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iamnotback (OP)
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February 18, 2017, 03:16:53 AM
Last edit: February 19, 2017, 03:20:20 AM by iamnotback |
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...no electricity and [no Internet]...
Such a total order is impossible because it would require snuffing out every decentralized instance of human ingenuity hiding under every blade of grass on the planet: (for the same reason NWO can't physically confiscate all the precious metals but NWO can sure as hell make them illiquid as I explained upthread [1] because of their requirement to be physically traded with centralized market makers who have large economies-of-scale; whereas, the NWO can't make crypto-currency illiquid because just like prohibition of alcohol in the prior century and decentralized file sharing, the more they try to stop it, the more decentralized users of it will increase) Recent comments on the electricity and Internet grid issue: Final warning to the goldbugs: See the one world outcome is the death star of collectivism. Again I refer him to my seminal article on the Rise of Knowledge: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=355212.0Focus on the "Rise of Knowledge" essay and understand why savings must decay otherwise knowledge doesn't advance. Armstrong is stuck in an anarchic idea of government and finance. He is blinded to the decentralized rise of the sovereign individual in the Knowledge Age. Thus to his hammer everything looks like a nail. He can only see everything in terms of government. He can't see the true revolution going on which government can't do a damn thing to stop. Let them try to turn off the electricity. Watch how fast the Knowledge Age
workers engineer a solution that bypasses their grid.Your idea makes a lot of sense iamnotback. I guess that Armstrong's view is colored by his dealings with government. While the systems function, they are very hard to defeat. But yes watch the engineers generate solutions. Even at the most basic level this already occurs - we see 3rd world nations improvise and innovate when government has failed them, an example being the plastic bottle + bleach + water, set in the roof to generate light.r0ach you do not even understand MA's thesis which derives from his extensive study of history.
Hyperinflation NEVER occurs in a country which is still able to sell its debt. It happens only in countries which are undergoing revolutions or dictatorships and where the public have lost confidence in the government. The USA has the strongest military and will not hyperinflate away the debt. At some point, they will do a monetary reset and rape you goldbugs. Watch and learn from the master.
I am not going to reply to the nonsense any more. Heading back to my profession as a computer programmer.
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iamnotback (OP)
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February 19, 2017, 03:45:06 AM
Last edit: February 19, 2017, 04:56:22 AM by iamnotback |
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It has always been my working thesis that none (let's say very few) of us can know the future. It is too complex...
For one thing, there is A REASON the majority of large human settlements through history have been bordering the ocean. If the crops go bad or if there's some type of scarcity issue, people just ratchet up the fishing. There will be no global "TEOTWAWKI".
Sorry guys but you are incorrect. Stage #5 is not just one of many possible outcomes, it is the ONLY possible outcome. And the totalitarianism will be global w.r.t. to all things tangible and physical (including precious metals!), thus the only release valve frontier will be decentralization network technology. See the problem with your idyllic and naive fishing plan, is that some power will be preventing you from fishing as TSHTF, because the masses are going to be demanding that the resources are shared equally (which will morph into rationing+eugenics) and the chaos is going to dictate that there is fighting over control of all strategic resources. Remember the masses are not armed (especially outside of the USA) and for example the coasts in the USA are leftists controlled States, e.g. California, Washington and the north-east seaboard. China has ample military to occupy the West coast of the USA and prop up the leftists. The fish food supply would be critical if the conservative interior of the country has shut off supply of food to the coasts. Shutting down trade with the world and access to electronics and other technology can cripple the interior of the USA. An essential ingredient is have an interior that is steadfast on resisting international cooperation and the rise of China, which is Trump is the leading edge of right now. China will see itself as leading the "free" world to international harmony by defeating the renegade white supremacists in the USA. It is very obvious why Rothschild used his influence over Wikileaks and media in the USA to install Trump (also so the conservatives will eat the blame for the global collapse caused by socialism). The socialism doesn't just die overnight. It dies a painful death of self-destructive totalitarianism. Haven't you guys learned anything from the studying the history of the collapse of Germany or Rome. If you want to understand