Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[Killerpotleaf]

give blocksize to the free market and you'll have the best fucking blocksize there ever was.

If you ever figure out that bitcoin is a currency and not money, you'll know that it's market cap has to be floated by sheer transaction volume and not as a store of value.  Unlike what Hal Finney thought might happen, bitcoin does not have value as a settlement layer in a free market without coercion.  Bitcoin can never compete with metals on Exter's pyramid because gold and silver demolish it as a store of value due to being more anti-fragile (colloquial use of the word, FU jbreher).  

As soon as the bitcoin market cap topped out, people would immediately dump them all for metals instead.  There is no point in attempting to store generational wealth in an inferior medium for no reason that can be gone with the wind at random.  Bitcoin can be destroyed by all kinds of things while it takes something like a black hole hitting the earth to black swan metals.  The only way bitcoin has any hopes of competing with gold and silver is in utility, not trying to replicate what gold and silver already do and doing so in a worse manner.

The point is, current on-chain scaling will all result in bitcoin still being a settlement layer.  If you try to design bitcoin as a settlement layer, I believe it will fail because it can't compete with gold and silver in that regard.  You'd need to be getting into the thousands of TPS for it not to be a settlement layer, then people aren't required to store huge sums of money in it (as governed by what's economical due to transaction fees) where you'd basically be forced to use bitcoin as your savings account if you wish to use it at all with on-chain scaling.

The only way out of that conundrum is transaction bundling in some type of LN-like system.  Whether an LN-type system can be made to work in a decentralized manner is a different story.  Another inconvenient fact is that bitcoin's endgame security when block reward hits 0 and LN both might require inflation to work.

I agree with mostly all that.i think your right on the money with bitcoin NEEDs to be more then a "settlement layer", altho it does have some distinct advantages over gold even only at that.
I think a combination of market driven blocksize  + Offline payments VIA LN + offline payments VIA "FACEBOOK DB"
will allow bitcoin to scale well, and be able to incombouse all of the worlds TX with relaitive eass
and give it 10 years and internet speeds will have 100X thanks to fibe, and none of this blocksize limite bullshit will mean anything anyway.

bitcoin can scale and it will in all directions.
have a little faith.

[r0ach]

on Exter's pyramid because gold and silver

Exter's pyramid does not include silver. I would think you of all people would know this.

The only purpose of metals is to remove counter party risk while satisfying a few other traits of money such as divisibility, durability, portability, fungibility, etc.  Of all the things we can use as money, the noble metals come out on top to fulfill all the required traits.  Out of the small number of noble metals that exist, only gold, silver, platinum, and paladium can really function well.  Gold was utilized as the main form of money due to corrosion resistance, but more granularity was needed so silver was added.  There's no real point in adding platinum and palladium since they're similar scarcity to gold (no real granularity benefit and just adds more confusion).

The corrosion resistance difference between gold and silver is really meaningless in terms of currency usage, and is offset by the fact that silver doesn't deform as easy in circulation and offers increased granularity.  Gold can't remove counter party risk on it's own, so the extra granularity is needed for the job.  You would likley even have to go a step further and reintroduce copper as well.  There is no real scenario where you would utilize gold and not silver because the entire point of metals is remove counter party risk.

I talked about that more in depth here:  
http://steemit.com/money/@r0achtheunsavory/the-r0ach-report-vol-8-the-real-fundamentals-involving-gold-silver-and-copper-as-money

[Ibian]

Exter is a hack.

Bitcoin is what it is and does what it does. I use it as a store of value. This value is several times higher than it used to be. I also make money trading it and helping people who are less computer savvy trade it. And I use it to pay for stuff.

Some people find value in that.

[PoolMinor]

on Exter's pyramid because gold and silver

Exter's pyramid does not include silver. I would think you of all people would know this.

The only purpose of metals is to remove counter party risk while satisfying a few other traits of money such as divisibility, durability, portability, fungibility, etc.  Of all the things we can use as money, the noble metals come out on top to fulfill all the required traits.  Out of the small number of noble metals that exist, only gold, silver, platinum, and paladium can really function well.  Gold was utilized as the main form of money due to corrosion resistance, but more granularity was needed so silver was added.  There's no real point in adding platinum and palladium since they're similar scarcity to gold (no real granularity benefit and just adds more confusion).

The corrosion resistance difference between gold and silver is really meaningless in terms of currency usage, and is offset by the fact that silver doesn't deform as easy in circulation and offers increased granularity.  Gold can't remove counter party risk on it's own, so the extra granularity is needed for the job.  You would likley even have to go a step further and reintroduce copper as well.  There is no real scenario where you would utilize gold and not silver because the entire point of metals is remove counter party risk.

