Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[KS]

This is what scare guys like coin seeker, it feels so warm and comfortable in FEDs bosom, or using Ripple, the final "debt+trust as a currency" centralized system....

BTC its not only internet's cash, free as a bird and superior by orders of magnitude to its paper counterpart, it's also regulated by math and not by those who have the power to press the button of the money printing machines.

A lot of power to the people, gentlemen.

Power to the rich people and massive coin holders.  No different than the current banking and government status quo.  Just nerdier.  

What you say is that wealthy people rules, well thats how capitalism works, and Bitcoin was never designed to address that. Its just the most neutral form of money you can conceive.  And "the current banking system and government status quo" face a huge, game-changing challenge with Bitcoin, only that by itself is a huge step forward.

We'll just have to agree to disagree on the "game-changing challenge".  $1 billion market cap??  Laughable at best.  It's not even a drop, of a drop in the bucket.  They're not worried.  Not at all.

I'll go for *potentially* game changing.

I dream of a hardware miner/wallet that you'd use as your home ATM...plug and play, secure.

[kickinyou]

Oh its so bad that i have to sleep now , it will probebly be some bigger buys/sells in the nearest 8 hours
Im all out at the moment hoping for that big down but im aldo scared to miss that big up , europe to bed now .

[zachcope]

No one can change the creation rate of bitcoin.
That alone is an awesome property as it incentivises people to invest in real value creation to make wealth.
The current system rewards greedy bankers creating complex financial instruments that effectively lead to governments bailing them out by inflating away savings, pensions etc.
If bitcoins ruled, or even became a mainstream option, there would be pressure on central bankers to reduce money printing, as otherwise people would choose bitcoin.
The world's greatest minds could then concentrate on engineering, environmental terraforming, medicine and agriculture to actually improve mankind's lot.

[Rampion]

This is what scare guys like coin seeker, it feels so warm and comfortable in FEDs bosom, or using Ripple, the final "debt+trust as a currency" centralized system....

BTC its not only internet's cash, free as a bird and superior by orders of magnitude to its paper counterpart, it's also regulated by math and not by those who have the power to press the button of the money printing machines.

A lot of power to the people, gentlemen.

Power to the rich people and massive coin holders.  No different than the current banking and government status quo.  Just nerdier.  

What you say is that wealthy people rules, well thats how capitalism works, and Bitcoin was never designed to address that. Its just the most neutral form of money you can conceive.  And "the current banking system and government status quo" face a huge, game-changing challenge with Bitcoin, only that by itself is a huge step forward.

We'll just have to agree to disagree on the "game-changing challenge".  $1 billion market cap??  Laughable at best.  It's not even a drop, of a drop in the bucket.  They're not worried.  Not at all.

I'll go for *potentially* game changing.

I dream of a hardware miner/wallet that you'd use as your home ATM...plug and play, secure.

Yeah, mini USB miners could have such a potential, if only a player could have the manufacturing resources to produce millions of them and price them reasonably, it could do so much for wider adoption... A machine that actually produces income, explain that to your grandma

[dexX7]

Welcome back, rpietila! And welcome to the new guys. I'm happy to see more people with a professional background getting in.

Small PSA for Bitstamp'ers: withdrawal protection via e-mail confirmation has been added.

[zemario]

This is what scare guys like coin seeker, it feels so warm and comfortable in FEDs bosom, or using Ripple, the final "debt+trust as a currency" centralized system....

BTC its not only internet's cash, free as a bird and superior by orders of magnitude to its paper counterpart, it's also regulated by math and not by those who have the power to press the button of the money printing machines.

A lot of power to the people, gentlemen.

Power to the rich people and massive coin holders.  No different than the current banking and government status quo.  Just nerdier. 

This is very inaccurate.

"Power to the rich... no different than..."

'Rich people' are the largest subset of 'powerful people'. If you accept the concept of money then, according on you, there is no form of money that would be different. The only way of being different would be not to exist since it would always give more power to the rich as that is pretty much its purpose.

Now, bitcoin was open from day one. The genesis block was released without blockchain premining, anyone could jump in given enough knowledge and a computer. Those who thought it was a good investment are not regretting it by now. At the most they are regretting they didn't keep more coins.
Fast forward to today. If a rich person wants to buy a large amount of coins, (s)he will have to spend a LOT of fiat compared to early adopters.
Also, rich people can't just have the privilege of minting more bitcoins, whatever bitcoins are minted, they have to have the the acceptance of the network.
If people is worried about a network take over, a program could be put together for people to buy small mining units to promote decentralization.