why the entropy of the top-down ordered outcome is so low and thus so predictable, refer to the Petri dish analogy from my seminal essay: Also you have to factor in that China and Russia don't have the socialism and pension debts problem that the West has (their debts can be written off as their demographics and unfunded social liabilities are not yet a huge inertia so their downturn can bottom in 2020 whereas the West will continue to disintegrate even after 2032); thus as China is rebalancing their economy from the Industrial Age exports to the Knowledge Age service industry and consumption (see upthread links to Michael Pettis' blogs), they will displace the West, become the new financial center of the world, and be very strong. Thus the totalitarianism isn't going to abate, because on the heels of the disintegration of the West, China's and Russia's Technocracy form of oligarchy control is rising to a NWO. After Rothschilds' succeeds in dividing-and-conquering Europe and the USA, then he will send Chinese troops into the USA and Russian troops into Europe to complete the NWO enslavement. You aren't going to have any respite. The only release valve is going to be decentralization network technology. The Barbarians are the gates and in another couple to few of decades they will be in your living room. Your silly tangible assets are going to be pet rocks. What Rothschilds is doing right now is building a short dollar vortex of epic pain, so the world will hate the concept of a reserve currency controlled by any one nation. So the world will acceded to an international cooperative SDR reserve unit (which of course Rothshilds will control with the international central bank). |
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iamnotback (OP)
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February 22, 2017, 05:23:50 AM
Last edit: February 22, 2017, 05:54:33 AM by iamnotback |
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I'm not believing any more in the "unregulated" part. Yes, it will keep the appearances of "unregulated and distributed" but in fact it will be entirely institutionalized behind the doors. Bitcoin will be (if it isn't already) an institution's crypto. Of course it will not go away, but it will not be what you think it is. It will be like gold. Mainly manipulated, stored, owned, regulated by central banks. If it isn't already. The Chinese gov already has put their hands on the big Chinese exchanges. I'm sure the big miners are next. Of course, officially, the gov doesn't own them. But they tell them what to do.
Perhaps you missed one of my critically important posts lately explaining why gold is centralized but crypto-currency is not: ...no electricity and [no Internet]...
Such a total order is impossible because it would require snuffing out every decentralized instance of human ingenuity hiding under every blade of grass on the planet: (for the same reason NWO can't physically confiscate all the precious metals but NWO can sure as hell make them illiquid as I explained upthread [1] because of their requirement to be physically traded with centralized market makers who have large economies-of-scale; whereas, the NWO can't make crypto-currency illiquid because just like prohibition of alcohol in the prior century and decentralized file sharing, the more they try to stop it, the more decentralized users of it will increase)... Bitcoin can't be regulated without a total order of government in the world. And that isn't coming in the next year. By the time TPTB get their NWO one-world government system cooperation in place, Bitcoin will have already served its role as the onramp to unregulated decentralization technology innovation. China and others make a lot of noise about regulation, but as you see they all end up caving in and realizing they can't regulate private keys. Even if China monopolizes the mining, they can't blacklist private keys without destroying Bitcoin and forcing a new altcoin to rise to take its place. Bitcoin is far too small (compared the $trillions flow of FX capital flow in China) for China to attempt such a scorched earth policy on mining at this time (and they would likely fail just causing the rest of the world to blacklist China's mining pools or a fork changing the hash causing all China's mining farm investments to become useless overnight).
But behind the scenes, these deep state agents will in fact *put their hands on the bitcoin market* by owning a lot of it, but mainly, by telling the main (centralized) actors how to behave so that it suits them.
That is hand waving. The only way to stop someone who has his own wallet is to blacklist on the blockchain. Now that person can go online and state that his transaction has not be added by any miner after such a long period of time. The community will investigate. The only way to snuff out this exchange of information is to have a total order of totalitarian control on the Internet. Sorry your fears are unfounded. If ever it happens, then we are already in 1984 and we're all doomed. You seem to have a doomsday attitude, so I don't think you are likely to be in touch with the reality of what will transpire: I don't think we will reach stage #6. The Singularity will hit us first. We are just the breading ground for the machines to take over. They will take over the totalitarian mechanisms set in place in stage #5.
