Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[adamstgBit]

Bitcoin is not diving because of Alibaba, it is diving because we are above the true transaction value of Bitcoin, we will go down until we are at or close to the transactional value of bitcoin, then up when speculation drives the price again.

meh... the Alibaba scenario is perfectly viable... the timing is too much.. only hours to go until the biggest IPO in history... seems plausible enough to me, well as plausible as your opinion that BTC is below its transaction value...maybe more plausible because

he saying it will keep going down untill price = transaction value.

[JayJuanGee]

What would be dead is the inflated expectations of a few overzealous people. That's all.

So it's greedy if a bitcoiner buys a bitcoin sometime, ANYTIME in 2014, and expects it to more or less retain it's value? Should no one have bought any bitcoins AT ALL in 2014 and held them?

Honestly answer the question.  2014 is nearly over, it's been 10 months.

Maybe not greedy but naive? Bitcoin went up x100 in 2013. Do you expect this to just maintain its value without major corrections?

If you want to retain value short to mid term at least, then Bitcoin is not the asset to do that. Bitcoin is an asset to look for high growth, and with that growth comes the cost of RISK.

Sticky please. First post everyone should read who enters this forum.

This is what frustrates me about the constant touting of bitcoin as a "store of value." Ask anyone who bought in during 2014 how that's working out for them.

Now go ask the same question to those who bought in 2012/2013 and come back in a few years.

Is that what a "store of value" is? Buy today, lose more than 1/2 the value in several months, and then hope we have a bubble that goes 10x my initial buy-in a few years later? Is that a "store of value"?

scarsbergholden:  You seem to be exaggerating a little bit and playing ignorant.  I believe that store of value merely means that by the time you cash out, the asset is worth at least the same and potentially more than it was worth when you purchased it.   Surely, with storage of value, you would probably like it to hold at least the value of relatively stable storage of value mechanisms... maybe expecting some appreciation of value between 3 to 5% per year. Of course, if it gains greater value than otherwise stable value storage vehicles, then that would be icing on the cake.

Then we disagree on the definition of a store of value. While Wikipedia is shite, I think it has this sentence right -- "The point of any store of value is intrinsic risk management due to an inherent stable demand for the underlying asset."

To act as if bitcoin can serve this role would be to play ignorant. Bitcoin is in its infancy. I'm not denying the potential, but I don't think we have the price history and historic demand to feel confident as a store of value at all.

Using stores of value is a way to manage your risk. Buying bitcoin is, on the other hand, a very risky investment. That doesn't mean we can't go to the moon. But the point still stands.

The point also still stands that I explained my point of view, so the fact that you consider BTC to NOT be a good store of value is your perspective and your way of treating it  (actually you seem to be completely denying that it can be used or even considered to be a store of value, which seems a bit extreme from my point of view); however, even if you want to have a narrow definition regarding what is or what is NOT a store of value that does NOT mean that others may NOT have means to incorporate BTC in to their total store of value package... as I already explained in my earlier post.... and I find NO need for you to attempt to denigrate others for having a different perspective from you.

[twiifm]

Yeah... it seems to make sense for a possible explanation... speculators holding off until the last minute to take some funds and push them into the Alibaba P&D...  so... question is... how much will come back to mumma Bitcoin and how soon?

Seems like win win, force market down with sell off, walk away with x amount of cash (and a BTC sold figure) profit from Alibaba pump, take profit and either
pop some in the hole in the water fund, or buy back same amount of BTC (at a now lower price) OR buy back even more BTC at a lower price.

You don't sell Bitcoins 1 day before IPO and also IPO is not for small guys. Bullshit mostly this as a reason, this was purely momentum triggered after nice work done the same way as many times before from the same wall-bear. But could still be some guys selling for IPO, but nothing spectacular.

