Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[JayJuanGee]

Welcome to debt slavery!

Thanks for your smartass contribution, Bargainbin.

Would we label this post as a forum of desperate trolling, when you attempt to describe the beneficial (and likely even the bullish) offerings of one small company as a kind of negative? 

I would categorize this proposed BitPagos service as innovative, and we will witness the extent to which some companies are going to make money off of these kinds of services and potentially reaching segments of the currently underserved populations who may not be able to easily get small loans from traditional institutions. 

Interesting times ahead.

[aztecminer]

[blablablablablabla]
Some of the data on that site make little sense to me, however.  I don't really understand how they are calculating average blocksize as compared with median blocksize, and why there would be a difference between those two concepts (except through their definition of such).
[blablablablablabla]

https://www.vocabulary.com/articles/chooseyourwords/mean-median-average/

Hahahahahaha


I will admit that I had a brain fart, and for a moment, I was considering mean and median as the same.  

So, O.k.  I will agree that reviewing information about the median could be helpful to various analysis regarding whether there are block full problems and transaction time problems that are resulting from block fullness, and blockchain.info charts are providing the mean for blocksize, but so far, seem to not be providing the median.  At least, I have not found it, so far.

There's lies, damn lies, and then there's statistics. Any statistician will tell you the average is an awful stone age measure, then start talking about mean, median, and standard deviation to decide whether the blocks are truly full or not. However if you can't get your transaction into a block for hours even with a good fee that's all you need to know.

if juans transaction took four days to complete he would still argue with you that everything is fine in #bizarroworld of bitcoin. ...

Yes, that is a big "IF".  

My transactions are not taking four days but tend to show up immediately and usually take less than an hour.  In early March, while the blocks were supposedly full, I sent out three transactions with varying fees, and the one with the highest fees (I recall it was $.04) took about 75 minutes to complete, and the two with the low to no fees ($.01 and $.001 respectively) took close to 10 hours to complete.

In other words, you are in a fantasy world, Mr. Aztec, and transactions do not appear to be taking anywhere near 4 days to complete, even when blocks are at their fullest...  and including some small token fees seems to help speed up transaction confirmations.
 

yeah waiting over an hour for a payment to go through rocks.

Nothing wrong with that.  Bitcoin is in an interim stage of development, and we should not be expecting a 6 billion dollar market cap system to compete on the same level as various centralized credit card and other centralized payment systems (in terms of speed).. in these early and expansive days of bitcoin and its various systems.  


And, even so, these days, it seems that bitcoin is allowing a lot of value transfer, control and storage of value in ways that would be extremely expensive and even slow for final confirmation in many instances with traditional payment systems.

A couple of weeks ago, I sent 80 bitcoins (price at the time $416  - therefore $33,280), and it took about 7 minutes to be confirmed, and I was able to use the money in less than 30 minutes.  I did not do anything special on that occasion, and the standard fee was .000187 BTC  (almost $.08).   Personally, I find that transaction to be quite amazing in comparison to any other payment system (and largely decentralized in this circumstance).  

My earlier March tests of three transactions (while the blocks were supposedly full) that took 75 minutes, and nearly 10 hours for the other two, were fairly small level transactions (a little more than $1), and those transaction times and fees were acceptable, as well, yet would depend on use case, whether faster confirmation would be preferred or lower fees would be expected...

Bitcoin is not anywhere near broken, and a lot of further innovations are in the soon-to-be implemented pipeline... this year, and maybe more next year.   So, you FUCD spreaders seem to becoming less and less persuasive with your lame assertions of "emergency" and or to make supposed "brokenness of bitcoin" cries.

i disagree, i believe that is a serious problem. i own a bunch bitcoins, however, i am not going to lie to myself and try to convince myself or anyone else that there is nothing wrong with bitcoin. clearly, to anyone with intelligence, there is a problem with bitcoin taking 75 minutes to clear. online business might find bitcoin useful, however, starbucks will find it annoying.

[adamstgBit]

i disagree, i believe that is a serious problem. i own a bunch bitcoins, however, i am not going to lie to myself and try to convince myself or anyone else that there is nothing wrong with bitcoin. clearly, to anyone with intelligence, there is a problem with bitcoin taking 75 minutes to clear. online business might find bitcoin useful, however, starbucks will find it annoying.

it takes 10mins to clear if you have the appropriate 5cent fee...

[aztecminer]

$421 boring action man. Somebody wake me up from hibernation if/when we hit $700 or something.

