

[Ekaros]

If anyone on the losing side did indeed slip BoB a bribe to rule a draw, I'd certainly change my tune about BoB's conduct (also, as noted elsewhere, if anyone at BoB had any coins invested in that bet). But we haven't seen any evidence of this.

The ruling itself is circumstantial evidence of corruption, because it does not make sense without a corrupt motive. Finding the actual payment, be it on the blockchain, in cash, in kind, etc. or to extract an admission would require actual serious investigation (search and seizure, wire taps, following the money through the bank system and the block chain).

What I think IS on much firmer ground is the supposition that Luke is colluding with Josh to manipulate the bet situation.

Well that's pretty obvious, as fraud goes it's so obvious and posted on April 1st that they might even try to claim it was a joke, but it still doesn't explain on its own why Luke's posts should lead betsofbitco.in to cancel the bet.

http://bitbet.us/bet/307/bfl-will-deliver-asic-devices-before-july-1st/

BFL_Josh

Hope you enjoyed our April Fool's joke this morning. We will still deliver by July 1st though. The power requirements are double and the hash rate is is half. So basically we are 4x our original power specs. Don't worry. We will have it figured out by July!

Is that some troll or are they really that stupid...

[fulepp]

I believe this huge amount of talk about the first device delivery because few people put some bobs on the table... That is fine... (if you like gambling...) But at this point i feel somebody try to cheat... (last minute video with a test board...)

Although, this is 3rd of April. Over the Easter holidays... and still... I can't see any official announcement from BFL about the shipment. As far I am considered that product what was shipped / not shipped is a test board for a developer (paid or not paid by BFL that's an other question).

Couldn't find any proud video / picture / post from BFL where we could see the ASIC mining continuously. That video what was uploaded was not the final product, it was not in the box what will be used to ship products to users, it was on the same test desk what we saw earlier, etc. At least i hope my ASIC rig will be nicely packaged. That is an other question when it will happen (in April or in December...).

BFL/Josh, when will you receive the new PCB? When will you have the final product ready and start to ship to users? (talking about real delivery not about the shipping of the developer units)

I am afraid to ask for any compensation for this huge delay (I am talking about promised first delivery in October). Every day is a huge loss for your customers who put faith in you and supported this development with their money!

[cpunks]

Couldn't find any proud video / picture / post from BFL where we could see the ASIC mining continuously.

You can view the hashing progress of any miner in the Eligius mining pool, including that device. And provided that wizkid's statistics don't lie (they certainly don't lie about my own 5850 working at 340 Mhash/s)...

...then Luke-Jr's ASIC been working at a steady 25 GHash/s speed for 2 days now. The stats are public:

http://eligius.st/~wizkid057/newstats/userstats.php/1CdcYVP4T4hjHwt353pEnGHrigeDLvuvZL


...as for all the other issues, I would also like to know more about how things are going, and I understand that waiting for half a year to reach this point must be quite frustrating.

[BR0KK]

I believe this huge amount of talk about the first device delivery because few people put some bobs on the table... That is fine... (if you like gambling...) But at this point i feel somebody try to cheat... (last minute video with a test board...)

Although, this is 3rd of April. Over the Easter holidays... and still... I can't see any official announcement from BFL about the shipment. As far I am considered that product what was shipped / not shipped is a test board for a developer (paid or not paid by BFL that's an other question).

Couldn't find any proud video / picture / post from BFL where we could see the ASIC mining continuously. That video what was uploaded was not the final product, it was not in the box what will be used to ship products to users, it was on the same test desk what we saw earlier, etc. At least i hope my ASIC rig will be nicely packaged. That is an other question when it will happen (in April or in December...).

BFL/Josh, when will you receive the new PCB? When will you have the final product ready and start to ship to users? (talking about real delivery not about the shipping of the developer units)

I am afraid to ask for any compensation for this huge delay (I am talking about promised first delivery in October). Every day is a huge loss for your customers who put faith in you and supported this development with their money!

