Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation

[1715153361]

1715153361

[Peter R]

They create a virtual currency, even if it is decentralized. This includes creating altcoins. In fact, Satoshi would have commited a crime creating Bitcoin without registration. (200.2n5)

I don't agree with this interpretation.

200.2m: Virtual Currency means any type of digital unit that is used as a medium of exchange or a form of digitally stored value or that is incorporated into payment system technology.

200.2n5: controlling, administering, or issuing a Virtual Currency.

So, by their definition, VC is the currency, not the protocol. Satoshi has published Bitcoin the protocol, but he has never "issued" Bitcoin the currency.

Mastercoin and Ripple could be in trouble, though.

And Nxt, NEM, any coin that IPO'd and possibly any coin that was instant/ninja mined.  

I would also say that ALL proof-of-stake coins are "controlled and administered" by the developers in order to bypass the nothing-at-stake problem therefore giving them administrator privileges over the blockchain (for example, Vericoin devs just forked their blockchain to undo the theft from Mintpal).

Legitimately mined coins would be fine IMO.  I expect sidechains and spinoffs would be fine too.  I'm not sure about proof-of-burn coins (e.g., Counterparty).  

[empowering]

Buk SA-11

[kodtycoon]

They create a virtual currency, even if it is decentralized. This includes creating altcoins. In fact, Satoshi would have commited a crime creating Bitcoin without registration. (200.2n5)

I don't agree with this interpretation.

200.2m: Virtual Currency means any type of digital unit that is used as a medium of exchange or a form of digitally stored value or that is incorporated into payment system technology.

200.2n5: controlling, administering, or issuing a Virtual Currency.

So, by their definition, VC is the currency, not the protocol. Satoshi has published Bitcoin the protocol, but he has never "issued" Bitcoin the currency.

Mastercoin and Ripple could be in trouble, though.

And Nxt, NEM, any coin that IPO'd and possibly any coin that was instant/ninja mined.  

I would also say that ALL proof-of-stake coins are "controlled and administered" by the developers in order to bypass the nothing-at-stake problem therefore giving them administrator privileges over the blockchain (for example, Vericoin devs just forked their blockchain to undo the theft from Mintpal).

Legitimately mined coins would be fine IMO.  I expect sidechains and spinoffs would be fine too.  I'm not sure about proof-of-burn coins (e.g., Counterparty).  

nem didnt ipo.

in an ipo you get a certain amount of coins based on investment.

with nem you basically paid a tiny fee to register as a stake holder and by doing that you get an equal share. the fee gradually increased over time so people did not get x amount of coins based on money invested.

and what vericoin did cant be done to nxt due to rolling checkpoints. its all in the whitepaper but obviously no one reads those anymore.

[Peter R]

nem didnt ipo.

in an ipo you get a certain amount of coins based on investment.

with nem you basically paid a tiny fee to register as a stake holder and by doing that you get an equal share. the fee gradually increased over time so people did not get x amount of coins based on money invested.

Save your story for the Super Nintendo, kid.

[Erdogan]

you want to know how they will regulate Bitcoin in NY state ? http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2aycxs/hi_this_is_ben_lawsky_at_nydfs_here_are_the/cizyqyz

Entities are considered dealing in virtual currencies if:
They transfer Bitcoins on behalf of one person. This includes Bitcoin tipping (/u/changetip), mixers, Blockchain.info Send Shared, CoinJoin, Dark Wallet (200.2n1)
They hold or have control over Bitcoins for their users. This includes Mining pools, Coinbase, Circle, Greenaddress.it, all exchanges. (200.2n2)
They buy or sell Bitcoins as a business activity. This includes Local Bitcoins sellers, #bitcoin-otc. FinCEN statements includes selling physical coinage (including casascius coins) also regulated. (200.2n3)
They create a virtual currency, even if it is decentralized. This includes creating altcoins. In fact, Satoshi would have commited a crime creating Bitcoin without registration. (200.2n5)
They trade any virtual currency, even for another virtual currency. This includes alt coin exchanges. Mintpal, Cryptsy, BTER, etc (200.2n4)
.. to any resident in New York. Web services, even those incorporated overseas, must either comply or block access for NY users. (200.2n)
Entities 'dealing in virtual currency' must:
Perform AML and collect identities, including verification of government issued Photo ID and proof of address, and retain these information for 10 years. (200.15a)
Retain all transaction logs for 10 years, including real name & physical addresses of ALL parties of a transaction - yes, including whoever you are sending to. (200.12a1)
Report all transactions over the USD value of $3000, and file Suspicious Activity Reports. (200.15g4)
Maintain collateral in the form of USD, including collateral for Bitcoin balances. The % as collateral is unspecified.
Retained earnings and profits of in invested in US dollars. They may not keep any profit in Bitcoin. (200.8b)
Forfeit Bitcoins that are inactive for over 5 years to the State of New York - (200.12c)
Not obfuscate any transactions - Bitcoin mixing would be illegal. (200.15f)



Interesting: now these people who creates altcoin would be committing a crime, even satoshi committed a crime following this logic. and NY wants to take your coins, so you wont be able to use your coins as a saving method ? yea so bad news for hodlers.


this is the whole document if you want to read it http://www.dfs.ny.gov/about/press2014/pr1407171-vc.pdf

Committing a crime?

