Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[JayJuanGee]

A bleed is pending and I think it'd come soon. We've had enough pumps, and all that should now get settled with bitcoin going less than $13,000 once again. Alts have bled enough, now their time should come to rule for some time. Look at ETH/BTC, no one expected that price again of ETH/ETC against BTC. A big correction is required now, else even many countries would start taking bitcoin suspicious.

U sound nutso, or perhaps desperate.

Sure you might possibly be correct that we are going to experience a correction, but your phrasing that a correction "is required" seems to be out of touch with the nature of markets and bitcoin.

Furthermore, you hopeful lauding of ETH in terms of "no one expected" is a bunch of bullshit too.

Ethereum is no fucking equivalent to bitcoin, and sure there has been decent pumping coming from the snot nosed 14 year olds, but that shit had been pumped quite a bit beyond any true value that it had, so attempting to assert that .1BTC per ETH or anything close to that is normal, seems a stretch, and surely anything above .01BTC per ETH is seeming a bit inflated, too.   So perhaps cashing out of ETH might be prudent rather than pumping (and pimping) it in this BTC thread.

Oh please, ETH has great value. You can breed Cryptokitties with it. Plus it's a great ICO token generator.  
Here is a link to my ETH address to show you that I am indeed a huge (m)ETHhead. 
https://etherscan.io/address/0x6a422441d27e1d9687e410cd7f856479d3059676

Yep.  A true believer and a BIG gun, if I ever saw one.   

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[Rosewater Foundation]

The price went to another ATH $17000+

$20k before X-Mass?

IDK. I think Jimbo is right, this was one of those double tops.

[jojo69]

I'm sorry, but I can not understand it. I do not understand the logic behind that.
I know that it is very annoying to quote Satoshi, but his original idea was that anyone could make a transansation with another, without the need of a third party; He even talked about small payments. I understand that his words are not absolute truths, and that he may also have made mistakes, but, that is far from wanting to convert bitcoin into a tool of a new plutocracy, in a type of money that only new oligarchs can use. That's what I have trouble understanding.
And maybe they are right, maybe it does not collapse, and we see the birth of a new economy and oligarchy, but not different from the previous ones in ethical terms.

No

I am sorry.

I mistook you for our garden variety troll, and I apologize.  I see now that you have an actual concern, one I share as a matter of fact. 

You bring up a valid point.  I can see how my attitude displayed above could be seen as every bit as distasteful as the bigblocker "if you don't have $20,000 [to spend on a full node] to help this network then fuck you".

I sincerely wish that the scaling debate could have remained civil...but this is the world we live in, and I am not prepared to cede control of the potentially most liberating technology ever conceived to the current big block cabal.

Yes, a microtransaction crypto implementation would be nice, perhaps Litecoin, perhaps L2/offchain solutions...but not shoddy, untested and hastilly implemented code on THIS blockchain...NO, the market has said no.

[Syke]

Bleh. Finally decided to apply to Genesis and Bitstamp, in addition to Gemini.

I really don't like Gemini's use of Authy for 2FA.

[lightfoot]

Main advantage of litecoin: You can go to the bitcoin ATM, put in your LTC, and in about 2 minutes tops the money pops out. With bitcoin that can take 20-30 minutes.

So for hooker speed transactions it's the way to go.

[jojo69]

HOOKER SPEED!

[lightfoot]

Ok, that was perfect.

[jojo69]

dude...you ARE on the WO thread

got to keep the standards up

[Gab0]

I'm sorry, but I can not understand it. I do not understand the logic behind that.
I know that it is very annoying to quote Satoshi, but his original idea was that anyone could make a transansation with another, without the need of a third party; He even talked about small payments. I understand that his words are not absolute truths, and that he may also have made mistakes, but, that is far from wanting to convert bitcoin into a tool of a new plutocracy, in a type of money that only new oligarchs can use. That's what I have trouble understanding.
And maybe they are right, maybe it does not collapse, and we see the birth of a new economy and oligarchy, but not different from the previous ones in ethical terms.

The problem is, the world is one of INSTANT GRATIFICATION. People like you are not patient. Right now BTC is not good as a means of micro transactions. It is better as a store of wealth.

Give bitcoin another 5+ YEARS.  The internet was not built in a day.

There are very few people in the world that don't want to see bitcoin be able to be used as all sorts of things. But its going to take time.

If you are so impatient that you can't wait, go invest all your money in some altcoin and pray they can figure it all out more quickly for you.

You're right. It is perhaps the impatience, and the anguish of seeing how the large fees are gradually exempting users and cases of use (I say this since I was dedicated to resell retail bitcoins).
And it seems to me (I may be wrong, but it is my opinion) that many of these problems could be avoided with a simple increase in size; a solution that we currently have in our hands. We are not even talking about 1GB blocks. I'm talking about an increase that can avoid problems, traffic jams, dislikes caused by the congestion of the network, while the second layers, LN, etc. arrive.

