Bitcoin Forum
May 04, 2024, 07:54:16 PM *
News: Latest Bitcoin Core release: 27.0 [Torrent]
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register More  
Poll
Question: What happens first:
New ATH - 43 (69.4%)
<$60,000 - 19 (30.6%)
Total Voters: 62

Pages: « 1 ... 13901 13902 13903 13904 13905 13906 13907 13908 13909 13910 13911 13912 13913 13914 13915 13916 13917 13918 13919 13920 13921 13922 13923 13924 13925 13926 13927 13928 13929 13930 13931 13932 13933 13934 13935 13936 13937 13938 13939 13940 13941 13942 13943 13944 13945 13946 13947 13948 13949 13950 [13951] 13952 13953 13954 13955 13956 13957 13958 13959 13960 13961 13962 13963 13964 13965 13966 13967 13968 13969 13970 13971 13972 13973 13974 13975 13976 13977 13978 13979 13980 13981 13982 13983 13984 13985 13986 13987 13988 13989 13990 13991 13992 13993 13994 13995 13996 13997 13998 13999 14000 14001 ... 33322 »
  Print  
Author Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion  (Read 26372076 times)
This is a self-moderated topic. If you do not want to be moderated by the person who started this topic, create a new topic. (174 posts by 3 users with 9 merit deleted.)
simmo77
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 373
Merit: 250



View Profile
November 18, 2015, 10:17:42 AM




We've come a long way...
"There should not be any signed int. If you've found a signed int somewhere, please tell me (within the next 25 years please) and I'll change it to unsigned int." -- Satoshi
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction.
1714852456
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1714852456

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1714852456
Reply with quote  #2

1714852456
Report to moderator
1714852456
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1714852456

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1714852456
Reply with quote  #2

1714852456
Report to moderator
1714852456
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1714852456

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1714852456
Reply with quote  #2

1714852456
Report to moderator
hdbuck
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1260
Merit: 1002



View Profile
November 18, 2015, 10:21:52 AM


lol, and god knows how she's been stuffed too.
Eric Cartman
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 741
Merit: 500

CryptoTalk.Org - Get Paid for every Post!


View Profile
November 18, 2015, 10:38:04 AM

What will be the next movie in this weekend?
ChartBuddy
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2170
Merit: 1776


1CBuddyxy4FerT3hzMmi1Jz48ESzRw1ZzZ


View Profile
November 18, 2015, 11:01:22 AM

Coin



Explanation
BitofaN1
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 177
Merit: 100


View Profile
November 18, 2015, 11:21:33 AM

What will be the next movie in this weekend?
TReano
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 448
Merit: 256



View Profile
November 18, 2015, 11:35:46 AM

short short short!
ChartBuddy
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2170
Merit: 1776


1CBuddyxy4FerT3hzMmi1Jz48ESzRw1ZzZ


View Profile
November 18, 2015, 12:01:17 PM

Coin



Explanation
ChartBuddy
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2170
Merit: 1776


1CBuddyxy4FerT3hzMmi1Jz48ESzRw1ZzZ


View Profile
November 18, 2015, 01:01:17 PM

Coin



Explanation
ChartBuddy
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2170
Merit: 1776


1CBuddyxy4FerT3hzMmi1Jz48ESzRw1ZzZ


View Profile
November 18, 2015, 02:01:18 PM

Coin



Explanation
noobtrader
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1456
Merit: 1000



View Profile
November 18, 2015, 02:04:28 PM

What will be the next movie in this weekend?



makeacake
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 42
Merit: 0


View Profile
November 18, 2015, 02:25:02 PM

https://jrfibonacci.files.wordpress.com/2015/01/imagesbison-over-cliff-small1.jpg
Much sad Cry
GGALINff
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 219
Merit: 100


View Profile
November 18, 2015, 02:37:44 PM

slooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oow day


again
aztecminer
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1092
Merit: 1000



View Profile
November 18, 2015, 02:42:37 PM

slooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oow day


again



kenji
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 448
Merit: 251



View Profile
November 18, 2015, 02:44:10 PM

we are still above $300, i think this is very bullish Cool
Feri22
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 748
Merit: 500


View Profile
November 18, 2015, 02:49:26 PM

Boooooooriiiiing
ChartBuddy
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2170
Merit: 1776


1CBuddyxy4FerT3hzMmi1Jz48ESzRw1ZzZ


View Profile
November 18, 2015, 03:01:21 PM

Coin



Explanation
JorgeStolfi
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 910
Merit: 1003



