Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[TheKoziTwo]

http://www.fincen.gov/news_room/speech/pdf/20130613.pdf

Those who are intermediaries in the transfer of virtual currencies from one person to another person, or to another location, are money transmitters that must register with FinCEN as MSBs, unless an exception applies.

Pretty depressing really.

Liberty Reserve operated as an online money transmitter deliberately designed to avoid regulatory scrutiny and tailored its services to illicit actors looking to launder their ill gotten gains.

According to the allegations contained in a related criminal action brought by the U.S. Department of Justice, those illicit actors included criminal organizations engaged in credit card fraud, identity theft, investment fraud, computer hacking, narcotics trafficking, and most relevant for today’s purposes, child pornography.
The action taken by FinCEN was designed to protect the financial system from the risk posed by Liberty Reserve an online, virtual currency, money transfer system that was conceived and operated specifically to allow and encourage illicit use because of the anonymity it offers.

They could replace "Liberty Reserve" with "Bitcoin" and it would still be just as accurate, more so actually.

I recently heard a banker say that there is a reason that financial institutions have to obtain licenses. It is a great bestowal of trust that enables banks to be part of the U.S. financial system, to be part of the global financial system.

Yeah... "A great bestowal of trust". It has nothing to do with preventing competition. no no.

The saddest thing about this entire document is that they never mentioned that foreign companies / individuals are exempt as long as they do not deal with US.

Guess nobody is really exempt from the almighty world police of USSA.

I would like to close with a challenge to our great innovators: extend your focus to devising creative solutions for preventing the abuse of virtual currencies by criminals, such as those who would exploit children

The "think of the children" card, honestly, it's getting kind of old.

We all stand to benefit from such innovation, and the related transparency and integrity to our financial system

Oh, the sweet sweet irony.

[Its About Sharing]

Having volume today is a very normal market reaction. 

If we are expecting that the "manipulator" will make a large dump on Sunday to cause a price fall,  then the no-brainer approach will be to sell your coin now, and stock up on your fiat, to buy back on Sunday after the dump.

[ChartBuddy]

[sacko]

then the no-brainer approach will be to sell your coin now, and stock up on your fiat, ...

As a "no-brainer", thats just what I did

[el_rlee]

then the no-brainer approach will be to sell your coin now, and stock up on your fiat, ...

As a "no-brainer", thats just what I did

Exactly this is why the price was falling now. However market theory says that this is all priced in the 103$ we have now.
Obviously the Sunday dumps will not go on forever...

[Double-Spent]

then the no-brainer approach will be to sell your coin now, and stock up on your fiat, ...

As a "no-brainer", thats just what I did

Do you really believe the "dumper" will follow the same pattern this week? That's quite a long shot. If I was him, I wouldn't dump when everybody is expecting it. It would be very stupid.

[sacko]

Obviously the Sunday dumps will not go on forever...

Of course not!

[fr33d0miz3r]

then the no-brainer approach will be to sell your coin now, and stock up on your fiat, ...

As a "no-brainer", thats just what I did

Do you really believe the "dumper" will follow the same pattern this week? That's quite a long shot. If I was him, I wouldn't dump when everybody is expecting it. It would be very stupid.

My opinion is that the next dump will happen before weekend. Like yesterday, this will be today.

[phoenix1]

Obviously the Sunday dumps will not go on forever...

Of course not!

Better watch out ... dumper may turn round and decide to scoop you up instead 

[ChartBuddy]

[BitPirate]

http://www.fincen.gov/news_room/speech/pdf/20130613.pdf

Those who are intermediaries in the transfer of virtual currencies from one person to another person, or to another location, are money transmitters that must register with FinCEN as MSBs, unless an exception applies.

Pretty depressing really.

Liberty Reserve operated as an online money transmitter deliberately designed to avoid regulatory scrutiny and tailored its services to illicit actors looking to launder their ill gotten gains.