From the ASIC Update thread:

28 March 2013 - Mini-Update

I had wanted to post a video tonight, but wasn't able to make that happen, so let me apologize for that in advance. As some of you may know from the chatbox, we have been working diligently to get these ASICs out the door. We've been tracking down a power issue these last few days and have it isolated to a few key systems. In the interest of time, we are planning on potentially scaling back units hashing speed as required to accommodate the extra power and shipping multiple units to those that want their units right now. If would would prefer to wait for a unit after we've made some changes to the systems that need a bit of tweaking, we will be happy to put your shipment on hold. However, if you'd rather have the units right now at an increased power usage, we will ship you as many units as required to get you to the hashrate your purchased, if we end up having to scale back any given class of unit to fit within the power envelope of the current board design.

We have the current design hashing, and as I said, I had hoped to have a video of a unit hashing here in KC, but I wasn't able to bring that all together tonight, but hopefully I can get it posted up tomorrow or by this weekend. I will update as soon as I have more news to share, with a video.

If you absolutely do not want a unit that is consuming more power than expected, you can let us know you'd like to wait for a revised unit or you are welcome to request a refund. If you'd rather have your units shipped regardless of increased power usage, we will still guarantee your hashrate by shipping you however many units are required to achieve your purchased hashrate. There is no need to contact us right now if you are not concerned about the power usage and just want your units shipped ASAP. Even with the increased power demand on these first units, they will still out perform any competing products by a very wide margin in terms of power and megahash/J.

Again, we apologize for the delay, but we are almost there.

Second:

I want to clarify the above post, as there is some potential confusion. We are not shipping yet. We plan on shipping possibly by the end of next week, but I will update on a shipping schedule as soon as I have more definitive information with regards to that.

Weaseling out of missed specs and so on

[Syke]

I have it hashing away 24/7 except for when I stop/restart/debug BFGMiner to try to optimize it better.

At what location is the device?

Luke-Jr, since you avoided the question I take that as confirmation that the device in question is at BFL's shop. BFL did not ship anything.

[fulepp]

I believe this huge amount of talk about the first device delivery because few people put some bobs on the table... That is fine... (if you like gambling...) But at this point i feel somebody try to cheat... (last minute video with a test board...)

Although, this is 3rd of April. Over the Easter holidays... and still... I can't see any official announcement from BFL about the shipment. As far I am considered that product what was shipped / not shipped is a test board for a developer (paid or not paid by BFL that's an other question).

Couldn't find any proud video / picture / post from BFL where we could see the ASIC mining continuously. That video what was uploaded was not the final product, it was not in the box what will be used to ship products to users, it was on the same test desk what we saw earlier, etc. At least i hope my ASIC rig will be nicely packaged. That is an other question when it will happen (in April or in December...).

BFL/Josh, when will you receive the new PCB? When will you have the final product ready and start to ship to users? (talking about real delivery not about the shipping of the developer units)

I am afraid to ask for any compensation for this huge delay (I am talking about promised first delivery in October). Every day is a huge loss for your customers who put faith in you and supported this development with their money!

From the ASIC Update thread:

28 March 2013 - Mini-Update

I had wanted to post a video tonight, but wasn't able to make that happen, so let me apologize for that in advance. As some of you may know from the chatbox, we have been working diligently to get these ASICs out the door. We've been tracking down a power issue these last few days and have it isolated to a few key systems. In the interest of time, we are planning on potentially scaling back units hashing speed as required to accommodate the extra power and shipping multiple units to those that want their units right now. If would would prefer to wait for a unit after we've made some changes to the systems that need a bit of tweaking, we will be happy to put your shipment on hold. However, if you'd rather have the units right now at an increased power usage, we will ship you as many units as required to get you to the hashrate your purchased, if we end up having to scale back any given class of unit to fit within the power envelope of the current board design.

We have the current design hashing, and as I said, I had hoped to have a video of a unit hashing here in KC, but I wasn't able to bring that all together tonight, but hopefully I can get it posted up tomorrow or by this weekend. I will update as soon as I have more news to share, with a video.

