[Group Buy#1] Avalon ASICs CHIPS! Using JohnK as escrow! FINISHED!

[ecliptic]

I've gone through and added up all the swaps, and calculated a refund amount based on the swaps, located in Column N of the "Original Data" sheet.  This refund amount was calculated leaving John K's fee intact.  Any other payment for facilitating (Me, Noitev, redphlegm) has NOT been included in that total.  RagingAzn628's fee is NOT included in that total.

Please review and let me know if you find any mistakes.

Keep in mind that I did not do any calculations with regards to secondary purchases.  That is, if you sold your chips, that sale is private;  acquiring chips through bartering after the group buy is done should be viewed as a private transaction.  For instance, if you traded someone your car for their stake on chips, the group buy should only refund you what the chips cost to the original buyer and not the value of your car.  

Which spreadsheet are you referring to now?  Just to be clear on everything.

[AMuppInTime]

I haven't read this thread in a while, and am in for 70 chips or so... Is the refund being processed to the originating address? Am I supposed to contact someone? Any kind soul up to date care to post an update? (Really not interested in reading 20 pages of he/she/who/what)

[nebiz]

hey guys,

Let's make one thing clear... I do NOT have the BTC from this group buy. I never did. JohnK was the escrow and he has everything. He will be around soon, I don't know where he went. I do not have the chips from this group buy either .... that's why we are being refunded.

except for the sample chips... Can you pay for john k's escrow fee/ the people who took over since you kinda failed as a group buy organizer...

That's not how it works, Noitev. You are paying JohnK's escrow fee, because you are now getting the full force of his protection.

Im aware and appreciate john ks existence, Im just saying raging more or less blatantly tried to steal our chips (he stole 20 already) and since we did everything to prevent it, he wants his entire share back as a fallback. Isn't it suspicious that he's never on, except when money is at stake for him? we paid for john k. to prevent exactly what he did, and now that we have some of his funds, I think it's only fair we subtract johns fee from raging's investment.

Also, as much as I love John k, we resorted to having to use group buy members to facilitate the transaction/cancellation. I understand both sides of the argument, namely that raging is saying "The price is 1.5% higher so that if I scam you, you get your money back." but when he actually does, isn't it fair that he pay for the 1.5%? I understand it could have very well have been a poor set of circumstances and that he might not have tried to scam us, but my opinion is totally opposed to that when he magically becomes healthy enough to post on the forums, something he was incapable of doing while he had control of over 50,000 dollars in hardware coming to him and had endless queries asking chip statuses. The only time he ever posted was when he was in serious risk of losing his chips

-just moved in to my house, that's why I was gone, relax
-death in the family, sorry Im still ok to do this
-therapist told me to separate myself from the internet, everything is still fine
-Oh there's a refund? ok, give me all my money back then...

Obviously he doesn't deserve the 1% so he's not going to argue for that, but he'll be damned if he comes out of this with less than what he put in after all the work he's gone through failing to scam us. I was ok with all of this so far, since I talked to prodigits a few times on skype. That was until raging said he gave the sample chips that were decidedly not his to prodigits7, a personal friend of his he wants to repay for doing damage control on his kncminer groupbuy. I'd value the chips at over 4 btc total since they were shipped months ago. So if raging feels like he can pay prodigits, why not pay the people doing damage control here? I honestly wouldn't really care if raging would just pay for the 1.5% escrow fee, but he's gonna try to profit on this failed groupbuy by double dipping in the chips and the full amount of the refund? screw that.

I think fewer people might share your viewpoint than you think.  Yeah, shit sometimes doesn't go right, but I am quite content to be recovering 98.5% of my investment. Sometimes someone gets more than they deserve. Does that make them a good/bad/mean person? Not necessarily. Does it make it worth your time to chase them down?

[bigbeninlondon]

I've gone through and added up all the swaps, and calculated a refund amount based on the swaps, located in Column N of the "Original Data" sheet.  This refund amount was calculated leaving John K's fee intact.  Any other payment for facilitating (Me, Noitev, redphlegm) has NOT been included in that total.  RagingAzn628's fee is NOT included in that total.

Please review and let me know if you find any mistakes.