According to the allegations contained in a related criminal action brought by the U.S. Department of Justice, those illicit actors included criminal organizations engaged in credit card fraud, identity theft, investment fraud, computer hacking, narcotics trafficking, and most relevant for today’s purposes, child pornography.
The action taken by FinCEN was designed to protect the financial system from the risk posed by Liberty Reserve an online, virtual currency, money transfer system that was conceived and operated specifically to allow and encourage illicit use because of the anonymity it offers.

They could replace "Liberty Reserve" with "Bitcoin" and it would still be just as accurate, more so actually.

I recently heard a banker say that there is a reason that financial institutions have to obtain licenses. It is a great bestowal of trust that enables banks to be part of the U.S. financial system, to be part of the global financial system.

Yeah... "A great bestowal of trust". It has nothing to do with preventing competition. no no.

The saddest thing about this entire document is that they never mentioned that foreign companies / individuals are exempt as long as they do not deal with US.

Guess nobody is really exempt from the almighty world police of USSA.

I would like to close with a challenge to our great innovators: extend your focus to devising creative solutions for preventing the abuse of virtual currencies by criminals, such as those who would exploit children

The "think of the children" card, honestly, it's getting kind of old.

We all stand to benefit from such innovation, and the related transparency and integrity to our financial system

Oh, the sweet sweet irony.

Come on, it's not that bad - they seem to be quite positive about the potential for Bitcoin, but just require US exchangers to be registered and regulated.

They specificaly mention they are not out to get Bitcoin, and the quote you took out of context was used in her speech to specifically point out the differences between Bitcoin and LR. So to say "you could substitute LR for Bitcoin in that sentence" is woefully disengenuous.

It is apparent that Gox is making a best effort to comply with the regulations, and it looks like that has been heard loud and clear by FinCEN.

As for the children  angle -- well this is a meeting specifically about that, what do you expect?

It must suck to be around you, since it seems you are wilfully pessimistic about everything.

[Coinseeker]

The trouble is that because BTC is used more for speculation than anything else the price varies wildly according speculators moods.  If it was more widely used as a currency then that would give it an intrinsic value and some inertia to its price changes.  For example there are traders dealing in USD but if they go crazy then still nobody's going to give you $20000 for £500 because $20000 also represents the price of a new car which £500 obviously doesn't.  Widespread use might not be good for speculators but for BTC itself as a currency it would stabilise its value a lot.

Of course though this is a speculators forum so I don't expect this suggestion to be very popular here!

In 2011 Visa peaked at 11,000 transactions per second.  Now that's, two years ago.

2013, Bitcoin can handle only what, 5-7 transactions per second?  

Bottom line, Bitcoin will never be a world currency.  It won't even be a "new Visa".  

[Its About Sharing]

The trouble is that because BTC is used more for speculation than anything else the price varies wildly according speculators moods.  If it was more widely used as a currency then that would give it an intrinsic value and some inertia to its price changes.  For example there are traders dealing in USD but if they go crazy then still nobody's going to give you $20000 for £500 because $20000 also represents the price of a new car which £500 obviously doesn't.  Widespread use might not be good for speculators but for BTC itself as a currency it would stabilise its value a lot.

Of course though this is a speculators forum so I don't expect this suggestion to be very popular here!

In 2011 Visa peaked at 11,000 transactions per second.  Now that's, two years ago.

2013, Bitcoin can handle only what, 5-7 transactions per second?  

Bottom line, Bitcoin will never be a world currency.  It won't even be a "new Visa".  

There are so many ways to improve upon Bitcoins speed, but as the lead developer Gavin said, in general, developers don't plan for something that hasn't yet arrived. (within reason and I'm paraphrasing).
If you think this open source software is operating at the highest level it can, then you are mistaken.

Another thing, BTC isn't to replace all of what Visa does. Clearly some people don't care about fees and such. We are just trying to get a small % (to start) of their transactions. That alone will change our price magnitudes (yes). I'm sure when Visa was 4 years old that it couldn't handle 11k transactions per second and it is unfair to think BTC should right now (not to mention it doesn't need to).

