Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[JayJuanGee]

To me, it seems that the status quo of bitcoin is the current 1mb limit on the blocksize,

It may seem that way to you. Another way of looking at it is that, until very recently, the max block size was no factor in the economics of bitcoin.

WTF?  I am only attempting to describe the status quo, and this should not be a controversy.  

If I got it wrong, let me know.  

You seem to be speaking in riddles to indicate some controversy where none exists.  

I am in no way suggesting there is some kind of 1 mb forever, it is merely the current limit that is in the protocol from my understanding, and both xt and classic included proposals to increase that 1mb limit to 2mbs and beyond.  Yet, to my understanding, part of the problem with both xt and classic is that each of those proposals included other governance language (forcing hardforks and forcing timelines for automatic increases to the blocksize limits that were not acceptable or at least not able to achieve consensus).

Nonetheless, the plan to implement seg wit seems to have reached consensus...

If The SegWit Omnibus Changeset had reached consensus, we would not be arguing over it, now would we?

I did not know that we were arguing about seg wit, but apparently, you want to move the goal posts here, while at the same time not explaining what is the problem exactly?  

Initially, I thought that in part we were arguing that some people wanted an increase from 1mb to 2mb to take place immediately, and I was suggesting that the since the status quo was 1mb, there had not been enough evidence or persuasive power to achieve consensus on those blocksize limit increases at this time.  

That is why the plan is for seg wit to come first because at this time, at least, there is consensus on seg wit being a likely overall improvement (yet it is currently being tested, and surely it seems likely that when it goes live there will also likely be some additional issues).

would you like to attempt another summary of what I just said, or are you o.k. with letting my words speak for themselves?

I think I understand your words. I just think they reveal flawed premises.

If you like to clarify further, then great, otherwise I have attempted to respond to your other points above.

[iCEBREAKER]

Please support your assertion that 2-5 cents will buy something to eat.
Where in the world can you buy a snack for 5 cents?  AFAIK not even Thailand/Cambodia/Nepal/India have such cheap food.  IIRC 35 cents is about the lowest you can go for a meal's worth of calories.

If you know better, share the specifics and I'll update Numbeo accordingly.

http://www.dailyfinance.com/photos/food-price-comparison-around-the-world/#!fullscreen&slide=988845

That's ~3 cents per egg btw (for India).

Nice try.  You have to buy a dozen eggs to get them for 3 cents each.

(Morpheus meme kicks in) What if I told you that in a large percentage of the rest of the planet, people don't buy coca colas and beers by the 6packs, eggs by the dozens, and fuel by the gallon?

What if a gave you a link to buy a dozen eggs in India, and they cost 10 cents each?

You made the claim that paying a 3-5 cent tx fee would make the difference between eating and going hungry.

Where would that happen?  Imagination Land?

Is keeping track of every egg sold in India really the best use of Bitcoin blockchain real estate?

Perhaps using zero-fee physical cash (or Litecoin) would work better for the destitute and nearly starving?

No confirmations are needed for RupeeCoins.  Litecoin and Primecoin have much faster blocks.

Why would poor, famished Ari the orphan boy want to use Bitcoin to buy his daily egg, when he might have to wait for an hour or more to get his payment confirmed?

If you have a vanishingly small budget and correspondingly high time preference, Bitcoin isn't really the best fit for your situation.

[ZyclonRacerX]

Miners can also simply go out of business due to unprofitability

this is simply IMPOSSIBLE, maybe individual miners can go  out of business, the the bitcoin mining industry as a whole simply cannot go under, it's impossible.

Unlikely, but not impossible. Modeling economics on perfect feedback/decaying oscillation models doesn't work is why.
Think brewer's yeast. Population explodes til suffocates in own piss, never a stable population. Due to lagging feedback (by the time the first ones start dying from alcohol poisoning, there's already enough poison to kill the entire yeast industry).

[aztecminer]

did someone forget to tell Peter Schiff the blocksize debate is all for show?

today we learned that bitcoin not scaling is really just a big show to do something.. reasons unknown atm . every time something happens with bitcoin we gotta have a big show, drag it out for months and months ..  i will be sure to pass along the info .

[adamstgBit]

Please support your assertion that 2-5 cents will buy something to eat.
Where in the world can you buy a snack for 5 cents?  AFAIK not even Thailand/Cambodia/Nepal/India have such cheap food.  IIRC 35 cents is about the lowest you can go for a meal's worth of calories.

If you know better, share the specifics and I'll update Numbeo accordingly.

http://www.dailyfinance.com/photos/food-price-comparison-around-the-world/#!fullscreen&slide=988845

That's ~3 cents per egg btw (for India).

Nice try.  You have to buy a dozen eggs to get them for 3 cents each.

(Morpheus meme kicks in) What if I told you that in a large percentage of the rest of the planet, people don't buy coca colas and beers by the 6packs, eggs by the dozens, and fuel by the gallon?

What if a gave you a link to buy a dozen eggs in India, and they cost 10 cents each?

You made the claim that paying a 3-5 cent tx fee would make the difference between eating and going hungry.

Where would that happen?  Imagination Land?

Is keeping track of every egg sold in India really the best use of Bitcoin blockchain real estate?

Perhaps using zero-fee physical cash (or Litecoin) would work better for the destitute and nearly starving?

No confirmations are needed for RupeeCoins.  Litecoin and Primecoin have much faster blocks.

Why would poor, famished Ari the orphan boy want to use Bitcoin to buy his daily egg, when he might have to wait for an hour or more to get his payment confirmed?

If you have a vanishingly small budget and correspondingly high time preference, Bitcoin isn't really the best fit for your situation.

comments like this is why bitcoin has lost 6% market share in 2 months

NO bitcoin is NOT ready to take over central banking, get over it, we are small potatoes, and we best realize that before litecoin ( or ETH ) steals all the TX vol.

[road to morocco]

...
Why would poor, famished Ari the orphan boy want to use Bitcoin to buy his daily egg, when he might have to wait for an hour or more to get his payment confirmed?

Now unbanked Chickens... There's a niche we could fill. Those 3c eggs could be had for 2.7c, we just need to take the usurious banks out of the equation.
c2p, Bawk baaawk?

[adamstgBit]

did someone forget to tell Peter Schiff the blocksize debate is all for show?

today we learned that bitcoin not scaling is really just a big show to do something.. reasons unknown atm . every time something happens with bitcoin we gotta have a big show, drag it out for months and months ..  i will be sure to pass along the info .

the blocksize show is there to make nubs sell, accumulate people on the sidelines, while strong hands get stronger!

segwit + 2MB will all be somehow spined as bearish until lightning strikes

It's working wonderfully Peter Schiff still has no bitcoins, when we are ready we will put on the, " bitcoin is ready for mass adoption " show on, and sell Peter Schiff  a few 32,000$ bitcoins

[Karartma1]

Yes I have to think like adam: he explained an awful truth even if that is very sad to accept. It seems the road is paving itself for those new players he was mentioning before.
People don't care about BTC they are only looking for something that's fast, reliable, cheap and last but least EASY and we tend to forget it.

[ChartBuddy]

Coin



Explanation

[iCEBREAKER]

If you have a vanishingly small budget and correspondingly high time preference, Bitcoin isn't really the best fit for your situation.

comments like this is why bitcoin has lost 6% market share in 2 months

NO bitcoin is NOT ready to take over central banking, get over it, we are small potatoes, and we best realize that before litecoin ( or ETH ) steals all the TX vol.

Your concern is duly noted.  Please file your Bitcoin Obituary with the appropriate departmental clerk.

Fear.  Uncertainty.  Concern.  Doubt.  The four hoursemen of the blockocalypse!

Don't worry, it's just the Gavinista media campaign pushing the price down.

Have you noticed when Brian Armstrong speaks the price retreats?  He's like Hearn 2.0.  

[r0ach]

Curious fact #2: Sending bitcoin to developing countries is stupid, that's why almost no one does it

Bitcoin is designed for Russian oligarchs to send millions of dollars over their cell phone while standing on the helicopter pad of their yacht.

[adamstgBit]

 

If you have a vanishingly small budget and correspondingly high time preference, Bitcoin isn't really the best fit for your situation.

comments like this is why bitcoin has lost 6% market share in 2 months

NO bitcoin is NOT ready to take over central banking, get over it, we are small potatoes, and we best realize that before litecoin ( or ETH ) steals all the TX vol.

Your concern is duly noted.  Please file your Bitcoin Obituary with the appropriate departmental clerk.

Fear.  Uncertainty.  Concern.  Doubt.  The four hoursemen of the blockocalypse!

Don't worry, it's just the Gavinista media campaign pushing the price down.

Have you noticed when Brian Armstrong speaks the price retreats?  He's like Hearn 2.0.   

already banks have turned away from bitcoin in favor of dev.ing there own private chains.

bitcoin isn't the only game in town, and bitcoin's network effect can't shield us forever.

the clock is ticking, and Vitalik Buterin is writing 1000's lines a minute trying to takeover, please do keep arguing about exactly when and how we will roll out the inevitable block size increase, do we even need a block size increase? let's go back the drawing board 1 more time to make sure we are not making a BIG mistake.

get a grip!

[JayJuanGee]

If you have a vanishingly small budget and correspondingly high time preference, Bitcoin isn't really the best fit for your situation.

comments like this is why bitcoin has lost 6% market share in 2 months

NO bitcoin is NOT ready to take over central banking, get over it, we are small potatoes, and we best realize that before litecoin ( or ETH ) steals all the TX vol.

Your concern is duly noted.  Please file your Bitcoin Obituary with the appropriate departmental clerk.

Fear.  Uncertainty.  Concern.  Doubt.  The four hoursemen of the blockocalypse!

Don't worry, it's just the Gavinista media campaign pushing the price down.

Have you noticed when Brian Armstrong speaks the price retreats?  He's like Hearn 2.0.  

Oh my!!!!!!!!


I gotta think about this one for future use....      Yet, I am not sure how to use it in the correct context, exactly.


Instead of spreading FUD.....    The bitcoin naysayers are spreading misinformation to assert that bitcoin is FUCD.  

[r0ach]

the clock is ticking, and Vitalik Buterin is writing 1000's lines a minute trying to takeover

You can't be serious.  Ethereum is the biggest scam seen in cryptocurrency so far:

The Ethereum Paradox

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1361602.0

[watashi-kokoto]

☑ New Ethereum website UP
☑ Wallet UP
☑ Pumpers cashed out 200 millions to Bitcoin
☐ Bagholders exit run

[adamstgBit]

the clock is ticking, and Vitalik Buterin is writing 1000's lines a minute trying to takeover

You can't be serious.  Ethereum is the biggest scam seen in cryptocurrency so far:

The Ethereum Paradox

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1361602.0

this just proves market dont favor "technically superior" solutions.

[adamstgBit]

your all convinced the ship won't sink because it's the biggest, a titanic mistake.

[ZyclonRacerX]

Curious fact #2: Sending bitcoin to developing countries is stupid, that's why almost no one does it

Bitcoin is designed for Russian oligarchs to send millions of dollars over their cell phone while standing on the helicopter pad of their yacht.

Possibly. Although, much like the egg-buying beggar boys, Russian oligarchs remain unimpressed.
Owell, another shattered dream

your all convinced the ship won't sink because it's the biggest, a titanic mistake.

Hope you meant it in the "y'all" sense, I certainly ain't.

[adamstgBit]

[JayJuanGee]

If you have a vanishingly small budget and correspondingly high time preference, Bitcoin isn't really the best fit for your situation.

comments like this is why bitcoin has lost 6% market share in 2 months

NO bitcoin is NOT ready to take over central banking, get over it, we are small potatoes, and we best realize that before litecoin ( or ETH ) steals all the TX vol.

Your concern is duly noted.  Please file your Bitcoin Obituary with the appropriate departmental clerk.

Fear.  Uncertainty.  Concern.  Doubt.  The four hoursemen of the blockocalypse!

Don't worry, it's just the Gavinista media campaign pushing the price down.

Have you noticed when Brian Armstrong speaks the price retreats?  He's like Hearn 2.0.   

already banks have turned away from bitcoin in favor of dev.ing there own private chains.

bitcoin isn't the only game in town, and bitcoin's network effect can't shield us forever.

the clock is ticking, and Vitalik Buterin is writing 1000's lines a minute trying to takeover, please do keep arguing about exactly when and how we will roll out the inevitable block size increase, do we even need a block size increase? let's go back the drawing board 1 more time to make sure we are not making a BIG mistake.

get a grip!

If someone makes a better mouse trap, then why should we give a fuck?  We can just move over to using that better mousetrap, no? 

In spite of all the FUCD spreading... bitcoin is still far and above the best regarding various network effects and also security.. so what it is not the fastest or the cheapest.. in the end, it's technically sound with a bunch of screamers misappropriately suggesting it's FUCD, in part in order to attempt to get their way in various regards.

One of the problems with identifying a better mouse trap is that we better begin to move over our assets before our bitcoin investment depreciates too much (or so long as we are not too far in the hole or leveraged regarding bitcoin), but that is the case with any investment, we gotta both diversify our investments and not invest more than we can handle into any one thing... otherwise we will get too EMOTIONAL about it, right? 

Regarding ETH... at this time, I have no inclination to move any of my BTC investment over there.. .Surely, maybe others do, and good luck to them and their predictions about the short-term future of ETH as compared with BTC.