If you absolutely do not want a unit that is consuming more power than expected, you can let us know you'd like to wait for a revised unit or you are welcome to request a refund. If you'd rather have your units shipped regardless of increased power usage, we will still guarantee your hashrate by shipping you however many units are required to achieve your purchased hashrate. There is no need to contact us right now if you are not concerned about the power usage and just want your units shipped ASAP. Even with the increased power demand on these first units, they will still out perform any competing products by a very wide margin in terms of power and megahash/J.

Again, we apologize for the delay, but we are almost there.

Second:

I want to clarify the above post, as there is some potential confusion. We are not shipping yet. We plan on shipping possibly by the end of next week, but I will update on a shipping schedule as soon as I have more definitive information with regards to that.

Weaseling out of missed specs and so on

Thanks for the reply! Really appreciated.

I did read through on the forums and i did come across these news earlier. Although it happened almost 1 week ago. Can't find any other fresh post. I found just some updates on twitter.  https://twitter.com/BFL_News  So I guess the quoted info about shipping products as it is mentioned in the quote is no stand any more. Is it a correct assumption?

Why BFL leave the community to guess what are the next steps?

I really miss the official update from them. Be quiet so long, release video what just make more speculation is not a very good strategic. At least not from my point of view...
What are the new specs what they mentioned???

Tweets
 Unofficial BFL News ‏@BFL_News 21h
grnbrg - Before I get a flood of questions, I was just quoting BFL_StevenM's intro to a brief Shoutbox Q&A.  It wasn't an invitation.
Expand
 Unofficial BFL News ‏@BFL_News 21h
Overclocking is not a supported option. Custom enabling of chip cores or speed adjustments are not supported at this time.
Expand
 Unofficial BFL News ‏@BFL_News 21h
* New boards testing this week.  (...)  I'd guess shipping next week.
Expand
 Unofficial BFL News ‏@BFL_News 21h
* Power affects everything. Jalapeno may have to ship with external power. And possibly air cooling.
Expand
 Unofficial BFL News ‏@BFL_News 21h
* Chips count per device may change, depending on results this week
Expand
 Unofficial BFL News ‏@BFL_News 21h
BFL_StevenM (Shoutbox) - Got an engineer near me. Spam your questions and I'll try to pick a few.
Expand
 Unofficial BFL News ‏@BFL_News 1 Apr
Luke-Jr (Shoutbox) - if you have a Single-class device, you can use bfgminer git for it (https://github.com/luke-jr/bfgminer …)
 View summary   Reply  Retweet  Favorite   More
 Unofficial BFL News ‏@BFL_News 31 Mar
BFL_Josh (Shoutbox) - We will be honoring the 1000 BTC donation to charity.  We haven't decided what charity/ies we will be donating to yet.
Expand

[Syke]

Still waiting for an answer from you.  Unless you can can honestly answer "no", the bet outcome is also true due to the "cannot be a BFL empolyee" point.

He tries not to lie, and to answer truthfully he would have to admit being paid, so he won't answer you.

He is being paid $250/day. BFL is running a prototype and pointing the miner output to Luke-jr's wallet. You can watch the stats posting bitcoins to his wallet at:

http://eligius.st/~wizkid057/newstats/userstats.php/1CdcYVP4T4hjHwt353pEnGHrigeDLvuvZL

[Dalkore]

If any developers are interesting in creating a competing prediction market please PM.  I have found a framework.   My system will take the title and the primary statement, then the content and secondary conditions (as needed)

D

[ShadesOfMarble]

http://eligius.st/~wizkid057/newstats/userstats.php/1CdcYVP4T4hjHwt353pEnGHrigeDLvuvZL

Notice that drop? Did they switch the little SC for an old Minirig? :p

[ninjarobot]

BFL has been playing us all for fools. Pre-order customers and BoB betters alike. Welcome to the club!