Why not? sell BTC 1 day before the IPO, if you feel that BTC could go up a few more dollars? (or down? fair enough)

Also, many BTC speculators are .... well speculators... and the biggest IPO of all time is enough to draw in speculators, large and small... as long as they are active in trading in general, I can perfectly see traders taking the risk...  it is more than plausible imo..

Most rational people would rather own shares of Alibaba than Bitcoins.  At least Alibaba has fundamentals

[JayJuanGee]

anything the requires peoples selflessness, to succeed ( if we all hold it will go up ) is doomed to fail. bitcoin will drive that point home. prepare yourselves for new bottom guys. technicals have been broken

Bitcoin is DOOOOOOMMMMMEED!!!!!!!


CUT YOUR LOOSE!!!!!!!!!!!!

naw drank the kool aid ....going down for the count.. I still see a world wide use for bitcoin..it will climb back to some level as long as it offers legitimate use outside of banks and cc and finance checks etc esp overseas...( I know some very happy ukrainans who got their $$$ out of the country due to BTC etc ...

but prob if  btc does tank big it will take quite a bit to get it back up in price with all the press/media fud to sell advertising etc

so ...delusion another way to get bitcoin

I agree with you... I am buying and hodling my BTC.. and accumulating...

But I love that chant....   especially b/c it is ambiguous...


CUT YOUR LOOSE!!!!!!!!!!!!

[adamstgBit]

...
The point also still stands that I explained my point of view, so the fact that you consider BTC to NOT be a good store of value is your perspective and your way of treating it  (actually you seem to be completely denying that it can be used or even considered to be a store of value, which seems a bit extreme from my point of view); however, even if you want to have a narrow definition regarding what is or what is NOT a store of value that does NOT mean that others may NOT have means to incorporate BTC in to their total store of value package... as I already explained in my earlier post.... and I find NO need for you to attempt to denigrate others for having a different perspective from you.

bitcoin is NOT a store value it IS value. oh fuck ya.  

[MoreFun]

Yeah... it seems to make sense for a possible explanation... speculators holding off until the last minute to take some funds and push them into the Alibaba P&D...  so... question is... how much will come back to mumma Bitcoin and how soon?

Seems like win win, force market down with sell off, walk away with x amount of cash (and a BTC sold figure) profit from Alibaba pump, take profit and either
pop some in the hole in the water fund, or buy back same amount of BTC (at a now lower price) OR buy back even more BTC at a lower price.

You don't sell Bitcoins 1 day before IPO and also IPO is not for small guys. Bullshit mostly this as a reason, this was purely momentum triggered after nice work done the same way as many times before from the same wall-bear. But could still be some guys selling for IPO, but nothing spectacular.

Why not? sell BTC 1 day before the IPO, if you feel that BTC could go up a few more dollars? (or down? fair enough)

Also, many BTC speculators are .... well speculators... and the biggest IPO of all time is enough to draw in speculators, large and small... as long as they are active in trading in general, I can perfectly see traders taking the risk...  it is more than plausible imo..

Most rational people would rather own shares of Alibaba than Bitcoins.  At least Alibaba has fundamentals

Can I pay someone on the other side of world few $ grands in a matter of seconds without/cents of fees with Alibaba? If something is digital it doesn't mean there is no value or fundamentals.

[empowering]

Bitcoin is not diving because of Alibaba, it is diving because we are above the true transaction value of Bitcoin, we will go down until we are at or close to the transactional value of bitcoin, then up when speculation drives the price again.

meh... the Alibaba scenario is perfectly viable... the timing is too much.. only hours to go until the biggest IPO in history... seems plausible enough to me, well as plausible as your opinion that BTC is below its transaction value...maybe more plausible because

he saying it will keep going down untill price = transaction value.

opps.... It should have read "BTC is above its transaction value"

[colour]

Isn't it a bit late for selling coins in order to buy Alibaba stock? Exchanges typically do not let you transfer fiat to 3rd party accounts. So I assume you have to transfer to your bank first, then to a stock broker. IPO was Thursday and retail sale is beginning this Friday, so the funds will probably not arrive on time to get in early?