[Coinseeker]

I'll go for *potentially* game changing.

I dream of a hardware miner/wallet that you'd use as your home ATM...plug and play, secure.

That's a pretty cool idea.  However, that assumes that what is being kept secure, is still valuable.  With this manipulation and no safeguards in place any big money player can destroy Bitcoin.  I didn't realize that before, but now it is blatantly clear.  Let's use any government that has $1 billion to spare.

They could build massive mining rigs and with the rest, purchase BTC slowly.  It wouldn't take long before they would control enough BTC to just continually smash the markets with wave after wave of coordinated "dump attacks".  All confidence would be would be lost.  Current investors would flee into other currencies and investments.  Potential investors would stay away from a corrupt and manipulated currency.  It's actually a better Achilles heel than any regulation could dream of having.  

So in the end, Bitcoin's greatest weakness, is it's very own principles of non-regulation.  The irony is quite amusing.

[Coinseeker]

This is what scare guys like coin seeker, it feels so warm and comfortable in FEDs bosom, or using Ripple, the final "debt+trust as a currency" centralized system....

BTC its not only internet's cash, free as a bird and superior by orders of magnitude to its paper counterpart, it's also regulated by math and not by those who have the power to press the button of the money printing machines.

A lot of power to the people, gentlemen.

Power to the rich people and massive coin holders.  No different than the current banking and government status quo.  Just nerdier.  

This is very inaccurate.

"Power to the rich... no different than..."

Maybe I could have been clearer.  It's the attitude that's the same.  I'm a capitalist.  People should be able to make as much money as they can.  But they also do so with a certain amount of responsibility to their communities.  It's when you remove this human aspect, that I have a problem because then you're really just like a virus. One that consumes everything in it's path, with no regard to anyone or anything else.  And in the end it destroys it's self, when there is nothing left to consume.

[Richy_T]

The big speculators are easy to beat. Just don't play their game.

BUY??? SELL???

Hold. And/or just buy what you need, when you need it.

[Rampion]

I'll go for *potentially* game changing.

I dream of a hardware miner/wallet that you'd use as your home ATM...plug and play, secure.

That's a pretty cool idea.  However, that assumes that what is being kept secure, is still valuable.  With this manipulation and no safeguards in place any big money player can destroy Bitcoin.  I didn't realize that before, but now it is blatantly clear.  Let's use any government that has $1 billion to spare.

They could build massive mining rigs and with the rest, purchase BTC slowly.  It wouldn't take long before they would control enough BTC to just continually smash the markets with wave after wave of coordinated "dump attacks".  All confidence would be would be lost.  Current investors would flee into other currencies and investments.  Potential investors would stay away from a corrupt and manipulated currency.  It's actually a better Achilles heel than any regulation could dream of having.  

So in the end, Bitcoin's greatest weakness, is it's very own principles of non-regulation.  The irony is quite amusing.

That kind of attack could be indeed the most effective way to destabilize Bitcoin, much more effective than a ban, but still is an attack that becomes more expensive to perform year after year, and the final outcome is not clear. Let them try, this experiment has to be proven and tested under all kind of stress. I have plenty of popcorn.

[crumbs]

Yeah, mini USB miners could have such a potential, if only a player could have the manufacturing resources to produce millions of them and price them reasonably, it could do so much for wider adoption... A machine that actually produces income, explain that to your grandma

I'm sure grandma has seen a Coke machine in action

[Rampion]

Yeah, mini USB miners could have such a potential, if only a player could have the manufacturing resources to produce millions of them and price them reasonably, it could do so much for wider adoption... A machine that actually produces income, explain that to your grandma

I'm sure grandma has seen a Coke machine in action

I hope you get the idea despite of my poor English

[chriswilmer]

I'll go for *potentially* game changing.

I dream of a hardware miner/wallet that you'd use as your home ATM...plug and play, secure.

That's a pretty cool idea.  However, that assumes that what is being kept secure, is still valuable.  With this manipulation and no safeguards in place any big money player can destroy Bitcoin.  I didn't realize that before, but now it is blatantly clear.  Let's use any government that has $1 billion to spare.

They could build massive mining rigs and with the rest, purchase BTC slowly.  It wouldn't take long before they would control enough BTC to just continually smash the markets with wave after wave of coordinated "dump attacks".  All confidence would be would be lost.  Current investors would flee into other currencies and investments.  Potential investors would stay away from a corrupt and manipulated currency.  It's actually a better Achilles heel than any regulation could dream of having.  

