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mikegogulski
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November 29, 2010, 04:04:05 PM |
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I like that idea of Yours, however what i don't like about it is the amount of time it needs to become reality.
However i guess we don't have any choice, as the "old economy" will never adapt - I concede with you there. Bankers & other people who gain from the current system will never resign of their false fraudulent dream world, unless it totally collapses itself first.
I don't like that aspect either. I want freedom by next Tuesday, damnit! This is an urgent problem! [/quote] BTW, Shadow, when they shut down the internet, I know how to build a new one. Want to help?  No need for that, they cannot really "shut down the internet". They would have to take all the physical equipment away from people - Linux servers, routers, switches, wires, cables etc. And that is not possible at all without some major disaster (nuclear war or something). They cannot take our equipment from us, and with the equipment geeks will quickly build a new internet from the scratch. It's just a matter of little rewiring & changing configuration. Not so difficult as one would think. It's a veeerry long shot, but US fiat could dictate all non-governmental telecom landings in the US and its territories shut down, and enforce it. A hundred soldiers at each of the two or three dozen major US traffic-switching nodes and the US internet implodes. A tactical nuke on MAE-West? YES WE CAN! On top of that, the US military has the resources and intelligence necessary to sever the undersea fiber that carries almost all transcontinental internet traffic, plus the assets in place to accomplish immense comms disruption in all of the 100+ countries in which it maintains military bases. Mind you, this is a doomsday scenario, and not likely. Destroying the internet would be suicide for the US government, as doing so would destroy Wall Street along with the remnant shreds of its reputation. Anyway, if it ever comes to it, you and I will build a new internet. End-to-end crypto will be mandatory everywhere. All links, all nodes, all sessions. And DNS will be distributed. |
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bitcoinex
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November 29, 2010, 04:19:18 PM
Last edit: November 29, 2010, 04:30:12 PM by bitcoinex |
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Humane russian offer to torture a few people. Angry american are ready to unleash a nuclear war. Well, who is the devil? |
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wumpus
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November 29, 2010, 04:23:19 PM |
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But damaging torture can not be withstand. I'm curious why they is still free and may be freely interviewed.
That's probably because USA is not Soviet Russia (yet). They started censorship, but there is still long way from that to becoming a true totalitarian country like Russia. Come on, kill a few people to save tens or hundreds? Trifling matter, since all countries do. Killing them will make martyrs of them... And will make the thing much and much worse than it is now. Currently, wikileaks gets a lot of flak from people that don't completely agree with what they are doing. As long as the US stays reasonable, it is fairly easy to ignore the whole thing. No matter what information wikileaks reveals, people will forget about it. But if it happens that a Wikileaks member disappears or is killed, there will be books, movies, conspiracy stories, political movements etc... the whole thing will be very hard to contain, and the last thing the USA wants is to tilt the global opinion even more against them. |
Bitcoin Core developer [PGP] Warning: For most, coin loss is a larger risk than coin theft. A disk can die any time. Regularly back up your wallet through File → Backup Wallet to an external storage or the (encrypted!) cloud. Use a separate offline wallet for storing larger amounts. |
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bitcoinex
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November 29, 2010, 04:28:57 PM |
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No, I brought the murder as an example. In this case, nobody should be killed.
They need just threat of torture. Then the confiscation of computers, information, check sources, searches and arrests. And it's over.
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wumpus
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November 29, 2010, 04:43:50 PM |
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They need just threat of torture. Then the confiscation of computers, information, check sources, searches and arrests. And it's over.
Yes but if they are tortured and they live to tell about it, it will have the same effect. Especially if they are abducted from some foreign European country. It's not like wikileaks is based in the US, it's an international organization with members everywhere. Also, wikileaks is a non-violent organisation, so using violence against them will be quite shocking (at least to European people), even more shocking than the leaks. It would be a media circus! |
Bitcoin Core developer [PGP] Warning: For most, coin loss is a larger risk than coin theft. A disk can die any time. Regularly back up your wallet through File → Backup Wallet to an external storage or the (encrypted!) cloud. Use a separate offline wallet for storing larger amounts. |
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kiba
Legendary
 Offline
Activity: 980
Merit: 1014
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November 29, 2010, 04:49:26 PM |
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Maybe somebody should sell robots that record activities of government agents for bitcoins.
We could have...
"YOUR LITTLE BROTHERS ARE WATCHING YOU!"
Plus, camera tend to prevent abuse of authority by policemen.
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mikegogulski
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November 29, 2010, 05:06:42 PM |
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Maybe somebody should sell robots that record activities of government agents for bitcoins.
[...]
Plus, camera tend to prevent abuse of authority by policemen.