Even in the best-case scenarios, $700 is going to be a while... Maybe 4 months or longer....?


I would think that if we get into the $480s (and possibly into the $470s would be sufficient), then it is very likely that we would be able to experience the $600s within that same price run... and the $700s seem to be quite a longer shot, especially without some correction (profit-taking) period, first.. which could cause several months of delay... but really, I would like to be wrong, and it does seem difficult to deny that bitcoin is due for some kind of upwards price explosion... I just fear that getting into the $800s would likely require movement to a new ATH (and we may not be quite ready for that, yet?).

680 is next stop

its not going to 680.. that is why they are dragging out the scaling issue. we pretend scaling issue went away because it should have... but it still didn't.

[aztecminer]

i disagree, i believe that is a serious problem. i own a bunch bitcoins, however, i am not going to lie to myself and try to convince myself or anyone else that there is nothing wrong with bitcoin. clearly, to anyone with intelligence, there is a problem with bitcoin taking 75 minutes to clear. online business might find bitcoin useful, however, starbucks will find it annoying.

it takes 10mins to clear if you have the appropriate 5cent fee...

starbucks will still find a 5min wait annoying.. i wouldn't pay .05 more a transaction for my coffee just for hell of it tax... that fee is not set in stone. it is going to continue to increase if the bloatchain continues to grow bandwidth. which is part of the argument of the "cripple coiners" who want to cripple the bloatchain to increase the fees. ... how much is .05 in bitcoin anyways.

[aztecminer]

Welcome to debt slavery!

Thanks for your smartass contribution, Bargainbin.

Would we label this post as a forum of desperate trolling, when you attempt to describe the beneficial (and likely even the bullish) offerings of one small company as a kind of negative?  

I would categorize this proposed BitPagos service as innovative, and we will witness the extent to which some companies are going to make money off of these kinds of services and potentially reaching segments of the currently underserved populations who may not be able to easily get small loans from traditional institutions.  

Interesting times ahead.

there is nothing innovating about 'interest to infinity' debt slavery systems.. we already have one that is failing miserably.. this plays into the hands of bitcoin being nothing more than a glorified fiat currency .

[dumbfbrankings]

U guise, this Barclays/Lightning Hub pump is getting a little out of control... donchathink?

I mean, let's pace ourselves, no need to buy all at once. Occasionally, optimism can take the forum of irrational exuberance.

[bargainbin]

...
Thanks for your smartass contribution, Bargainbin.

Would we label this post as a forum of desperate trolling, when you attempt to describe the beneficial (and likely even the bullish) offerings of one small company as a kind of negative?  

I would categorize this proposed BitPagos service as innovative, and we will witness the extent to which some companies are going to make money off of these kinds of services and potentially reaching segments of the currently underserved populations who may not be able to easily get small loans from traditional institutions.  

Interesting times ahead.

Well, let's see... Bitcoin, the "be your own bank" currency, created to eliminated the usurious middlemen and escape the spiral of debt slavery ...creates a new bankster class, who go on to rope in new users by offering them credit. But not free credit, like legacy CC, oh no... loans with [no doubt usurious] interest.



"This, indeed, is despair." --Soren Kierkegaard

[JayJuanGee]

[blablablablablabla]
Some of the data on that site make little sense to me, however.  I don't really understand how they are calculating average blocksize as compared with median blocksize, and why there would be a difference between those two concepts (except through their definition of such).
[blablablablablabla]

https://www.vocabulary.com/articles/chooseyourwords/mean-median-average/

Hahahahahaha


I will admit that I had a brain fart, and for a moment, I was considering mean and median as the same.  

So, O.k.  I will agree that reviewing information about the median could be helpful to various analysis regarding whether there are block full problems and transaction time problems that are resulting from block fullness, and blockchain.info charts are providing the mean for blocksize, but so far, seem to not be providing the median.  At least, I have not found it, so far.

There's lies, damn lies, and then there's statistics. Any statistician will tell you the average is an awful stone age measure, then start talking about mean, median, and standard deviation to decide whether the blocks are truly full or not. However if you can't get your transaction into a block for hours even with a good fee that's all you need to know.

if juans transaction took four days to complete he would still argue with you that everything is fine in #bizarroworld of bitcoin. ...

Yes, that is a big "IF".  

My transactions are not taking four days but tend to show up immediately and usually take less than an hour.  In early March, while the blocks were supposedly full, I sent out three transactions with varying fees, and the one with the highest fees (I recall it was $.04) took about 75 minutes to complete, and the two with the low to no fees ($.01 and $.001 respectively) took close to 10 hours to complete.

