Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[billyjoeallen]

...
On the contrary, Good Professor. It's Statist who conflate "regulated" with "state-regulated". Regulation is too important to be left to governments. It's in the economic best interest of industries to self-regulate when they are not tempted to externalize costs with the help of the State.

And the difference between "no regulation" and "self-regulation" is?

Underwriter Laboratories is a good example. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UL_%28safety_organization%29 Industries are incentivized to adopt standard best practices.

I asked for the difference between self-regulation and no regulation.
You gave me a link to this:
"UL is one of several companies approved to perform safety testing by the US federal agency Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA)."
I'd like an answer, not a non-sequitur.

In your factory fire example, you need to understand that employers face competition for labor the same way workers face competition for jobs. A worker would choose to work in a safe workplace, all things else being equal. Farmers were maiming themselves with their own machinery in their own fields at the same time, but no government rescue there. Why? Because maybe a factory fire makes a good story. You need a bad guy for conflict and drama. To argue that workplace safety is a constant tension between higher productivity and safety until new practices and technology ratchet the standards higher is kind of boring.

[NotLambchop]

...
What we have now, is that the decision to save, to invest, or to consume is taken away from the citizens, because the masters think that they can decide better (And the sheep does not see what is happening).

Re: 6 new railways in China, Ghost cities, Olympic stadiums, bridges to nowhere.

[FNG]

I heard SR2 is closed

Byebye Bitcoin

Ah the old Silk Road closure time to have a massive rally signal.

Buckle up boys. The publicity coupled with the fact that SR1 didn't kill us....moon

 

[Erdogan]

I assume that 95-99% of this forum would not have heard of bitcoin if the emission would have been infinite from the beginning. satoshis incentive design for bitcoin is from an economics perspective the schumpeterian wet dream for raising awareness for an invention.

For all I know, computer types were first attracted to bitcoin for the pleasure of helping to test a smart solution to an old technical problem.  Then libertarians got interested because they saw in bitcoin a way to build an economy independent of  government and banks.  Then drug users and sellers adopted it as a way to pay for drugs without the DEA knowledge (so they thought).  At some point, others noticed the value going up like crazy, and bought into it as a get-filthy-rich-quick scheme.

I suspect that a majority of the people in this forum are from the latter group.  The finite supply of bitcoins is important only for that group, because it is part of the argument that "proves" that the price will be astronomical one day.  But it is not essential, even to them; that argument would have been only a little less convincing if the supply was programmed to increase 5%/year, forever.  So much so, that they are not bothered by the current 5-10% inflation rate.

YOU ARE CORRECT

That is all you know, despite everyone pouring knowledge and superior understandings unto your black hole of an existence.

Now can everyone stop feeding this cunt please?

+1

[hyphymikey]

Another weekly pump to pick up some shorts, back down we go

[Thomas-s]

Remember last time when SR got busted? 

[ssmc2]

If they would hurry up and release coin confiscation info we can get moving.

[Erdogan]

... (Otherwise he could have pre-mined a few thousand blocks in advance, in secret, and use them later to steal other people's bitcoins.) ...

hhmmm? and how on Earth would he do that ?

He posts the genesis block of the secret chain, without the headline, mines a million bitcoins, and spends them all to buy a pizza and a coke.  The pizza parlor waits, say, six confirmations before delivering the pizza.  At that time the chain is N blocks long.  Then he posts the first N+1 blocks of the secret blockchain, according to which his million coins were not paid to the parlor, but just moved to another address of his own.  This chain is adopted by the network, since it is one block longer than the legitimate one.  Now he has a pizza and a coke, and still has all of his million bitcoins; whereas the parlor's address is now  empty.

That is an altcoin.

[Erdogan]

... (Otherwise he could have pre-mined a few thousand blocks in advance, in secret, and use them later to steal other people's bitcoins.) ...

hhmmm? and how on Earth would he do that ?