You are describing these regulation news as negative, are you shorting Bitcoin by the way? Just kidding

These type of regulations are pretty common in the financial world when companies are in charge of customers funds, this is GOOD for Bitcoin: no more Mt.GOXes, only serious players are allowed now.

Bullish news

No more Ponzies, except Madoff. No more scams, except MF Global. No more bank collapses, except Lehman. No more money laundering, except HSBC. No more market manipulations, except LIBOR, gold...

[roslinpl]

++ someone was talking about price drop / crash / etc?

Pe prepared! $630 is coming.

$627 now.

[theonewhowaskazu]

This is crazy. What is the justification for forcing someone to forfeit coins after 5 years? And how the absolute fuck do they intend to enforce that? After 5 years you can easily claim you forgot your private key, or rotate your coins to a new address, or anything of that nature.

And now you can officially be a criminal for posting a combination of characters onto the internet. Wonderful  

[keithers]

Nice little flash spike in prices to get us up to $629 on Stamp

[kodtycoon]

nem didnt ipo.

in an ipo you get a certain amount of coins based on investment.

with nem you basically paid a tiny fee to register as a stake holder and by doing that you get an equal share. the fee gradually increased over time so people did not get x amount of coins based on money invested.

Save your story for the Super Nintendo, kid.

condescending prick. i was only correcting your false statement.

what you said about about ALL pos being controlled etc isnt true about nxt. they use rolling check points to protect against 1440 blck rewind.  read the whitepaper. if your capable of understanding it.

get shit right if you wana go round acting like you know everything.

[jl2012]

This is crazy. What is the justification for forcing someone to forfeit coins after 5 years? And how the absolute fuck do they intend to enforce that? After 5 years you can easily claim you forgot your private key, or rotate your coins to a new address, or anything of that nature.

And now you can officially be a criminal for posting a combination of characters onto the internet. Wonderful  

It's the dormant coins storing on exchanges, not in your own wallet

[Dalmar]

This is crazy. What is the justification for forcing someone to forfeit coins after 5 years? And how the absolute fuck do they intend to enforce that? After 5 years you can easily claim you forgot your private key, or rotate your coins to a new address, or anything of that nature.

And now you can officially be a criminal for posting a combination of characters onto the internet. Wonderful  

It's regarding exchange/third party accounts, not cold storage private coins. Reasoning behind it could be because people die and whatnot.

[Richy_T]

Interesting: now these people who creates altcoin would be committing a crime, even satoshi committed a crime following this logic. and NY wants to take your coins, so you wont be able to use your coins as a saving method ? yea so bad news for hodlers.

Bitcoin is poison to New York which gains so much of its income from the financial sector and feeding at the trough of nearby Washington. Such regulation will only hasten its fall.

[Richy_T]

This is crazy. What is the justification for forcing someone to forfeit coins after 5 years? And how the absolute fuck do they intend to enforce that? After 5 years you can easily claim you forgot your private key, or rotate your coins to a new address, or anything of that nature.

Sounds like that's only for places holding others' bitcoins.

This may actually be a good thing as avoiding having others hold your bitcoins should be drilled into everyone. Now you can tell em that New York wants to steal them.

[Adrian-x]

They create a virtual currency, even if it is decentralized. This includes creating altcoins. In fact, Satoshi would have commited a crime creating Bitcoin without registration. (200.2n5)

I don't agree with this interpretation.

200.2m: Virtual Currency means any type of digital unit that is used as a medium of exchange or a form of digitally stored value or that is incorporated into payment system technology.

200.2n5: controlling, administering, or issuing a Virtual Currency.

So, by their definition, VC is the currency, not the protocol. Satoshi has published Bitcoin the protocol, but he has never "issued" Bitcoin the currency.

Mastercoin and Ripple could be in trouble, though.

And Nxt, NEM, any coin that IPO'd and possibly any coin that was instant/ninja mined.  

I would also say that ALL proof-of-stake coins are "controlled and administered" by the developers in order to bypass the nothing-at-stake problem therefore giving them administrator privileges over the blockchain (for example, Vericoin devs just forked their blockchain to undo the theft from Mintpal).

Legitimately mined coins would be fine IMO.  I expect sidechains and spinoffs would be fine too.  I'm not sure about proof-of-burn coins (e.g., Counterparty).  

I interpreted this as an attack on the likes of Crypcy by those consulted with the NY regulators, Crypcy will eventually manage if they don’t already their own internal ledger by mining their own coin, and issuing it as a customer reword/ retention program and eventually requiring it be used as commission in exchange for other alts.  

It also puts a dampener on any exchange wanting to move forward with a technology solution to securing Bitcoin with the likes of Open Transaction, and instead enforces they use a less secure regulatory solution.

[wachtwoord]

you want to know how they will regulate Bitcoin in NY state ? http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2aycxs/hi_this_is_ben_lawsky_at_nydfs_here_are_the/cizyqyz

Entities are considered dealing in virtual currencies if:
They transfer Bitcoins on behalf of one person. This includes Bitcoin tipping (/u/changetip), mixers, Blockchain.info Send Shared, CoinJoin, Dark Wallet (200.2n1)
They hold or have control over Bitcoins for their users. This includes Mining pools, Coinbase, Circle, Greenaddress.it, all exchanges. (200.2n2)
They buy or sell Bitcoins as a business activity. This includes Local Bitcoins sellers, #bitcoin-otc. FinCEN statements includes selling physical coinage (including casascius coins) also regulated. (200.2n3)
They create a virtual currency, even if it is decentralized. This includes creating altcoins. In fact, Satoshi would have commited a crime creating Bitcoin without registration. (200.2n5)
They trade any virtual currency, even for another virtual currency. This includes alt coin exchanges. Mintpal, Cryptsy, BTER, etc (200.2n4)
.. to any resident in New York. Web services, even those incorporated overseas, must either comply or block access for NY users. (200.2n)
Entities 'dealing in virtual currency' must:
Perform AML and collect identities, including verification of government issued Photo ID and proof of address, and retain these information for 10 years. (200.15a)
Retain all transaction logs for 10 years, including real name & physical addresses of ALL parties of a transaction - yes, including whoever you are sending to. (200.12a1)
Report all transactions over the USD value of $3000, and file Suspicious Activity Reports. (200.15g4)
Maintain collateral in the form of USD, including collateral for Bitcoin balances. The % as collateral is unspecified.
Retained earnings and profits of in invested in US dollars. They may not keep any profit in Bitcoin. (200.8b)
Forfeit Bitcoins that are inactive for over 5 years to the State of New York - (200.12c)
Not obfuscate any transactions - Bitcoin mixing would be illegal. (200.15f)



Interesting: now these people who creates altcoin would be committing a crime, even satoshi committed a crime following this logic. and NY wants to take your coins, so you wont be able to use your coins as a saving method ? yea so bad news for hodlers.


this is the whole document if you want to read it http://www.dfs.ny.gov/about/press2014/pr1407171-vc.pdf

Easy solution? Incorporate outside of the US and give them the middle finger. Americans always think their laws apply outside of the US.

[alexeft]

This is crazy. What is the justification for forcing someone to forfeit coins after 5 years? And how the absolute fuck do they intend to enforce that? After 5 years you can easily claim you forgot your private key, or rotate your coins to a new address, or anything of that nature.

Sounds like that's only for places holding others' bitcoins.

This may actually be a good thing as avoiding having others hold your bitcoins should be drilled into everyone. Now you can tell em that New York wants to steal them.

Good thought!!! No more gox! No more banks!

[Adrian-x]

you want to know how they will regulate Bitcoin in NY state ? http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2aycxs/hi_this_is_ben_lawsky_at_nydfs_here_are_the/cizyqyz

Entities are considered dealing in virtual currencies if:
They transfer Bitcoins on behalf of one person. This includes Bitcoin tipping (/u/changetip), mixers, Blockchain.info Send Shared, CoinJoin, Dark Wallet (200.2n1)
They hold or have control over Bitcoins for their users. This includes Mining pools, Coinbase, Circle, Greenaddress.it, all exchanges. (200.2n2)
They buy or sell Bitcoins as a business activity. This includes Local Bitcoins sellers, #bitcoin-otc. FinCEN statements includes selling physical coinage (including casascius coins) also regulated. (200.2n3)
They create a virtual currency, even if it is decentralized. This includes creating altcoins. In fact, Satoshi would have commited a crime creating Bitcoin without registration. (200.2n5)
They trade any virtual currency, even for another virtual currency. This includes alt coin exchanges. Mintpal, Cryptsy, BTER, etc (200.2n4)
.. to any resident in New York. Web services, even those incorporated overseas, must either comply or block access for NY users. (200.2n)
Entities 'dealing in virtual currency' must:
Perform AML and collect identities, including verification of government issued Photo ID and proof of address, and retain these information for 10 years. (200.15a)
Retain all transaction logs for 10 years, including real name & physical addresses of ALL parties of a transaction - yes, including whoever you are sending to. (200.12a1)
Report all transactions over the USD value of $3000, and file Suspicious Activity Reports. (200.15g4)
Maintain collateral in the form of USD, including collateral for Bitcoin balances. The % as collateral is unspecified.
Retained earnings and profits of in invested in US dollars. They may not keep any profit in Bitcoin. (200.8b)
Forfeit Bitcoins that are inactive for over 5 years to the State of New York - (200.12c)
Not obfuscate any transactions - Bitcoin mixing would be illegal. (200.15f)



