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Poll
Question: How much of your corn do you plan on cashing out in the next massive bull run?
None - 19 (20.4%)
1-10% - 11 (11.8%)
11-20% - 12 (12.9%)
21-30% - 15 (16.1%)
31-40% - 4 (4.3%)
41-50% - 10 (10.8%)
51-60% - 7 (7.5%)
61-70% - 5 (5.4%)
71-80% - 3 (3.2%)
81-90% - 2 (2.2%)
91-99% - 0 (0%)
100% - 5 (5.4%)
Total Voters: 93

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Author Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion  (Read 21780794 times)
This is a self-moderated topic. If you do not want to be moderated by the person who started this topic, create a new topic. (147 posts by 36 users deleted.)
Searing
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July 02, 2019, 08:01:07 PM
Merited by eddie13 (1)

Can we swipe?
I will be happy with half of your stash. 🤪

Please give me the one on the right 🙂

Sigh, surely a nerd like yourself can 'spring' some bitcoin from the HODL stash and have both?

Who'd have thunk that such women would find you or me so attractive for our knowledge and technical expertise in Bitcoin!

I mean, they are just fascinated!

Also, right after such conversations, they feel to urge to shop!

Funny, how that all is interconnected. I must be getting more handsome and dashing as I get older! (Legend in my own mind!) Smiley

Girls also seem to need a lot more 'stuff' than I previously realized after such technical debates. Whew.

Brad

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July 02, 2019, 08:01:56 PM

THIS IS BTCITCOIN



Please give me the one on the right 🙂

Fine, I'll force myself to take the left one. Smiley
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yes


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July 02, 2019, 08:13:56 PM

While you are discussing girls, let me check on the price action.

What do you mean, sub $9k ?!

/history
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July 02, 2019, 08:14:28 PM

So I haven't traded in a very long time, but I can't resist shorting this. What's the best US platform to short bitcoin? With lots of leverage?

Bitmex has 100x leverage, but do not allow US customers. I'm not sure if that would be an issue for you or not. Also, they only settle in BTC. They don't accept deposits of fiat or any other cryptocurrency. (As far as I know, I haven't traded with them in about a year, and they have now blocked my account.)
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July 02, 2019, 08:20:08 PM

So I haven't traded in a very long time, but I can't resist shorting this. What's the best US platform to short bitcoin? With lots of leverage?

Bitmex has 100x leverage, but do not allow US customers. I'm not sure if that would be an issue for you or not. Also, they only settle in BTC. They don't accept deposits of fiat or any other cryptocurrency. (As far as I know, I haven't traded with them in about a year, and they have now blocked my account.)


@proudhon, let us know your position as we are all pulling for you. Smiley
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July 02, 2019, 08:20:45 PM

So I haven't traded in a very long time, but I can't resist shorting this. What's the best US platform to short bitcoin? With lots of leverage?

go with a DEMO account on BitMex --> https://testnet.bitmex.com/

trust me you won't need more with your BTC history  Grin
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July 02, 2019, 08:27:05 PM
Last edit: July 02, 2019, 09:01:54 PM by JSRAW

Never heard about him, ignorance but it appears to me that Peter brandt was famous trader? RIP
his twitter account is active (team maybe) and article published 22 hour ago  Huh
https://twitter.com/peterlbrandt?lang=en

https://coinjazeera.news/peter-brandt-dies-of-old-age-in-longest-trade-ever/

Satire-fake news Wink

I'm afraid that he is still around.  Grin


This article is satire and for entertainment purposes only.

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How much alt coin diversification is needed? 0%?


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July 02, 2019, 08:36:36 PM
Last edit: July 02, 2019, 09:21:40 PM by JayJuanGee


Explain ur selfie.   Angry Angry


Edit:

Oh?  So you are saying that if someone sent coins to the genesis block, then they would have done that because of a bet or a dare or something?  Like burning coins?

My understanding is that the genesis block can never be spent, and that was part of the price of the first transaction.
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July 02, 2019, 08:36:54 PM

I’m not getting out of bed until it at least matches yesterday’s high around $11,230.
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July 02, 2019, 08:51:19 PM

I’m not getting out of bed until it at least matches yesterday’s high around $11,230.

