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Author Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion  (Read 26403976 times)
This is a self-moderated topic. If you do not want to be moderated by the person who started this topic, create a new topic. (174 posts by 3 users with 9 merit deleted.)
gentlemand
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May 28, 2015, 05:25:54 PM

So, the NY bit license should come tomorrow. Then what? (Yes, speculate wildly please!)

Whoever wants one needs to dick around for several weeks/ months until they're awarded one.

Maybe it'll prompt a fresh wave of companies who've been holding back until then. Like almost all the good news it's long term baby steps rather than immediately explosive.  
Fatman3001
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May 28, 2015, 05:32:35 PM

If anyone wants to swim in stupidity then this article should fit the bill:

http://www.coindesk.com/think-tank-debate-bitcoin-mining-environment/

Think Tank is a bit of an oxymoron in this case. Filled with morons.
kaykawa
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May 28, 2015, 05:35:58 PM

the one circumstance that has slowed BTC down is the transfer of fiat paper to get to the coin; now that various exchanges can link bank accounts to the BTC, the MP's are now admitting their love affair with crypto.
 Wink
Natalia_AnatolioPAMM
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May 28, 2015, 05:56:16 PM

Good morning Bitcoinland.

Still going sideways.

Yawn.


still and always
ChartBuddy
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May 28, 2015, 05:57:41 PM

Coin
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hdbuck
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May 28, 2015, 05:59:46 PM

If anyone wants to swim in stupidity then this article should fit the bill:

http://www.coindesk.com/think-tank-debate-bitcoin-mining-environment/

Think Tank is a bit of an oxymoron in this case. Filled with morons.

Norway
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May 28, 2015, 06:04:08 PM

If anyone wants to swim in stupidity then this article should fit the bill:

http://www.coindesk.com/think-tank-debate-bitcoin-mining-environment/

Think Tank is a bit of an oxymoron in this case. Filled with morons.

Aha! Bitcoin isn't tanking. It's think tanking!
JorgeStolfi
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May 28, 2015, 06:09:11 PM

This is an extraordinary Tweet from Andreas M Antonopoulos:
Governments try to ban bitcoin? LOL
The image below includes a signed bitcoin transaction transferring $12m USD.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CGDHoYiU0AEQXze.jpg

Sure, a government cannot easily prevent its citizens from issuing transactions.  But why should it?

Typically the goals of a government will be to prevent its citizens from bringing certain items into the country (like drugs or weapons), take other items out (like national heritage artifacts, gold, diamonds), being bribed or financed by foreign corporations or governments, and giving the national currency to foreigners. 

The first two are physical border and mail policing problems that do not depend on how the item was paid.  (Importers of illegal items are generally nabbed when they receive or try to colelct them.) 

The other two uses are partially caught when the citizen tries to spend the bitcoins locally, or convert them to cash. So they can be curbed by closing local bitcoin exchanges or imposing strict AML/KYC measures on them, control of bank accounts, banning bitcoin from e-commerce and large property sales (vehicles, real estate, etc.)  Which is pretty much what China did.

The only remaining use of bitcoins that a government may be unhappy about is corrupt officials and subversives being paid in bitcoin but saving them until a later time, when they leave the country.  But, in that case, a bitcoin bribe is no different than a dollar bribe deposited in a foreign bank, in the guy's name.

Bitcoin is often claimed to be a way to take one's wealth out of a county, bypassing the government's currency controls.  But while it works for the individual, its effect on the country's economy is quite different from the usual ways of "taking one's wealth out".

The usual ways are taking valuable propery (gold, antiquities,etc.) out, and/or selling local property (cars, real estate) for foreign currency to buyers abroad, and/or exchanging the national currency for some foreign currency, either before or after moving out.  The the currency exchange route ends placing some of the national currency in the hands of foreigners.  Either way the country gets poorer, which is why governments often try to limit such transactions.

