Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[NotLambchop]

...
What you say may be true. But bitcoin's value proposition lies in those few lines of code. And that is why they will never be changed.

Unless the cabal of core developers decides to change them

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[macsga]

Bitcoin is a clumsy throwback to the gold standard days.  The rest of the world has long since discovered the benefits of elastic money supply--benefits proven both empirically and through the works of John Maynard Keynes, the father of modern economics.

Bitcoiners, gold bugs and other Austrian School vandals now wish to destroy decades of economic progress, thrusting the world back into pre-Keynesian economic darkness.

Luddites

OK. For the sake of the conversation let's assume I'm someone with the power of Mario Draghi.

-How fair is it that I can (literally) sign a Billion Euro check for "Friends n Family" and have no excuses to give to anyone?
-How fair is it that someone like me decides that a Continent's citizens are obliged to pay for MY check via their tax system?
-How fair is that someone like me decides to buy out any Mass Media in the continent to chirp whatever music I like to hear?

[macsga]

I'm sorry if I have to break it for you guys but there is no "math" that limits the number of bitcoins.
You need to stop thinking about bitcoin as some mathematical absolute that has been discovered by satoshi.
It is more or less just a statement made in code that everyone agrees with.

You know what you're proposing is utterly wrong right?
Economics 101:
-What gives money it's "power"?
-The "agreement" between 2 or more individuals/entities/countries etc to ACCEPT a commodity as money.

To "break it down" for you, this is as simple as you and me having an agreement that from now on we will be using Euros or Zimbabwean dollars for our transactions. This is what powers the grid. The more we agree to do so - the greater the "power".

Now, there's a glitch. *IF* one of the participants decides to forfeit / steal / type more money, the agreement is invalid. You know what they say right? Whenever there's money involved, there's greed as well.

THIS is what Bitcoin is. The ability of Random Matrix Math to solve the human greed factor. The flaw is not the money. It's US.

I have no idea what you are trying to tell me here.

People often suggest there is a greater "Math" behind why bitcoin is limited in supply.
Basically it is a few lines of code in the protocol an the fact that the majority of miners and users follow that protocol.
It is horribly trivial to change the supply of bitcoin to an arbitrary amount if there was enough backing by the community for it.

Saying it is impossible to change is having a fundamental misunderstanding of how or why bitcoin works

The greater math is a line of code that EVERYONE THAT USES IT agrees that "this is it". If someone wants out, the rest continue. Simple as that. If the code changes (by the Cabal of programmers... heh) then people can always follow the "fork" they choose. Or maybe by then, there's a pretty good alternative to follow.

[xyzzy099]

The rest of the world has long since discovered the benefits of how to rob the populace with elastic money supply--benefits proven both empirically and through the works of John Maynard Keynes, the father of modern economics.

Bitcoiners, gold bugs and other Austrian School vandals now wish to destroy decades of economic progress, thrusting the world back into pre-Keynesian economic darkness.

Luddites

FTFY

Back to education again...  I'm pretty sure Keynes was not a Monetarist.  That would be the work of Milton Friedman you are talking about.  If governments would be satisfied to only expand/contract the money supply in very unusual circumstances, as prescribed by Dr. Friedman, it might be marginally tolerable, but governments will not restrain themselves to the necessary, and any inflationary currency will always be abused for political expediency.

[hdbuck]

The flaw is not the money. It's US.

yup

[macsga]

The flaw is not the money. It's US.

yup

EXACTLY!

[xyzzy099]

Saying it is impossible to change is having a fundamental misunderstanding of how or why bitcoin works

I think it's you who are failing to understand what 'Bitcoin' is.  If you changed the 21M coin limit or the generation algorithm you will have created yet another alt coin (which is done every day) .  You will not have changed Bitcoin.

[NotLambchop]

Bitcoin is a clumsy throwback to the gold standard days.  The rest of the world has long since discovered the benefits of elastic money supply--benefits proven both empirically and through the works of John Maynard Keynes, the father of modern economics.

Bitcoiners, gold bugs and other Austrian School vandals now wish to destroy decades of economic progress, thrusting the world back into pre-Keynesian economic darkness.

Luddites

OK. For the sake of the conversation let's assume I'm someone with the power of Mario Draghi.

-How fair is it that I can (literally) sign a Billion Euro check for "Friends n Family" and have no excuses to give to anyone?
-How fair is it that someone like me decides that a Continent's citizens are obliged to pay for MY check via their tax system?
-How fair is that someone like me decides to buy out any Mass Media in the continent to chirp whatever music I like to hear?

-How fair is it that some humans are born with good looks while others with congenital diseases?
-How fair is it that some humans are born rich and don't need to work a day in their lives, while others starve?
-Fair.  You earthlings crack Us up.



  ~Your Beneficent Reptilian Overlords.

[macsga]

Saying it is impossible to change is having a fundamental misunderstanding of how or why bitcoin works

I think it's you who are failing to understand what 'Bitcoin' is.  If you changed the 21M coin limit or the generation algorithm you will have created yet another alt coin (which is done every day) .  You will not have changed Bitcoin.

+1
Bitcoin's power is based on its participants. Not it's code.

[criptix]

debt is good?
dear keynesians, this only would have worked if central banks could not print fiat out of thin air to lend it with interest to the government.

how often did the US has to change their debt ceiling in the last 3-4 years?
and its not only a US problem, pretty much every industry nation is nearing a debt crisis, which gonna explode sooner or later under their butt.