Narrator, year 2050: And some say, he remains in bed to this day.
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July 02, 2019, 08:55:26 PM
Merited by JSRAW (1)

Never heard about him, ignorance but it appears to me that Peter brandt was famous trader? RIP
his twitter account is active (team maybe) and article published 22 hour ago  Huh
https://twitter.com/peterlbrandt?lang=en

https://coinjazeera.news/peter-brandt-dies-of-old-age-in-longest-trade-ever/

I'm afraid that he is still around.  Grin


This article is satire and for entertainment purposes only.

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July 02, 2019, 08:59:04 PM

Never heard about him, ignorance but it appears to me that Peter brandt was famous trader? RIP
his twitter account is active (team maybe) and article published 22 hour ago  Huh
https://twitter.com/peterlbrandt?lang=en

https://coinjazeera.news/peter-brandt-dies-of-old-age-in-longest-trade-ever/

I'm afraid that he is still around.  Grin


This article is satire and for entertainment purposes only.


yeah was about to update Cheesy
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July 02, 2019, 09:11:18 PM

I do not like the $600 candle, there is little volume.

Hot bed for manipulation at the moment. So many clueless day traders getting burnt I reckon.
Can you imagine being a Localbitcoins day trader in the current market -

‘Buy in the morning from an exchange’
‘Quick....list for sale on LBC for 5% above market value’
‘OH FUCKKKKK, the price has dumped $1,000’


Yep, the price went up too fast, killing any newbie HODL action, then on top of that, speculators now burnt also. Hard to get traction with newbies and adoption with this kinda stuff.

Maybe enough got burnt on this BTC runup that we got some HODL'ers out of this, but I doubt it. So unless other from 2017 newbies have bought in and have the sense to HODL now,

I think it just made the whole crypto scene look stupid and manipulated (which it probably is anyway) and just turned off a lot of folks who would have ridden the price up to 12k slowly.

I guess we need a sideways price to get some folk back. Again, Bitcoin price is still 2x the amount it was on 4/5/19 at $5050 USD. So there is hope. Bitcoin is an 'evil mistress' Sad

Brad

Frequently, you are such a negative nancy, searing.

Experienced bitcoiners realize that volatility is a part of bitcoin, and chances for actual meaningful or long lasting "stability" is mostly a fantasy, and not part of bitcoin's underlying situation - which happens to be at some early stage of an exponential s-curve adoption.

Newbies can dollar cost average or buy and hold for the long term.  They should also be capable to look at charts in order to recognize bitcoin for what it is - a volatile beast - without getting their hopes up higher than they need to be by investing an amount that does not cause them too much anxiety - and DCA should be able to help with that, too.


Well, you can't have the newbies slap'd down in mass on 40% corrections every time that bitcoin pumps. All it does is kick the ETF farther down the road and sets back adoption, IMHO.

You believe that honey badger bitcoin gives any ratt's asses about newbies and/or the extent to which whales attempt to manipulate it?


I doubt it.  the market is going to do what they are going to do, and manipulators are going to manipulate as much as they are able to accomplish and attempt to shake as many coins as they are able to shake out of the trees, whether those are newbie trees or other dumb money... If they are able to shake, then manipulators are going to do it (or at least die trying).

So let's stop trying to be proscriptive about bitcoin.. It is what it is. 

Big block nutjobs, bitcoin naysayers, alt coin pumpers, FUD spreaders and no coiners spout out these kinds of nonsensical attempts to assert their wishes upon bitcoin, such as bitcoin should be more stable, blah blah blah, rather than accepting bitcoin for what it is, which is volatile as fuck... and bitcoin is likely to continue to be volatile as fuck until it reaches such a large market cap that it becomes way too difficult to manipulate.  Perhaps we need another 1000x of market cap growth, but even that might not be enough... so we should learn to accept bitcoin for what it is, and one of the most certain things about bitcoin is that it is going to continue to be volatile and to perform in directions that are sometimes beyond expectations in one direction or another.

Hardly negative to say that the FOMO is killing adoption as it pops up in such a manner.