[empowering]

Isn't it a bit late for selling coins in order to buy Alibaba stock? Exchanges typically do not let you transfer fiat to 3rd party accounts. So I assume you have to transfer to your bank first, then to a stock broker. IPO was Thursday and retail sale is beginning this Friday, so the funds will probably not arrive on time to get in early?

Depends on how much liquid cash you already have sitting in bank accounts/with a broker, one could take some BTC profits , speculating on the price to the last(ish) minute, then you have a figure to play with, you then buy BABA with funds already in your account, and action the transfer from the exchange to replenish your fighting funds in your accounts, job done.  

Possible at least... I can see Chinese (and others of course) specualtors being interested in BABA, and some of those may have been BTC specualtors, thinking they are going to try and profit.. maybe not... but it is not beyon the realms imo.

 

[empowering]

Yeah... it seems to make sense for a possible explanation... speculators holding off until the last minute to take some funds and push them into the Alibaba P&D...  so... question is... how much will come back to mumma Bitcoin and how soon?

Seems like win win, force market down with sell off, walk away with x amount of cash (and a BTC sold figure) profit from Alibaba pump, take profit and either
pop some in the hole in the water fund, or buy back same amount of BTC (at a now lower price) OR buy back even more BTC at a lower price.

You don't sell Bitcoins 1 day before IPO and also IPO is not for small guys. Bullshit mostly this as a reason, this was purely momentum triggered after nice work done the same way as many times before from the same wall-bear. But could still be some guys selling for IPO, but nothing spectacular.

Why not? sell BTC 1 day before the IPO, if you feel that BTC could go up a few more dollars? (or down? fair enough)

Also, many BTC speculators are .... well speculators... and the biggest IPO of all time is enough to draw in speculators, large and small... as long as they are active in trading in general, I can perfectly see traders taking the risk...  it is more than plausible imo..

Most rational people would rather own shares of Alibaba than Bitcoins.  At least Alibaba has fundamentals

We are talking about Bitcoin speculators here... some of them may or may not be rational all depending on your point of view.

[twiifm]

Yeah... it seems to make sense for a possible explanation... speculators holding off until the last minute to take some funds and push them into the Alibaba P&D...  so... question is... how much will come back to mumma Bitcoin and how soon?

Seems like win win, force market down with sell off, walk away with x amount of cash (and a BTC sold figure) profit from Alibaba pump, take profit and either
pop some in the hole in the water fund, or buy back same amount of BTC (at a now lower price) OR buy back even more BTC at a lower price.

You don't sell Bitcoins 1 day before IPO and also IPO is not for small guys. Bullshit mostly this as a reason, this was purely momentum triggered after nice work done the same way as many times before from the same wall-bear. But could still be some guys selling for IPO, but nothing spectacular.

Why not? sell BTC 1 day before the IPO, if you feel that BTC could go up a few more dollars? (or down? fair enough)

Also, many BTC speculators are .... well speculators... and the biggest IPO of all time is enough to draw in speculators, large and small... as long as they are active in trading in general, I can perfectly see traders taking the risk...  it is more than plausible imo..

Most rational people would rather own shares of Alibaba than Bitcoins.  At least Alibaba has fundamentals

Can I pay someone on the other side of world few $ grands in a matter of seconds without/cents of fees with Alibaba? If something is digital it doesn't mean there is no value or fundamentals.

Look up what fundamentals mean. 

[JayJuanGee]

if your average cost of a BTC is less than 400 and if you are too invested and have troubles sleeping at night because of this trend, or if you are afraid and not sure about your strategy, now is your chance to reduce your position better than later at a loss (if the price fall further). 

at the end of the last year and beginning of this year, I said it was a good idea to sell some coins (people who bought around $100-200) and take the profits while you can, and now I am telling you that you can still take some profits.... I am afraid that there is a possibility that many of you will regret not doing so later.