Btw, I have refuted the Singularity in the past. It will never happen. I don't want to debate it again right now, which is why I didn't respond to the above comment in that thread. Just put it this way, total orders have never existed in our universe. So the probability of total doomsday is 0. For machines to become more important than humans from an evolutionary standpoint (which is all that matters actually in terms of species extinction), then they must become alive and that means they must have a bell curve of attributes and have failure. Because without failure, there isn't existence of life (the past and future will collapse into undifferentiated without friction and imperfection). Infinite entropy can't exist. Kurzweil is a smart idiot. |
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iamnotback (OP)
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March 02, 2017, 08:56:48 PM |
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You may click this quote to read the entire discussion: Whereas, the confidence of goldbugs in gold is actually a historic perspective which is probably overconfident. The future of gold as a reliable settlement vehicle is dismal. If it's so dismal, why can't you name a single counter-example to replace it? I already did. My perspective is future oriented. Gold's dismal future is baked in regardless of whether a replacement is developed. Currency never holds value.
Please distinguish between the corrupt seniorage system of fiat and that of correctly distributed crypto-currency. Corrupt top-down controlled systems rot and decay. Decentralized paradigms are antifragile. Gold is no longer decentralized because it has lost its unit-of-account and unit-of-exchange usage, thus the market makers (for liquidity) are top-down controlled. |
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iamnotback (OP)
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March 09, 2017, 11:18:28 PM
Last edit: March 10, 2017, 05:58:51 AM by iamnotback |
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Cryptocurrency offers more utility than gold can ever imagine
The only purpose of metals as currency is to remove counter party risk while also satisfying a few other traits of money such as divisibility, durability, portability, fungibility, etc. Bitcoin doesn't actually remove counter party risk at all. It's also not fungible and any crypto that's not fungible is a permissioned ledger by default. Nor is it a valid store of generational wealth like gold and silver because the entire thing can just blow up at random. Therefore, the only thing bitcoin really does better is portability and a bit better granularity (with the added inconvenience of giant technical burden). In current state you have to be flat out lying to say bitcoin beats gold and silver as money. It's clearly inferior and there is no evidence that relationship will change anytime soon (beyond wild claims by Anonymintcoin). Bitcoin is only a currency and gold and silver are money; there's a big difference. The market is telling you that Bitcoin is the reserve currency of the experimentation that will unleash all that utility that crypto-currency and blockchains can do which precious metals never can. Bitcoin is now at parity with gold. The pattern of Android below is what crypto is going to do relative to precious metals: He is like 3-4 years behind any decent competition
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iamnotback (OP)
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March 10, 2017, 12:26:27 PM |
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Roach read http://unenumerated.blogspot.ca/2016/02/two-malthusian-scares.html?m=1#linksWe are in the offloading gold stage by elite.. oil producers are buying by converting from oil.. malthusian event is over and commodities are set to collapse lagging behind gold. Now where oh where the heck is smart money going to start putting their money over the next decade in anticipation of industrial usage actually catching up and producing the next malthusian event? Hint its sure as hell not back into gold.. as that would not.be very smart Excellent post. Plays right into the theme of my Rise of Knowledge, Demise of Finance essay. |
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iamnotback (OP)
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March 10, 2017, 12:27:22 PM |
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Hell, how can you write that ? Arbitrary choice of units, comparing 1/16 000 000 of market cap
Most above ground gold never trades nor created. All Bitcoin has been traded or created within the past 8 years. I wrote precious metals, and r0ach has been pitching silver, so compare the volatility of silver to Bitcoin (roughly the same). https://btcvol.info/http://teucrium.com/files/pdf/commoditiesinaportfolio.pdfIt is amazing that you contradict your own prediction, which was brilliant, now that it is being realized: the scalocalypse.
No contradiction. I never predicted the scalepocalypse would mean anything other than what it means technically and the centralization of mining. Bitcoin isn't going to the moon and will die and give away to something better just as will happen to Android, but not before move much higher in value. The pattern of Android below is what crypto is going to do relative to precious metals:
Android has no scaling problem. I would rather say that in as much as this comparison is valid, you are looking at the evolution of alt coins, which are what android is like: many different flavours of the same idea. Exactly. And Bitcoin is the reserve currency of altcoins.