Yeah... but it is negative to complain about something that you cannot change and even to focus on it as if there should be attempts to change it, when it is an intrinsic part of such an immature market that only has less than 1%  adoption of the world's population.

I realize it is how Bitcoin 'rolls' but still, hard to see how Bitcoin is this erratic is ever going to get mainstream adoption. Just saying.

Mainstream is going to come when it is going to come.  There is no need to either rush mainstream  or to expect that bitcoin has to pander to attempting to getting mainstream.  Again, that sounds like one of those dumbass bcasher talking points.  Trying to make bitcoin into something before the market is even ready for it. 


Also, it is one thing for 'experienced bitcoin's" to know this, we learned this at like $100 BTC, damn hard to learn this lesson like we did when the price of Bitcoin was low when the avenues are closing on accumulation. So you accumulate by buying, in this FOMO world of BTC, that is easier said than done!

IMHO<most of the HODL'ers like myself got into this and accumulated Bitcoin by Mining. Which is no longer the case, that ship has sailed.

Now it is buying or not buy. This just complicates the new adoption of Bitcoin and/or any crypto for that manner.

Maybe you are getting too obsessed about unit price?  Who cares?  People will get in when they get in, and they are not going to necessarily be disadvantaged by coming in later, even though they would have made more money to come in earlier

The gist of the matter is that earlier adopters, such as peeps already getting into bitcoin, are going to advantage more than later adopters, but that is just the way things work, and you cannot force later adopters to become early adopters because they have to decide for themselves when they are going to get in and if they are going to get in under the terms that are presented before them.  Most of the people have no fucking clue what bitcoin is, even if they have heard the name.  And, even people who know more about bitcoin are frequently scared little chicken shits and afraid to buy because they think the price is too high.  Well, if they choose not to buy now, then they are likely going to have to buy later when the price is higher.  It is their choice whether to attempt to learn about it or to take some risks in order to invest early.

Of course, early investors take more risk, but they get more rewards too..... Later investors will come when the risk becomes less, but they are not going to get as many rewards, either because by the time that the vast majority of peeps start to feel comfortable with bitcoin, then it is not going to be appreciating in the same kind of way that it is now, even though it tends to take several years for up/down cycles to play out in such a way that the HODLers are damned likely to profit immensely as long as they don't allow their selfies to get shaken out by the noise, manipulation, FUD and other extremes that cause considerable price movements.



But again, not a chance in hell for the next year IMHO, of any ETF on the horizon.

Who cares?  If an ETF comes, then it comes, if it doesn't then it doesn't.  Bitcoin is going to appreciate in price and development and even in stability whether an ETF comes or not.

Sure an ETF would likely cause BTC's price to appreciate a whole hell of a lot faster, but largely it does not matter because we are likely to be rich whether ETF or no ETF as long as we continue to HODL and not get shaken out of our coins.

IF we had reached 12k in a more stable less FOMO manner, I'd say we would have had a good shot.


You are complaining about something that cannot really be controlled, and seems to me to be a waste of energy to either be focusing on such matters or even hoping that bitcoin would evolve in a direction that it is not going to evolve... worse yet would be to try to work in a direction to force bitcoin to become more stable when bitcoin is good as it is and good as a creature of the free market.

Now not so much. Along with with the above, every time 'newbies' get the traction they are 'creamed' by the volatility, well again, as I stated, perhaps those who did not HODL on the last downturn, bought BTC on the FOMO ride up and learned enough to HODL now. I am a bit pessimistic that is a large number of returning folk to Bitcoin, however.

Well, you seem to be describing dumb money and weak hands, and you can hardly stop from having dummies and weak hands, they are part of any free and open market.

Furthermore bitcoin is one of the most open markets, so it is much easier to enter and much easier for dumb money and weak hands to enter.  They will either learn or they may have to come back later after getting over their butt hurtness..... There are ways to figure out strategies, and we already know a lot of good strategies for newbies, and some will learn the strategies, and others will get burned... that is the way of the world.. I don't see any need to put in better protections, and surely I make my own attempts to educate all peeps about good strategies, whether they are smart or dumb and whether they are newbies or not, so the better information is available for anyone who attempt to spend some time to learn rather than listening to scammers and making dumb investment moves.