Keep in mind that I did not do any calculations with regards to secondary purchases.  That is, if you sold your chips, that sale is private;  acquiring chips through bartering after the group buy is done should be viewed as a private transaction.  For instance, if you traded someone your car for their stake on chips, the group buy should only refund you what the chips cost to the original buyer and not the value of your car.  

Which spreadsheet are you referring to now?  Just to be clear on everything.

The same one I put out a while ago.  I just added some columns.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ApT7WUJuJCwMdEhFX2UxbF9Nd0xydmhnUUJiZVBLVlE#gid=0

[ragmondo]

Thanks to the chaps sorting this out. I'm more than happy to get 97% back of the original amount I put into this. Like everybody else, I would have preferred the chips delivered on time (otherwise we wouldn't have paid up in the first place - right?) but this far exceeds my return on my previous mining attempt from BFL.... Great work - thanks chaps. And thank god for escrow.

[Noitev]

I'll take what I can get, just stating my opinion

[ryepdx]

Please contact me via PM or email to get my refund address (or confirm ownership of my originating address) when the time comes to start sending us back our BTC. I think I might have sent my payment from an old wallet...

[redphlegm]

Please contact me via PM or email to get my refund address (or confirm ownership of my originating address) when the time comes to start sending us back our BTC. I think I might have sent my payment from an old wallet...

Did you fill out my form? I believe bigbeninlondon is using this to build his refund tracker spreadsheet. I have also PM'd John with the applicable spreadsheets and form results to help streamline this whole process.

Here is the form for refund / chip transfer tracking:
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1Db9Xx8NYvjnq-Pm7MmuVgWauTP1qSaFRyemI_sa5DkA/viewform

[ryepdx]

Thanks for the link. Sorry I didn't dig deeper for that. I've been away from this thread (and pretty much all the threads, save the Stumptown one) for a while. Got tired of all the back and forth filling up my inbox.

Thanks for putting that together, redphlegm. Much appreciated.

[wrenchmonkey]

hey guys,

Let's make one thing clear... I do NOT have the BTC from this group buy. I never did. JohnK was the escrow and he has everything. He will be around soon, I don't know where he went. I do not have the chips from this group buy either .... that's why we are being refunded.

except for the sample chips... Can you pay for john k's escrow fee/ the people who took over since you kinda failed as a group buy organizer...

That's not how it works, Noitev. You are paying JohnK's escrow fee, because you are now getting the full force of his protection.

Im aware and appreciate john ks existence, Im just saying raging more or less blatantly tried to steal our chips (he stole 20 already) and since we did everything to prevent it, he wants his entire share back as a fallback. Isn't it suspicious that he's never on, except when money is at stake for him? we paid for john k. to prevent exactly what he did, and now that we have some of his funds, I think it's only fair we subtract johns fee from raging's investment.

Also, as much as I love John k, we resorted to having to use group buy members to facilitate the transaction/cancellation. I understand both sides of the argument, namely that raging is saying "The price is 1.5% higher so that if I scam you, you get your money back." but when he actually does, isn't it fair that he pay for the 1.5%? I understand it could have very well have been a poor set of circumstances and that he might not have tried to scam us, but my opinion is totally opposed to that when he magically becomes healthy enough to post on the forums, something he was incapable of doing while he had control of over 50,000 dollars in hardware coming to him and had endless queries asking chip statuses. The only time he ever posted was when he was in serious risk of losing his chips

-just moved in to my house, that's why I was gone, relax
-death in the family, sorry Im still ok to do this
-therapist told me to separate myself from the internet, everything is still fine
-Oh there's a refund? ok, give me all my money back then...

Obviously he doesn't deserve the 1% so he's not going to argue for that, but he'll be damned if he comes out of this with less than what he put in after all the work he's gone through failing to scam us. I was ok with all of this so far, since I talked to prodigits a few times on skype. That was until raging said he gave the sample chips that were decidedly not his to prodigits7, a personal friend of his he wants to repay for doing damage control on his kncminer groupbuy. I'd value the chips at over 4 btc total since they were shipped months ago. So if raging feels like he can pay prodigits, why not pay the people doing damage control here? I honestly wouldn't really care if raging would just pay for the 1.5% escrow fee, but he's gonna try to profit on this failed groupbuy by double dipping in the chips and the full amount of the refund? screw that.