Roach read http://unenumerated.blogspot.ca/2016/02/two-malthusian-scares.html?m=1#linksWe are in the offloading gold stage by elite.. oil producers are buying by converting from oil.. malthusian event is over and commodities are set to collapse lagging behind gold. Now where oh where the heck is smart money going to start putting their money over the next decade in anticipation of industrial usage actually catching up and producing the next malthusian event? Hint its sure as hell not back into gold.. as that would not.be very smart Excellent post. Plays right into the theme of my Rise of Knowledge, Demise of Finance essay. |
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Mometaskers
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March 10, 2017, 01:37:35 PM |
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If it's a really complete mess (like, fallout everywhere)I doubt metals, heck even fiat, would still have value. You'd probably have a better chance of trading liquor for food. Plenty of depressed people out there who'd like some drink (not to mention they're antiseptic and with a wick, an instant Molotov).
It seem that that many agree that precious metals only have value during peace time. If you can flee to a country that was unaffected by the disaster, you'd probably be able to use you bitcoin more than your metals. Good luck lugging around you bullion as you flee an advancing army or zombie horde.
That being said, metals might have some use depending on how fast reconstruction is and how extensive the damage was. Metals are durable, no doubt about that. You wouldn't have to worry about your phone dying out or getting wrecked by EMP. There's probably a window of time that they can be used for currency.
If I have the money, I'd definitely still buy some gold or silver just for the heck of it. Not everything have to be money after all (I'm looking at you modern art!). Well, I actually have a pragmatic reason for wanting to get some silver. Colloidal silver. Sure there are risks but I'd definitely take that over dying of infection should antibiotics become unavailable.
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Challenger2015
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March 10, 2017, 02:10:59 PM |
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If bitcoin has released a cash of gold coins, it would be the best and most stable currency in the world. Coins of small denominations can be done interspersed with little bars of gold and very little silver.
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coolcoinz
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March 10, 2017, 02:29:07 PM |
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If it's a really complete mess (like, fallout everywhere)I doubt metals, heck even fiat, would still have value. You'd probably have a better chance of trading liquor for food. Plenty of depressed people out there who'd like some drink (not to mention they're antiseptic and with a wick, an instant Molotov).
It seem that that many agree that precious metals only have value during peace time. If you can flee to a country that was unaffected by the disaster, you'd probably be able to use you bitcoin more than your metals. Good luck lugging around you bullion as you flee an advancing army or zombie horde.
That being said, metals might have some use depending on how fast reconstruction is and how extensive the damage was. Metals are durable, no doubt about that. You wouldn't have to worry about your phone dying out or getting wrecked by EMP. There's probably a window of time that they can be used for currency.
If I have the money, I'd definitely still buy some gold or silver just for the heck of it. Not everything have to be money after all (I'm looking at you modern art!). Well, I actually have a pragmatic reason for wanting to get some silver. Colloidal silver. Sure there are risks but I'd definitely take that over dying of infection should antibiotics become unavailable.
You are right. In a doomsday scenario money lose value. There will always be people, who think of the future and who will trade goods for precious metals and jewelry, but most people will just use rare goods. Especially the ones that make you forget about the shit you are in, like drugs, cigarettes, alcohol. Weapons and medical supplies will also be on the top of the most expensive goods. Think about it, if your child gets sick you will give away all your precious metals for a supply of antibiotics. |
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Forester618
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March 10, 2017, 02:47:53 PM |
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If it's a really complete mess (like, fallout everywhere)I doubt metals, heck even fiat, would still have value. You'd probably have a better chance of trading liquor for food. Plenty of depressed people out there who'd like some drink (not to mention they're antiseptic and with a wick, an instant Molotov).
It seem that that many agree that precious metals only have value during peace time. If you can flee to a country that was unaffected by the disaster, you'd probably be able to use you bitcoin more than your metals. Good luck lugging around you bullion as you flee an advancing army or zombie horde.
That being said, metals might have some use depending on how fast reconstruction is and how extensive the damage was. Metals are durable, no doubt about that. You wouldn't have to worry about your phone dying out or getting wrecked by EMP. There's probably a window of time that they can be used for currency.
If I have the money, I'd definitely still buy some gold or silver just for the heck of it. Not everything have to be money after all (I'm looking at you modern art!). Well, I actually have a pragmatic reason for wanting to get some silver. Colloidal silver. Sure there are risks but I'd definitely take that over dying of infection should antibiotics become unavailable.