Yeah, perhaps you are right, but just saying this is a 'pattern' that has to change in some mannner someday or any larger scale adoption my not come to be, IMHO.

Brad

I am right that you are overly negative.  Adoption is going to come, even if the earlier days tend to be brutal, and good or bad, we still seem to be experiencing very early days that will allow a lot of new entrants to profit enormously as long as they try to learn good strategies and don't try to rush and make too many dumb moves.  Every newbie is going to make some mistakes along the way, but it is possible to learn along the way, too, and to just continue to HODL and accumulate and don't invest more than you can lose, and after several years, they are likely going to do quite well by exercising some persistence in their strategies and their continued attempts to learn along the way.
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July 02, 2019, 09:33:36 PM

https://coinjazeera.news/peter-brandt-dies-of-old-age-in-longest-trade-ever/

Now that was the funniest shit I've read in a long time, thx for the link guys. Smiley
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July 02, 2019, 09:39:53 PM

I do not like the $600 candle, there is little volume.

Hot bed for manipulation at the moment. So many clueless day traders getting burnt I reckon.
Can you imagine being a Localbitcoins day trader in the current market -

‘Buy in the morning from an exchange’
‘Quick....list for sale on LBC for 5% above market value’
‘OH FUCKKKKK, the price has dumped $1,000’


Yep, the price went up too fast, killing any newbie HODL action, then on top of that, speculators now burnt also. Hard to get traction with newbies and adoption with this kinda stuff.

Maybe enough got burnt on this BTC runup that we got some HODL'ers out of this, but I doubt it. So unless other from 2017 newbies have bought in and have the sense to HODL now,

I think it just made the whole crypto scene look stupid and manipulated (which it probably is anyway) and just turned off a lot of folks who would have ridden the price up to 12k slowly.

I guess we need a sideways price to get some folk back. Again, Bitcoin price is still 2x the amount it was on 4/5/19 at $5050 USD. So there is hope. Bitcoin is an 'evil mistress' Sad

Brad

Frequently, you are such a negative nancy, searing.

Experienced bitcoiners realize that volatility is a part of bitcoin, and chances for actual meaningful or long lasting "stability" is mostly a fantasy, and not part of bitcoin's underlying situation - which happens to be at some early stage of an exponential s-curve adoption.

Newbies can dollar cost average or buy and hold for the long term.  They should also be capable to look at charts in order to recognize bitcoin for what it is - a volatile beast - without getting their hopes up higher than they need to be by investing an amount that does not cause them too much anxiety - and DCA should be able to help with that, too.


Well, you can't have the newbies slap'd down in mass on 40% corrections every time that bitcoin pumps. All it does is kick the ETF farther down the road and sets back adoption, IMHO.

You believe that honey badger bitcoin gives any ratt's asses about newbies and/or the extent to which whales attempt to manipulate it?


I doubt it.  the market is going to do what they are going to do, and manipulators are going to manipulate as much as they are able to accomplish and attempt to shake as many coins as they are able to shake out of the trees, whether those are newbie trees or other dumb money... If they are able to shake, then manipulators are going to do it (or at least die trying).

So let's stop trying to be proscriptive about bitcoin.. It is what it is.  

Big block nutjobs, bitcoin naysayers, alt coin pumpers, FUD spreaders and no coiners spout out these kinds of nonsensical attempts to assert their wishes upon bitcoin, such as bitcoin should be more stable, blah blah blah, rather than accepting bitcoin for what it is, which is volatile as fuck... and bitcoin is likely to continue to be volatile as fuck until it reaches such a large market cap that it becomes way too difficult to manipulate.  Perhaps we need another 1000x of market cap growth, but even that might not be enough... so we should learn to accept bitcoin for what it is, and one of the most certain things about bitcoin is that it is going to continue to be volatile and to perform in directions that are sometimes beyond expectations in one direction or another.

Hardly negative to say that the FOMO is killing adoption as it pops up in such a manner.

Yeah... but it is negative to complain about something that you cannot change and even to focus on it as if there should be attempts to change it, when it is an intrinsic part of such an immature market that only has less than 1%  adoption of the world's population.

I realize it is how Bitcoin 'rolls' but still, hard to see how Bitcoin is this erratic is ever going to get mainstream adoption. Just saying.

Mainstream is going to come when it is going to come.  There is no need to either rush mainstream  or to expect that bitcoin has to pander to attempting to getting mainstream.  Again, that sounds like one of those dumbass bcasher talking points.  Trying to make bitcoin into something before the market is even ready for it.  


Also, it is one thing for 'experienced bitcoin's" to know this, we learned this at like $100 BTC, damn hard to learn this lesson like we did when the price of Bitcoin was low when the avenues are closing on accumulation. So you accumulate by buying, in this FOMO world of BTC, that is easier said than done!

IMHO<most of the HODL'ers like myself got into this and accumulated Bitcoin by Mining. Which is no longer the case, that ship has sailed.

Now it is buying or not buy. This just complicates the new adoption of Bitcoin and/or any crypto for that manner.

Maybe you are getting too obsessed about unit price?  Who cares?  People will get in when they get in, and they are not going to necessarily be disadvantaged by coming in later, even though they would have made more money to come in earlier

The gist of the matter is that earlier adopters, such as peeps already getting into bitcoin, are going to advantage more than later adopters, but that is just the way things work, and you cannot force later adopters to become early adopters because they have to decide for themselves when they are going to get in and if they are going to get in under the terms that are presented before them.  Most of the people have no fucking clue what bitcoin is, even if they have heard the name.  And, even people who know more about bitcoin are frequently scared little chicken shits and afraid to buy because they think the price is too high.  Well, if they choose not to buy now, then they are likely going to have to buy later when the price is higher.  It is their choice whether to attempt to learn about it or to take some risks in order to invest early.

Of course, early investors take more risk, but they get more rewards too..... Later investors will come when the risk becomes less, but they are not going to get as many rewards, either because by the time that the vast majority of peeps start to feel comfortable with bitcoin, then it is not going to be appreciating in the same kind of way that it is now, even though it tends to take several years for up/down cycles to play out in such a way that the HODLers are damned likely to profit immensely as long as they don't allow their selfies to get shaken out by the noise, manipulation, FUD and other extremes that cause considerable price movements.



But again, not a chance in hell for the next year IMHO, of any ETF on the horizon.

Who cares?  If an ETF comes, then it comes, if it doesn't then it doesn't.  Bitcoin is going to appreciate in price and development and even in stability whether an ETF comes or not.

Sure an ETF would likely cause BTC's price to appreciate a whole hell of a lot faster, but largely it does not matter because we are likely to be rich whether ETF or no ETF as long as we continue to HODL and not get shaken out of our coins.

IF we had reached 12k in a more stable less FOMO manner, I'd say we would have had a good shot.


You are complaining about something that cannot really be controlled, and seems to me to be a waste of energy to either be focusing on such matters or even hoping that bitcoin would evolve in a direction that it is not going to evolve... worse yet would be to try to work in a direction to force bitcoin to become more stable when bitcoin is good as it is and good as a creature of the free market.

Now not so much. Along with with the above, every time 'newbies' get the traction they are 'creamed' by the volatility, well again, as I stated, perhaps those who did not HODL on the last downturn, bought BTC on the FOMO ride up and learned enough to HODL now. I am a bit pessimistic that is a large number of returning folk to Bitcoin, however.

Well, you seem to be describing dumb money and weak hands, and you can hardly stop from having dummies and weak hands, they are part of any free and open market.

Furthermore bitcoin is one of the most open markets, so it is much easier to enter and much easier for dumb money and weak hands to enter.  They will either learn or they may have to come back later after getting over their butt hurtness..... There are ways to figure out strategies, and we already know a lot of good strategies for newbies, and some will learn the strategies, and others will get burned... that is the way of the world.. I don't see any need to put in better protections, and surely I make my own attempts to educate all peeps about good strategies, whether they are smart or dumb and whether they are newbies or not, so the better information is available for anyone who attempt to spend some time to learn rather than listening to scammers and making dumb investment moves.


