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Author Topic: ☑ [ANN] ☰ [ ICO 06|04|2017 ] ☰ Humaniq — Discover the unbanked  (Read 272362 times)
Humaniq.co
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February 28, 2017, 11:42:31 AM
 #261

You are collecting bitcoin and Eth? What is the expected amount to get for one btc/eth? Will there be also a newsletter bounty campaign?

Yes, it's possible to send BTC and ETH.

Yes, newsletter bounty will be also.
You can participate.
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLScAJtWc42PqdPT-WfazmbSZ4BYdavwT7c58pH1SAVp079NxVg/viewform

What do you mean exactly?
What is the expected amount to get for one btc/eth?

The rate? 1000 HMQ will be 1 ETH.
And rate with BTC will be flexible and depend on market.

whats the bounty for newsletter,I see a form here but where can i get those bounty details its not on first page?
When newsletter campaign ll be closed you ll get payment. Bounty will be devided in equal parts for everyone who participated, so for now its not available to know which exact amount of tokens participants will get.
But you ll know everything in time.
The list will be opened and it will be easy to check.

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February 28, 2017, 11:43:14 AM
 #262

I closed u signature Dev , thanks ,:-)
Thank you for informing  Wink

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March 02, 2017, 10:46:20 AM
 #263

No plan for social media bounty like facebook and twitter?
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March 02, 2017, 11:21:24 AM
 #264

No plan for social media bounty like facebook and twitter?

I agree!
I think it is a good idea, as we all know social media is very helpful promoting everything let alone this project
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March 02, 2017, 03:33:11 PM
 #265

We are prepearing something for social media.

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March 02, 2017, 10:14:00 PM
 #266

Still waiting April 27 , bookmark this thread! Smiley
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March 04, 2017, 04:38:10 AM
 #267


During a short-notice December campaign, Humaniq raised over $110,000 in Bitcoin and Ether at a pre-ICO crowd-funding.
Blockchain banking app Humaniq has pushed back its ICO (initial coin offering) to a new date in April. Citing restrictions on bitcoin withdrawals from Chinese exchanges, Humaniq’s rescheduled the ICO to take place from April 6th to April 27th.
“I’ve been in close contact with our Chinese partners, and our internal information shows us that there is strong interest in this ICO among Chinese blockchain community members,” stated Humaniq founder Alex Fork. “Therefore, we’re going to show some solidarity and good faith to our friends in China, and push back the ICO so that they don’t miss out on early investor rewards.”
Fork further clarified: “We’re not pushing the ICO date back due to any organizational challenges. Our team is ready and moving forward as normal. The only reason we’re pushing the ICO back is to see if the Chinese government changes their stance, and for our potential investors from that country to shift their digital assets so that they’re in play to be investors when the ICO launches.”
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March 04, 2017, 07:32:11 AM
 #268

Regarding the upthread post wherein I alleged that Ethereum can't scale (and tangentially I also alleged smart contracts on a Turing-complete blockchain are another DAO attack waiting to happen), I was asked to provide some more details.

(Additionally I have recently explained that the 10s (coming to 100s?) of ICOs being launched every year now because of this Ethereum smart contract nonsense which enables rapid prototyping of 1000s of hair-brained ideas that will probably never achieve any serious adoption, because again Ethereum can't scale and another smart contract attack means all smart contracts become untrustable, means we likely have a coming ICO graveyard where our ecosystem has died. Thanks to greedy developers who want to cash out after making a fancy presentation and thus don't develop first and launch without an ICO and really don't have much incentive to develop anything at all after they raise $millions to party with, especially young guys who have a lot of energy for conferences, dinners, parties, fancy hotels, etc.. What happened to my generation of startups where we developed them from our bedroom while living at our parents' hose.

The low marginal cost of preparing the snazzy website, whitepaper and perhaps even a barely functional smart contract demo is minimal, perhaps < $5000 or even less. Yet these ICOs can easily raise 100s or 1000s of BTC. So the supply of ICOs rises to meet the demand from gullible speculators who all "want to buy earlier than each other" so they all end up buying ICOs, thus none of them buy earlier than each other and the ICO developers walk away with the Bitcoins and the speculators will be left penniless in the coming ICO oversupply graveyard because all the demand will have been transferred to ICO developers who don't buy in the aftermarket.)



NEW PROBLEM!

There is also an inconsistency in the HumanIQ design as expressed on pages 6 and 19-22 in the white paper and the wallet features section of the website.

