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Question: When will BTC get back above $70K:
7/14 - 0 (0%)
7/21 - 1 (0.8%)
7/28 - 11 (9.1%)
8/4 - 16 (13.2%)
8/11 - 7 (5.8%)
8/18 - 6 (5%)
8/25 - 8 (6.6%)
After August - 72 (59.5%)
Total Voters: 121

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Author Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion  (Read 26485513 times)
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December 17, 2023, 08:39:03 AM

It's been a while since I posted a "Saturday Long Read", so allow me to hit you with this little one...

Bank... bank?  Did Someone say Bank?


In hindsight, it was inevitable.
We are all hyped up over the ETFs.  As usual we are fixated on something important while we miss the thing that really is the MOST important.  Remember Baakt?  Or is it Bakkt?  Does anyone even know? That was going to launch us into HYPERBITCOINIZATION!  And here we are again... this cycle's hype is ETFs!  Wait... ummm didn't we also try this one before?  It's like the China bans.  We will gladly lap up the same narratives over and over.  Well ETFs ARE coming.  Someday.  Eventually.  But Blackrock, and the others are not the only ones playing.  The powerful people had to figure out Bitcoin eventually, and now the race is on to define who controls the most of it.  That is assuming Blackrock, and the Fed are not mounting a fantastic FUD campaign against Bitcoin.  And I'd estimate there is a 20% chance that is exactly what they are doing.  The reason I say 20 instead of zero is they hate bitcoin at least enough to try this.  The reason I say 20 instead of 100 is these people are not generally dumb.  You do not get to where they are being dumb.  They are in control of the Earth, and they have seen what Bitcoin is.  I think they are smart enough to know they can't stop it.  So the objective from this point is to CONTROL it.  And to do that, in the style they are most accustomed to they must own so much of it that it is easier to buy their product than the real thing.  Make no mistake.  People buying into the Blackrock product (or Fidelity, or ...) are putting 100% trust  and control into the hands of the owners of those funds.  And they will issue "shares"  or "coins" or whatever they want to call it that represent a certain amount of the bitcoin they hold, and thus they can get right back to printing as they always have.  I can try to give them the benefit of the doubt that they will not try their old tricks.  But I am never able to see it as remotely possible.

So that is what we are cheering for.  And look!  I am not saying that it is all bad.  Nor am I saying that it won't set off the rocket of price appreciation.  At least for a while.  The fact of the matter is MOST Earthlings are going to need help.  AND Layer 1, on-chain transactions are going to be expensive as fuck.  The average Joe needs help.  Frankly, even the above average Lisa needs help.  

Seriously... LUKE DASHJR has his coins stolen.

So, it turns out Hal was right again.  We are going to need Bitcoin Banks.  And that is exactly what we are seeing the formation of.  And by the way... I have never thought exchanges were really "bitcoin banks".  Maybe the proto-banks.  But if you are paying attention you can see the tip of the real spear making it's way into the spotlight.

Old dogs... new tricks.
The big exchanges are all conveniently being dragged into the litigation they TOTALLY set themselves up for with all the shitcoin nonsense they did over the last 8+ years.  Or they are busy announcing their next NFT series or some other pablum designed to fleece the tiny audience they have been able to gain worldwide.  At the same time other big legacy players in the "bitcoin space" are busy having their databases stolen, or floating a way to get your private keys.  But at least Ledger is pointed in the right direction macro-strategy wise.  They have entered the race to control the money.  And though their tradeoff is terribly un-nuanced, they are at least realizing where things are going.  Hopefully they improve their strategy.

New Kid on the BLOCK.
If you thought Jack Dorsey was just a lucky nerd to invent "mico-blogging" then what he did with the Cash App should make you reconsider.  But what Block is currently doing tells me that he can see the future.  And don't get me wrong.  I am not fan-boying @jack. He is also throwing his digital hat into the ring of being the best way to hold your Bitcoin. The Bitkey hardware signer is more than a simple signer.  It is also an attempt at creating something your mom or dad could use to hold bitcoin, with SOME sovereignty and a LOT of security.  One interesting thing they have done is set up various forms of redundancy so that it makes it extremely difficult to lose your funds because of a single mistake.  I am guessing it will also integrate L2 networks as the software grows.  At least lightning which Block/Square/CashApp have already done.  But this sort of "Bank" introduces a HUGE amount of trust in Block.  I have not deeply studied the model yet, but at a glance you have to TRUST Block just like you trust JP Morgan.  And although they are dividing the power in a way that you have the majority, they are still able to act as a "safety net" which means they have a lot of control over your UTXOs (or HTLCs).  Still...  This is a good step.  And it might just find the niche that a lot of new Bitcoinners will be attracted to, and frankly better off with than trying to "be their own bank".