View Profile
November 18, 2015, 03:06:37 PM

Yet racism continues to be deeply rooted in the "standard American mindset", as betrayed by the "race" field in forms. [ ... ]  Humans in isolation are not racist.  Children are not racist.  Many "savage" tribes, while strongly "nationalistic", are not racist, and often practice exogamic (inter-tribal) marriages as a rule.  Racial segregation is always a social phenomenon, imposed by society whenever two or more groups of people are competing for power or resources.  Biological differences, liek skin color, are then only a pretext -- a convenient label used by oppressors to keep the oppressed in teir place and deny them whatever is the real object of dispute,

Not the american mindset, the human mindset. Humans will always find differences between groups and go to war over them. Even in african countries, where everyone is the same to our eyes, neighboring villages will fight eachother over perceived differences. It's just a basic part of human nature. Or look at Japan before the black ships arrived. Fact is humans need enemies to fight, and we will always find them.

My point is that groups do not oppress/discriminate/fight other groups because of biological differences, or even cultural differences (religious, linguistic, dress, etc.).  The motivation is always economic or political.  Those differences are just convenient criteria that the upper group adopts to draw a sharp line between "us" and "them".   Biological differences, when they exist, are "better" for that purpose than cultural ones, because "they" may change their customs and religion, and quickly learn "our" language; but "they" cannot change their skin color, and their children will inherit it.  

That is also the reason why racists do not recognize gradations, or put all "mixed race" as a single separate race. Social discrimination is by necessity a binary thing: either "they" are allowed to attend medical school, own land, live in this neighborhood, hold political office, etc. -- or they aren't. There is no useful middle ground in discrimination, so when race is used as a basis for it, it has to be a discrete classification, not a continuum.

"Race" comprehends three concepts: bio-genomic clusters commonality, biological race and social race.  [ ... ] Race in biology means a group within a species so different from the rest that it's on a definite path towards the constitution of a new species. In this sense there are no subspecies races among humans.

Real biologists do not use the term "race" because the concept is bullshit.  They use "sub-species", but, as you wrote, it applies to populations that are biologically able to interbreed, but have different gene frequencies because they have been kept separate by geography or other reasons (such as disjoint flowering times).  When the obstacle disappears, subspecies usually mix and the distinction disappears.

Indeed, natural evolution invented sex even before it invented legs or brains -- because it found that mixing genes is good for life in general.  By nature, individuals generally have a drive to pick prtners for "DNA mixing" outside their group, as long as the genetic differences are small enough to allow it.  Avoidance of other "races" is always a social imposition.

No human population has been isolated long enough to make cross-breeding impossible.  The Australian aborigines and the Andaman Negritos, who may be the extreme branches, have split out from the trunk less than 100'000 years ago.    Even the Neanderthals are now known to have interbred with "modern man" ("Cro-Magnons") in Europe and elsewhere.  

For as far back as we can tell, entire nations have migrated by thousands of kilometres in a few generations, because of war, climate changes, population pressure, hunting opportunities, etc..  Mountains, rivers, glaciers, deserts, even open oceans were never hard barriers to human movement. Humans are very mobile, so genetic flow between populations has never been zero.

Moreover, each gene spreads, mutates, and is selected for mostly independently of other genes; so there is no single gene, or even a gene combination, that could be used to distinguish the so-called "races".   A single individual who moves from one population to another will inject his genes into the latter's gene pool, and any of his genes can spread to the whole population, just by random genetic drift, over the span of a few centuries.  So, even if there are environmental or social factors that make dark skin (say) disadvantageous, that trait may quickly disappear, while other genes that came "in the same boat" with dark ski will persist and spread.

A sobering exercise, that underscores how silly the notion of "race" is, is to compute how many ancestors you had by the year 1000 CE.   Any one of your genes may or may not have been inherited from any one of those ancestors.  How can you tell that none of them were from "race X"?

Why are you so sure? Are you scientist that specializes in this area? If not, how do you know? From scientists? How do you know what they think?

Well, I have read a cubic meter of Scientific American and half a cubic meter of Science (which is the second most prestigious journal for biology, after Nature), mostly cover-to-cover; and some books on human genetics, like Cavalli-Sforza's.  I have dabbed in computational biology and even published a some minor things on that subject.  Yes, I think I can tell with sufficient authority what scientists think about the concept of "race".  