Firstly, you claim that users will only need to use their face and voice and do not need to deal with passwords. But then you tie the user to one device and also to signing keys stored on their mobile device. So if that mobile device is lost, stolen, or accessed even momentarily by a hacker (even if they just extract the keys and device ID perhaps even remotely and don't perform the attack over the user's mobile device), then the attacker only needs to fool the face and video identification system in order to steal the user's funds. They could for example exchange them for Bitcoin and be gone.

Face and video identification systems are theoretically reasonably easy to fool with synthetic methods, and I expect that to be true even against automated challenge-response:

https://engineering.cmu.edu/media/feature/2016/12_01_facial_recognition_eyeglasses.html
http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.461.7360&rep=rep1&type=pdf#page=6 (see Figure 9)

Secondly, if user loses his device he has lost his keys. So the only way those keys could be recovered (again meeting your requirement that users don't have to ever mess with keys or store them in a paper wallet) is if some centralized service is storing the keys and can perform a recovery process that identifies the user. But again the attacker can game this recovery process, perhaps unless it is administered by a real human interrogator. And the centralized service becomes a huge attack surface for a hacker to steal all the users' keys (Bitcoin exchange failures show it is a serious risk). And of course as you admit on page 20 of your whitepaper, then it means the biometric identification is not decentralized on the blockchain, but a centralized service. Centralized blockchain concepts will never scale out. The world won't trust a system that depends on one centralized service. Sorry.

HumanIQ is ostensibly obviously lacking the skills of a qualified, experienced CTO on its team. Afaics, the HumanIQ design is irreparably/insolubly flawed and has apparently not been properly vetted by an appropriately skilled technical person.

Note it is possible to utilize face and voice biometrics stored on a blockchain to prove that the users are all unique within the false positive tolerance of multimodal biometric identification, e.g. perhaps to within a few percent false positive rate for synthetic attacks (at current state-of-the-art) and even better if supplemented with real human interrogation (which would be retroactively objectively verifiable from the blockchain data in the future as the state-of-the-art advances). But for automated logins and identification of users ongoing usage of the system, the false positive rate is currently too high because it would be the theft rate. I suppose you were looking at service providers such as the following and just assumed the EER rates were acceptable without reading the research:

https://www.onefacein.com/faq.html
http://www.voicetrust.com/solutions/voice-login/
https://playground.bioid.com/BioIDWebService/LiveDetection
https://www.keylemon.com/oasis
https://www.quora.com/What-are-the-best-face-detection-APIs/answer/Ben-Virdee-Chapman

So I also do not understand why the white paper implies we can't store a (hash of a) video on a blockchain. Surely we can.

Please do point out any misunderstanding or mistake I have made in my analysis.



Note that although via deep learning of deep neural nets the state-of-the-art research on face recognition accuracy has reached as high as 99% (and do look at how close to indistinguishable the errors were even to a human observer such as yourself) and state-of-the-art research on voice identification has reached as high as ~1% EER (i.e. roughly 1% false positive with a 1% false negative if compared to a 2.33% EER on page 5), these performance figures do not include data sets where the attacker is trying to game the system. So refer to the links I provided above on synthetic attacks to get a better idea of the risk of theft with multimodal biometric face and voice identification. The state-of-the-art is advancing rapidly because a 2014 paper only cited a 7% EER, but the datasets and training criteria are not probably not comparable.

1% or even 0.1% rates of theft would still be unacceptable.


Very nice analysis. Adoption will be a tough challenge for this if it makes through. I'd like to see the developer's response / comment on this analysis.
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March 06, 2017, 06:15:16 PM
 #269

Very nice analysis. Adoption will be a tough challenge for this if it makes through. I'd like to see the developer's response / comment on this analysis.

Yeah, analysis is good.
We will response a bit later.

For now I can only share our news from last week from our blog.
Richard Kastelein visited Sankalp African Summit in Nairobi, Kenya.
You can read some details about this event more in our blog:
https://blog.humaniq.co/humaniq-weekly-review-mar-3rd-8237631f1a2a#.8or3thi6k

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March 07, 2017, 09:23:54 AM
 #270

What is the business model? What will a token holder get in the future?