You are right. In a doomsday scenario money lose value. There will always be people, who think of the future and who will trade goods for precious metals and jewelry, but most people will just use rare goods. Especially the ones that make you forget about the shit you are in, like drugs, cigarettes, alcohol. Weapons and medical supplies will also be on the top of the most expensive goods. Think about it, if your child gets sick you will give away all your precious metals for a supply of antibiotics. Just do not forget that if you have precious metals then you always have the opportunity to purchase antibiotics, but if you have the money then during the war, other valuables and money antibiotics can not sell. |
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iamnotback (OP)
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March 12, 2017, 12:36:23 AM |
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OMG, silver is money again!   |
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Natalia077
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March 12, 2017, 09:33:08 AM |
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In the event of a serious catastrophe, which will cause economic collapse, precious metals will be an excellent commodity for exchange at the next stages of the economy after the collapse, when normal trade resumes. However, until this time only canned food and ammunition of common calibers will be a valuable object of barter. Their value, as always, will be determined by the free market. When the dollar finally falls, the old dollars are likely to be declared worthless and there will be a new currency, most likely tied to gold. I advise you not to buy gold, but silver coins. Gold is too compact a means of storing money, which is not very convenient for barter. To purchase 4 liters of kerosene, a box of ammunition or cans of canned beans, gold will not be the best option - how can you give change when buying, which is one-hundredth of a gold coin, with a chisel?
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markj113
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March 12, 2017, 11:54:14 AM |
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OMG, silver is money again! I dont see a bitcoin symbol up there. In a total collapse I agree gold/silver will be worth a lot less (but still more than fiat) People will excess supplies will trade for gold/silver. Gold and silver will re establish themselves during the rebuild phase where you can exchange them in to the replacement currency and you wont have lost everything you once had. |
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Xester
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March 12, 2017, 01:16:04 PM |
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OMG, silver is money again! I dont see a bitcoin symbol up there. In a total collapse I agree gold/silver will be worth a lot less (but still more than fiat) People will excess supplies will trade for gold/silver. Gold and silver will re establish themselves during the rebuild phase where you can exchange them in to the replacement currency and you wont have lost everything you once had. In a collapse scenario it is not digital currency nor money that will have a use or valuable. The thing that will be of value will be weapons, survival kit and food. The best thing to do if you have a money is to set up a fortress that can survive any condition and inside of it is a large garden and forest with waterfalls and etc. If you have that then you dont have to worry when a collapse scenario will happen. |
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darkangel11
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Don't let others control your BTC -> self custody
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March 12, 2017, 02:54:37 PM |
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OMG, silver is money again! I dont see a bitcoin symbol up there. In a total collapse I agree gold/silver will be worth a lot less (but still more than fiat) People will excess supplies will trade for gold/silver. Gold and silver will re establish themselves during the rebuild phase where you can exchange them in to the replacement currency and you wont have lost everything you once had. In a collapse scenario it is not digital currency nor money that will have a use or valuable. The thing that will be of value will be weapons, survival kit and food. The best thing to do if you have a money is to set up a fortress that can survive any condition and inside of it is a large garden and forest with waterfalls and etc. If you have that then you dont have to worry when a collapse scenario will happen. Weapons and ammo is actually what will be the most important. When you have weapons you can protect yourself and whatever you have. You can hunt for meat and barter with ammo. You can even wait for some idiot to try to rob you, thinking you're unarmed, shoot him and take his supplies.  Having a lot of precious metals will only make you a target. |
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markj113
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March 12, 2017, 03:09:29 PM |
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Weapons and ammo is actually what will be the most important. When you have weapons you can protect yourself and whatever you have. You can hunt for meat and barter with ammo. You can even wait for some idiot to try to rob you, thinking you're unarmed, shoot him and take his supplies. Having a lot of precious metals will only make you a target.Or hire you a small personal army |
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popcorn1
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March 12, 2017, 04:39:15 PM |