Yeah, perhaps you are right, but just saying this is a 'pattern' that has to change in some mannner someday or any larger scale adoption my not come to be, IMHO.

Brad

I am right that you are overly negative.  Adoption is going to come, even if the earlier days tend to be brutal, and good or bad, we still seem to be experiencing very early days that will allow a lot of new entrants to profit enormously as long as they try to learn good strategies and don't try to rush and make too many dumb moves.  Every newbie is going to make some mistakes along the way, but it is possible to learn along the way, too, and to just continue to HODL and accumulate and don't invest more than you can lose, and after several years, they are likely going to do quite well by exercising some persistence in their strategies and their continued attempts to learn along the way.


I disagree. In each case FOMO happens in the manner it just happens, IMHO, it kills adoption by the masses and the powers that be a bit more. Eventually, something else will

come along and replace Bitcoin, if this keeps up. Between the hodgepodge of POW mining and the fact that adoption is not, again IMHO, keeping up with the speculation and

HODL'ing of Bitcoin, anyway this is THE slippery slope, IMHO.

Perhaps you are right nothing can be done about this, but there is no reason to think the odds are not any worse for Bitcoin ricocheting down on each FOMO/PUMP with

loss of adoption and looking half-assed to the folk who have the big money to invest in this experiment... then it is that such actions and FOMO will lead to 20k coin and beyond.

The jury is out. I'm just pointing out that EVENTUALLY, such stuff will have to shake out in a more even manner between Mining/HODL/Speculation and Adoption. So in my view

the dangers I mention is the 'red-headed step-child' Adoption, that is way beyond the curve with Bitcoin.

We will see but this is indeed my 'bugaboo' about Bitcoin and its lack of adoption. You take away folk from back in the day like me that HODL and we have not seen a sh*tload

of progress in adoption IMHO. Less so if you toss in whale games and speculation.

Store of Value wise, this is not gonna fly long term, again IMHO, without some decent adoption in a more sustainable manner. Perhaps that will be the case from this point on,

but if not, I don't agree that newbies mean sh*t...they are the future and so far the newbies I talk to want nothing to do with Bitcoin after being burnt twice.

Again, Chump or Champ we will be the first to know, but adoption in my view is the lagging variable in our 10 year Bitcoin Experiment and FOMO/PUMPS/RETREATS will, again,

IMHO, have to less dramatic or we have no shot at a store of value long term for Bitcoin as the Virtual Gold that everyone assumes.

A store of value that can dump 40% off/on WITHOUT more adoption is unsustainable IMHO.

Like everyone else I'm just 'winging it' and guessing, but this is the part of Bitcoin that needs to be 'tamed' somewhat for more adoption and from my view and we need more

stability and less of this for more adoption and less centralization of Bitcoin (new HODL'ers) this is crucial or no one NEW big money or small money will play...it will just be

the same old actors since 2013-2015. Right or Wrong that is how I see this, also as a 'possibility this as panning out with Bitcoin, that it never quite gets up to speed without

the above I see needed for adoption by more folk.

Brad
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July 02, 2019, 09:45:32 PM
Last edit: July 02, 2019, 10:01:32 PM by toknormal


Sometimes mainstream economists who are sceptical of bitcoin at a conscious level actually justify its existence at a subconscious level.

Steve Keen is one such economist.

He writes off bitcoin due to its "ridiculous" energy budget, but in a previous lecture he identified the need for a "dis-saving entity" that would compensate for the currency that went out of circulation due to savers "parking" their capital. He argues that the "dis-saving entity" can be created by "bookkeeping". But the reality is it has to come from outside the bookkeeping realm since bookkeeping alone cannot create "capital" it can only account for it.

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July 02, 2019, 10:32:15 PM

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I disagree. In each case FOMO happens in the manner it just happens, IMHO, it kills adoption by the masses and the powers that be a bit more. Eventually, something else will come along and replace Bitcoin, if this keeps up.

Nothing is even close to replacing bitcoin.  Sir, thou doth protest too much, me thinks.



Between the hodgepodge of POW mining and the fact that adoption is not, again IMHO, keeping up with the speculation and HODL'ing of Bitcoin, anyway this is THE slippery slope, IMHO.

