Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[JayJuanGee]

Volume on down days is getting smaller while volume on up days is getting bigger, relatively speaking, on average.

If this is really true, then to me, that would imply that there are fewer and fewer people willing to sell BTC within this price range.

[oda.krell]

part of the reason why the current uptrend drags out like it does is because the market is increasingly professionalized: in the absence of ... (i.e. a new fiat floodgate...), the rational thing to do is take small profits early rather than hope for larger profits later.

That dynamic is providing energy to coil the spring for the next leap.  It works until it doesn't work.  The scalpers pick up the nickels, while the hodlers ride the steamroller.  The scalpers end up 50% in on average, or less if they short.  When the game shifts, that's a lot of capacity that needs to be filled suddenly in order to tag along for the upthrust.  We've seen this switch flip a few times since the GBL (Gox bankruptcy low).  One day it will stick in the On position, and money will flow until the circuit breakers blow.

I didn't say it's a long term stable state, did I? But for now, it seems to be the "small profit takers" that run the show. Until, indeed, the switch is flipped again and we see another "resistant" run-up. Which might take a while.

Before that, I expect a small scale version of the same dynamic, but one that is still sensitive enough to the profit takers' actions. Say, another week or more of the current sideways, maybe even a re-test of lower levels, and then another leg up to 800, 900.

[JorgeStolfi]

the important point is that  turning USD into bitcoin requires a bank transfer (BT) of some sort. (Out of curiosity, are there exchanges that accept credit card?).

Well,  [ ... ] there are other ways to obtain bitcoins that don't involve a BT.   Just to name a few: localbitcoin (peer to peer exchange), ATM (Robocoin/Lamassu), mining (as unfeasible or expensive it may seem, it's still a valid method), donations (remember the "Hi mom, send bitcoin here" sign a few months ago?), or even salary (yes, there are employers who offer this opportunity to their employees).

The ATM is another layer between you and the banks.  Namely, the cash is deposited into the ATM company's bank account, and transfered to the bank account of some exchange in order to buy moer bitcoins.  The fee of that BT is included in the ATM fee.

Granted that there need not be any BT for localbitcoin transactions that are paid in cash; but  that requires meeting the BTC seller in person, which is not the most convenient thing in the world.  (I read an amusing tale of such a transaction, somewhere on this forum, that took several hours and ended with the buyer feeling obliged to help the seller load some heavy furniture onto a truck.)

Mining and donations would fall into the cases of "have BTC", rather than "have USD".

Anyone could benefit from a discount offered in BTC prices at the present time, even while currently possessing 0 BTC.
 
If the company A ("Dell") offers the possibility to either

1) Purchase an item at full USD price or
2) Purchase an item with a x % discount if priced through BTC

I'd say that if the discount is greater than the expenses for the BTC conversion you end up paying a lower price, whether you have "cheap" BTC or not.

Well, indeed Dell is offering a discount for BTC purchases, but:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/dell/10980089/Dell-jumps-on-the-Bitcoin-bandwagon.html

Unfortunately for customers in the UK, Dell’s adoption of Bitcoin is confined to the US. Customers in Europe will not be able to make purchases using crypto-currencies. It is offering a 10 per cent discount on Alienware products, up to a limit of $150, to promote the news.

I wonder how much Dell overcharges for Alienware computers?   (I tried comparing prices in the catalogs below, but could not find comparable configurations.)

Dell catalog:
http://outlet.us.dell.com/ARBOnlineSales/Online/InventorySearch.aspx?c=us&cs=22&l=en&s=dfh&brandid=2201&fid=4450

Alienware catalog:
http://www.dell.com/us/p/alienware-17/pd.aspx

In general, payment from USD in your bank to USD in the merchant's bank via bitcoin cannot be cheaper than paying directly in USD, since the latter is just one BT, the former is two BTs and other stuff in the middle. The bitcoin path may seem to be cheaper only because the second BT is hidden in the Coinbase fee, and the first BT is paid beforehand and thus does not feel like it is part of the payment.

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation

[empowering]

Yes you called the question stupid, and no you did not understand it. If "you pay USD go USD to BTC to buy", as the poster suggested, how do you send USD to Coinbase/exchange/Bitpay/whatever?

I go to Dell's website, and I choose to pay with bitcoins from my blockchain wallet, no?

See why I would rather not buy bitcoin?  Exposure to the stuff ruins one's vision so that even the simplest stupid question becomes utterly incomprehensible, even if repeated in boldface -- if the answer turns out to be inconvenient.  

Yes, Jorge.  Most of us here realize that you are a troll, and that is why you frequently ask such stupid questions and make such unimportant comments.

There is NOTHING inconvenient about the answer to your question, except that you should be able to figure it out yourself if you were more involved in buying and selling bitcoins.  Instead, you claim to have NOT purchased any through any service.

There are a variety of ways to acquire bitcoins by wiring money or by handing cash to someone or by mining or by earning them through a service or sales of a product.  Once you have the bitcoin(s), then you can use them to acquire Dell products or services (Dell chooses whether or NOT it wants to convert back to fiat and/or when to convert back to fiat, if it is going to convert).

Most importantly also the magical unicorn method for sending USD- I think this is the answer Jorge deserved for this simple question- hence that is why I gave that answer to start with.... y'know what they say "ask a stupid question, expect a stupid answer"

[ejinte]

the important point is that  turning USD into bitcoin requires a bank transfer (BT) of some sort. (Out of curiosity, are there exchanges that accept credit card?).

Well,  [ ... ] there are other ways to obtain bitcoins that don't involve a BT.   Just to name a few: localbitcoin (peer to peer exchange), ATM (Robocoin/Lamassu), mining (as unfeasible or expensive it may seem, it's still a valid method), donations (remember the "Hi mom, send bitcoin here" sign a few months ago?), or even salary (yes, there are employers who offer this opportunity to their employees).

The ATM is another layer between you and the banks.  Namely, the cash is deposited into the ATM company's bank account, and transfered to the bank account of some exchange in order to buy moer bitcoins.  The fee of that BT is included in the ATM fee.

Granted that there need not be any BT for localbitcoin transactions that are paid in cash; but  that requires meeting the BTC seller in person, which is not the most convenient thing in the world.  (I read an amusing tale of such a transaction, somewhere on this forum, that took several hours and ended with the buyer feeling obliged to help the seller load some heavy furniture onto a truck.)

Mining and donations would fall into the cases of "have BTC", rather than "have USD".
..............
In general, payment from USD in your bank to USD in the merchant's bank via bitcoin cannot be cheaper than paying directly in USD, since the latter is just one BT, the former is two BTs and other stuff in the middle. The bitcoin path may seem to be cheaper only because the second BT is hidden in the Coinbase fee, and the first BT is paid beforehand and thus does not feel like it is part of the payment.

Actually this is true. But can you pay with dollar bills straight to dell? No not on their website, obviously. You must have a bank account together with a card. And for that it will be fees. Also if you would like to move your USD around the world it will be fees and lots of restrictions. Bitcoin is free!!!

[hyphymikey]

3d MACD divergence turned red on all exchanges, for the first time since May.

Good. I'm still waiting for a 1W to be red.

[bucktotal]

Cavirtex with crazy spikes.

Show the volume 

this is bug and i think its in bitcoinwisdom.com

it appears that those spikes are not due to orders going through - that is, sell orders are not being filled when those spikes happen.

[Erdogan]

Jorge, what is so fantastic about reals? To buy a dell computer, they either have to be converted to usd by you, or by dell just after the trade. If you buy locally, the local merchant has the same two options.

In a world with different types of money, you just have to convert sometimes. That's why we need Keynes' bancor. (joke).

[WillyBTC]

I got all excited this morning thinking we were gonna break through..... false alarm.

[empowering]

3d MACD divergence turned red on all exchanges, for the first time since May.

Good. I'm still waiting for a 1W to be red.

Is that because you are short BTC/bearish or because you are looking for the MACD to uncross the otherway again, before a bump up?  

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation

[Frapparpeles]

After the GOX collapse, anyone with fiat or Bitcoins on any exchange has balls of steel. Gox did a lot of harm, and it will take time to recover.

This is why we are seeing so little volume in general, no selling and no buying, sorry but no more bubbles until 2015...