For what it's worth, I totally agree. This guy is a dirtbag. He disappeared when the thought he had our hardware, but the second he loses control, he gets 'cured' and pops back up wanting his money back. What. The. Fuck?

Regardless of what happens, JohnK has earned his 1.5%, and he deserves to keep it. However, I'm inclined to agree that Ragin needs to compensate us for the sample chips he stole. Those chips were not his, and he flat-out REFUSED to say where those chips were, until he's in a position of trying to get HIS money back. How many times was he asked where the chips were prior to this, and he just ignored it?

I would be among the 'ayes' if a vote were cast as to whether John's fees should come out of Ragin's refund, but that's probably a logistical nightmare for Johnk. But by all means, Ragin had better pay for the fucking chips he stole.

Ragin, in case you haven't seen my previous posts, I'm going to tell you here. You are a coward, and a piece of shit.

[bigbeninlondon]

I would be among the 'ayes' if a vote were cast as to whether John's fees should come out of Ragin's refund, but that's probably a logistical nightmare for Johnk.

As far as calculations go, this would be simple.  We'd just subtract the entire 11 some odd btc from Raging's spreadsheet line and re-calculate everyone's refund without the % from John K. 

I personally think this is wrong; I don't think it's up to us to "punish".  As far as the sample chips, I remember voicing my concern about Raging deciding what to do with chips that statistically didn't belong to him, but no one except me raised any objections.  I think Raging sent 8 to BKKCoins (or posted that he did), but Raging was indeed open about how he was trying to get an assembly line up and running, and was going to take 22 chips for himself, and everyone seemed cool with it at the time.

I'm not saying Raging was innocent in all this, but the sample chips were handled openly, and everyone was given an opportunity to speak up if they thought it was unfair.  Here's the conversation:

...
I will send pledged chips to BKK but I will need the rest for my development over here as well.
...

Ahh!  Giant Pics!  Tiny screen!

Seriously though; all sample chips should be allocated based on percentage of the buy holding, right?  What about these other 22 chips?  No one weigh in?  To me it seems from the spreadsheet that you personally are entitled to .686 or so chips.  

Just want to make sure everything is on the up and up.

Yes but you forget I have my own project and it is a lot of work doing this group buy as well. 8 so far and I will keep the rest for development.  I am only getting 1% (7.8BTC) for doing this group buy. If you guys don't think this is fair then please let me know.

ALSO!

Please fill out this new form:

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1eM7xUr058AAgDkPSlAbAVYKTihKE0v2JXD8Yac8T200/viewform

The fee was pre-agreed upon, but I don't think any sample chips were allocated to you in the original thread.  With my small stake it's of little consequence to me, but I feel that that is indeed not what was bargained for.  If no one else cares, it's cool with me, but I think that should definitely be a community consensus, and not an assumption.

Yeah no one mentioned sample chips until recently, I'm with you on that, community consensus if I'm happy then everyone is happy.

Me happy = much faster shipping

I was the only one who said ANYTHING about it except Bicknellski, who voted 8 chips go to BKKCoins (which is mentioned in the above quote).

I hate how Raging handled this, but as far as I'm concerned he told us he wanted all 22 dev chips to start his assembly biz and no one objected, so everything was public and we all knew what he was planning to do with them.

[Noitev]

I would be among the 'ayes' if a vote were cast as to whether John's fees should come out of Ragin's refund, but that's probably a logistical nightmare for Johnk.

As far as calculations go, this would be simple.  We'd just subtract the entire 11 some odd btc from Raging's spreadsheet line and re-calculate everyone's refund without the % from John K.  

I personally think this is wrong; I don't think it's up to us to "punish".  As far as the sample chips, I remember voicing my concern about Raging deciding what to do with chips that statistically didn't belong to him, but no one except me raised any objections.  I think Raging sent 8 to BKKCoins (or posted that he did), but Raging was indeed open about how he was trying to get an assembly line up and running, and was going to take 22 chips for himself, and everyone seemed cool with it at the time.