He posts the genesis block of the secret chain, without the headline, mines a million bitcoins, and spends them all to buy a pizza and a coke.  The pizza parlor waits, say, six confirmations before delivering the pizza.  At that time the chain is N blocks long.  Then he posts the first N+1 blocks of the secret blockchain, according to which his million coins were not paid to the parlor, but just moved to another address of his own.  This chain is adopted by the network, since it is one block longer than the legitimate one.  Now he has a pizza and a coke, and still has all of his million bitcoins; whereas the parlor's address is now  empty.

You realize that

1- after 6 confirmations, the pizza is cold

2- after 6 confirmations from other parties, your precious premined blocks are useless and won't be accepted anymore by the blockchain, never, ever ? Unless you're trying to say that he would make some sort of 51% attack forcing his blocks in the chain, publicly ruining the whole project for the gain of a pizza ...

3 - at the end of the blockchain, everyone here is dead. (Keynes).

[NotLambchop]

...
On the contrary, Good Professor. It's Statist who conflate "regulated" with "state-regulated". Regulation is too important to be left to governments. It's in the economic best interest of industries to self-regulate when they are not tempted to externalize costs with the help of the State.

And the difference between "no regulation" and "self-regulation" is?

Underwriter Laboratories is a good example. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UL_%28safety_organization%29 Industries are incentivized to adopt standard best practices.

I asked for the difference between self-regulation and no regulation.
You gave me a link to this:
"UL is one of several companies approved to perform safety testing by the US federal agency Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA)."
I'd like an answer, not a non-sequitur.

In your factory fire example, you need to understand that employers face competition for labor the same way workers face competition for jobs. A worker would choose to work in a safe workplace, all things else being equal. Farmers were maiming themselves with their own machinery in their own fields at the same time, but no government rescue there. Why? Because maybe a factory fire makes a good story. You need a bad guy for conflict and drama. To argue that workplace safety is a constant tension between higher productivity and safety until new practices and technology ratchet the standards higher is kind of boring.

Yes, hungry girls will work unsafe, degrading jobs because need trumps everything else.  What point are you trying to make?  That we should return to the Triangle Shirtwaist Factory days?  Sweatshops?  Child labor?  
Or are you asking for greater regulation of farm equipment safety?

[FNG]

Another weekly pump to pick up some shorts, back down we go

Not this time.

Shorts getting overly greedy.

EOY rally time. May not be as epic as last year but we're going to rise on a much more distributed base

[buddhamangler]

Oh look. Already a new wall at 350. Because no matter what we just have to go down. That apparently is the only thing that counts for traders. We just must go down. No other option. Down down down. Only way to make money.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCe6e23yIT8
 

Why do you care so much? We'll be up again, sooner or later.

Maybe because we've been going down for a year and i'm tired of it?
Every single rally gets almost instantly stopped with dumps and walls. Every single one of them.
The buying will stop one day. It really will. One day everyone will be like fuck this thing and move on.
Traders don't seem to understand this or simply don't care.

No this will not happen.  I share your frustration, but its just something we longs have to endure, remember there is no easy path.  Look at this rally for instance, this is actually unprecedented (over the last 6 months).  It has been dumped on, but it's the shorts who have thrown in the towel mostly.  A phenomenon not seen in many many months.

[noobtrader]

wow... we are now at anger or depression  

but looking at bitfinex graph we are at depression. and according to the plan we should rally to 500-600 and then back to bubble cycle

[Erdogan]

http://www.cityam.com/1415215686/bitcoin-bust-why-investors-should-abandon-doomed-cryptocurrency

   

There's no such thing as a "natural monopoly". Monopolies were created by governments and do not arise in the free market absent government intervention. One of the things I love about Bitcoin is how it validates Austrian Economic theory to the consternation of more conventional economic theorists. Look, even electric companies face competition, even when there are no economies of scale to run redundant power lines. There is alternative forms of power generation and substitutes. So it is not just direct or even indirect competition that restrains dominant market players but just the threat of potential competition.

What happens is that the moment a dominant market players begins to charge higher than free market prices, the competitors begin to come online. You can be the 800 pound gorilla in the room only as long as you act like you are not one.