Cypherpunks gonna cypherpunk.
I am admittedly a bit of a fanboy of Adam Back.  And I think Blockstream is certainly one of the more important companies in Bitcoin.  Blockstream folks have contributed to Bitcoin Core, as well as producing the 2nd most used lightning implementation.  They manufacture my favorite hardware wallet (tied with Seedsigner)And they have developed Elements, the engine for their layer 2 creation: Liquid.  And though Liquid is a ghosttown still, and has been rightly criticized by people who do not matter very much anymore, it is a very compelling structure into which Bitcoin transactions can move as the fee market makes all of us tremble.  It is interoperable with lightning, and has very interesting security trade offs.  Would I use it for cold storage?  Not yet.  But I do have a non-trivial amount of value in it in anticipation of it being more important as we move forward.  Well Blockstream too has entered the Bitcoin Bank game.  Their Green wallet recently announced the ability to use lightning.  It's still experimental, and I am testing it now.  And I think it can be used both on the Bitcoin lightning network as well as Liquid lightning.  Blockstream is building one of the most compelling sets of tradeoffs.  Trust is introduced, but is distributed unlike most other horses in this race.  And what they have left to do is to make their wallet Green transparently transact on the network that makes the most sense for the end user, whether it be the base layer, Lightning or Liquid.  If they can do that then they will have a very strong business model.  Since they own the Liquid network then they can charge small fees for transactions and make their money that way.  As well as profiting from the exchange of on chain BTC with L-BTC and Lightning.  And their model leaves you ultimately sovereign and distributes risk better than others.

The best of the best for self-sovereignty.
What I really want to see has yet to emerge.  Perhaps I should try to create it... oh wait.  Is that a taco over there?  I think of it as a FOSS Firefox unlike a captured Chromium.  An implementation of an easy to use wallet that employs multiple forms of redundancy and integrates multiple layer two networks seamlessly.  Yet it is fully FOSS, fully un-owned, and run by the users.  It could integrate base layer transactions as well as lightning, and maybe even introduce some of the leading edge strategies like Chaumian Mints (Fedimint, Cashu) or even an Elements based liquid-like implementation.  The latter could be interoperable with other Elements implementations,  including Liquid itself.

Pardon me as I daydream.  But are you seeing it?  The future?  It's out there waiting for us to seize it, direct it, and make it the best it can be.  Even as "just" end users we have a lot of power.  We choose what works best for us and can help others use those tools as well.


No, Neo.  What I am telling you is when you are ready... you won't have to!
So this is where the competition in Bitcoin software is right now.  Becoming the strongest Bitcoin Bank is the prize.  And we need to help steer as many as possible to sovereign  systems as we can.  The old guard, such as the old hardware signers, as well as the big exchanges etc., should be paying attention.  They can be left in the dust in a matter of a few years.  Or sidelined to a single function, or niche use.  While they are still living in the last halving, visionaries are quietly building the rails for the machines that will run on top of Bitcoin.

In the end, we as the users... the seasoned users, need to be vigilant to guide the machines in the right direction by supporting the things that are built with the best tradeoffs.  And we must help the clueless noobs already here, as well as the hoards on the way, UNDERSTAND why every precious bit of sovereignty you trade for every promise of security and convenience must be CAREFULLY weighed.  In the end we, the users, get to OWN our money for the first time in our lifetimes.  

#CCMF


Post of the year, imo.

-------------------------
Wrapping up 23, this here sounds about right

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wCoXGMxJnk
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December 17, 2023, 10:01:14 AM


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December 17, 2023, 10:19:10 AM

to all hat-avatar wearers... maybe you are interested in being part of the next edition Wink Cool
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5478136.0
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December 17, 2023, 11:01:16 AM


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December 17, 2023, 11:03:59 AM

https://mempool.space/block/000000000000000000008ed27e5d18709c450b78367df4bfbf37dd7b9a1fb6ec

Fees are more than block rewards! mempool cost is crazy at the moment!