I'm not saying Raging was innocent in all this, but the sample chips were handled openly, and everyone was given an opportunity to speak up if they thought it was unfair.  Here's the conversation:

...
I will send pledged chips to BKK but I will need the rest for my development over here as well.
...

Ahh!  Giant Pics!  Tiny screen!

Seriously though; all sample chips should be allocated based on percentage of the buy holding, right?  What about these other 22 chips?  No one weigh in?  To me it seems from the spreadsheet that you personally are entitled to .686 or so chips.  

Just want to make sure everything is on the up and up.

Yes but you forget I have my own project and it is a lot of work doing this group buy as well. 8 so far and I will keep the rest for development.  I am only getting 1% (7.8BTC) for doing this group buy. If you guys don't think this is fair then please let me know.

ALSO!

Please fill out this new form:

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1eM7xUr058AAgDkPSlAbAVYKTihKE0v2JXD8Yac8T200/viewform

The fee was pre-agreed upon, but I don't think any sample chips were allocated to you in the original thread.  With my small stake it's of little consequence to me, but I feel that that is indeed not what was bargained for.  If no one else cares, it's cool with me, but I think that should definitely be a community consensus, and not an assumption.

Yeah no one mentioned sample chips until recently, I'm with you on that, community consensus if I'm happy then everyone is happy.

Me happy = much faster shipping

I was the only one who said ANYTHING about it except Bicknellski, who voted 8 chips go to BKKCoins (which is mentioned in the above quote).

I hate how Raging handled this, but as far as I'm concerned he told us he wanted all 22 dev chips to start his assembly biz and no one objected, so everything was public and we all knew what he was planning to do with them.

I recall asking for my chip in a pm. When you get to the point where the chips are shipped, a lot of people wanted them to go certain places. I'll try to find it.

edit: I found your post. It looks to me a lot of people (including myself) voted for the chips to go to bkk (I later pmed him saying I wanted it personally). Not too much time or effort was used dwelling on it. The only reason no one else voted was because they didn't have enough to get 1 chip sent one place or another on their own. He also doesn't have a mining company so to say he's using it himself is untrue since he gave them to prodigits7.

As for this quote:

Yes but you forget I have my own project and it is a lot of work doing this group buy as well. 8 so far and I will keep the rest for development.  I am only getting 1% (7.8BTC) for doing this group buy. If you guys don't think this is fair then please let me know.

Lets just say I don't think this is fair, which is why I've been asking where they were since they were announced and raging disappeared...

[erschiessen]

Did bkk ever receive the sample chips from this group buy?

I seem to recall that the sample chips were 'stuck in customs' for months.

[Barklad]

I agree with Noitev and Wrenchmonkey. Ragin has been a scumbag during this entire affair and has caused all sorts of mayhem among numerous groupbuys. Just because some of you are relieved that this clusterfuck is almost over isn't a reason not to levy punitive fines against Ragin. JohnK should get paid via Ragin's refund. He already walked away scot-free with dev chips, I'll be damned if a bunch of you want to roll over and say it's "just" 1.5%. Scams and mismanagement will continue to happen in groupbuys if we don't start setting proper examples.

[darkjed]

Is there an updated sheet for refunds somewhere? Or are we still gathering data? I've submitted all my purchases to redphlegm's form, but there doesn't appear to be a link to view the information...

[Noitev]

I agree with Noitev and Wrenchmonkey. Ragin has been a scumbag during this entire affair and has caused all sorts of mayhem among numerous groupbuys. Just because some of you are relieved that this clusterfuck is almost over isn't a reason not to levy punitive fines against Ragin. JohnK should get paid via Ragin's refund. He already walked away scot-free with dev chips, I'll be damned if a bunch of you want to roll over and say it's "just" 1.5%. Scams and mismanagement will continue to happen in groupbuys if we don't start setting proper examples.

exactly my point. If you guys don't care, hope you don't mind giving me "just" $1000 dollars...

