Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[becoin]

In a "permissioned ledger" (i.e., a distributed mirrored decentralized tamper-resistant database for a closed set of non-anonymous, legally bound entities), transaction processing would be done by the member entities, for whom the service would be compensation enough; and/or by external contractors, who would get paid in dollars through banks, the old-fashioned way.

They already have what you've described. It is called SWIFT.

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[hdbuck]

Circle, Bitreserve, and BitPay are turning their backs on bitcoin

They say they are interested in the blockchain technology, but it doesn't work without tokens.

Permissioned blockchains. They'll have tokens of their own.

They don't need tokens.  The bitcoin network needs tokens in order to pay the miners, who are anonymous and scattered all over the world.  In a "permissioned ledger" (i.e., a distributed mirrored decentralized tamper-resistant database for a closed set of non-anonymous, legally bound entities), transaction processing would be done by the member entities, for whom the service would be compensation enough; and/or by external contractors, who would get paid in dollars through banks, the old-fashioned way.

Thus a "permissioned ledger" does not need tokens or proof-of-work.  It remaisn to be seen whether it will have a use for any of the other distinctive features of the Bitcoin protocol.

yea, mySQL databases don't need tokens.

[BitUsher]

yea, mySQL databases does not need tokens.

Their digital tokens will be represented in USD and Euros primarily. For the time being these provide relatively stable forms of currency with low volatility(although the euro was more volatile than bitcoin week to week for the first 2.5 months 15' when it radically dropped in value) but just make sure you spend those currencies quickly as they aren't stable long term stores of value.

I'm absolutely positive Fiat will remain dominant for certain tasks like paying taxes and bitcoin has very little chance of ever replacing that role so these currencies are not at risk of being discontinued.... although some would argue the USD has failed and been replaced 2-3 times already so it is likely to continue failing like most forms of fiat historically.

[criptix]

You people all forget that banks already have centralized databases that are superior.
They do not need permissioned ledgers ( cetralized blockchain). Wtf?

[BitUsher]

You people all forget that banks already have centralized databases that are superior.
They do not need permissioned ledgers ( cetralized blockchain). Wtf?

While this is true, the fact that they are investing in new fintech and re-evaluating processes due to bitcoin will likely lead to both some short term losses from investing in their infrastructure and long term improvements in efficiency.

Even if detractors despise bitcoin like JorgeStolfi, they should be grateful that competition has led to banks re-evaluating their inefficiencies.

[brg444]

yea, mySQL databases does not need tokens.

Their digital tokens will be represented in USD and Euros primarily. For the time being these provide relatively stable forms of currency with low volatility(although the euro was more volatile than bitcoin week to week for the first 2.5 months 15' when it radically dropped in value) but just make sure you spend those currencies quickly as they aren't stable long term stores of value.

Not quite.

Banks, so far, are not trying to digitize currencies but titles which is pretty much the difference between Bitcoin the asset and their databases.

[Dotto]

China blood transfusion in 5 hours

[BitUsher]

Not quite.

Banks, so far, are not trying to digitize currencies but titles which is pretty much the difference between Bitcoin the asset and their databases.

Fiat is already primarily (99%) represented by digital tokens with shared permission ledgers. Banks are merely being conned by developers and startups into promised efficiencies to be found with "blockchain" tech over their old permissioned ledgers or are trying to co-opt the market buzz over bitcoin.

Either way , some banks will lose alot of money and never see a return from their "blockchain" investments , others will lose a lot of money and eventually return a profit of their investments due to very slight improvements in processes, and none will be able to co-opt some of the more interesting aspects of bitcoin.

[hdbuck]

yea, mySQL databases does not need tokens.

Their digital tokens will be represented in USD and Euros primarily. For the time being these provide relatively stable forms of currency with low volatility(although the euro was more volatile than bitcoin week to week for the first 2.5 months 15' when it radically dropped in value) but just make sure you spend those currencies quickly as they aren't stable long term stores of value.

Not quite.

Banks, so far, are not trying to digitize currencies but titles which is pretty much the difference between Bitcoin the asset and their databases.

we all know their dirty secret is to ban cash and digitalize your influx so they can track tax you better.

[BitUsher]

]

we all know their dirty secret is to ban cash and digitalize your influx so they can track tax you better.

Based upon this precedent - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_6102  which is far more egregious than simply stopping printing their own virtual token I think you have a realistic fear. This is one of many reasons bitcoin will have a important future for all.

Bitcoin is Regulatory Arbitrage and no one should underestimate how important of a role that fulfills.

[brg444]

yea, mySQL databases does not need tokens.

Their digital tokens will be represented in USD and Euros primarily. For the time being these provide relatively stable forms of currency with low volatility(although the euro was more volatile than bitcoin week to week for the first 2.5 months 15' when it radically dropped in value) but just make sure you spend those currencies quickly as they aren't stable long term stores of value.

Not quite.

Banks, so far, are not trying to digitize currencies but titles which is pretty much the difference between Bitcoin the asset and their databases.

we all know their dirty secret is to ban cash and digitalize your influx so they can track tax you better.

Of course but now we have Bitcoin  

[ChartBuddy]

Coin



Explanation

[hdbuck]

]

we all know their dirty secret is to ban cash and digitalize your influx so they can track tax you better.

Based upon this precedent - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_6102  which is far more egregious than simply stopping printing their own virtual token I think you have a realistic fear. This is one of many reasons bitcoin will have a important future for all.