The situation is different when the citizen uses bitcoin to "take his wealth out".  If he already had bitcoins, it is like him having euros or dollars in a bank account in Switzerland; the money was already out of the country to begin with.  If he exchanges his local currency and/or concrete wealth for bitcoins in the local market, these items will pass to other citizens: the country will not get poorer, and the average citizen will get slightly richer.  (It is the Americans who will become slightly poorer when he moves to the US and starts spending his bitcoins.)
empowering
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May 28, 2015, 06:11:51 PM

Good morning Bitcoinland.

Still going sideways.

Yawn.


still and always

Which is literally the only thing it will not do.

Good one.
gizmoh
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May 28, 2015, 06:25:58 PM

Is The Price Of Bitcoin Going To Bounce Back?

http://www.forbes.com/sites/quora/2015/05/28/is-the-price-of-bitcoin-going-to-bounce-back/


Quote
but I am very comfortable being long on bitcoin, and I’m going to remain so.

ForbesMagazine of billionaires confirming imminence of New uptrend!
ChartBuddy
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May 28, 2015, 06:57:51 PM

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macsga
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May 28, 2015, 07:04:45 PM

Sure, a government cannot easily prevent its citizens from issuing transactions.  But why should it?
Typically the goals of a government will be to prevent its citizens from bringing certain items into the country (like drugs or weapons), take other items out (like national heritage artifacts, gold, diamonds), being bribed or financed by foreign corporations or governments, and giving the national currency to foreigners. 

Sure, each government would like to keep the monopoly for their own profit; makes perfect sense! Smiley

The first two are physical border and mail policing problems that do not depend on how the item was paid.  (Importers of illegal items are generally nabbed when they receive or try to colelct them.) 
The other two uses are partially caught when the citizen tries to spend the bitcoins locally, or convert them to cash. So they can be curbed by closing local bitcoin exchanges or imposing strict AML/KYC measures on them, control of bank accounts, banning bitcoin from e-commerce and large property sales (vehicles, real estate, etc.)  Which is pretty much what China did.

Well; not really. China just made a couple of moves that seriously disrupted the BTC price (but at the same time, no one can say for sure if their acts were the actual reason). The incentive could be a whole lot different though... I guess we will know within the next decade if you're right or not.

The only remaining use of bitcoins that a government may be unhappy about is corrupt officials and subversives being paid in bitcoin but saving them until a later time, when they leave the country.  But, in that case, a bitcoin bribe is no different than a dollar bribe deposited in a foreign bank, in the guy's name.
Bitcoin is often claimed to be a way to take one's wealth out of a county, bypassing the government's currency controls.  But while it works for the individual, its effect on the country's economy is quite different from the usual ways of "taking one's wealth out".

Unhappy? I beg your pardon Jorge; this is how the governmental machine rolls! Bitcoin / Moneroj / Fiat / Diamonds or PM, the spice should always flow. Or else!

The usual ways are taking valuable propery (gold, antiquities,etc.) out, and/or selling local property (cars, real estate) for foreign currency to buyers abroad, and/or exchanging the national currency for some foreign currency, either before or after moving out.  The the currency exchange route ends placing some of the national currency in the hands of foreigners.  Either way the country gets poorer, which is why governments often try to limit such transactions.

The situation is different when the citizen uses bitcoin to "take his wealth out".  If he already had bitcoins, it is like him having euros or dollars in a bank account in Switzerland; the money was already out of the country to begin with.  If he exchanges his local currency and/or concrete wealth for bitcoins in the local market, these items will pass to other citizens: the country will not get poorer, and the average citizen will get slightly richer.  (It is the Americans who will become slightly poorer when he moves to the US and starts spending his bitcoins.)