Ah, mmitech. I guess you must be feeling pretty stupid right now, having sold half your stash a couple of months back when a certain person made it clear this was a really bad idea as the only way was up. But no, you wouldn't listen...

[sarcasm] yes, I feel sorry for selling at $6xx  , I beat my self everyday because of it, I could be making a ton of money if I didn't sell and listened to the bunch of perma-trollsbulls that hang around here. [/sarcasm]

Where are JJG and Trolfi? I haven't dropped by here for a while, and it seems so much more peaceful without them. I almost feel like staying.

Oh YES!!!!   you should stay, and that way mmitech has someone who is ready, willing and able to kiss his butt.  That would surely be helpful to our analyses and speculations regarding BTC prices.

your analyses ? BTW where I can read your analyses ?  I didn't come across any analyse or sane post of your yet, all I see is butt-hurt posts and attacking most posters when you disagree, and it just struck me that the guy who cant solve a simple mathematical issues knows how to analyse things !!!

YES... It looks like you want to give me an assignment to attempt to prove to you that I have contributed to the forum with my analysis. 

Why would I spend time in such silly endeavors?  I have a lot of posts that provide a considerable amount of information, surely NOT all of my posts are serious, but I have provided quite a few substantive and materially contributory posts.

There is probably little to NO basis for you to arrive at any conclusion regarding my allegedly being "butt hurt."  I have NO real reason to be "butt hurt," whatever the fuck that means. Maybe you could describe, a little better, what you mean by that accusation?

Regarding my supposedly attacking posters, I am NOT sure how you come to that conclusion, either?  I have spent quite a few posts responding to your various silliness - and if you call that attacking, then so be it, but it is NOT so common for me to supposedly "attack" other posters, besides you, because a large majority of the posters, even trolls, seem to make more sense than you, and they do NOT tend to have a pattern of behavior, like you, of such extensive self-aggrandizing.

I will admit that I have seen a few decent posts from you, but those tend to be pretty rare.. maybe a little more common than a snowball in hell, but NOT much.   

your obsession with me is becoming strange and unhealthy, your pathetic way of engaging me is providing a strange and unusual kind of entertainment, yet I cant ignore the pity feeling you give me about your mental health, more concerning is that you seem to see everything I write/do/say offensive and stupid and retarded, while I try to speculate like all of users here most of the time you engage me in a pathetic and retarded yet interesting way that gives the impression of someone butt hurt about something... I ant explain that for you because I was expecting you to explain what does hurt your butt ?


BTW, me selling that stash at 630 and the other half at 580 was the best decision ever, I will wait to invest back at sub $100-200, and I will be investing only $10K and nothing more, enjoy your $600-1200 coins

I would NOT call it a talent, your penchant to go on the attack and to gloat and to otherwise make meaningless comments attempting to compete with me and/or others on this forum. 

I am NOT in the competitive disposition, so I will NOT engage in those ploys.

Ultimately, if you are happy with yourself, then I guess that is a good thing for you.

I would respond further to your other points, but it seems that I have already adequately addressed your various points to the extent that they are repetitive.. so maybe it does NOT matter if I addressed them once, twice or several times, you seem to play the same record over and over and over... which seems to make you feel good, too.

Regarding obsession.. .. .gosh don't flatter yourself too much, now...

But I already realize that you do NOT mean what you say because you tend to be on a diversionary tactics campaign which has a considerable tendency to attack rather than substantively respond.

[MoreFun]

Yeah... it seems to make sense for a possible explanation... speculators holding off until the last minute to take some funds and push them into the Alibaba P&D...  so... question is... how much will come back to mumma Bitcoin and how soon?

Seems like win win, force market down with sell off, walk away with x amount of cash (and a BTC sold figure) profit from Alibaba pump, take profit and either
pop some in the hole in the water fund, or buy back same amount of BTC (at a now lower price) OR buy back even more BTC at a lower price.