Is this a way to artificially suppress the price…
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December 17, 2023, 12:01:19 PM


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December 17, 2023, 01:01:16 PM


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December 17, 2023, 02:03:22 PM


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December 17, 2023, 02:25:18 PM

https://mempool.space/block/000000000000000000008ed27e5d18709c450b78367df4bfbf37dd7b9a1fb6ec

Fees are more than block rewards! mempool cost is crazy at the moment!

Is this a way to artificially suppress the price…

I don't know. This is madness. There is a second-layer shitcoin market that's currently all the rage on bitcoin, but the bubble has to pop at some point. Its gonna be brutal for them, good for everyone else.
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December 17, 2023, 03:01:19 PM


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December 17, 2023, 03:54:42 PM

This year is ending with a bitcoin price $60k?

Doubt.

Same. I don’t see us even hitting $50K this month/year. It would require breaking through some pretty long lasting resistance levels. $45K or maybe even $47K I would see as possible, but it would take a great deal of buying to get us to even $49K, let alone breaking the psychological barrier of $50K in such a short time.

my peak number was 48.1k for dec 2023
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December 17, 2023, 04:01:15 PM


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Note the unconventional cAPITALIZATION!


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December 17, 2023, 04:02:26 PM

https://mempool.space/block/000000000000000000008ed27e5d18709c450b78367df4bfbf37dd7b9a1fb6ec

Fees are more than block rewards! mempool cost is crazy at the moment!

Is this a way to artificially suppress the price…

I don't know. This is madness. There is a second-layer shitcoin market that's currently all the rage on bitcoin, but the bubble has to pop at some point. Its gonna be brutal for them, good for everyone else.

Well it might be enough to answer the question for a lot of people still wondering where miners will get their fees in the end.

Now they just need to work out why will people still be transacting in the future when fees are always so high?  

Turns out it is the same reason as why they do now... but it's OK if they need to work through it.
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December 17, 2023, 04:25:57 PM

https://mempool.space/block/000000000000000000008ed27e5d18709c450b78367df4bfbf37dd7b9a1fb6ec

Fees are more than block rewards! mempool cost is crazy at the moment!

Is this a way to artificially suppress the price…

I don't know. This is madness. There is a second-layer shitcoin market that's currently all the rage on bitcoin, but the bubble has to pop at some point. Its gonna be brutal for them, good for everyone else.

Actually this is a good thing.

Btc = a large t-bill do not make small moves with it.

Ltc and Doge = small value moves.


So buy small amounts of LTC And DOGE for small money moves.

Stack btc at an exchange until it is at least 1000 value then move it to you wallet. 1000 moved for 20 bucks is not the end of the world.

As for miners  (me) this is a good christmas. 🎄

BTW fees for btc will never be under 5 sats for extend periods of time. once the ½ ing happens.

I know of five or six ways big pools can jack fees at a profit to them.

If a dummy like me knows them the pools also know them.

Simplest one downclock you gear on the first  3 days of a jump. You save on power bigly. You clog the pool.

Fees go up. ⬆️ On fourth day put your gear on full speed.

You pull in bigger fees and more blocks.

That is an unstoppable method. ( I can not conceive of a fix for this)


And that method works better and better as each ½ ing passes.

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December 17, 2023, 04:58:45 PM
Merited by BitcoinBunny (3), Biodom (1)

OT:

I'm so glad to see movie review sites not being paid off by Hollywood anymore to write gushing reviews of terrible movies, and finally getting back to writing brutally honest critical reviews of terrible movies.

https://www.indiewire.com/criticism/movies/rebel-moon-part-one-a-child-of-fire-review-zack-snyder-netflix-1234935678/

There is now no more money left to write woke propaganda in support of terrible woke movies such as Indiana Jones and The British Arsehole Woman.
Hollywood has pretty much died on its ass this year. If it hadn't been for Barbie and Oppenheimer literally almost all Hollywood movies over $100 million can be considered failures this year (Super Mario Bros is a French/Japanese made movie distributed by Universal).

<snip>

--sorry for the long rant.  Grin

In addition to everything that you said, which even most normies these day now realize, they are also changing cinema into "corporate product" built specifically for a future of streaming.