[DPoS]

I agree with Noitev and Wrenchmonkey. Ragin has been a scumbag during this entire affair and has caused all sorts of mayhem among numerous groupbuys. Just because some of you are relieved that this clusterfuck is almost over isn't a reason not to levy punitive fines against Ragin. JohnK should get paid via Ragin's refund. He already walked away scot-free with dev chips, I'll be damned if a bunch of you want to roll over and say it's "just" 1.5%. Scams and mismanagement will continue to happen in groupbuys if we don't start setting proper examples.

I agree as well.

You would think in his past fragile state of mind, now with him pulling out in front of an SUV and getting wacked just after his gf's surgery that he would be in full backetcase mode and be light years away from the internet again...

but money talks right?   

[perseus]

JohnK: pay him his escrow fee.
Ragin: He has already said he does not expect to receive his 1%. Leave him be. Personally, I feel like he has good intentions but is just a bit unreliable. In the end, we lucked out because the chips were under water anyways, but we were fortunately able to back out of the order.

[ragingazn628]

JohnK: pay him his escrow fee.
Ragin: He has already said he does not expect to receive his 1%. Leave him be. Personally, I feel like he has good intentions but is just a bit unreliable. In the end, we lucked out because the chips were under water anyways, but we were fortunately able to back out of the order.

Again,

I would like to apologize for all this. I did not mean for all of this to happen. I had a huge bump in my life and I'm just trying slowly to get back on my feet. I am currently processing refunds in my other group buy:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=233624.new#new

Anyone know when Avalon is refunding this group buy?

[ragingazn628]

I did not steal anything. Prodigits7 has the 32 sample chips. I have a recording of him saying he has it as well. I am in the same situation as everyone else right now.

You also need to be careful with prodigits7. He's not who he says he is. He claimed to have made Avalon Clones. I met up with him and he showed me a few parts but not a fully working one. I was stupid enough to believe him. I have all his lies recorded. Thank god I didn't trust him to receive the KnCMiner refunds. Who knows what he would have done. Anyway, I am refunding people from my other group buy right now.

hey guys,

Let's make one thing clear... I do NOT have the BTC from this group buy. I never did. JohnK was the escrow and he has everything. He will be around soon, I don't know where he went. I do not have the chips from this group buy either .... that's why we are being refunded.

except for the sample chips... Can you pay for john k's escrow fee/ the people who took over since you kinda failed as a group buy organizer...

That's not how it works, Noitev. You are paying JohnK's escrow fee, because you are now getting the full force of his protection.

Im aware and appreciate john ks existence, Im just saying raging more or less blatantly tried to steal our chips (he stole 20 already) and since we did everything to prevent it, he wants his entire share back as a fallback. Isn't it suspicious that he's never on, except when money is at stake for him? we paid for john k. to prevent exactly what he did, and now that we have some of his funds, I think it's only fair we subtract johns fee from raging's investment.

Also, as much as I love John k, we resorted to having to use group buy members to facilitate the transaction/cancellation. I understand both sides of the argument, namely that raging is saying "The price is 1.5% higher so that if I scam you, you get your money back." but when he actually does, isn't it fair that he pay for the 1.5%? I understand it could have very well have been a poor set of circumstances and that he might not have tried to scam us, but my opinion is totally opposed to that when he magically becomes healthy enough to post on the forums, something he was incapable of doing while he had control of over 50,000 dollars in hardware coming to him and had endless queries asking chip statuses. The only time he ever posted was when he was in serious risk of losing his chips

-just moved in to my house, that's why I was gone, relax
-death in the family, sorry Im still ok to do this
-therapist told me to separate myself from the internet, everything is still fine
-Oh there's a refund? ok, give me all my money back then...

Obviously he doesn't deserve the 1% so he's not going to argue for that, but he'll be damned if he comes out of this with less than what he put in after all the work he's gone through failing to scam us. I was ok with all of this so far, since I talked to prodigits a few times on skype. That was until raging said he gave the sample chips that were decidedly not his to prodigits7, a personal friend of his he wants to repay for doing damage control on his kncminer groupbuy. I'd value the chips at over 4 btc total since they were shipped months ago. So if raging feels like he can pay prodigits, why not pay the people doing damage control here? I honestly wouldn't really care if raging would just pay for the 1.5% escrow fee, but he's gonna try to profit on this failed groupbuy by double dipping in the chips and the full amount of the refund? screw that.