To spell that out:

4 big miners is not a monopoly, as long as everyone is free to mine.
3 big miners is not a monopoly, as long as everyone is free to mine.
2 big miners is not a monopoly, as long as everyone is free to mine.
1 gigantic miner is not a monopoly, as long as everyone is free to mine.

1000 miners is a monopoly, if some dominator outlaws mining and gives privileges to those 1000 miners.

[stereotype]

Another weekly pump to pick up some shorts, back down we go

Not this time.

Shorts getting overly greedy.

EOY rally time. May not be as epic as last year but we're going to rise on a much more distributed base

http://bfxdata.com/swaphistory/totals.php

[Thomas-s]

wow... we are now at anger or depression  

but looking at bitfinex graph we are at depression. and according to the plan we should rally to 500-600 and then back to bubble cycle

Anger.
Depression comes later after this pump.

[noobtrader]

wow... we are now at anger or depression  

but looking at bitfinex graph we are at depression. and according to the plan we should rally to 500-600 and then back to bubble cycle

Anger.
Depression comes later after this pump.

https://bitcoinwisdom.com/markets/bitfinex/btcusd

but if you look at finex graph, 1d interval. you will see that we are at depression... its so similiar graph

[findftp]

2- after 6 confirmations from other parties, your precious premined blocks are useless and won't be accepted anymore by the blockchain, never, ever ? Unless you're trying to say that he would make some sort of 51% attack forcing his blocks in the chain, publicly ruining the whole project for the gain of a pizza ...

That is what I meant.  By mining in secret before publishing the genesis block, he could later post a longer blockchain and invalidate all transactions up to that point, even those in the second block.

It is equivalent to a 51% attack, but limited to the first few weeks or months.  (An entity with 51% of the total hashrate could pull the same trick starting at any block, since it could grow an alternative blockhain from that block faster than the rest of the network, and then their doctored chain would prevail on the legitimate one.)

Without the headline in the genesis block, the other collaborators would have to trust him -- namely, that he cared more about an experiment (that he just started) than about a pizza.   But the whole point of bitcoin is that one is supposed to trust the system without having to trust any authority, including Satoshi.

The problem in this statement is that you dare to dispute the godlike status of Satoshi.
How dare you.

And even if you were right, the earthlings community would figure a way around this problem if it would pop up.

[macsga]

But dig a bit HUGE further downUP, and...  Nah YEAH!!! .  Keep hatin' on your gubermints, earthlings.TO DA MOON!!!1



  ~Your Beneficent DEAD Reptilian Overlords MEAT.

FTFY!

CCMF!!!!!1

[Erdogan]

...
On the contrary, Good Professor. It's Statist who conflate "regulated" with "state-regulated". Regulation is too important to be left to governments. It's in the economic best interest of industries to self-regulate when they are not tempted to externalize costs with the help of the State.

And the difference between "no regulation" and "self-regulation" is?

Underwriter Laboratories is a good example. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UL_%28safety_organization%29 Industries are incentivized to adopt standard best practices.

I asked for the difference between self-regulation and no regulation.
You gave me a link to this:
"UL is one of several companies approved to perform safety testing by the US federal agency Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA)."
I'd like an answer, not a non-sequitur.

In your factory fire example, you need to understand that employers face competition for labor the same way workers face competition for jobs. A worker would choose to work in a safe workplace, all things else being equal. Farmers were maiming themselves with their own machinery in their own fields at the same time, but no government rescue there. Why? Because maybe a factory fire makes a good story. You need a bad guy for conflict and drama. To argue that workplace safety is a constant tension between higher productivity and safety until new practices and technology ratchet the standards higher is kind of boring.

Yes, hungry girls will work unsafe, degrading jobs because need trumps everything else.  What point are you trying to make?  That we should return to the Triangle Shirtwaist Factory days?  Sweatshops?  Child labor?  
Or are you asking for greater regulation of farm equipment safety?

Self regulation is a standard, set by producers, maybe in the form of a free association, where each producer can freely choose to follow the standard or not. Self regulation sometimes succeeds in producing good quality products or products that interoperate well, because the customers in the market want it, too, thereby expanding the market.