Mostly what I see is your speculations about negatives that largely do not exist.... and even if they do, they are not as BIG of a deal that you are making them out to be.


Perhaps you are right nothing can be done about this, but there is no reason to think the odds are not any worse for Bitcoin ricocheting down on each FOMO/PUMP with loss of adoption and looking half-assed to the folk who have the big money to invest in this experiment... then it is that such actions and FOMO will lead to 20k coin and beyond.

The facts seem to be going the opposite of your fears, including the fact that the price is going up.  Yeah, maybe you believe that the price going up is mere manipulation and not really based on anything, but there also seems to be a bit of evidence out there that financialization had been tending to lead this last pump, and some of the BIG boys are seeming to want to get in on bitcoin before anyone else, and I could give two shits about whether they are able to sustain their interest or not or whether some of them are trying to manipulate the price or not, it becomes quite difficult for even some of these supposed BIG boys to stop the momentum when it begins to go up, and it really does not matter if they attempt to manipulate or they attempt to front run the 2020 halvening or they give up on bitcoin, honey badger doesn't care, and she is going UP wether the BIG boys front run her and manipulate her or not.... even if it could take a bit longer before we are richer than fuck... and even if along the way we are only merely regular rich. 

Either way, any of us who are in bitcoin should be able to take measures to protect ourselves to prepare for both ups and downs, and in the long run as long as we continue to accumulate bitcoin, we are going to be way the fuck ahead of the game, even if there happens to be some delay because manipulators are having some temporary success in manipulating DOWN rather than UP, yet they can only keep this BAD BOY down for so long... and many of us who are buying and accumulating already know that bitcoin is an asymmetric bet towards the upside, even though it is not guaranteed, but the odds are damned good that in the long run we are going up rather than down.. and manipulation attempts are going to continue to be attempted along the way.


The jury is out.

O.k.  Fair enough.  We will see how some of this plays out.  Could be up or could be down.  We should prepare for either direction and both directions all at the same time.

I'm just pointing out that EVENTUALLY, such stuff will have to shake out in a more even manner between Mining/HODL/Speculation and Adoption.

"Eventually" we are all going to be dead too.  So, we just play it for what works for us.  So far bitcoin still is the best investment in town, so I don't know what you are so worried about in regards to how things are going to "shake out."   Everything is a moving target and there are a lot of players in bitcoin that cause a whole hell of a lot of networking effects in bitcoin that are building and building and building all at the same time, even while BTC's price is going up and down, and again, no other coin or project is even close to bitcoin in terms of these various network effects.

So in my view the dangers I mention is the 'red-headed step-child' Adoption, that is way beyond the curve with Bitcoin.


No real need for me to repeat that I believe that you are giving way too much weight to one thing that is likely to play out, and sure it could take 50 years before really seeing it play out, but I still believe that less than 1% adoption is where we are at, and we are going to see magnitudes of increases in BTC's price, even if we merely get to 5% in five years. 

We will see but this is indeed my 'bugaboo' about Bitcoin and its lack of adoption. You take away folk from back in the day like me that HODL and we have not seen a sh*tload of progress in adoption IMHO. Less so if you toss in whale games and speculation.


Are you talking about retail adoption?  or something else?  There seems to be a whole hell of a lot of exchanges that are coming onto the scene, so I think that matters are evolving sufficiently well... Yeah, it would be nice if there was better tax treatment for spending coins, but there seems to be more and more awareness of bitcoin all around the world, and some of the developments and even the entrances of some of the BIGGER players could increase some of the use cases too... My point is that development and adoption takes place within a lot of spheres, and if you are merely referring to one kind of adoption that you would like to see more of, then seems that you are too focused on one thing because there is constant activity and development in the space that should be keeping it excited for anyone who is trying to accept bitcoin for what it is rather than trying to proscribe on it some kind of set of expectation visions and then proclaim that bitcoin is not filling those expectation visions.  That seems like self-defeating thinking and a kind of non-acceptance of bitcoin for what it is and directions that it has been developing, including every single year since it's inception.