This sounds like a plan; funny that almost the same thing has been proposed by Yianis Varoufakis as an antidote to the Greek economic disease - in the midst of his contradictory beliefs about "the usage of BTC as a currency is a totally flawed idea" to begin with. Nevertheless; there's a funny coincidence here, which I don't find particularly random... Wink
JorgeStolfi
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May 28, 2015, 07:16:45 PM

This sounds like a plan; funny that almost the same thing has been proposed by Yianis Varoufakis as an antidote to the Greek economic disease - in the midst of his contradictory beliefs about "the usage of BTC as a currency is a totally flawed idea" to begin with. Nevertheless; there's a funny coincidence here, which I don't find particularly random... Wink

Damn! I thought that I could continue freely bullshitting about bitcoin and Merkle chains through this sockpuppet while wrestling with Merkel under my Ministerially respectable true identity.  Oh well...
macsga
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May 28, 2015, 07:24:01 PM

This sounds like a plan; funny that almost the same thing has been proposed by Yianis Varoufakis as an antidote to the Greek economic disease - in the midst of his contradictory beliefs about "the usage of BTC as a currency is a totally flawed idea" to begin with. Nevertheless; there's a funny coincidence here, which I don't find particularly random... Wink

Damn! I thought that I could continue freely bullshitting about bitcoin and Merkle chains through this sockpuppet while wrestling with Merkel under my Ministerially respectable true identity.  Oh well...

This is what I'd call "official, academic, quality trolling"  Grin

Cheers!
ChartBuddy
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May 28, 2015, 07:57:36 PM

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dakota neat
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May 28, 2015, 08:07:46 PM

the altcoin bear market seems to be over. if that trend holds i would count it as bullish indicator for btc as well. at least people need btc to buy alts, don't they?  Smiley
Fatman3001
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May 28, 2015, 08:10:16 PM
Last edit: May 28, 2015, 08:21:31 PM by Fatman3001

Android copying the masters again

http://www.wired.com/2015/05/google-mimics-apple-android-pay/

But if this holds true there might be something in it for bitcoin as well

https://bitcoinmagazine.com/19473/will-googles-android-pay-support-bitcoin/

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2xp9r2/android_pay_was_confirmed_today_and_it_sounds/
Norway
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May 28, 2015, 08:34:54 PM

Apple pay make shops install NFC terminals. I assume Android Pay will do the same. This is good for bitcoin  Wink
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May 28, 2015, 08:39:31 PM

Apple pay make shops install NFC terminals. I assume Android Pay will do the same. This is good for bitcoin  Wink

Only good if Android Pay will support bitcoin, correct ?
Wandererfromthenorth
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May 28, 2015, 08:48:32 PM


Aside from your stance on the matter (ie: being a bear concerning BTC) or if you think it's sane to express such an opinion (ie: define post-apocalyptic - how apocalyptic in a scale from 1-10?) I'd say that this statement is rather bold. For instance: Has anyone got the ability to foresee the future after an economic meltdown? Would the internet matter? Will it be there at all? Will people be here in the first place? Will they need guns to enforce their peace?

I'd say that there are quite too many things to worry about after such an event will happen, to just worry about if you can buy food via a usb stick or using USD/EUR. About 90% of the people out there do not understand that food doesn't grow on refrigerators located in Wallmart, nor they are in position (or do have the knowledge) to perform basic agricultural jobs. Moreover, certain laws have already prevented individuals to even keep a goat or chicken within his/her house without permission. Not to mention collecting rain water could drive you to prison if you live in the US. (http://www.naturalnews.com/029286_rainwater_collection_water.html)

Post apocalyptic? You realize that there's a strong possibility this is happening right now, right?
I think you're taking the tweet a little bit too seriously  Grin

The "post-apocalyptic wasteland" is a joke, he was probably referring to the fact that some bitcoiners hope for a total collapse of the dollar, of the stock market, of fiat in general and think that everybody would suddenly buy a ultravolatile, ultrarisky, not-really-scalable experimental virtual version of gold as a consequence  Grin

If the fiat system collapses, BTC will be the last thing people are gonna think of. If BTC is ever gonna survive and succeed, it's definitely not as a replacement of fiat, that's just delusional r/bitcoin stuff.
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