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March 07, 2017, 02:19:37 PM
 #271

What is the business model? What will a token holder get in the future?
Tokens will be tradable as other assets. Thus, it's value will increase with time, so it's considered as investment.
And what do you mean exactly "business model"?
How Humaniq can be used?
You can read for example this
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/14533127/crypt/humaniq_cases.pdf

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March 07, 2017, 11:51:07 PM
Last edit: March 08, 2017, 03:27:22 AM by sotisoti
 #272

What is the business model? What will a token holder get in the future?
Tokens will be tradable as other assets. Thus, it's value will increase with time, so it's considered as investment.
And what do you mean exactly "business model"?
How Humaniq can be used?
You can read for example this
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/14533127/crypt/humaniq_cases.pdf
Business model as in, what are the revenue sources of Humaniq? How does the project or the team make money to perceptually sustain itself? How can investors be financially rewarded by holding the tokens, besides trading them? For instance:

* REP token holders are entitled to a portion of Augur's market fee by reporting the correct outcome
* DigixDAO owners are rewarded with transaction fees of DGX tokens
* 1ST token holders earn fees by serving 'witness nodes'


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March 08, 2017, 12:00:58 AM
 #273

What is the business model? What will a token holder get in the future?

this is mobile app to make it easy to use unbanked populations
more info here https://humaniq.co/#wallet
https://blog.humaniq.co/

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March 08, 2017, 12:34:35 AM
 #274


Regarding the upthread post wherein I alleged that Ethereum can't scale (and tangentially I also alleged smart contracts on a Turing-complete blockchain are another DAO attack waiting to happen), I was asked to provide some more details.

(Additionally I have recently explained that the 10s (coming to 100s?) of ICOs being launched every year now because of this Ethereum smart contract nonsense which enables rapid prototyping of 1000s of hair-brained ideas that will probably never achieve any serious adoption, because again Ethereum can't scale and another smart contract attack means all smart contracts become untrustable, means we likely have a coming ICO graveyard where our ecosystem has died. Thanks to greedy developers who want to cash out after making a fancy presentation and thus don't develop first and launch without an ICO and really don't have much incentive to develop anything at all after they raise $millions to party with, especially young guys who have a lot of energy for conferences, dinners, parties, fancy hotels, etc.. What happened to my generation of startups where we developed them from our bedroom while living at our parents' hose.

The low marginal cost of preparing the snazzy website, whitepaper and perhaps even a barely functional smart contract demo is minimal, perhaps < $5000 or even less. Yet these ICOs can easily raise 100s or 1000s of BTC. So the supply of ICOs rises to meet the demand from gullible speculators who all "want to buy earlier than each other" so they all end up buying ICOs, thus none of them buy earlier than each other and the ICO developers walk away with the Bitcoins and the speculators will be left penniless in the coming ICO oversupply graveyard because all the demand will have been transferred to ICO developers who don't buy in the aftermarket.)



NEW PROBLEM!

There is also an inconsistency in the HumanIQ design as expressed on pages 6 and 19-22 in the white paper and the wallet features section of the website.

Firstly, you claim that users will only need to use their face and voice and do not need to deal with passwords. But then you tie the user to one device and also to signing keys stored on their mobile device. So if that mobile device is lost, stolen, or accessed even momentarily by a hacker (even if they just extract the keys and device ID perhaps even remotely and don't perform the attack over the user's mobile device), then the attacker only needs to fool the face and video identification system in order to steal the user's funds. They could for example exchange them for Bitcoin and be gone.

Face and video identification systems are theoretically reasonably easy to fool with synthetic methods, and I expect that to be true even against automated challenge-response:

https://engineering.cmu.edu/media/feature/2016/12_01_facial_recognition_eyeglasses.html
http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.461.7360&rep=rep1&type=pdf#page=6 (see Figure 9)

Secondly, if user loses his device he has lost his keys. So the only way those keys could be recovered (again meeting your requirement that users don't have to ever mess with keys or store them in a paper wallet) is if some centralized service is storing the keys and can perform a recovery process that identifies the user. But again the attacker can game this recovery process, perhaps unless it is administered by a real human interrogator. And the centralized service becomes a huge attack surface for a hacker to steal all the users' keys (Bitcoin exchange failures show it is a serious risk). And of course as you admit on page 20 of your whitepaper, then it means the biometric identification is not decentralized on the blockchain, but a centralized service. Centralized blockchain concepts will never scale out. The world won't trust a system that depends on one centralized service. Sorry.