You don't sell Bitcoins 1 day before IPO and also IPO is not for small guys. Bullshit mostly this as a reason, this was purely momentum triggered after nice work done the same way as many times before from the same wall-bear. But could still be some guys selling for IPO, but nothing spectacular.

Why not? sell BTC 1 day before the IPO, if you feel that BTC could go up a few more dollars? (or down? fair enough)

Also, many BTC speculators are .... well speculators... and the biggest IPO of all time is enough to draw in speculators, large and small... as long as they are active in trading in general, I can perfectly see traders taking the risk...  it is more than plausible imo..

Most rational people would rather own shares of Alibaba than Bitcoins.  At least Alibaba has fundamentals

Can I pay someone on the other side of world few $ grands in a matter of seconds without/cents of fees with Alibaba? If something is digital it doesn't mean there is no value or fundamentals.

Look up what fundamentals mean. 

You first.

[windjc]

How is the bitcoin speculation depression index?

Looks like it kinda high.

But we aren't in panic mode yet.

Too bad. Bull markets are more fun than bear markets.

Looks like the wait is going to continue.

[empowering]

Yeah... it seems to make sense for a possible explanation... speculators holding off until the last minute to take some funds and push them into the Alibaba P&D...  so... question is... how much will come back to mumma Bitcoin and how soon?

Seems like win win, force market down with sell off, walk away with x amount of cash (and a BTC sold figure) profit from Alibaba pump, take profit and either
pop some in the hole in the water fund, or buy back same amount of BTC (at a now lower price) OR buy back even more BTC at a lower price.

You don't sell Bitcoins 1 day before IPO and also IPO is not for small guys. Bullshit mostly this as a reason, this was purely momentum triggered after nice work done the same way as many times before from the same wall-bear. But could still be some guys selling for IPO, but nothing spectacular.

Why not? sell BTC 1 day before the IPO, if you feel that BTC could go up a few more dollars? (or down? fair enough)

Also, many BTC speculators are .... well speculators... and the biggest IPO of all time is enough to draw in speculators, large and small... as long as they are active in trading in general, I can perfectly see traders taking the risk...  it is more than plausible imo..

Most rational people would rather own shares of Alibaba than Bitcoins.  At least Alibaba has fundamentals

Can I pay someone on the other side of world few $ grands in a matter of seconds without/cents of fees with Alibaba? If something is digital it doesn't mean there is no value or fundamentals.

Look up what fundamentals mean. 

Does it mean made of moondust? or am I thinking of something else?

[cryptworld]

what can we expect now?
lateral market?
a rebound?
actually should have got a higher volume

[MoreFun]

Isn't it a bit late for selling coins in order to buy Alibaba stock? Exchanges typically do not let you transfer fiat to 3rd party accounts. So I assume you have to transfer to your bank first, then to a stock broker. IPO was Thursday and retail sale is beginning this Friday, so the funds will probably not arrive on time to get in early?

Of course it is stupid story, although it sounds kind of possible on the first sight. Also IPO is not for chinese small people (maybe through some fund).

[twiifm]

Isn't it a bit late for selling coins in order to buy Alibaba stock? Exchanges typically do not let you transfer fiat to 3rd party accounts. So I assume you have to transfer to your bank first, then to a stock broker. IPO was Thursday and retail sale is beginning this Friday, so the funds will probably not arrive on time to get in early?

Of course it is stupid story, although it sounds kind of possible on the first sight. Also IPO is not for chinese small people (maybe through some fund).

Are you stupid? Initial Public Offering means anyone w a brokerage account can buy

[nrd525]

It's interesting that this bear market hasn't triggered a flash crash on BTC-E or Bitfinex due to forced liquidations.

[bitllionaire]

It's interesting that this bear market hasn't triggered a flash crash on BTC-E or Bitfinex due to forced liquidations.

I think flash crash are only caused by errors
people errors or
machines errors