But, independent of that - since my intention is not to discuss whether it is good or bad to increase the block size -, I am tired of seeing the insistent attacks on the same people and the use of the same arguments. Okay, we all know how nefarious they are. But there is a real problem, that was my point, and there is no constructive talk about that.

And no, I would not invest in another currency. I entered into bitcoin for philosophical convictions, because I believe in its political and economic project; and that can not be found in another currency.

No

I am sorry.

I mistook you for our garden variety troll, and I apologize.  I see now that you have an actual concern, one I share as a matter of fact. 

You bring up a valid point.  I can see how my attitude displayed above could be seen as every bit as distasteful as the bigblocker "if you don't have $20,000 [to spend on a full node] to help this network then fuck you".

I sincerely wish that the scaling debate could have remained civil...but this is the world we live in, and I am not prepared to cede control of the potentially most liberating technology ever conceived to the current big block cabal.

Yes, a microtransaction crypto implementation would be nice, perhaps Litecoin, perhaps L2/offchain solutions...but not shoddy, untested and hastilly implemented code on THIS blockchain...NO, the market has said no.

LOL. I can sound like a troll product of my bad language, but my concern is real. I appreciate your response.

[HairyMaclairy]

Gab0:

No.  

Sometimes the obvious answer is the wrong answer.  The block size limit is a technical security parameter to defend against spam attacks.  The reason fees are so high is because Bitcoin is $16,000 at the moment.

You need patience.  Lightning Network is already in beta. We will have Lightning within a year.

If you cannot wait a year, then Bitcoin is maybe not the right coin for you.  There are plenty of other coins to choose from.  

If you wish to engage in a long discussion of the merits of large block vs small block, then this thread is not the right place to do it.

[TERA2]

For it to be a double top, it would have have to have slowly approached the top, slower or at the same speed as the descent - Not quickly spike all the way back up like it did.

[Dabs]

So, let me get this straight:

1. You say that Andreas Antonopoulos is wrong.
2. Bitcoin is not a store of value.
3. Bitcoin is not a unit of account.
4. Bitcoin is not a medium of exchange.
5. Bitcoin is not decentralized. (thousands of full nodes, thousands of miners, dozens of pools, bunch of devs who all joined voluntarily.)
6. Bitcoin is a scam. And a lie.
7. Bitcoin is worthless.
8. You bought silver paid for with bitcoin.

Another day of converting worthless bitcoin into physical silver

The fact bitcoin requires a permanent development team to constantly fiddle with different variables on a daily basis means it's a technocratic dictatorship by definition already on th development side, while PoW is designed to centralize through economy of scale on the mining side.

No, you're repeating scams and lies, because the base bitcoin network is not even close to decentralized.  PoW is designed to centralize through economy of scale and then people claim it requires a permanent technocratic dictatorship on the development side too.

[MarquiseMuseum]

Maybe its a bubble top, not a double top

[Gab0]

You need patience.  Lightning Network is already in beta. We will have Lightning within a year.

If you cannot wait a year, then Bitcoin is maybe not the right coin for you.  There are plenty of other coins to choose from.  

If you wish to engage in a long discussion of the merits of large block vs small block, then this thread is not the right place to do it.

I understand that this is not the place to discuss this topic, and as I said, it is not my intention to do so.

I bought my first coin in 2012, and most likely I keep that same coin for decades. It's not my problem waiting. My problem, I insist on this, is that the protocol is expelling cases of use (my small enterprise for example) and users that can not pay large sums of money to acquire bitcoins.
Honestly, I hope they are right, and that the obstacle represented by the bitcoin's scalability is resolved.

[Rosewater Foundation]

Andreas Antonopoulos is only a half-millionaire. Roger is a multi-millionaire, so quick maths, he has to be right. Ipso facto. And stop calling it Bcash.

Maybe its a bubble top, not a double top

I'm going to name my first tulip after you.

[JayJuanGee]

Maybe its a bubble top, not a double top

What is the difference between a bubble top and a double top?

Sounds like an attempt to describe the same concept, no?

[TERA2]

A double top was only the top of the China bubble in late 2013. Every other bubble had a single top.

[JimboToronto]

Maybe its a bubble top, not a double top

I'm going to name my first tulip after you.

 

[Icygreen]

So a recap of what I see/speculate on this past week.
Bitcoin gains more public interest and awareness due to price rise while lots of newcomers buy for the first time.
Roger, jihan, Wright and friends collude to spam the network for high transaction costs while shilling for BCH and comparing transaction costs to gain the support of small transaction buyers.
New buyers who bought small amounts are confronted with the decision on whether or not to send their recent purchases to a wallet from coinbase with high costs (currently around $ USD 15).
Many buyers decide to move into litecoin for cheaper transactions thus proving that the lightning network is a solution, at least for now.
It seems Roger and friends are not out of moves yet and I expect to see even higher transaction costs before the market settles this for good.

Summary: we prefer litecoin and/ or high fees to centralized, hijacking b-cash.

[TERA2]

Its more than a bitcoin bubble now. Its a blockchain bubble. Its going to end up taking down a portion of the economy.