I talked about that more in depth here:  
http://steemit.com/money/@r0achtheunsavory/the-r0ach-report-vol-8-the-real-fundamentals-involving-gold-silver-and-copper-as-money

[Ibian]

And hey, I would fucking love if we went back to using real gold and silver as money. But it's never going to happen again.

[r0ach]

And hey, I would fucking love if we went back to using real gold and silver as money. But it's never going to happen again.

Says who?  Your dreams where you think bitcoin is going to $10 million each and metals are going to 0? LOL.  It even seems like some US states are going to pass laws where you don't have to pay capital gains on appreciation of metals as long as they're in the form of US currency (gold and silver eagles, buffalos, etc), because they said converting from one form of US currency to another shouldn't be a taxable event - like changing from 1 dollar to 4 quarters.  If bitcoin did not get this same benefit in tax law in the US it would be screwed trying to compete with metals.

[Ibian]

And hey, I would fucking love if we went back to using real gold and silver as money. But it's never going to happen again.

Says who?  Your dreams where you think bitcoin is going to $10 million each and metals are going to 0? LOL.  It even seems like some US states are going to pass laws where you don't have to pay capital gains on appreciation of metals as long as they're in the form of US currency (gold and silver eagles, buffalos, etc), because they said converting from one form of US currency to another shouldn't be a taxable event - like changing from 1 dollar to 4 quarters.  If bitcoin did not get this same benefit in tax law in the US it would be screwed trying to compete with metals.

If it ever happens you can come back and have fun saying you told me so. Till then...

[Karartma1]

I had the same thinking about the decision. I'm pretty sure it will be announced on Monday at this point it it gets approved. Otherwise, as you mention, it may be possible a delay that may sparkle another weekend bull run.

[r0ach]

it may be possible a delay that may sparkle another weekend bull run.

Just get adamstgBit to do his rally dance

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmfE4KAZicY

[york780]

Bitcoin is going to triple its value guys! Its a shme that my account isnt old enough to post the charts as proof, but look at 1-12-2013 and 27-02-2017. Excact same trend. This dump launched a bull run the is going to exist for 3 years if we look at the moving averages! See you at 3k , enjoy !

[rjclarke2000]

Bitcoin is going to triple its value guys! Its a shme that my account isnt old enough to post the charts as proof, but look at 1-12-2013 and 27-02-2017. Excact same trend. This dump launched a bull run the is going to exist for 3 years if we look at the moving averages! See you at 3k , enjoy !

3k? Adam promised 32k

[600watt]

have you noticed how strong kraken/€ is getting lately?

currently it has surpassed bitstamp, okcoin and btcchina in daily volume. it also seems more volatile than the other exchanges.

does anybody have a clue why?

[r0ach]

Bitcoin is going to triple its value guys! Its a shme that my account isnt old enough to post the charts as proof, but look at 1-12-2013 and 27-02-2017. Excact same trend. This dump launched a bull run the is going to exist for 3 years if we look at the moving averages! See you at 3k , enjoy !

3k? Adam promised 32k

He promised me 32,000 MB blocks

[kurious]

have you noticed how strong kraken/€ is getting lately?

currently it has surpassed bitstamp, okcoin and btcchina in daily volume. it also seems more volatile than the other exchanges.

does anybody have a clue why?

I suspect Europeans and especially those based in the UK like to trade in Euros.  Even in the UK if you cash out on Stamp, you have to lose a lot in charges to get it sent by SEPA (in €) to then arrive at your bank in € and finally be turned into GBP - which has a cost, too.  I can cost up to $80 just to get a couple of BTC worth of cash to a UK Bank from BTC on stamp.

It's the first time a genuinely liquid € exchange has been out there and there are a lot of Europeans (far more than the population of the USA) living in what is a shaky and uncertain continent who need BTC too. 

[BlackOne]

have you noticed how strong kraken/€ is getting lately?

currently it has surpassed bitstamp, okcoin and btcchina in daily volume. it also seems more volatile than the other exchanges.

does anybody have a clue why?

Today is a EZB intesest decision at i think 2 PM European Time. Will be maybe a reason

[Ted E. Bare]

Bottom reached?

[becoin]

Who sold at the bottom?

[LFC_Bitcoin]

Who sold at the bottom?

Lots of dumb sheep in here, I bet.

[york780]

Who bought at the bottom?

[rjclarke2000]

Who bought at the bottom?

I was buying like crazy at $200. Does that count?