I've long believed that if we are to have government officials, they should be tailed 24/7 by public sensor robots. Or ridiculously hot young Asian boys. Either one. |
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ShadowOfHarbringer
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Bringing Legendary Har® to you since 1952
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November 29, 2010, 05:34:56 PM |
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File without the key is garbage. State can find out who have the key and find out what conditions it will be published.
Surely a lot of people have the key. Good luck finding them on TOR or freenet. (FYI: TOR is completely untrackable when connecting from one TOR node, to another TOR node, contrary to connecting to/from "normal internet" from/to TOR). |
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ShadowOfHarbringer
Legendary
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Activity: 1470
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Bringing Legendary Har® to you since 1952
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November 29, 2010, 05:42:09 PM |
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No, I brought the murder as an example. In this case, nobody should be killed.
They need just threat of torture. Then the confiscation of computers, information, check sources, searches and arrests. And it's over.
As witchspace already pointed out, things that are easy in Soviet Russia are not necessarily so easy in "normal" semi-democratic world. There are many problems: 1. The matryr thing - as explained by witchspace 2. Streissand Effect (similiar to creating martyrs). The more You want to censor something , the more people will download it. 3. The wikileaks insurance (random people around the world may have the key and they will release it when time comes 4. Bad PR for USA if they start shooting people from wikileaks. I mean what would be the difference between them and Russia/China if they do this ? None. This could further break diplomatic relations with (semi)democratic countries. |
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mikegogulski
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November 29, 2010, 07:04:38 PM |
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... Soviet Russia ...
In Soviet Russia, coin bit you! (sorry) |
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Anonymous
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November 29, 2010, 09:52:21 PM |
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Maybe somebody should sell robots that record activities of government agents for bitcoins.
[...]
Plus, camera tend to prevent abuse of authority by policemen.
I've long believed that if we are to have government officials, they should be tailed 24/7 by public sensor robots. Or ridiculously hot young Asian boys. Either one. haha that is a great idea. These people think they can hide amongst the beauracracy and claim "im just doing my job". Ive got news for them. |
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Anonymous
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November 29, 2010, 10:36:07 PM
Last edit: November 29, 2010, 10:51:39 PM by noagendamarket |
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They forget that they can be tortured too.  |
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Bruce Wagner
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November 29, 2010, 11:54:07 PM |
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Anyone know where to send a message to them?
Sorry. Did we ever find any contact information for Wikileaks, other than their postal mailbox....? I've added Wikileaks to our "target list" on BitcoinPromote.com |
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bober182
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November 30, 2010, 02:27:00 AM |
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I have some of the staff on IRC.
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kiba
Legendary
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Activity: 980
Merit: 1014
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November 30, 2010, 02:31:27 AM |
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I have some of the staff on IRC.
Where? Freenode? |
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jgarzik
Legendary
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Activity: 1596
Merit: 1091
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November 30, 2010, 02:40:16 AM |
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This does not seem like the best time to be creating some sort of wikileaks-bitcoin connection.
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Jeff Garzik, Bloq CEO, former bitcoin core dev team; opinions are my own.
Visit bloq.com / metronome.io
Donations / tip jar: 1BrufViLKnSWtuWGkryPsKsxonV2NQ7Tcj
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bober182
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November 30, 2010, 02:50:50 AM |
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They run there own anonymous IRC server.
chat.wikileaks.org port 9999 i think or the secure one.
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bitcoinex
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November 30, 2010, 04:52:09 AM
Last edit: November 30, 2010, 05:53:35 AM by bitcoinex |
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No, I brought the murder as an example. In this case, nobody should be killed.
They need just threat of torture. Then the confiscation of computers, information, check sources, searches and arrests. And it's over.
As witchspace already pointed out, things that are easy in Soviet Russia are not necessarily so easy in "normal" semi-democratic world. There are many problems: 1. The matryr thing - as explained by witchspace 2. Streissand Effect (similiar to creating martyrs). The more You want to censor something , the more people will download it. 3. The wikileaks insurance (random people around the world may have the key and they will release it when time comes 4. Bad PR for USA if they start shooting people from wikileaks. I mean what would be the difference between them and Russia/China if they do this ? None. This could further break diplomatic relations with (semi)democratic countries. (grep torture) You joined to protest on the streets or spent at home with your computer? |
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farmer_boy
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Activity: 56
Merit: 0
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November 30, 2010, 05:28:06 AM |
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You joined to protest on streets or spent at home with your computer?
Can you explain the purpose of going into the streets? A minority will only go into the streets. Even if a majority would go into the streets (which has never happened before, AFAIK), the government will simply state that it was a minority. Before the government had good riot control weapons demonstrations had the option of escalating and actually overthrowing the government in the worst case. That simply is not the case anymore. People have no weapons and are literally without power. The same money they pay in taxes will get them killed if they oppose the government too much. |
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