We are still in Beta and yet trading at $100+ (and my bet, like yours, to come down in price.    )

[phoenix1]

Bottom line, Bitcoin will never be a world currency.  It won't even be a "new Visa".  

YES IT WILL
Fuck off ... go on ... get out ...

How many transactions per second can Gold handle hey ...

[TheKoziTwo]

http://www.fincen.gov/news_room/speech/pdf/20130613.pdf

Those who are intermediaries in the transfer of virtual currencies from one person to another person, or to another location, are money transmitters that must register with FinCEN as MSBs, unless an exception applies.

Pretty depressing really.

Liberty Reserve operated as an online money transmitter deliberately designed to avoid regulatory scrutiny and tailored its services to illicit actors looking to launder their ill gotten gains.

According to the allegations contained in a related criminal action brought by the U.S. Department of Justice, those illicit actors included criminal organizations engaged in credit card fraud, identity theft, investment fraud, computer hacking, narcotics trafficking, and most relevant for today’s purposes, child pornography.
The action taken by FinCEN was designed to protect the financial system from the risk posed by Liberty Reserve an online, virtual currency, money transfer system that was conceived and operated specifically to allow and encourage illicit use because of the anonymity it offers.

They could replace "Liberty Reserve" with "Bitcoin" and it would still be just as accurate, more so actually.

I recently heard a banker say that there is a reason that financial institutions have to obtain licenses. It is a great bestowal of trust that enables banks to be part of the U.S. financial system, to be part of the global financial system.

Yeah... "A great bestowal of trust". It has nothing to do with preventing competition. no no.

The saddest thing about this entire document is that they never mentioned that foreign companies / individuals are exempt as long as they do not deal with US.

Guess nobody is really exempt from the almighty world police of USSA.

I would like to close with a challenge to our great innovators: extend your focus to devising creative solutions for preventing the abuse of virtual currencies by criminals, such as those who would exploit children

The "think of the children" card, honestly, it's getting kind of old.

We all stand to benefit from such innovation, and the related transparency and integrity to our financial system

Oh, the sweet sweet irony.

Come on, it's not that bad - they seem to be quite positive about the potential for Bitcoin, but just require US exchangers to be registered and regulated.

They specificaly mention they are not out to get Bitcoin, and the quote you took out of context was used in her speech to specifically point out the differences between Bitcoin and LR. So to say "you could substitute LR for Bitcoin in that sentence" is woefully disengenuous.

It is apparent that Gox is making a best effort to comply with the regulations, and it looks like that has been heard loud and clear by FinCEN.

As for the children  angle -- well this is a meeting specifically about that, what do you expect?

It must suck to be around you, since it seems you are wilfully pessimistic about everything.

It's very naive of you to believe these guys have good intentions. They are saying whatever sounds good publicly, but if they had good intentions, liberty reserve wouldn't be closed. It provided a very valuable service that no banks could compete with. Bitcoin, is liberty reserve on steroids. The unstoppable version of liberty reserve. Of course they're not in favor of that.

[barbs]

TIMMMBEEERRRRR!!!!   

[samson]

Down, Down, Down !

[barbs]

Good morning America?

I'm dying to buy in again.... But if you look at the 30 day chart it looks like a staircase going down at this point

[Coinseeker]

Bottom line, Bitcoin will never be a world currency.  It won't even be a "new Visa".  

YES IT WILL
Fuck off ... go on ... get out ...

How many transactions per second can Gold handle hey ...

Oops...sorry.  I meant "Up, Up, Up".  "Bitcoin will take over the world."  "All hail Satoshi!"  

[BitcoinAshley]

Yeah, still trying to find a good buy-in point for the additional fiat I transferred. Looks increasingly likely that this won't be any time soon, but hey. Let's see how long we hang around near $100. Maybe I'll just add to my trading stash so I can make more money off the n00bs like Coinseeker