True, but what could possibly happen in 2015 to change this? Are you implying we'll have a trusteable exchange? What constitutes a trusteable exchange? Of course anything is more trusteable than some manchild that used to play Magic the Gathering, but im just saying, what would the ideal scenareo be on there?

If the Bit Licences actually turn out to work we might see exchanges in a 'trusted' New York surrounding for example. Maybe even in the vicinity of Starbucks stores!

[empowering]

After the GOX collapse, anyone with fiat or Bitcoins on any exchange has balls of steel. Gox did a lot of harm, and it will take time to recover.

This is why we are seeing so little volume in general, no selling and no buying, sorry but no more bubbles until 2015...

True, but what could possibly happen in 2015 to change this? Are you implying we'll have a trusteable exchange? What constitutes a trusteable exchange? Of course anything is more trusteable than some manchild that used to play Magic the Gathering, but im just saying, what would the ideal scenareo be on there?

If the Bit Licences actually turn out to work we might see exchanges in a 'trusted' New York surrounding for example. Maybe even in the vicinity of Starbucks stores!

They do large, dessert-like coffees?

[ElectricMucus]

After the GOX collapse, anyone with fiat or Bitcoins on any exchange has balls of steel. Gox did a lot of harm, and it will take time to recover.

This is why we are seeing so little volume in general, no selling and no buying, sorry but no more bubbles until 2015...

True, but what could possibly happen in 2015 to change this? Are you implying we'll have a trusteable exchange? What constitutes a trusteable exchange? Of course anything is more trusteable than some manchild that used to play Magic the Gathering, but im just saying, what would the ideal scenareo be on there?

If the Bit Licences actually turn out to work we might see exchanges in a 'trusted' New York surrounding for example. Maybe even in the vicinity of Starbucks stores!

They do large, dessert-like coffees?

... except I expect your table leaves less censored and more hanging out.

It's not "hanging," but yes.
Why such interest in my coffee table btw?

Due to the popularity of Rassah's coffee table, I opted to start it's own thread for all to discuss their obsessions with her table.

OK, GO!

[Frapparpeles]

After the GOX collapse, anyone with fiat or Bitcoins on any exchange has balls of steel. Gox did a lot of harm, and it will take time to recover.

This is why we are seeing so little volume in general, no selling and no buying, sorry but no more bubbles until 2015...

True, but what could possibly happen in 2015 to change this? Are you implying we'll have a trusteable exchange? What constitutes a trusteable exchange? Of course anything is more trusteable than some manchild that used to play Magic the Gathering, but im just saying, what would the ideal scenareo be on there?

If the Bit Licences actually turn out to work we might see exchanges in a 'trusted' New York surrounding for example. Maybe even in the vicinity of Starbucks stores!

They do large, dessert-like coffees?

Yes, yes! I hope so. Love them! 

[JorgeStolfi]

Most importantly also the magical unicorn method for sending USD- I think this is the answer Jorge deserved for this simple question- hence that is why I gave that answer to start with.... y'know what they say "ask a stupid question, expect a stupid answer"

But, have you checked how expensive is to rent a magical unicorn these days?   

[harlenadler]

Anyone notice this short term divergence in price between Huobi and BFX? What's up with that?

[empowering]

Most importantly also the magical unicorn method for sending USD- I think this is the answer Jorge deserved for this simple question- hence that is why I gave that answer to start with.... y'know what they say "ask a stupid question, expect a stupid answer"

But, have you checked how expensive is to rent a magical unicorn these days?   

Well that gets a bit complicated, because they do not accept BTC directly (yet,  but when they do, I tell you that will be Bullish CCMF etc) , so I have to use pesky blood sodden fiat, and to get the fiat to the Unicorn exchange is a real palava... and the commision is a killer....  but hey what can you do....  also last time they sent me a bloody rhinoceros,  getting the refund was a real pain...

[hdbuck]

Most importantly also the magical unicorn method for sending USD- I think this is the answer Jorge deserved for this simple question- hence that is why I gave that answer to start with.... y'know what they say "ask a stupid question, expect a stupid answer"

But, have you checked how expensive is to rent a magical unicorn these days?  

why even respond to such comment? you seem to have a lot of time to waste for an academic attention seeker. hum.