In other words, you are in a fantasy world, Mr. Aztec, and transactions do not appear to be taking anywhere near 4 days to complete, even when blocks are at their fullest...  and including some small token fees seems to help speed up transaction confirmations.
 

yeah waiting over an hour for a payment to go through rocks.

Nothing wrong with that.  Bitcoin is in an interim stage of development, and we should not be expecting a 6 billion dollar market cap system to compete on the same level as various centralized credit card and other centralized payment systems (in terms of speed).. in these early and expansive days of bitcoin and its various systems.  


And, even so, these days, it seems that bitcoin is allowing a lot of value transfer, control and storage of value in ways that would be extremely expensive and even slow for final confirmation in many instances with traditional payment systems.

A couple of weeks ago, I sent 80 bitcoins (price at the time $416  - therefore $33,280), and it took about 7 minutes to be confirmed, and I was able to use the money in less than 30 minutes.  I did not do anything special on that occasion, and the standard fee was .000187 BTC  (almost $.08).   Personally, I find that transaction to be quite amazing in comparison to any other payment system (and largely decentralized in this circumstance).  

My earlier March tests of three transactions (while the blocks were supposedly full) that took 75 minutes, and nearly 10 hours for the other two, were fairly small level transactions (a little more than $1), and those transaction times and fees were acceptable, as well, yet would depend on use case, whether faster confirmation would be preferred or lower fees would be expected...

Bitcoin is not anywhere near broken, and a lot of further innovations are in the soon-to-be implemented pipeline... this year, and maybe more next year.   So, you FUCD spreaders seem to becoming less and less persuasive with your lame assertions of "emergency" and or to make supposed "brokenness of bitcoin" cries.

i disagree, i believe that is a serious problem. i own a bunch bitcoins, however, i am not going to lie to myself and try to convince myself or anyone else that there is nothing wrong with bitcoin. clearly, to anyone with intelligence, there is a problem with bitcoin taking 75 minutes to clear. online business might find bitcoin useful, however, starbucks will find it annoying.

Yeah... You seem to be ignoring most, if not all facts in order to repeat your assertion that in your view bitcoin sucks.


As I already asserted, and should be sufficiently clear, bitcoin is not yet at the starbucks stage...  it is just not close to being mass or merchant adopted or even sufficiently user friendly for such level of micro transactions at the current time.

Surely, in the next couple of years, it seems very likely that bitcoin is going to have the potential to become incorporated into a lot of the fast transaction confirmation market... we just aren't there, yet, and therefore, describing expectations that are not there seems to be in the fantasyland self-serving territory to talk bitcoin down and to focus on deficiencies without acknowledging a large number of development attributes that are either in the wings or likely to be developed in the coming years.

[JayJuanGee]

i disagree, i believe that is a serious problem. i own a bunch bitcoins, however, i am not going to lie to myself and try to convince myself or anyone else that there is nothing wrong with bitcoin. clearly, to anyone with intelligence, there is a problem with bitcoin taking 75 minutes to clear. online business might find bitcoin useful, however, starbucks will find it annoying.

it takes 10mins to clear if you have the appropriate 5cent fee...

starbucks will still find a 5min wait annoying.. i wouldn't pay .05 more a transaction for my coffee just for hell of it tax... that fee is not set in stone. it is going to continue to increase if the bloatchain continues to grow bandwidth. which is part of the argument of the "cripple coiners" who want to cripple the bloatchain to increase the fees. ... how much is .05 in bitcoin anyways.

If you were able to support your own lame conclusions, you should be able to make simple calculations in order to show that you know what the fuck you are talking about.

It's similar to your failure and refusal to provide sufficient information regarding your coinbase limit problem.. you fail and refuse to engage in basic research and/or knowledge and selectively pick your facts.

By the way, at this time, $.05 is about a tiny bit above .0001 BTC... look at bitcoin's exchange rate.. it is about $421, and therefore, .1BTC would be $42.10, and .01 BTC would be $4.21, and .001 BTC would be $.421 and .0001 BTC would be $.0421  etc etc etc

[JayJuanGee]

...
Thanks for your smartass contribution, Bargainbin.

Would we label this post as a forum of desperate trolling, when you attempt to describe the beneficial (and likely even the bullish) offerings of one small company as a kind of negative?  

I would categorize this proposed BitPagos service as innovative, and we will witness the extent to which some companies are going to make money off of these kinds of services and potentially reaching segments of the currently underserved populations who may not be able to easily get small loans from traditional institutions.  

