Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[Frozenlock]

This recent talk made me think - how many of people in this topic, who hold BTC are at loss from their average entry point?

i would imagine very few people are sitting on a loss

So it's after majority will sit on loss we will be finished with the bubble

yes and gold will drop to 100$ an oz for the same reasons

Meh, I'm waiting for ~$300 before buying back gold 

[TheKoziTwo]

How do you deal with capital gains? Ignore it?

I would have some... but I lost most of my private keys in an unfortunate boat accident.

Wow that blows... Sorry to hear that man

I think you missed the implied "wink wink"


EDIT: Also, he was illustrating the point of how easy it is to LEGALLY avoid taxes, provided you have lots of money. The more money you have, the easier it is to take advantage of legal structures specifically put in place to help rich folks avoid taxes. So that they can then donate to the political campaigns of those who put the legal structures in place.

Everything is going according to plan.

Hmm, I see. But in that case, it doesn't really illustrate the point, because one doesn't have to pay capital gains on unrealized gains. It's when you convert to fiat that the capital gains will have to be paid. So if you claim to have lost your coins in a boating accident, one day you may want to convert them to fiat, and then you'll have some trouble explaining how you gained those coins. Maybe you cheated on income taxes? I can't see how that would be an advantage.

The thing is, since these exchanges operate within legal boundaries and the owners are known and probably documented by law enforcement agencies, we are somewhat safeguarded if our fiat were be stolen or abused by the owners of the exchange. There are systems in place in the real world which would combat criminal endeavours to steal our fiat. Bitcoin has none of those. It might all turn to shit tomorrow, that's the harsh truth of it all, and you wouldn't be able to do a damn thing to prevent it. Your coins might even get stolen from the exchange, and you wouldn't be able to do squat. You might be a "bitcoin believer", but i prefer to be realistic about this whole thing, and i think that's the smart thing to do as well instead of putting blind faith into all of this.

Most likely situation, if this were to happen: DOJ swoops in, seizes/restrains bank accounts, presses civil case to recover assets... then after several years, account holders get paid pennies on the dollar out of a remission fund. If you feel safe with fiat on the exchanges, don't. (Same goes for BTC, obviously)

This.

[Rampion]

This recent talk made me think - how many of people in this topic, who hold BTC are at loss from their average entry point?

i would imagine very few people are sitting on a loss

So it's after majority will sit on loss we will be finished with the bubble

Then it's single digits. And won't happen.

Keep dreaming

[Rampion]

The thing is, since these exchanges operate within legal boundaries and the owners are known and probably documented by law enforcement agencies, we are somewhat safeguarded if our fiat were be stolen or abused by the owners of the exchange. There are systems in place in the real world which would combat criminal endeavours to steal our fiat. Bitcoin has none of those. It might all turn to shit tomorrow, that's the harsh truth of it all, and you wouldn't be able to do a damn thing to prevent it. Your coins might even get stolen from the exchange, and you wouldn't be able to do squat. You might be a "bitcoin believer", but i prefer to be realistic about this whole thing, and i think that's the smart thing to do as well instead of putting blind faith into all of this.

Most likely situation, if this were to happen: DOJ swoops in, seizes/restrains bank accounts, presses civil case to recover assets... then after several years, account holders get paid pennies on the dollar out of a remission fund. If you feel safe with fiat on the exchanges, don't. (Same goes for BTC, obviously)

Seriously, that fucking sucks. How does anyone feel safe with large funds on these exchanges?

And how does anyone feel safe with large funds on any bank or third party?

But yes, BTC exchanges are even worst.

And that's why a paper wallet is your best friend.

[Rampion]

I'm thinking greed will help Bitcoin.

LOL, how can we live in such a fucked up world?

[lucas.sev]

42BTC sell has 1.6USD slippage, nice

[TheKoziTwo]

I'm thinking greed will help Bitcoin.

LOL, how can we live in such a fucked up world?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWsx1X8PV_A

[runam0k]

That's some high end custom trade data analysis software you're running.  Really highlights the trends.  Love it.

[Rampion]

I'm thinking greed will help Bitcoin.

LOL, how can we live in such a fucked up world?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWsx1X8PV_A

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPl_Y3Qdb7Y

EDIT: Kozi, it looks like I'm more a red+black type of guy, while you like better yellow+black

[BitcoinAshley]

How do you deal with capital gains? Ignore it?

