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Question: How long until 70K (credit: Heslo)
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the top is in - math and science confirms it - 17 (16.5%)
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Author Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion  (Read 25264944 times)
This is a self-moderated topic. If you do not want to be moderated by the person who started this topic, create a new topic. (157 posts by 13 users deleted.)
d_eddie
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July 23, 2017, 05:03:04 PM

I'm not sure why changing the POW algo to an Asic resistant GPU friendly algo would really stop a centralization trend. GPUs use electricity, correct? Part of the problem with the "Chinese mining cartel" is that they can get cheaper electricity. Correct? What's to prevent them from just establishing huge GPU mining farms and shutting out the little guys again? Not to mention that the bigger guys will be able to get a deal on the GPUS since they would be able to buy in huge bulk.

I gather you've been (are still?) a miner, so your opinion has weight for me.
Please help me understand.

The cheap (subsidized) electricity argument... yeah, that is probably a show-stopper Sad
However, wouldn't an assortment of algos make life harder to monopolists/producer firms by forcing some kind of specialization?
Besides, they might have GPU farms (I believe they do), but in that case they would still be competing with homespun rigs set up by people who fire their computers anyway, mining or no mining. At the moment, given the monopolist market, few independent actors have modern mining equipments able to compete. Do you think the number and power of "independent" GPU's is too small to be significant?
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bitserve
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July 23, 2017, 05:11:28 PM

spread some more good quality FUD, i need cheep coins to buy Smiley

We are all going to die... sometime.
Not necessarily... http://www.sens.org/research/introduction-to-sens-research

Troll, you are going to die too!


The damage is already done, there will be now 42 million bitcoins, exchanges and merchants are already scrambling to deal with it.

Using bitcoin.com as a source for its FUD material is exactly what a Monero shill would do.
hodl_2015
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July 23, 2017, 05:17:14 PM

The damage is already done, there will be now 42 million bitcoins, exchanges and merchants are already scrambling to deal with it.
That would also mean I now have twice as many bitcoins.
lost_in_base
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July 23, 2017, 05:18:20 PM

The damage is already done, there will be now 42 million bitcoins, exchanges and merchants are already scrambling to deal with it.
That would also mean I now have twice as many bitcoins.

Exchanges can dump bcc with insane volume.

So it is just a dead altcoin.
Icygreen
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July 23, 2017, 05:20:47 PM

The damage is already done, there will be now 42 million bitcoins, exchanges and merchants are already scrambling to deal with it.
That would also mean I now have twice as many bitcoins.

Exchanges can dump bcc with insane volume.

So it is just a dead altcoin.
And if you held both? Any risk in that?
FractalUniverse
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July 23, 2017, 05:25:55 PM

spread some more good quality FUD, i need cheep coins to buy Smiley

We are all going to die... sometime.
Not necessarily... http://www.sens.org/research/introduction-to-sens-research
yeah sounds good Smiley survivors will gather coins from those who die :p or at least their holdings value will rise
lost_in_base
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July 23, 2017, 05:28:50 PM

The damage is already done, there will be now 42 million bitcoins, exchanges and merchants are already scrambling to deal with it.
That would also mean I now have twice as many bitcoins.

Exchanges can dump bcc with insane volume.

So it is just a dead altcoin.
And if you held both? Any risk in that?

No risk, just stupid.
Dump when there is any value.

This game with bcc will end when big exchanges will announce at monday that they will not support bcc in anyway atall never ever..!

Via will be left alone with its fake volume halting its users real coins.

To be avoided:
Bitbank Inc.
Bitpoint Japan Co. Ltd.
Quoine Co. Ltd.
Fisco Cryptocurrency Exchange Inc.
Coincheck Co. Ltd.
Btc Box Co. Ltd.
Tech Bureau Co. Ltd. (Zaif Exchange)
GMO-Z.com Coin Co. Ltd.
Campfire Corporation
Bit Trade Co. Ltd.
Bitcrements Bitcoin Exchange
Tokyo Bitcoin Co. Ltd.
Minnano Bitcoin

oblox
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July 23, 2017, 05:34:30 PM

Antpool is now signaling SW...

They all are due to BIP91. If they don't, they risk getting their solved blocks orphaned.

Sure, but segwit needs a bit1 flag, not bit4 (91). Don't all bip91 miners need to signal bit1 for it to truly be in?
FractalUniverse
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July 23, 2017, 05:40:47 PM

there will be hardly anyone to dump those split tokens onto.
current orderbook at finex: [and i doubt it would be much different in case of split]
bccusd:
 2         2.0    2.0    2,329
1         0.0    2.0    2,300
1         2.0    4.0    2,227
1         0.0    4.0    2,000
1         0.0    4.1    1,729
1         0.0    4.1    1,720
1         0.0    4.1    1,600
1         4.9    9.0    1,500
2         22.3    31.4    1,370
........
1         0.1    32.7    3

bcc/btc:
1         5.0    5.0    0.900
1         0.1    5.1    0.8712
1         0.0    5.1    0.8610
4         9.3    14.5    0.8550
2         5.0    19.5    0.8500
1         0.0    19.5    0.8143
......
1         0.0    24.6    0.1100
1         1.0    25.6    0.0920
1         10.0    35.6    0.0141
1         22.0    57.6    0.00023
1         31.0    88.6    0.00022
1         44.0    132.6    0.00021
1         496.1    628.7    0.00020
2         4,000.0    4,628.7    0.00001
1         2,000.0    6,628.7    0.000006
1         2,000.0    8,628.7    0.000005
1         2,000.0    10,628.7    0.000004
2         4,000.0    14,628.7    0.000002
12         24,000.0    38,628.7    0.000001


BlindMayorBitcorn
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July 23, 2017, 05:42:42 PM

The damage is already done, there will be now 42 million bitcoins, exchanges and merchants are already scrambling to deal with it.
That would also mean I now have twice as many bitcoins.

Exchanges can dump bcc with insane volume.

So it is just a dead altcoin.

Chinese mining cartel can dump BTC proper into oblivion. Let's face it. We're all going to die.
lost_in_base
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July 23, 2017, 05:49:17 PM

there will be hardly anyone to dump those split tokens onto.
current orderbook at finex: [and i doubt it would be much different in case of split]
bccusd:
 2         2.0    2.0    2,329
1         0.0    2.0    2,300
1         2.0    4.0    2,227
1         0.0    4.0    2,000
1         0.0    4.1    1,729
1         0.0    4.1    1,720
1         0.0    4.1    1,600
1         4.9    9.0    1,500
2         22.3    31.4    1,370
........
1         0.1    32.7    3

bcc/btc:
1         5.0    5.0    0.900
1         0.1    5.1    0.8712
1         0.0    5.1    0.8610
4         9.3    14.5    0.8550
2         5.0    19.5    0.8500
1         0.0    19.5    0.8143
......
1         0.0    24.6    0.1100
1         1.0    25.6    0.0920
1         10.0    35.6    0.0141
1         22.0    57.6    0.00023
1         31.0    88.6    0.00022
1         44.0    132.6    0.00021
1         496.1    628.7    0.00020
2         4,000.0    4,628.7    0.00001
1         2,000.0    6,628.7    0.000006
1         2,000.0    8,628.7    0.000005
1         2,000.0    10,628.7    0.000004
2         4,000.0    14,628.7    0.000002
12         24,000.0    38,628.7    0.000001





 Chain Split Tokens

Chain Split Tokens (CSTs) are the first such product of its kind, allowing Bitfinex customers to speculate on future fork events of the Bitcoin blockchain, specifically, the potential fork between Bitcoin Core and Bitcoin Unlimited by 11:59:59 UTC December 31, 2017. CSTs are designated as BCC (Bitcoin Core) and BCU (Bitcoin Unlimited). CSTs trade as BTC and USD pairs.

Users will be able to create CSTs by “splitting” a bitcoin through the Token Manager (located in the Order Form’s Order Type drop-down menu in the sidebar). Once split, the BTC will be removed from your account for each BCC and BCU added. Through the same Token Manager, you will be able to reverse this process at any time, trading in equal numbers of BCC and BCU to extract BTC.

Learn more about Chain Split Tokens from:

https://www.bitfinex.com/posts/195

https://www.bitfinex.com/cst_token_terms


Shit comes in many forms..

This has nothing to do with bcc , bitcoin cash by VIA
FractalUniverse
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July 23, 2017, 06:00:16 PM

Quote from: lost_in_base
Shit comes in many forms..

This has nothing to do with bcc , bitcoin cash by VIA
hmmm
Im trying to find out how to make some profit out of this (as i was left without btc because of recent fast pump)
I'll figure this out within few days, give me some time Grin
lost_in_base
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July 23, 2017, 06:06:08 PM

Quote from: lost_in_base
Shit comes in many forms..