Interesting times ahead.

Well, let's see... Bitcoin, the "be your own bank" currency, created to eliminated the usurious middlemen and escape the spiral of debt slavery ...creates a new bankster class, who go on to rope in new users by offering them credit. But not free credit, like legacy CC, oh no... loans with [no doubt usurious] interest.

[http://s30.postimg.org/3jxn42mj5/laughting_at_you.gif[/img]

"This, indeed, is despair." --Soren Kierkegaard

O.k. "usurious middlemen."  I'm not sure how you arrived at that conclusion.  It seems to me that Western Union can be a bit usurious, but even some of these mainstream institutions have been offering some more competitive rates based on some of the low to no fees of bitcoin remittances, surely bitcoin has barely made a dent in the payment remittance market.  Furthermore, sometimes, the first innovations may be more usurious than others until more and more competition evolves.  If people have bitcoin options, they can compare those to their other options and decide whether or not to use the service.  If it is the best rate that they can get, then it could potentially be usurious, no?  Is that what you are saying?

[bargainbin]

...


"This, indeed, is despair." --Soren Kierkegaard

O.k. "usurious middlemen."  I'm not sure how you arrived at that conclusion.

Every Bitcoin loan ever: Bitcoin Forum > Economy > Marketplace > Lending. Shameless, greedy fucks exploiting their fellow degenerate gamblers bitcoin enthusiasts.
The sort of shit that brought about usury laws in the civilized legacy finance world

It seems to me that Western Union can be a bit usurious,

Western Union doesn't lend money.

but even some of these mainstream institutions have been offering some more competitive rates based on some of the low to no fees of bitcoin remittances, surely bitcoin has barely made a dent in the payment remittance market.

Your insanity is making you type annoying nonsense again.
Either that, or you don't understand the difference between lending money and sending money. WTF is wrong with you?  

Furthermore, sometimes, the first innovations may be more usurious than others until more and more competition evolves.  If people have bitcoin options, they can compare those to their other options and decide whether or not to use the service.  If it is the best rate that they can get, then it could potentially be usurious, no?  Is that what you are saying?

I'm saying "Bitcoin, the "be your own bank" currency, created to eliminated the usurious middlemen and escape the spiral of debt slavery ...creates a new bankster class, who go on to rope in new users by offering them credit. But not free credit, like legacy CC, oh no... loans with [no doubt usurious] interest."
Which part do you not get?
P.S. Almost forgot:

[Mrpumperitis]

Openbaazar, is here, lightning network has a date, halvining is getting closer...wheres the bulls? wheres the pumps? ,lol hope im wrong, but part of me thinks they worried to pump coz so many peeps made nice amounts of BTC on ETH and know they gona get dumped on.
cmon guys pump to $500 at least. 

[marcus_of_augustus]

Openbaazar, is here, lightning network has a date, halvining is getting closer...wheres the bulls? wheres the pumps? ,lol hope im wrong, but part of me thinks they worried to pump coz so many peeps made nice amounts of BTC on ETH and know they gona get dumped on.
cmon guys pump to $500 at least. 

...everybody always wants to buy cheaper .... until they can't.

Still got all those guys waiting for $150 btc ... and bunch of guys before them waiting for $40 btc.

[JayJuanGee]

...


"This, indeed, is despair." --Soren Kierkegaard

O.k. "usurious middlemen."  I'm not sure how you arrived at that conclusion.

Every Bitcoin loan ever: Bitcoin Forum > Economy > Marketplace > Lending. Shameless, greedy fucks exploiting their fellow degenerate gamblers bitcoin enthusiasts.
The sort of shit that brought about usury laws in the civilized legacy finance world

It seems to me that Western Union can be a bit usurious,

Western Union doesn't lend money.

but even some of these mainstream institutions have been offering some more competitive rates based on some of the low to no fees of bitcoin remittances, surely bitcoin has barely made a dent in the payment remittance market.

Your insanity is making you type annoying nonsense again.
Either that, or you don't understand the difference between lending money and sending money. WTF is wrong with you?  

Furthermore, sometimes, the first innovations may be more usurious than others until more and more competition evolves.  If people have bitcoin options, they can compare those to their other options and decide whether or not to use the service.  If it is the best rate that they can get, then it could potentially be usurious, no?  Is that what you are saying?