I would have some... but I lost most of my private keys in an unfortunate boat accident.

Wow that blows... Sorry to hear that man

I think you missed the implied "wink wink"

EDIT: Also, he was illustrating the point of how easy it is to LEGALLY avoid taxes, provided you have lots of money. The more money you have, the easier it is to take advantage of legal structures specifically put in place to help rich folks avoid taxes. So that they can then donate to the political campaigns of those who put the legal structures in place.

Hmm, I see. But in that case, it doesn't really illustrate the point, because one doesn't have to pay capital gains on unrealized gains. It's when you convert to fiat that the capital gains will have to be paid. So if you claim to have lost your coins in a boating accident, one day you may want to convert them to fiat, and then you'll have some trouble explaining how you gained those coins. Maybe you cheated on income taxes? I can't see how that would be an advantage.

Sure, that bit was referring to the remainder of his post, where he did illustrate several ways rich folk can legally avoid taxes - methods generally unavailable to lower-income brackets. I may have been a bit hasty in my quote-pruning.

As for the boating accident - cashing out through an exchange (and your bank reporting the >$10,000 deposit to your bank account to the IRS per regulation) isn't the only way to cash out.

[lucas.sev]

As for the boating accident - cashing out through an exchange (and your bank reporting the >$10,000 deposit to your bank account to the IRS per regulation) isn't the only way to cash out.

Yeah I saw people selling dollar bills for BTC on Silkroad   Legit bills, good reviews.

[adamstgBit]

crash is coming soon, bitcoin will rise!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WDqo3k72vs

[ChartBuddy]

[TheKoziTwo]

How do you deal with capital gains? Ignore it?

I would have some... but I lost most of my private keys in an unfortunate boat accident.

Wow that blows... Sorry to hear that man

I think you missed the implied "wink wink"

EDIT: Also, he was illustrating the point of how easy it is to LEGALLY avoid taxes, provided you have lots of money. The more money you have, the easier it is to take advantage of legal structures specifically put in place to help rich folks avoid taxes. So that they can then donate to the political campaigns of those who put the legal structures in place.

Hmm, I see. But in that case, it doesn't really illustrate the point, because one doesn't have to pay capital gains on unrealized gains. It's when you convert to fiat that the capital gains will have to be paid. So if you claim to have lost your coins in a boating accident, one day you may want to convert them to fiat, and then you'll have some trouble explaining how you gained those coins. Maybe you cheated on income taxes? I can't see how that would be an advantage.

Sure, that bit was referring to the remainder of his post, where he did illustrate several ways rich folk can legally avoid taxes - methods generally unavailable to lower-income brackets. I may have been a bit hasty in my quote-pruning.

As for the boating accident - cashing out through an exchange (and your bank reporting the >$10,000 deposit to your bank account to the IRS per regulation) isn't the only way to cash out.

Yah, but cashing out is another discussion. I'm really only talking about trading. Quite impractical to do big scale "day trading" through OTC.

There is no doubt rich people are able to get around taxes easier though.

[Jozzaboy]

crash is coming soon, bitcoin will rise!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WDqo3k72vs

Bitcoin, the hedge against the world economy?

[lucas.sev]

crash is coming soon, bitcoin will rise!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WDqo3k72vs

Bitcoin, the hedge against the world economy?

Wow, that's powerful. I have not heard it before.

[Jozzaboy]

crash is coming soon, bitcoin will rise!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WDqo3k72vs

Bitcoin, the hedge against the world economy?

Wow, that's powerful. I have not heard it before.

Did my sarcasm go *Woosh!* as it flew over your head?

[adamstgBit]

crash is coming soon, bitcoin will rise!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WDqo3k72vs

Bitcoin, the hedge against the world economy?

Bitcoin, decentralization of world domination 

[lucas.sev]

crash is coming soon, bitcoin will rise!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WDqo3k72vs

Bitcoin, the hedge against the world economy?

Wow, that's powerful. I have not heard it before.

Did my sarcasm go *Woosh!* as it flew over your head?

It did, my sarcasm detectors got totally miscalibrated after some of the cult-like talk about bitcoin.

[Richy_T]

This recent talk made me think - how many of people in this topic, who hold BTC are at loss from their average entry point?

i would imagine very few people are sitting on a loss

Someone was buying at 265.