This has nothing to do with bcc , bitcoin cash by VIA
hmmm
Im trying to find out how to make some profit out of this (as i was left without btc because of recent fast pump)
I'll figure this out within few days, give me some time Grin
The problem is when it forks off, whales cash(dump) it to zero.
Just another altcoin that should have no affect on BTC exchanges but japanese will halt some.

Lets get back to ATH!
Only 190 usd to go!
European Central Bank
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July 23, 2017, 06:10:44 PM

Chinese mining cartel can dump BTC proper into oblivion. Let's face it. We're all going to die.

there's a whole world out there with dollars, euros and more. they can only sell once.
Icygreen
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July 23, 2017, 06:19:59 PM

Speculation on electricity costs vs. value:

Lets say mining costs (electricity costs) significantly decreased in the next decade or even became free. Would this pull the value out of bitcoin's POW? Or perhaps more nodes could run and value would be placed more on the security of the network.

Surely decreased energy costs would be a global change and difficult to predict.
bones261
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July 23, 2017, 06:25:53 PM

I'm not sure why changing the POW algo to an Asic resistant GPU friendly algo would really stop a centralization trend. GPUs use electricity, correct? Part of the problem with the "Chinese mining cartel" is that they can get cheaper electricity. Correct? What's to prevent them from just establishing huge GPU mining farms and shutting out the little guys again? Not to mention that the bigger guys will be able to get a deal on the GPUS since they would be able to buy in huge bulk.

I gather you've been (are still?) a miner, so your opinion has weight for me.
Please help me understand.

The cheap (subsidized) electricity argument... yeah, that is probably a show-stopper Sad
However, wouldn't an assortment of algos make life harder to monopolists/producer firms by forcing some kind of specialization?
Besides, they might have GPU farms (I believe they do), but in that case they would still be competing with homespun rigs set up by people who fire their computers anyway, mining or no mining. At the moment, given the monopolist market, few independent actors have modern mining equipments able to compete. Do you think the number and power of "independent" GPU's is too small to be significant?


Yes, people use their computers anyway. However, running a GPU 24/7 at maximum capacity uses a lot more electricity than a computer sitting on idle for most of the day. An assortment of algos only makes it difficult/impossible to make ASICs, which are dedicated chips designed to only do one task very well. Since GPUS are more general purpose, it's only a matter of changing the software to mine a new algo. It is true that an independent miner can possibly find ways to minimize their electricity costs. They may live in an area where it is cheaper. The may also live in a cooler climate, so their coolings costs would go down. The real kicker though is a big guy will almost always be able to buy the equipment (the GPUs) for cheaper than the independent miner. It's the same reason why Wal-mart can get their goods for way cheaper than an independent grocery. I'm not an expert, but one factor is that the cost of shipping goods does not go up proportionately with the amount of goods transported. A bus may use more gas than a taxi, but it can carry up to 50+ passengers and doesn't use 10X the gas. Plus both the bus and the taxi each need only one employee to drive.
bones261
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July 23, 2017, 06:33:23 PM

Speculation on electricity costs vs. value:

Lets say mining costs (electricity costs) significantly decreased in the next decade or even became free. Would this pull the value out of bitcoin's POW? Or perhaps more nodes could run and value would be placed more on the security of the network.

Surely decreased energy costs would be a global change and difficult to predict.

Even if electricity is free, the equipment needed to mine costs money. Plus the time spent setting up and monitoring your equipment is worth something.
Ludwig Von
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July 23, 2017, 07:32:49 PM
Last edit: July 23, 2017, 07:55:01 PM by Ludwig Von

So the majority of the miners are Chinese? I do not know about the technicals of BTC mining, but I have some experience with Chinese business. And no doubt, these miners are fully controlled by the PBOC. And everything they do is planned at the PBOC.
European Central Bank
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July 23, 2017, 07:48:21 PM

It's funny to read people speculate about how Bitcoin would look like if mining was fairer when its happening right now with Monero: https://boards.4chan.org/g/thread/61488992#p61492245

that thread is incomprehensible. what does it mean?
orpington
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July 23, 2017, 07:50:44 PM

It's funny to read people speculate about how Bitcoin would look like if mining was fairer when its happening right now with Monero: https://boards.4chan.org/g/thread/61488992#p61492245

that thread is incomprehensible. what does it mean?

Build your bunker now?
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