Interesting: now these people who creates altcoin would be committing a crime, even satoshi committed a crime following this logic. and NY wants to take your coins, so you wont be able to use your coins as a saving method ? yea so bad news for hodlers.


this is the whole document if you want to read it http://www.dfs.ny.gov/about/press2014/pr1407171-vc.pdf

Committing a crime?

You are describing these regulation news as negative, are you shorting Bitcoin by the way? Just kidding

These type of regulations are pretty common in the financial world when companies are in charge of customers funds, this is GOOD for Bitcoin: no more Mt.GOXes, only serious players are allowed now.

Bullish news

not so fast, if you can secure coins on an Exchange, that cannot be tampered with by the owner of the exchange (see Open Transaction- OT) this would be the most secure way to store funds on an exchange.

This regulation prohibits the use of storing Bitcoin on an exchange that uses OT because in order to obtain the the BIT licence you would have to make sure that the exchange has access to the funds for compliance, (so it can forfeit to the state) this immediately opens up a security hole and an opportunity for theft.  

[Adrian-x]

No more Ponzies, except Madoff. No more scams, except MF Global. No more bank collapses, except Lehman. No more money laundering, except HSBC. No more market manipulations, except LIBOR, gold...

quite the posit, this actually ensures Fractional reserves Bitcoins will flourish and more financial scandals will happen.

[mmitech]

you want to know how they will regulate Bitcoin in NY state ? http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2aycxs/hi_this_is_ben_lawsky_at_nydfs_here_are_the/cizyqyz

Entities are considered dealing in virtual currencies if:
They transfer Bitcoins on behalf of one person. This includes Bitcoin tipping (/u/changetip), mixers, Blockchain.info Send Shared, CoinJoin, Dark Wallet (200.2n1)
They hold or have control over Bitcoins for their users. This includes Mining pools, Coinbase, Circle, Greenaddress.it, all exchanges. (200.2n2)
They buy or sell Bitcoins as a business activity. This includes Local Bitcoins sellers, #bitcoin-otc. FinCEN statements includes selling physical coinage (including casascius coins) also regulated. (200.2n3)
They create a virtual currency, even if it is decentralized. This includes creating altcoins. In fact, Satoshi would have commited a crime creating Bitcoin without registration. (200.2n5)
They trade any virtual currency, even for another virtual currency. This includes alt coin exchanges. Mintpal, Cryptsy, BTER, etc (200.2n4)
.. to any resident in New York. Web services, even those incorporated overseas, must either comply or block access for NY users. (200.2n)
Entities 'dealing in virtual currency' must:
Perform AML and collect identities, including verification of government issued Photo ID and proof of address, and retain these information for 10 years. (200.15a)
Retain all transaction logs for 10 years, including real name & physical addresses of ALL parties of a transaction - yes, including whoever you are sending to. (200.12a1)
Report all transactions over the USD value of $3000, and file Suspicious Activity Reports. (200.15g4)
Maintain collateral in the form of USD, including collateral for Bitcoin balances. The % as collateral is unspecified.
Retained earnings and profits of in invested in US dollars. They may not keep any profit in Bitcoin. (200.8b)
Forfeit Bitcoins that are inactive for over 5 years to the State of New York - (200.12c)
Not obfuscate any transactions - Bitcoin mixing would be illegal. (200.15f)



Interesting: now these people who creates altcoin would be committing a crime, even satoshi committed a crime following this logic. and NY wants to take your coins, so you wont be able to use your coins as a saving method ? yea so bad news for hodlers.


this is the whole document if you want to read it http://www.dfs.ny.gov/about/press2014/pr1407171-vc.pdf

Easy solution? Incorporate outside of the US and give them the middle finger. Americans always think their laws apply outside of the US.

the problem is that most likely the other states will follow the same path, Businesses in EU will have a big problem serving US customers, at the end they will have to ban US customers if the hassle is too much for them.