HumanIQ is ostensibly obviously lacking the skills of a qualified, experienced CTO on its team. Afaics, the HumanIQ design is irreparably/insolubly flawed and has apparently not been properly vetted by an appropriately skilled technical person.

Note it is possible to utilize face and voice biometrics stored on a blockchain to prove that the users are all unique within the false positive tolerance of multimodal biometric identification, e.g. perhaps to within a few percent false positive rate for synthetic attacks (at current state-of-the-art) and even better if supplemented with real human interrogation (which would be retroactively objectively verifiable from the blockchain data in the future as the state-of-the-art advances). But for automated logins and identification of users ongoing usage of the system, the false positive rate is currently too high because it would be the theft rate. I suppose you were looking at service providers such as the following and just assumed the EER rates were acceptable without reading the research:

https://www.onefacein.com/faq.html
http://www.voicetrust.com/solutions/voice-login/
https://playground.bioid.com/BioIDWebService/LiveDetection
https://www.keylemon.com/oasis
https://www.quora.com/What-are-the-best-face-detection-APIs/answer/Ben-Virdee-Chapman

So I also do not understand why the white paper implies we can't store a (hash of a) video on a blockchain. Surely we can.

Please do point out any misunderstanding or mistake I have made in my analysis.



Note that although via deep learning of deep neural nets the state-of-the-art research on face recognition accuracy has reached as high as 99% (and do look at how close to indistinguishable the errors were even to a human observer such as yourself) and state-of-the-art research on voice identification has reached as high as ~1% EER (i.e. roughly 1% false positive with a 1% false negative if compared to a 2.33% EER on page 5), these performance figures do not include data sets where the attacker is trying to game the system. So refer to the links I provided above on synthetic attacks to get a better idea of the risk of theft with multimodal biometric face and voice identification. The state-of-the-art is advancing rapidly because a 2014 paper only cited a 7% EER, but the datasets and training criteria are not probably not comparable.

1% or even 0.1% rates of theft would still be unacceptable.


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

This essentially says that Humaniq is full of the proverbial.

Humaniq should really be addressing all these points before trying to raise more funds.

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March 08, 2017, 06:10:59 PM
 #275


Regarding the upthread post wherein I alleged that Ethereum can't scale (and tangentially I also alleged smart contracts on a Turing-complete.


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

This essentially says that Humaniq is full of the proverbial.

Humaniq should really be addressing all these points before trying to raise more funds.

Actually it's just poison blablabla.
I am sure they have team which can solve all questions.
For example I am more interested in business model and how they are going to earn by this app.
But these words about not professional design etc... I even don't want to read this everythng))
They wrote somewhere that they ll show something like beta-version, so I am looking forward.


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..............................Share Wi-Fi-earn cryptocurrency!..............................
 



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  ●  Whitepaper
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March 08, 2017, 10:09:55 PM
 #276

Alex Fork is well known person in crypto.
I believe his goal is to make a good project for the community.
Design and other small things are not important at this stage.
I know Alex personally, he is working 18h a day on this project!
The result will come.
Good luck Alex and the team
I will participate for 100%

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March 09, 2017, 07:53:52 PM
 #277

Alex Fork is well known person in crypto.
I believe his goal is to make a good project for the community.
Design and other small things are not important at this stage.
I know Alex personally, he is working 18h a day on this project!
The result will come.
Good luck Alex and the team
I will participate for 100%

Thank you for your support.

blocks.explorer
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March 09, 2017, 08:39:02 PM
 #278

Dev team - you are targetting the 2.5 billion unbanked people, how much of % do you think you can realistically attract from this? A lot of these unbanked are either far away from major cities or civilization or below poverty line? How do you think they can get their hanks on a mobile phone to use the app, let alone get Humaniq tokens from exchanges - which you need to fund, either by BTC or fiat, and to get BTC, either you mine it or buy usually with a bank account. It's very rare to get BTC buying it from someone using cash, especially in remote places. Grin
fennyllywof-7700
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March 09, 2017, 08:45:55 PM
 #279

"iamnotback" pointed out that there is a major design flaw in the concept.

So you guys are just going to ignore this and potentially expose millions of your customers to the situation of losing their funds.

It's becoming very obvious that you are only concerned with raising the cash for yourself and don't care about the unbanked because otherwise, you

would have already come up with an answer to his legitimate concerns.
bezzler
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March 09, 2017, 09:23:27 PM
 #280

cannot waiting Humaniq Crowdsale to be started
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