Store of Value wise, this is not gonna fly long term, again IMHO, without some decent adoption in a more sustainable manner.

It's already doing pretty well in regards to store of value.  I can take my store of value anywhere in the world, and nobody can say shit about it.

Try doing that with some other asset.


Perhaps that will be the case from this point on, but if not, I don't agree that newbies mean sh*t...they are the future and so far the newbies I talk to want nothing to do with Bitcoin after being burnt twice.

Maybe you are talking with the wrong people?  There are certainly a lot of people out there who are interested in bitcoin, and are taking measures to learn more about it.  Look at the number of podcasts about purely bitcoin... whoaza!!!!!   Growing exponentially.  There are so many god damed bitcoin experts that it amazes me to try to keep with the ongoing free buzz that is available for bitcoiners, and it is just growing and growing and growing, from my perspective.  Some people I listen to, and I say to myself "holy fuck!!!!!"  Some people know so much, and they have been in the space for only a short period of time, too.  That is only increasing and only going to continue to increase, from my perspective, and if some dumb negative whiners cannot figure it out and at least figure out some way to get themselves on board or to start to buy in, then they are likely going to be chasing the bitcoin train when we are a lot higher prices, such  as in the supra $30k arena.... and then they might end up getting burned again, but that is because they are unable or unwilling to figure out a strategy for today in order to prepare for a future that is quite likely to happen... and that is higher BTC prices...

Again, Chump or Champ we will be the first to know, but adoption in my view is the lagging variable in our 10 year Bitcoin Experiment and FOMO/PUMPS/RETREATS will, again, IMHO, have to less dramatic or we have no shot at a store of value long term for Bitcoin as the Virtual Gold that everyone assumes.

I am glad that you are not advising (or an expert) on this topic, because you seem to giving too much weight to a factor that matters a whole hell of a lot less than you are making it out to.

A store of value that can dump 40% off/on WITHOUT more adoption is unsustainable IMHO.

Yeah, but that is NOT what is happening.

Whenever we get large price increases, we normally get decently good size corrections.  Yeah, of course they can be in the 15% to 25% territory, but it is not unusual to have corrections that are in 30% to 50% arena.  Largely, if they start to get to be greater than 50%, then they seem to drag out longer, but if they are quickie drops, then the BTC price might bounce back in a kind of "normal" correction.

I don't understand why you want to harp so much on this in order to attempt to describe it as being less normal than it is....

Like everyone else I'm just 'winging it' and guessing,

I can see that and seems to be that what you are saying is quite "out there" recently, especially when you are getting so worked up about normal market movements.

but this is the part of Bitcoin that needs to be 'tamed' somewhat for more adoption and from my view and we need more stability and less of this for more adoption 

You might be right, but making money from bitcoin means early adoption, which means higher volatility and higher risk, and once bitcoin matures, then the volatility will go down and adoption will go up, but it can take a long time to get there... so we are not there, yet, but lack of stability is not going to stop honey badger from doing what is going to do, which is largely go up in price in the coming years... and probably even more likely in the next two years around this next halvening.


and less centralization of Bitcoin (new HODL'ers) this is crucial or no one NEW big money or small money will play...it will just be the same old actors since 2013-2015.  Right or Wrong that is how I see this, also as a 'possibility this as panning out with Bitcoin, that it never quite gets up to speed without the above I see needed for adoption by more folk.

Brad
 

Again, you seem to be failing to appreciate that bitcoin is continuing to grow, and you are harping on some perception that it is not growing fast enough in the way that you would like, and therefore, it is DOOMED... blah blah blah..

Seems like you have blinders on with your maniacal focus on this adoption thingie-ma-jiggie and suggesting that newbies are being scared out of the market by manipulation.
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July 02, 2019, 10:36:35 PM

When will Thursday ever come?
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July 02, 2019, 10:40:14 PM

Gold pumping like a shitcoin. Guess some insiders knew well in advance about
TRUMP SAYS HE'LL NOMINATE CHRISTOPHER WALLER TO FED BOARD
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July 02, 2019, 10:42:21 PM

When will Thursday ever come?

Once a week, dumb ass.


lol


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