Bitcoin is Regulatory Arbitrage and no one should underestimate how important of a role that fulfills.

ergo good riddance ripple, hearn, bitpay, coinbase, goldmansachs... may they find whatever they seek with these private blockchains mySQL databases

Their Big Lie is that Bitcoin was created to replace commercial banking, not central banking (as if the Genesis Text was about $2 ATM fees instead of TBTF bailouts).

Brilliant observation, thank you.

It is indeed.  I personally care not one iota about replacing ATM's.  The debt-based monetary system which currently animates the entire economic state of my country is what I care about.  More specifically, the inherent life expectancy of such systems and their typical failure modes, and what it may mean to me.  Even more specifically, what evolves out of such an implosion.

It is worth note that almost without exception the efforts that Hearn and Andresen have focused on are to facilitate to enlistment of people who's interest does not go beyond the ATM/VISA/PayPal aspect of the Bitcoin monetary system.  I attribute this to a strategy which recognizes that these participants are a distinct liability to the defensibility of the ecosystem.  The demands that 'the masses' make will open many chinks in the armor.  Actually 'chinks' is an understatement.  The effect would be that of a sufficiently large torpedo detonated under the keel mid-ship.

I do believe that this 'enlist the masses' focus has been strategic, and is for the ultimate purpose of destroying the Bitcoin solution in it's initial form.  At least in Hearn's case.  Gavin may at one point have been legitimately convinced that ballooning the userbase was a viable defense however naive that may be, and also that bending over backward to placate the existing political power structures so that they will be nice to us made sense.  I don't believe that that is a sustainable argument any more if it ever was, and Gavin must certainly know this.

[Cconvert2G36]

we all know their dirty secret is to ban cash and digitalize your influx so they can track tax you better.

Of course but now we have Bitcoin  

So... as long as your salary is paid in bitcoin, and all the things you buy are paid directly with bitcoin (without any identifying information collected in the process), we are FREE from taxation!  

Oh, but wait, we are only replacing central banking, not commercial banking.  

I guess it's back to sitting on our private keys and talking shit about anybody who wants to actually do anything with this invention. At least we're still guaranteed to get filthy rich, very soon™.  

[JorgeStolfi]

In a "permissioned ledger" (i.e., a distributed mirrored decentralized tamper-resistant database for a closed set of non-anonymous, legally bound entities), transaction processing would be done by the member entities, for whom the service would be compensation enough; and/or by external contractors, who would get paid in dollars through banks, the old-fashioned way.

They already have what you've described. It is called SWIFT.

Yes, I am sure that pretty good solutions that problem were known and used for many years before bitcoin.  Those solutions may not be universally used for many reasons -- including inertia and risk avoidance.  

Or safety.  Delays of hours or days in interbank transfers are an important safety feature, and maybe exist for that reason alone.   When instantaneous transfers are possible, bank hackers and money launderers often take advantage of them, by passing the stolen money through several banks in quick succession, to delay the investigators.  Kidnapping and armed robberies also becomes easier and safer, since the ransom can be paid from the victim's bank account and cashed out before the police becomes aware of the crime.

[adamstgBit]

we all know their dirty secret is to ban cash and digitalize your influx so they can track tax you better.

they talked about banning cash a few months back
pretty sure that by 2025 cash is going to be obsolete and not accepted anywhere anymore.

and good thing too, besides it costing a lot to produce the cash, it also makes poeple sick... you'd probably be more healthy if you never handled coins and bills ever.

cash is also the best way to anonymously donate millions to bad people

and its also used be the illuminati to get poeple to do bad things

there was like 1billion dollars unaccounted for that the pentagon spend and it wasn't ever recorded...

this is bad shit all coming out of the fiat system

bitcoin truly would will make the world a better place.

[BitUsher]

Or safety.  Delays of hours or days in interbank transfers are an important safety feature, and maybe exist for that reason alone.   When instantaneous transfers are possible, bank hackers and money launderers often take advantage of them, by passing the stolen money through several banks in quick succession, to delay the investigators. Kidnapping and armed robberies also becomes easier and safer, since the ransom can be paid from the victim's bank account and cashed out before the police becomes aware of the crime.

It is always interesting to hear people compartmentalize certain unethical actions to make distinctions between what is acceptable in society based upon whether expected groups of criminals commit crimes vs when petty criminals commit crimes.

Thus your comment acknowledges the benefits of certain procedures on reducing petty crimes but actually allows for more institutionalized crimes to occur. You would think that the priority should be placed upon the largest crimes, right?

I am more interested in discovering solutions that involve reducing all these crimes and programmable currency like bitcoin that allows ricardian contracts, mutisig and arbitration fulfills that role.

[Cconvert2G36]

there was like 1billion dollars unaccounted for that the pentagon spend and it wasn't ever recorded...

You dropped a few zeros there adam.

[adamstgBit]

there was like 1billion dollars unaccounted for that the pentagon spend and it wasn't ever recorded...

You dropped a few zeros there adam.

right bitcoin somehow makes individuals TX for all practical purposes completely anonymous, and at the same time makes it possible to track the proper spending of government funds.

schools in africa should post a donation qr code then you'd know all that money is going directly where it should go.

the bitcoin community is very generous, if they made a bit of a show i wouldn't be surprised to see 1million dollars of donations

na african kids with a sob story and a qr code, he gets 100,000$ overnight, makes the news, BAM ever kid in africa whats 100BTC

[BitUsher]

they talked about banning cash a few months back

They are still discussing it ---
http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2015-11-20/bitcoin-is-better-than-cash-for-keeping-track-of-terrorists
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-10-07/ban-physical-cash-coming-soon


And soon teaching math in Australia without certain permissions will be illegal-
http://bitcoinist.net/teaching-encryption-soon-illegal-australia/

Was not expecting this level of stupidity and corruption.