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OMG, silver is money again! I dont see a bitcoin symbol up there. In a total collapse I agree gold/silver will be worth a lot less (but still more than fiat) People will excess supplies will trade for gold/silver. Gold and silver will re establish themselves during the rebuild phase where you can exchange them in to the replacement currency and you wont have lost everything you once had. In a collapse scenario it is not digital currency nor money that will have a use or valuable. The thing that will be of value will be weapons, survival kit and food. The best thing to do if you have a money is to set up a fortress that can survive any condition and inside of it is a large garden and forest with waterfalls and etc. If you have that then you dont have to worry when a collapse scenario will happen. Weapons and ammo is actually what will be the most important. When you have weapons you can protect yourself and whatever you have. You can hunt for meat and barter with ammo. You can even wait for some idiot to try to rob you, thinking you're unarmed, shoot him and take his supplies. Having a lot of precious metals will only make you a target. First you need to group up no good on your own in a MAD MAX style planet.. I would stock up on candles throw away lighters powder milk .. Curry powders eat anything with bit of curry sprinkled on.. And you will trade 1 lighter 1 candle and a packet of curry for an ounce of gold .WELL FREEZE THEN  I be rich ..ARR WATCH CANDLE SALES WILL GO UP SOON ..AND CURRY POWDER . Shiny no good in war only food and warmth and we are from the uk loads of water and food from the land. If you live in desert lands you are FUCKED .. |
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signature200
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March 12, 2017, 04:50:48 PM |
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OMG, silver is money again! I dont see a bitcoin symbol up there. In a total collapse I agree gold/silver will be worth a lot less (but still more than fiat) People will excess supplies will trade for gold/silver. Gold and silver will re establish themselves during the rebuild phase where you can exchange them in to the replacement currency and you wont have lost everything you once had. In a collapse scenario it is not digital currency nor money that will have a use or valuable. The thing that will be of value will be weapons, survival kit and food. The best thing to do if you have a money is to set up a fortress that can survive any condition and inside of it is a large garden and forest with waterfalls and etc. If you have that then you dont have to worry when a collapse scenario will happen. Weapons and ammo is actually what will be the most important. When you have weapons you can protect yourself and whatever you have. You can hunt for meat and barter with ammo. You can even wait for some idiot to try to rob you, thinking you're unarmed, shoot him and take his supplies. Having a lot of precious metals will only make you a target. First you need to group up no good on your own in a MAD MAX style planet.. I would stock up on candles throw away lighters powder milk .. Curry powders eat anything with bit of curry sprinkled on.. And you will trade 1 lighter 1 candle and a packet of curry for an ounce of gold .WELL FREEZE THEN I be rich ..ARR WATCH CANDLE SALES WILL GO UP SOON ..AND CURRY POWDER . Shiny no good in war only food and warmth and we are from the uk loads of water and food from the land. If you live in desert lands you are FUCKED .. During any war changing values, but the candle you during any war buy for gold, and money can be useless. That is why people hold gold. A universal currency is not. |
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popcorn1
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March 12, 2017, 04:58:16 PM |
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OMG, silver is money again! I dont see a bitcoin symbol up there. In a total collapse I agree gold/silver will be worth a lot less (but still more than fiat) People will excess supplies will trade for gold/silver. Gold and silver will re establish themselves during the rebuild phase where you can exchange them in to the replacement currency and you wont have lost everything you once had. In a collapse scenario it is not digital currency nor money that will have a use or valuable. The thing that will be of value will be weapons, survival kit and food. The best thing to do if you have a money is to set up a fortress that can survive any condition and inside of it is a large garden and forest with waterfalls and etc. If you have that then you dont have to worry when a collapse scenario will happen. Weapons and ammo is actually what will be the most important. When you have weapons you can protect yourself and whatever you have. You can hunt for meat and barter with ammo. You can even wait for some idiot to try to rob you, thinking you're unarmed, shoot him and take his supplies. Having a lot of precious metals will only make you a target. First you need to group up no good on your own in a MAD MAX style planet.. I would stock up on candles throw away lighters powder milk .. Curry powders eat anything with bit of curry sprinkled on.. And you will trade 1 lighter 1 candle and a packet of curry for an ounce of gold .WELL FREEZE THEN I be rich ..ARR WATCH CANDLE SALES WILL GO UP SOON ..AND CURRY POWDER . Shiny no good in war only food and warmth and we are from the uk loads of water and food from the land. If you live in desert lands you are FUCKED .. During any war changing values, but the candle you during any war buy for gold, and money can be useless. That is why people hold gold. A universal currency is not. And that's why the poor hold candles and throw away lighters FOR GOLD . I spent 20 pounds on a massive box of candles you spent 1200 on gold.. But yes i do understand if your rich why you would hold gold.. Hay funny this for a thought.. The rich start the war to make money and the poor get rich by selling candles to the rich for gold .. |
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