So in the end, Bitcoin's greatest weakness, is it's very own principles of non-regulation.  The irony is quite amusing.

Worst. Attack. Idea. Ever.

The attacker would be dumping free money until he/she runs out and then the system would continue to run as usual.

[Coinseeker]

That kind of attack could be indeed the most effective way to destabilize Bitcoin, much more effective than a ban, but still is an attack that becomes more expensive to perform year after year, and the final outcome is not clear. Let them try, this experiment has to be proven and tested under all kind of stress. I have plenty of popcorn.

   Me too!  That would be entertaining indeed.

Also, it's pretty presumtious to assume "year after year" would even be necessary.  But this is the speculation forum.

[wachtwoord]

I'll go for *potentially* game changing.

I dream of a hardware miner/wallet that you'd use as your home ATM...plug and play, secure.

That's a pretty cool idea.  However, that assumes that what is being kept secure, is still valuable.  With this manipulation and no safeguards in place any big money player can destroy Bitcoin.  I didn't realize that before, but now it is blatantly clear.  Let's use any government that has $1 billion to spare.

They could build massive mining rigs and with the rest, purchase BTC slowly.  It wouldn't take long before they would control enough BTC to just continually smash the markets with wave after wave of coordinated "dump attacks".  All confidence would be would be lost.  Current investors would flee into other currencies and investments.  Potential investors would stay away from a corrupt and manipulated currency.  It's actually a better Achilles heel than any regulation could dream of having.  

So in the end, Bitcoin's greatest weakness, is it's very own principles of non-regulation.  The irony is quite amusing.

Worst. Attack. Idea. Ever.

The attacker would be dumping free money until he/she runs out and then the system would continue to run as usual.

Indeed they are free to donate their money to the market. Then again, it isn't really their money to begin with is it?

[zemario]

I'll go for *potentially* game changing.

I dream of a hardware miner/wallet that you'd use as your home ATM...plug and play, secure.

That's a pretty cool idea.  However, that assumes that what is being kept secure, is still valuable.  With this manipulation and no safeguards in place any big money player can destroy Bitcoin.  I didn't realize that before, but now it is blatantly clear.  Let's use any government that has $1 billion to spare.

They could build massive mining rigs and with the rest, purchase BTC slowly.  It wouldn't take long before they would control enough BTC to just continually smash the markets with wave after wave of coordinated "dump attacks".  All confidence would be would be lost.  Current investors would flee into other currencies and investments.  Potential investors would stay away from a corrupt and manipulated currency.  It's actually a better Achilles heel than any regulation could dream of having.  

So in the end, Bitcoin's greatest weakness, is it's very own principles of non-regulation.  The irony is quite amusing.

We're already past the point where half of the coins are in circulation. But think about the bold bit of your quote. You are suggesting they could kill bitcoins by giving to bitcoin owners the market value in fiat.
That is not killing it, that is embracing it. They would need to buy many bitcoins, I don't know what your definition of slowly is, but you are suggesting they would provide continuous demand for BTC. By the time they dump them, the markets will gratefully eat them and ask for more.

[crumbs]

Yeah, mini USB miners could have such a potential, if only a player could have the manufacturing resources to produce millions of them and price them reasonably, it could do so much for wider adoption... A machine that actually produces income, explain that to your grandma

I'm sure grandma has seen a Coke machine in action

I hope you get the idea despite of my poor English

It wasn't a language dig.  I just don't see much difference between an ASIC miner & a soda vending machine.  Both require electricity & minimum maintenance.  Given those two, they'll both either make or lose money

[Coinseeker]

Short term memory loss in this forum.  Someone dumped what, $6 million and left the markets looking like Hurricane Katrina just hit.  People are still on the sidelines waiting for the next dump.  $6m is nothing as it relates to governments. Bitcoin, IMO, is not ready for a massive attack, with some serious $100+ million.  Not saying I have the battle plan perfectly mapped out, but just these Sunday dumps is enough to highlight that the potential is real.  This is absolutely an exploitable weakness.  Maybe Bitcoin could survive, maybe it wouldn't.  As was said, it would be entertaining as hell.   

Back to work.  Cheers!

[adamstgBit]

bids filling in, asks being eaten away. very little selling going on.

[Frozenlock]

bids filling in, asks being eaten away.

Are you all in yet?