I'm saying "Bitcoin, the "be your own bank" currency, created to eliminated the usurious middlemen and escape the spiral of debt slavery ...creates a new bankster class, who go on to rope in new users by offering them credit. But not free credit, like legacy CC, oh no... loans with [no doubt usurious] interest."
Which part do you not get?
P.S. Almost forgot:

 But not free credit, like legacy CC, oh no... loans with [no doubt usurious] interest."
Which part do you not get?

My response here will largely focus on your last two sentences, because your earlier responses appear to be technical avoidances  in the form of quasi-non-sensical ad hominem attacks.

But not free credit, like legacy CC, oh no...

I would like to inform you that legacy CC is not free.  Surely, costs are spread out in various kinds of ways, but in essence cause costs upon merchants that are inevitably going to get built into consumer prices.  

 loans with [no doubt usurious] interest.

This statement goes to show that you are guessing, and you do not know any details.  You throw out the term "usurious" in order to stir shit, and you do not know any details.  And, in the event that you get called on it, then at that time, you may or may not choose to respond - to the extent that you are not successful into further distracting the conversation into nearly pure irrelevant nonsense.

Which part do you not get?

Yes, Lambie.  

Your way of attempting to belittle me by asking an inflammatory question, while you failed and/or refused to respond to my question(s) regarding how the referred to service is "usurious"  and seemingly successfully engaged in various "fun" irrelevant attempts at distracting anecdotes.

[bargainbin]

Openbaazar, is here, lightning network has a date, halvining is getting closer...wheres the bulls?...

Where they always are

[bargainbin]

...
My response here will largely focus on your last two sentences, because your earlier responses appear to be technical avoidances  in the form of quasi-non-sensical ad hominem attacks.

*nonsensical
Dear idiot:
Ad hominem reasoning is often quite appropriate:
"Ad hominem reasoning is not always fallacious, for example, when it relates to the credibility of statements of fact or when used in certain kinds of moral and practical reasoning.[3]" --wikip
But when a buffoon such as yourself is called a buffoon, it is not ad hominem reasoning, simply a statement of fact.

But not free credit, like legacy CC, oh no...

I would like to inform you that legacy CC is not free.  Surely, costs are spread out in various kinds of ways, but in essence cause costs upon merchants that are inevitably going to get built into consumer prices.  

Since your "innovative service" doesn't offer any discounts -- merely ropes in more marks into using Bitcoin with its usurious bitcoin loans (Psst, Kid! The first one's free!), its usurious interest rates are doubly usurious due to being charged *on top of the hidden costs already a part of the legacy finance (CC).
There's a special circle in hell for that sort of thing

loans with [no doubt usurious] interest.

This statement goes to show that you are guessing, and you do not know any details.  < snip >

Of course I'm guessing, it's called an educated guess. I'll repeat:
"Every Bitcoin loan ever: Bitcoin Forum > Economy > Marketplace > Lending. Shameless, greedy fucks exploiting their fellow degenerate gamblers bitcoin enthusiasts.
The sort of shit that brought about usury laws in the civilized legacy finance world "

If you would like to argue that the rates are not going to be usurious (this innovative Bitcoin lending service is going to be completely unlike the rest of innovative Bitcoin lending services, which is to say "won't rape people up the butt"), you're making an extraordinary claim, and, as such, the burden of proof is yours

Your way of attempting to belittle me ...

Untreue. Simply showing you that you're clueless.

[jertsy]

Openbaazar, is here, lightning network has a date, halvining is getting closer...wheres the bulls? wheres the pumps? ,lol hope im wrong, but part of me thinks they worried to pump coz so many peeps made nice amounts of BTC on ETH and know they gona get dumped on.
cmon guys pump to $500 at least.  

...everybody always wants to buy cheaper .... until they can't.

Still got all those guys waiting for $150 btc ... and bunch of guys before them waiting for $40 btc.

I read an old post about people waiting for Bitcoin to go back below a dollar, but it only went down to $2 so they all lost out. Before the last low people were waiting for it to go down to $80, but it only went down to $160. Next time it crashes I'm going to set buy orders at double to most pessimistic price because that's usually as low as it goes.

[AlexGR]

Any idea how long ago this was introduced into google? I just stumbled upon it while checking some currency ratios:



It has a price chart (not very detailed but anyway) and realtime conversion to other currencies.... nice.

[bargainbin]

Any idea how long ago this was introduced into google? I just stumbled upon it while checking some currency ratios:



It has a price chart (not very detailed but anyway) and realtime conversion to other currencies.... nice.

~2 years ago.
http://www.cnet.com/news/google-adds-bitcoin-to-its-currency-conversion/ (July 16, 2014)