Remember when studios were desperate to trim movies down to 1h:30m, and a series episode to 45m runtime?

Well imagine a world where directors are now being flat out told to pad their movies and tv shows with useless boring filler shots, lengthening their runtime significantly, because the studios will want to "cram as many commercial breaks as we can into them in the future".

That is already happening, without a doubt.
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December 17, 2023, 05:03:23 PM


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December 17, 2023, 05:12:02 PM

OT:

I'm so glad to see movie review sites not being paid off by Hollywood anymore to write gushing reviews of terrible movies, and finally getting back to writing brutally honest critical reviews of terrible movies.

https://www.indiewire.com/criticism/movies/rebel-moon-part-one-a-child-of-fire-review-zack-snyder-netflix-1234935678/

There is now no more money left to write woke propaganda in support of terrible woke movies such as Indiana Jones and The British Arsehole Woman.
Hollywood has pretty much died on its ass this year. If it hadn't been for Barbie and Oppenheimer literally almost all Hollywood movies over $100 million can be considered failures this year (Super Mario Bros is a French/Japanese made movie distributed by Universal).

<snip>

--sorry for the long rant.  Grin

In addition to everything that you said, which even most normies these day now realize, they are also changing cinema into "corporate product" built specifically for a future of streaming.

Remember when studios were desperate to trim movies down to 1h:30m, and a series episode to 45m runtime?

Well imagine a world where directors are now being flat out told to pad their movies and tv shows with useless boring filler shots, lengthening their runtime significantly, because the studios will want to "cram as many commercials as we can into them in the future".

That is already happening, without a doubt.

Used to love the long epic 3 hour movie stuff before (I prefer the 3 hour Superman cut over the original 2 versions except for the stupid Lex Luthor "babies" stuff, the rest is fine), but indeed recently it has seemed to me they are now padding things for padding things sake and that probably also disadvantages cinemas heavily.

Killers of the Flower Moon is the perfect example of a movie that could have had more than 1 hour trimmed off from it without losing anything significant. The Irishman I couldn't take after 2 hours in and realising it had another 2 hours to go.
Just too much repetition.

Also with MI7, which I did enjoy, it was not necessary to pad things out that much. Tom Cruise is gone far too long after the jump during the train stuff. The entire intro could have just been the CIA scene with a few images on a screen what had happened, so lose a good 10-15 minutes. I think the reveal of Tom Cruise then works far better also. The other scenes during that 25 minute intro were unnecessary. MI5 Rogue Nation had the perfect intro. Exciting, funny and just got on with it.
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December 17, 2023, 05:53:02 PM

OT:

I'm so glad to see movie review sites not being paid off by Hollywood anymore to write gushing reviews of terrible movies, and finally getting back to writing brutally honest critical reviews of terrible movies.

https://www.indiewire.com/criticism/movies/rebel-moon-part-one-a-child-of-fire-review-zack-snyder-netflix-1234935678/

There is now no more money left to write woke propaganda in support of terrible woke movies such as Indiana Jones and The British Arsehole Woman.
Hollywood has pretty much died on its ass this year. If it hadn't been for Barbie and Oppenheimer literally almost all Hollywood movies over $100 million can be considered failures this year (Super Mario Bros is a French/Japanese made movie distributed by Universal).

<snip>

--sorry for the long rant.  Grin

In addition to everything that you said, which even most normies these day now realize, they are also changing cinema into "corporate product" built specifically for a future of streaming.

Remember when studios were desperate to trim movies down to 1h:30m, and a series episode to 45m runtime?

Well imagine a world where directors are now being flat out told to pad their movies and tv shows with useless boring filler shots, lengthening their runtime significantly, because the studios will want to "cram as many commercial breaks as we can into them in the future".

That is already happening, without a doubt.

I simply refuse to watch anything with commercial brakes in the middle of actual performance (before is OK).
That's why I barely watch TV..maybe cable or streaming of channels with no commercials here and there, like HBO/Max, etc.
For those outside of US: contrary to football (called soccer in US), where there are NEVER commercials during the game (because the game never stops apart from the halftime break), American football and other sports are filled to the brim with in-game commercials, which, to me, make those events largely unwatchable 3 hr affairs.
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