Quote
Let's imagine for a second that you are a scientist and you think that there is some validity to this idea. Would you announce this thought in public? To become a racist in the eyes of this public? If you plan a research in this area, which evidences would you look for - for and against this idea? What would you prefer - to receive a grant or to become a target for witch-hunt?  So the honest answer to the question "is there any scientific validity to the idea of different human races" should be: We don't know because unbiased research in this area is politically impossible.

That is not a strong enough reason to explain why scientists reject the concept of race.  There have been many "scientists" and even real scientists in the past who have openly held racist views, and even got praise and money for that.  Around the 1930, Stanford was sort of a center for that sort of thing.  (I recall that in the 1980s, William Shockeley -- one of the inventors of the transistor -- was at Stanford, and was an outspoken believer in races.)

But, curiously, the belief in "race" seems to have been stronger among scientists from other fields than among geneticists.  Even before the genetic code was deciphered, geneticists could not ignore the complexity of actual gene distributions, that had little correlation with racial boundaries.  Now that we can read the genome, the absurdity of the concept is obvious even to non-geneticists.

Ancient astronomers assumed that the stars were located on a sphere centered on the Earth; so they though that the apparent groupings of stars on the sky were all important, especially those across the ecliptic that were "visited" by the Sun, Moon, and planets.  Astrologers built a complicated intellectual edifice on top of them. But once astronomers determined the true distances to the stars, and figured out the three-dimensional "geography" of the cosmos, they realized that constellations and star magnitudes were just meaningless illusions, and astrology was total bullshit.  

Well, the concept of "race" among biologists had a somewhat similar history...  
LFC_Bitcoin
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 3528
Merit: 9544


#1 VIP Crypto Casino


View Profile
November 18, 2015, 03:14:58 PM


fortune143
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 87
Merit: 13

favours the true


View Profile
November 18, 2015, 03:33:18 PM

Yet racism continues to be deeply rooted in the "standard American mindset", as betrayed by the "race" field in forms. [ ... ]  Humans in isolation are not racist.  Children are not racist.  Many "savage" tribes, while strongly "nationalistic", are not racist, and often practice exogamic (inter-tribal) marriages as a rule.  Racial segregation is always a social phenomenon, imposed by society whenever two or more groups of people are competing for power or resources.  Biological differences, liek skin color, are then only a pretext -- a convenient label used by oppressors to keep the oppressed in teir place and deny them whatever is the real object of dispute,

Not the american mindset, the human mindset. Humans will always find differences between groups and go to war over them. Even in african countries, where everyone is the same to our eyes, neighboring villages will fight eachother over perceived differences. It's just a basic part of human nature. Or look at Japan before the black ships arrived. Fact is humans need enemies to fight, and we will always find them.

My point is that groups do not oppress/discriminate/fight other groups because of biological differences, or even cultural differences (religious, linguistic, dress, etc.).  The motivation is always economic or political.  Those differences are just convenient criteria that the upper group adopts to draw a sharp line between "us" and "them".   Biological differences, when they exist, are "better" for that purpose than cultural ones, because "they" may change their customs and religion, and quickly learn "our" language; but "they" cannot change their skin color, and their children will inherit it.  

That is also the reason why racists do not recognize gradations, or put all "mixed race" as a single separate race. Social discrimination is by necessity a binary thing: either "they" are allowed to attend medical school, own land, live in this neighborhood, hold political office, etc. -- or they aren't. There is no useful middle ground in discrimination, so when race is used as a basis for it, it has to be a discrete classification, not a continuum.

"Race" comprehends three concepts: bio-genomic clusters commonality, biological race and social race.  [ ... ] Race in biology means a group within a species so different from the rest that it's on a definite path towards the constitution of a new species. In this sense there are no subspecies races among humans.

Real biologists do not use the term "race" because the concept is bullshit.  They use "sub-species", but, as you wrote, it applies to populations that are biologically able to interbreed, but have different gene frequencies because they have been kept separate by geography or other reasons (such as disjoint flowering times).  When the obstacle disappears, subspecies usually mix and the distinction disappears.

Indeed, natural evolution invented sex even before it invented legs or brains -- because it found that mixing genes is good for life in general.  By nature, individuals generally have a drive to pick prtners for "DNA mixing" outside their group, as long as the genetic differences are small enough to allow it.  Avoidance of other "races" is always a social imposition.

No human population has been isolated long enough to make cross-breeding impossible.  The Australian aborigines and the Andaman Negritos, who may be the extreme branches, have split out from the trunk less than 100'000 years ago.    Even the Neanderthals are now known to have interbred with "modern man" ("Cro-Magnons") in Europe and elsewhere.  