[macsga]

Bitcoin is a clumsy throwback to the gold standard days.  The rest of the world has long since discovered the benefits of elastic money supply--benefits proven both empirically and through the works of John Maynard Keynes, the father of modern economics.

Bitcoiners, gold bugs and other Austrian School vandals now wish to destroy decades of economic progress, thrusting the world back into pre-Keynesian economic darkness.

Luddites

OK. For the sake of the conversation let's assume I'm someone with the power of Mario Draghi.

-How fair is it that I can (literally) sign a Billion Euro check for "Friends n Family" and have no excuses to give to anyone?
-How fair is it that someone like me decides that a Continent's citizens are obliged to pay for MY check via their tax system?
-How fair is that someone like me decides to buy out any Mass Media in the continent to chirp whatever music I like to hear?

-How fair is it that some humans are born with good looks while others with congenital diseases?
-How fair is it that some humans are born rich and don't need to work a day in their lives, while others starve?
-Fair.  You earthlings crack Us up.



  ~Your Beneficent Reptilian Overlords.

You could just admit you don't give a rat's ass about bitcoin and you're just here to challenge our mentality. Well. Bad news for you. Most of us are (DNA wise) 98.1% MONKEYS! Some of us are prettier. Some others like to step on lizards. Get out as soon as nobody like him steps on you:


Your average monkey.

[NotLambchop]

debt is good?
dear keynesians, this only would have worked if central banks could not print fiat out of thin air to lend it with interest to the government.

how often did the US has to change their debt ceiling in the last 3-4 years?
and its not only a US problem, pretty much every industry nation is nearing a debt crisis, which gonna explode sooner or later under their butt.

So every industrialized nation in the world is stupid and don't know The Truth about economics that you and some of your crustier friends do.
I suggest you start calling world leaders and educating them, it looks as if without your help, the world is heading for Armageddon.



P.S:  In the meantime, that rally sorta stopped rallying a while back
P.P.S:  Maybe you can just email world leaders with YouTube links to "Money As Debt"?  Sound like a plan?

[macsga]

debt is good?
dear keynesians, this only would have worked if central banks could not print fiat out of thin air to lend it with interest to the government.

how often did the US has to change their debt ceiling in the last 3-4 years?
and its not only a US problem, pretty much every industry nation is nearing a debt crisis, which gonna explode sooner or later under their butt.

So every industrialized nation in the world is stupid and don't know The Truth about economics that you and some of your crustier friends do.
I suggest you start calling world leaders and educating them, it looks as if without your help, the world is heading for Armageddon.



P.S:  In the meantime, that rally sorta stopped rallying a while back
P.P.S:  Maybe you can just email world leaders with YouTube links to "Money As Debt"?  Sounds like a plan?

It will resume back, don't worry too much. 

Good night from Delta Centauri

[Wekkel]

debt is good?
dear keynesians, this only would have worked if central banks could not print fiat out of thin air to lend it with interest to the government.

how often did the US has to change their debt ceiling in the last 3-4 years?
and its not only a US problem, pretty much every industry nation is nearing a debt crisis, which gonna explode sooner or later under their butt.

So every industrialized nation in the world is stupid and don't know The Truth about economics that you and some of your crustier friends do.
I suggest you start calling world leaders and educating them, it looks as if without your help, the world is heading for Armageddon.



P.S:  In the meantime, that rally sorta stopped rallying a while back
P.P.S:  Maybe you can just email world leaders with YouTube links to "Money As Debt"?  Sounds like a plan?

Burying your head in the sand won't make the problem go away.

[criptix]

http://www.nationaldebtclocks.org/debtclock/unitedstates


Debt as % of GDP:

103.56%




Interesting Facts

    You could wrap $1 bills around the Earth 69,719 times with the debt amount!

    If you lay $1 bills on top of each other they would make a pile 1,955,980 km, or 1,215,389 miles high!

    That's equivalent to 5.09 trips to the Moon!




yeah to the moon 

[hdbuck]

^^^ +1000 thx for this

[NotLambchop]

http://www.nationaldebtclocks.org/debtclock/unitedstates


Debt as % of GDP:

103.56%
[blank lines redacted]
Interesting Facts
    You could wrap $1 bills around the Earth 69,719 times with the debt amount!
    If you lay $1 bills on top of each other they would make a pile 1,955,980 km, or 1,215,389 miles high!
    That's equivalent to 5.09 trips to the Moon!
[blank lines redacted]yeah to the moon  

Interesting fact:  Those debts you're talking about?  They're owed in $$$.  We make $$$ out of thin air because fiat.  We don't even need to print them.
Not a problem

[NotLambchop]

debt is good?
dear keynesians, this only would have worked if central banks could not print fiat out of thin air to lend it with interest to the government.

how often did the US has to change their debt ceiling in the last 3-4 years?
and its not only a US problem, pretty much every industry nation is nearing a debt crisis, which gonna explode sooner or later under their butt.

So every industrialized nation in the world is stupid and don't know The Truth about economics that you and some of your crustier friends do.
I suggest you start calling world leaders and educating them, it looks as if without your help, the world is heading for Armageddon.



P.S:  In the meantime, that rally sorta stopped rallying a while back
P.P.S:  Maybe you can just email world leaders with YouTube links to "Money As Debt"?  Sounds like a plan?

Burying your head in the sand won't make the problem go away.

Laughing at the lunatic fringe is called normalcy, not "burry[ing] your head in the sand."

[prophetx]

careful NotLambTroll will troll his way into your hearts with those little pink ponies (bit creepy no?)

Definitely......

Is that Peter Todd?

haha... no,  but striking resemblance

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation