Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[BitUsher]

the clock is ticking, and Vitalik Buterin is writing 1000's lines a minute trying to takeover

You can't be serious.  Ethereum is the biggest scam seen in cryptocurrency so far:

The Ethereum Paradox

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1361602.0

Yes.

A few concerns with this token -

1) Vitalik organization is running out of fiat money as he admitted himself and he will need to start dumping his large bag to pay expenses

2) You think Bitcoin has scaling problems , Ethereum's blocksize is already over 10GB and no one is using it. Even if they "sharded up" and pruned the blocksize they are going to have much larger problems because there currency isn't a currency but fuel for cpu cycles, thus a popular DAPP would both drive up the cost of cpu cycles and clog the network

3) 12 sec blocktimes is absurdly small and leads to too many orphans or forks. This is why Monero devs are increasing from 1 minute block times to 2 or more

4) Lack of practical use case of any Dapps , mainly a novelty right now.

 5) Once ethereum switches to PoS, there will be strong incentives to simply fork the coin to either create a sidechain or clone with the same properties but better security because the fuel distribution can be bootstrapped like clams as proposed by æthereum. Losing PoW will remove any advantage ethereum has over other ethereum forks/clones. Why would anyone want to pay for ethereum fuel when they are given free æthereum DAPP fuel and than subsequent fuel purchases are both more secure and less expensive?

[r0ach]

the clock is ticking, and Vitalik Buterin is writing 1000's lines a minute trying to takeover

You can't be serious.  Ethereum is the biggest scam seen in cryptocurrency so far:

The Ethereum Paradox

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1361602.0

this just proves market dont favor "technically superior" solutions.

It's not about technically superior.  People claim things like Dogecoin are "scam coins", but Dogecoin actually functions.  Ethereum will not be commercially viable for it's intended purpose, meaning it's value will likely eventually be zero, while things like Dogecoin and whatevercoin could linger on for decades.  Ethereum is an actual scam coin.

[ZyclonRacerX]

If you have a vanishingly small budget and correspondingly high time preference, Bitcoin isn't really the best fit for your situation.

comments like this is why bitcoin has lost 6% market share in 2 months

NO bitcoin is NOT ready to take over central banking, get over it, we are small potatoes, and we best realize that before litecoin ( or ETH ) steals all the TX vol.

Your concern is duly noted.  Please file your Bitcoin Obituary with the appropriate departmental clerk.

Fear.  Uncertainty.  Concern.  Doubt.  The four hoursemen of the blockocalypse!

Don't worry, it's just the Gavinista media campaign pushing the price down.

Have you noticed when Brian Armstrong speaks the price retreats?  He's like Hearn 2.0.   

already banks have turned away from bitcoin in favor of dev.ing there own private chains.

bitcoin isn't the only game in town, and bitcoin's network effect can't shield us forever.

the clock is ticking, and Vitalik Buterin is writing 1000's lines a minute trying to takeover, please do keep arguing about exactly when and how we will roll out the inevitable block size increase, do we even need a block size increase? let's go back the drawing board 1 more time to make sure we are not making a BIG mistake.

get a grip!

If someone makes a better mouse trap, then why should we give a fuck?  We can just move over to using that better mousetrap, no? 
< ... >

Because you got a bag of worse mousetraps, i.e. Bitcoin?

[Trolfi]

great stuff: http://www.ic.unicamp.br/~stolfi/EXPORT/projects/bitcoin/posts/2015-06-10-my-sofa-is-a-sidechain/main.html

[JayJuanGee]

If you have a vanishingly small budget and correspondingly high time preference, Bitcoin isn't really the best fit for your situation.

comments like this is why bitcoin has lost 6% market share in 2 months

NO bitcoin is NOT ready to take over central banking, get over it, we are small potatoes, and we best realize that before litecoin ( or ETH ) steals all the TX vol.

Your concern is duly noted.  Please file your Bitcoin Obituary with the appropriate departmental clerk.

Fear.  Uncertainty.  Concern.  Doubt.  The four hoursemen of the blockocalypse!

Don't worry, it's just the Gavinista media campaign pushing the price down.

Have you noticed when Brian Armstrong speaks the price retreats?  He's like Hearn 2.0.   

already banks have turned away from bitcoin in favor of dev.ing there own private chains.

bitcoin isn't the only game in town, and bitcoin's network effect can't shield us forever.

the clock is ticking, and Vitalik Buterin is writing 1000's lines a minute trying to takeover, please do keep arguing about exactly when and how we will roll out the inevitable block size increase, do we even need a block size increase? let's go back the drawing board 1 more time to make sure we are not making a BIG mistake.

get a grip!

If someone makes a better mouse trap, then why should we give a fuck?  We can just move over to using that better mousetrap, no? 
< ... >

Because you got a bag of worse mousetraps, i.e. Bitcoin?

For some reason, you seem to be twisting my point.  Yes, you can move over to the better mousetrap, if there is such a thing, and whether your worse mousetraps retain any value whatsoever is another part of the story and preparation.  I personally believe that bitcoin is not a worse mousetrap, but it could be possible for some better mousetrap to emerge over time.. and each of us needs to decide for himself whether and how much to invest in that better mousetrap and the timing for such... which we may get wrong, in part.

[watashi-kokoto]

The whole altcoin race is to create the most hyped worthless shit ever, similiar to how regular FIAT functions.

Altcoin that rises in value is pointless. The rise or stability stimulates saving.

Real commerce happens with bear market altcoin. This stimulates spending and spurs online economic activity.

Unless of course, everyone dumps, and the whole thing goes tits up.

[hdbuck]

NO bitcoin is NOT ready to take over central banking, get over it, we are small potatoes, and we best realize that before litecoin ( or ETH ) steals all the TX vol.

yea eth is so fast and useful (of shit):




big potato coming at you bitcoin!

[2015Bubble]

the clock is ticking, and Vitalik Buterin is writing 1000's lines a minute trying to takeover

You can't be serious.  Ethereum is the biggest scam seen in cryptocurrency so far:

The Ethereum Paradox

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1361602.0

No that was quark, I lost 15k euro due that dickhead max keiser and his old looking dickhead friend. Who where pumping it on youtube.

[adamstgBit]

great stuff: http://www.ic.unicamp.br/~stolfi/EXPORT/projects/bitcoin/posts/2015-06-10-my-sofa-is-a-sidechain/main.html

lmao wtf

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

the clock is ticking, and Vitalik Buterin is writing 1000's lines a minute trying to takeover

You can't be serious.  Ethereum is the biggest scam seen in cryptocurrency so far:

The Ethereum Paradox

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1361602.0

Yes.

A few concerns with this token -

1) Vitalik organization is running out of fiat money as he admitted himself and he will need to start dumping his large bag to pay expenses

-snip-

I still don’t quite get how this business is legal, strictly speaking.

[ChartBuddy]

Coin



Explanation

[adamstgBit]

the clock is ticking, and Vitalik Buterin is writing 1000's lines a minute trying to takeover

You can't be serious.  Ethereum is the biggest scam seen in cryptocurrency so far:

The Ethereum Paradox

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1361602.0

Yes.

A few concerns with this token -

1) Vitalik organization is running out of fiat money as he admitted himself and he will need to start dumping his large bag to pay expenses

-snip-

I still don’t quite get how this business is legal, strictly speaking.

ETH is Skynet, they can do wtv the F they want.

[aztecminer]

These smallblocker arguments are demostrably stupid. If You were a malicious spammer, your goal would be to cause the most amount of damage, to achieve the most amount of service disruption for your buck, right?
So why the hell would it matter if you paid 10,000 1 cent fees or 5,000 two cent fees?  If anything 5,000 two cent fees would be slightly easier and that's what you need to do with small blocks.  Effectively there is no difference in the cost to disrupt service.  

The simple fact is that it's easier to disrupt a network that is already running close to capacity than one that has more excess capacity. That should be intuitively obvious to anyone without a mental handicap. Think about it: would it be easier to cause a traffic jam during rush hour or at 3 AM?

If your goal is to make the chain so bloated that nodes drop off, your challenge is to cause more damage than it cost to do it, but hard drive space is really cheap and getting cheaper, so it's always gonna cost you more to harm the network than the damage you produce.  So bloat the chain, morons. You're making us money.

So what WOULD discourage a malicious spammer? Only one thing I can think of: make the network so shitty and unreliable, so pathetic that it's not worth the effort to harm.  This is apparently the Core dev's strategy.

There is no cryptographically sound way to distinguish between spam and legitimate transactions. You cannot discourage one without also discouraging the other. Spam is just a cost of doing business.  The sooner we learn to live with it, the sooner we can get on to real problems that need to be addressed and CAN be fixed.

Problems like:
1.Mining being overwhelmingly concentrated in a single communist country.
2.Faulty code that actually gives those miners a selfish mining advantage for having limited bandwidth behind the Great Firewall.
3.Developer governance rules that give any small group effective veto power over any upgrades
4.Emerging altcoin competition that has applied the lessons learned from Bitcoin's problems to develop superior cryptocurrencies.

we talk and talk, they dont give a dam. .. i got policies.. one them is, "if you don't give a dam then i dont give a dam" .. we need let this develop a bit more, get obama closer to being out of office. now i am going to say this again, buy pms, buy silver cuz it is at historically high conversion rate to gold.. it will totally fuk em.. and you will be in a much better position to deal with crypto-currencies.. after tellin u this one or two things will happen, the price will rise before u can buy like it has done when i told u before when silver was at 13.50.. its now at 15.50 .. u would have broke even already. the price could drop after u buy, in which case i will buy more if the drop is significant enough. best thing to do is buy all the way down and hold until they lose control .. which is close.. janet yellen coming out yelling about negative interest rates is their next thing shows us how desperate they have become.

[ZyclonRacerX]

If someone makes a better mouse trap, then why should we give a fuck?  We can just move over to using that better mousetrap, no?  
< ... >

Because you got a bag of worse mousetraps, i.e. Bitcoin?

For some reason, you seem to be twisting my point.  Yes, you can move over to the better mousetrap, if there is such a thing, and whether your worse mousetraps retain any value whatsoever is another part of the story and preparation.  I personally believe that bitcoin is not a worse mousetrap, but it could be possible for some better mousetrap to emerge over time.. and each of us needs to decide for himself whether and how much to invest in that better mousetrap and the timing for such... which we may get wrong, in part.

1. You asked "If someone makes a better mouse trap, then why should we give a fuck?"
2. I explained to you why you should.

Instead of thanking me for setting  you straight, you:

1. Tell me I "can move over to the better mousetrap," apropos of nothing.

2. Redundantly doubt the existence of a better mousetrap ("if there is such a thing"). So that's why you wrote "If someone makes a better mouse trap," not "THERE IS a better mousetrap"? Well I'll be...

3. Issue a confusing non sequitur: "and whether [my] worse mousetraps retain any value whatsoever is another part of the story and preparation."

4. Restate your faith in Bitcoin: "I personally believe that bitcoin is not a worse mousetrap," see (2).

5. Show what an open-minded bro you are by stating the obvious: "but it could be possible for some better mousetrap to emerge over time," stressing the temporal aspect of being with "emerge over time."

6. Share a platitude re. investing: "and each of us needs to decide for himself whether and how much to invest in that better mousetrap and the timing for such..."

7. And warn us to be prepared for [partial] failure, even if we choose to follow your sound financial advice: "which we may get wrong, in part."

...which is all good and well, and evaluates mostly to "true," but did you know that giraffes have special valves in their necks to prevent their brains from exploding when they bend down? And also a little snubber choke at 807 plate caps goes a long way for killing parasitics when you run a bunch in parallel?

[adamstgBit]

wow biggest block i have ever seen 999.91KB

there 215$ if fees in this block
 a few tx have a fee >2$

[ZyclonRacerX]

... biggest block i have ever seen ...

She's the sweetest queen I've ever seen
(CPL593H)

...we talk and talk...

I could talk talk talk, talk myself to death
But I believe I would only waste my breath

Boredom. Not even once.

[adamstgBit]

we need

[aztecminer]

The simple fact is that it's easier to disrupt a network that is already running close to capacity than one that has more excess capacity. That should be intuitively obvious to anyone without a mental handicap.

LOL well put.
I'm going to keep that one in my back pocket.

He forgot the bloat part which is achieved with less cost when the network has ample capacity.

If normal use, is, say, 500-700kb and the rest is spam that goes in for cheap, then instead of a spammer filling 300-500kb of spam for free/near free, he gets to increase that to 1300-1500, which is 3-4x.

I did not forget the bloat cost. I addressed that.  Hard drive space is so cheap and getting cheaper that any damage caused by bloat will cost the attacker more than the network.  It currently costs ~ $5,000 in fees to bloat the blockchain by 1 GB.  Harddrive space is about 30 cents a GB (and getting cheaper), so with 10,000 nodes, it costs $3,000.  It costs 5 grand to cause less than 3 grand worth of damage. This may not be satisfactory to some, but it makes this kind of attack a much smaller worry than other problems that we need to be dealing with.

hard drives are cheaper. u can buy 1TB seagate hybrid drives for $50.

[aztecminer]

The simple fact is that it's easier to disrupt a network that is already running close to capacity than one that has more excess capacity. That should be intuitively obvious to anyone without a mental handicap.

LOL well put.
I'm going to keep that one in my back pocket.

He forgot the bloat part which is achieved with less cost when the network has ample capacity.

If normal use, is, say, 500-700kb and the rest is spam that goes in for cheap, then instead of a spammer filling 300-500kb of spam for free/near free, he gets to increase that to 1300-1500, which is 3-4x.

I did not forget the bloat cost. I addressed that.  Hard drive space is so cheap and getting cheaper that any damage caused by bloat will cost the attacker more than the network.  It currently costs ~ $5,000 in fees to bloat the blockchain by 1 GB.  Harddrive space is about 30 cents a GB (and getting cheaper), so with 10,000 nodes, it costs $3,000.  It costs 5 grand to cause less than 3 grand worth of damage. This may not be satisfactory to some, but it makes this kind of attack a much smaller worry than other problems that we need to be dealing with.

The bloat cost creates

1) storage costs
2) bandwidth costs (as this 1gb or 10gb or 100gb must be downloaded and served over and over in the network - for decades)
3) processing costs / power costs (for decades)
4) I/O slowdowns (if the blockchain can't fit anymore in an affordable SSD you'll have to rely on a mechanical disk which is slow)
5) centralization cost as nodes have to drop out, increasing costs to the fewer nodes that remain. It's a vicious cycle where the less you have, the more the costs, plus you now become an easier target for DDOSing (more costs)

As for the problems that we may need to worry, these are what exactly? That txs without a few cents in fees won't go in in the next block? That's all there is to it.

this is an argument that bitcoin really isnt that great of an innovation . i gonna keep this in my back pocket in case need it for something.

[JayJuanGee]

If someone makes a better mouse trap, then why should we give a fuck?  We can just move over to using that better mousetrap, no?  
< ... >

Because you got a bag of worse mousetraps, i.e. Bitcoin?

For some reason, you seem to be twisting my point.  Yes, you can move over to the better mousetrap, if there is such a thing, and whether your worse mousetraps retain any value whatsoever is another part of the story and preparation.  I personally believe that bitcoin is not a worse mousetrap, but it could be possible for some better mousetrap to emerge over time.. and each of us needs to decide for himself whether and how much to invest in that better mousetrap and the timing for such... which we may get wrong, in part.

1. You asked "If someone makes a better mouse trap, then why should we give a fuck?"
2. I explained to you why you should.

Instead of thanking me for setting  you straight, you:

1. Tell me I "can move over to the better mousetrap," apropos of nothing.

2. Redundantly doubt the existence of a better mousetrap ("if there is such a thing"). So that's why you wrote "If someone makes a better mouse trap," not "THERE IS a better mousetrap"? Well I'll be...

3. Issue a confusing non sequitur: "and whether [my] worse mousetraps retain any value whatsoever is another part of the story and preparation."

4. Restate your faith in Bitcoin: "I personally believe that bitcoin is not a worse mousetrap," see (2).

5. Show what an open-minded bro you are by stating the obvious: "but it could be possible for some better mousetrap to emerge over time," stressing the temporal aspect of being with "emerge over time."

6. Share a platitude re. investing: "and each of us needs to decide for himself whether and how much to invest in that better mousetrap and the timing for such..."

7. And warn us to be prepared for [partial] failure, even if we choose to follow your sound financial advice: "which we may get wrong, in part."

...which is all good and well, and evaluates mostly to "true," but did you know that giraffes have special valves in their necks to prevent their brains from exploding when they bend down? And also a little snubber choke at 807 plate caps goes a long way for killing parasitics when you run a bunch in parallel?

Yeah, you are filling a bunch of space with your text, but so fucking what? 

Your attempted break down, analysis and parsing of my post makes gobbledy gook out of the whole matter, no?

I mean if we are really attempting to better understand topical matters and to exchange ideas within this thread, then frequently, there is no need to break down and analyze the posts of others (yes sometimes there may be some need for that) but instead we attempt to get the gist of various ideas that are presented and figure out the extent to which we may agree or disagree, and respond to such or seek clarification. 

Your post seems to be attempting some kind of analysis and parsing without really advancing any kind of meaningful attempt at a discussion, which may also be labelled as trolling.