For as far back as we can tell, entire nations have migrated by thousands of kilometres in a few generations, because of war, climate changes, population pressure, hunting opportunities, etc..  Mountains, rivers, glaciers, deserts, even open oceans were never hard barriers to human movement. Humans are very mobile, so genetic flow between populations has never been zero.

Moreover, each gene spreads, mutates, and is selected for mostly independently of other genes; so there is no single gene, or even a gene combination, that could be used to distinguish the so-called "races".   A single individual who moves from one population to another will inject his genes into the latter's gene pool, and any of his genes can spread to the whole population, just by random genetic drift, over the span of a few centuries.  So, even if there are environmental or social factors that make dark skin (say) disadvantageous, that trait may quickly disappear, while other genes that came "in the same boat" with dark ski will persist and spread.

A sobering exercise, that underscores how silly the notion of "race" is, is to compute how many ancestors you had by the year 1000 CE.   Any one of your genes may or may not have been inherited from any one of those ancestors.  How can you tell that none of them were from "race X"?

Why are you so sure? Are you scientist that specializes in this area? If not, how do you know? From scientists? How do you know what they think?

Well, I have read a cubic meter of Scientific American and half a cubic meter of Science (which is the second most prestigious journal for biology, after Nature), mostly cover-to-cover; and some books on human genetics, like Cavalli-Sforza's.  I have dabbed in computational biology and even published a some minor things on that subject.  Yes, I think I can tell with sufficient authority what scientists think about the concept of "race".  

Quote
Let's imagine for a second that you are a scientist and you think that there is some validity to this idea. Would you announce this thought in public? To become a racist in the eyes of this public? If you plan a research in this area, which evidences would you look for - for and against this idea? What would you prefer - to receive a grant or to become a target for witch-hunt?  So the honest answer to the question "is there any scientific validity to the idea of different human races" should be: We don't know because unbiased research in this area is politically impossible.

That is not a strong enough reason to explain why scientists reject the concept of race.  There have been many "scientists" and even real scientists in the past who have openly held racist views, and even got praise and money for that.  Around the 1930, Stanford was sort of a center for that sort of thing.  (I recall that in the 1980s, William Shockeley -- one of the inventors of the transistor -- was at Stanford, and was an outspoken believer in races.)

But, curiously, the belief in "race" seems to have been stronger among scientists from other fields than among geneticists.  Even before the genetic code was deciphered, geneticists could not ignore the complexity of actual gene distributions, that had little correlation with racial boundaries.  Now that we can read the genome, the absurdity of the concept is obvious even to non-geneticists.

Ancient astronomers assumed that the stars were located on a sphere centered on the Earth; so they though that the apparent groupings of stars on the sky were all important, especially those across the ecliptic that were "visited" by the Sun, Moon, and planets.  Astrologers built a complicated intellectual edifice on top of them. But once astronomers determined the true distances to the stars, and figured out the three-dimensional "geography" of the cosmos, they realized that constellations and star magnitudes were just meaningless illusions, and astrology was total bullshit.  

Well, the concept of "race" among biologists had a somewhat similar history...  

Wonderful brilliant post, thank you JorgeStolfi.

The fact is that genetically there can be more perceived differences within 'races than between them. The concept of race and the whole idea of racism is based entirely on falsehoods.
Divitiae miserae
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 188
Merit: 100


View Profile
November 18, 2015, 03:44:08 PM

Real biologists do not use the term "race" because the concept is bullshit.

Indeed, in fact I was considering the main possible concepts covered by the term when it is used by common people - in the end language is just a convention reinforced by usage.
Like it or not "race" will continue to be used so we'd better make distinctions according to the empirical evidence.
Pages: « 1 ... 13901 13902 13903 13904 13905 13906 13907 13908 13909 13910 13911 13912 13913 13914 13915 13916 13917 13918 13919 13920 13921 13922 13923 13924 13925 13926 13927 13928 13929 13930 13931 13932 13933 13934 13935 13936 13937 13938 13939 13940 13941 13942 13943 13944 13945 13946 13947 13948 13949 13950 [13951] 13952 13953 13954 13955 13956 13957 13958 13959 13960 13961 13962 13963 13964 13965 13966 13967 13968 13969 13970 13971 13972 13973 13974 13975 13976 13977 13978 13979 13980 13981 13982 13983 13984 13985 13986 13987 13988 13989 13990 13991 13992 13993 13994 13995 13996 13997 13998 13999 14000 14001 ... 33322 »
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!