Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[FractalUniverse]

The other advantage ETH has is the psychological advance of price. When people buy something they are not looking at market cap, they say hey ETH is $300 and bitcoin is $3000, I am buying ETH because it is going to be worth $3000 soon. It is not logical but it is the reason stock splits are common, people like to buy 10 of something that is $100 rather than 1 of something that is $1000.

with that logic they can buy ETC, its even cheaper and not different from ETH. this all looks just like hype

[Lauda]

The only thing that can possibly stop ETH in my opinion is another hack worse than the first. I think it is more likely that in 10 years ETH will be king and we will all look back and the reasons will be obvious as to why.

Well, enjoy your corporation & government controlled "money" which isn't actually supposed to be P2P money nor digital gold. ETH and Bitcoin differ, albeit people who are greedy want them to compete for said reasons. It will suffer even greater scalability issues, and it has a "de-facto" king Vitalik who decides where it is going and what will be done. I came to Bitcoin because of the original vision of cryptocurrencies, which is decentralization and whatever came with it. If you think that "ETH" is the "de-facto" money making machine, then you are delusional yourself. Much higher ROI can be found elsewhere. Anyhow, there are already superior coins to ETH in the works, e.g. Byteball.
That off-topic, ETH shitcoin shilling put aside: Someone seems to dislike the thought of $2900 in Western exchanges. China is constitently pushing towards $3k.

Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 2871.53, vol: 8871.32717327 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 2814.799, vol: 4544.12646 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 2831.6, vol: 12651.23545533 | GDAX BTCUSD last: 2881.01, vol: 15282.4883681 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 2985.785786, vol: 10908.95090000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 2850.12, vol: 5121.81429577 | Gemini BTCUSD last: 2849.97, vol: 6355.3889021 | OKCoin BTCUSD last: 2993.461464,

Bitstamp | There are currently 948.98854 bitcoins offered at or under 3000.0 USD, worth 2805809.9107 USD in total. | Data vintage: 2.3874 seconds
Bitfinex | There are currently 1723.2351 bitcoins offered at or under 3000.0 USD, worth 5054460.387 USD in total. | Data vintage: 0.0049 seconds

[Gyrsur]

By the tone of your posts; "Nothing can stop ETH now, it's proven itself. It's gonna keep going up forever", I'd say it's definitely near a top.

The only thing that can possibly stop ETH in my opinion is another hack worse than the first. I think it is more likely that in 10 years ETH will be king and we will all look back and the reasons will be obvious as to why.

Ether bubble will burst anytime in the future. can you tell me a use case of Ethereum which is Live today?

for the use case of digital money we have Bitcoin.

https://medium.com/@yobanjo/how-etheroll-and-other-dapps-will-kill-ethereum-e973d8e1c465

[DieJohnny]

By the tone of your posts; "Nothing can stop ETH now, it's proven itself. It's gonna keep going up forever", I'd say it's definitely near a top.

The only thing that can possibly stop ETH in my opinion is another hack worse than the first. I think it is more likely that in 10 years ETH will be king and we will all look back and the reasons will be obvious as to why.

Ether bubble will burst anytime in the future. can you tell me a use case of Ethereum which is Live today?

for the use case of digital money we have Bitcoin.

https://medium.com/@yobanjo/how-etheroll-and-other-dapps-will-kill-ethereum-e973d8e1c465

Bitcoin is not really digital money. It tried to be for a while, but Dell dropped Bitcoin recently, Egghead and Overstock haven't seen any benefits. Bitcoin is primarily a store of value more than anything else. For example, with a $15 transfer fee nobody is buying a t-shirt with Bitcoin. But will someone put $100k into bitcoin as a safe haven and pay a $15 fee, sure you bet they will.

Bitcoin has value today because it is trusted as a safe place to guard your welath, safer than anything else. People have extreme confidence in Bitcoin itself, vastly more so than Ethereum.

Ethereum's use case is the platform of the new Money 2.0 economy. Bitcoin introduced the concept, but without any doubt whatsoever nearly EVERY significant money 2.0 project is built on Ethereum not Bitcoin. The asset list on coinmarketcap proves Ethereum's use case. Ethereum is doing exactly what Vitalik set out for it to do. Bitcoin digital asset projects are garbage in comparison.

[Denker]

The only thing that can possibly stop ETH in my opinion is another hack worse than the first. I think it is more likely that in 10 years ETH will be king and we will all look back and the reasons will be obvious as to why.

Well, enjoy your corporation & government controlled "money" which isn't actually supposed to be P2P money nor digital gold. ETH and Bitcoin differ, albeit people who are greedy want them to compete for said reasons. It will suffer even greater scalability issues, and it has a "de-facto" king Vitalik who decides where it is going and what will be done. I came to Bitcoin because of the original vision of cryptocurrencies, which is decentralization and whatever came with it. If you think that "ETH" is the "de-facto" money making machine, then you are delusional yourself. Much higher ROI can be found elsewhere. Anyhow, there are already superior coins to ETH in the works, e.g. Byteball.
That off-topic, ETH shitcoin shilling put aside: Someone seems to dislike the thought of $2900 in Western exchanges. China is constitently pushing towards $3k.

Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 2871.53, vol: 8871.32717327 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 2814.799, vol: 4544.12646 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 2831.6, vol: 12651.23545533 | GDAX BTCUSD last: 2881.01, vol: 15282.4883681 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 2985.785786, vol: 10908.95090000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 2850.12, vol: 5121.81429577 | Gemini BTCUSD last: 2849.97, vol: 6355.3889021 | OKCoin BTCUSD last: 2993.461464,

Bitstamp | There are currently 948.98854 bitcoins offered at or under 3000.0 USD, worth 2805809.9107 USD in total. | Data vintage: 2.3874 seconds
Bitfinex | There are currently 1723.2351 bitcoins offered at or under 3000.0 USD, worth 5054460.387 USD in total. | Data vintage: 0.0049 seconds

Well said! This thing is going to end as a corporate coin, platform. And Vitalik and his buddies will be the powers that be its' puppets! And if he should reject...well Guantanamo or Gulag!  
Centralized as f*** no matter if they use a Blockchain or not, which by the way is pretty mutable as we know!
No this has indeed nothing to do with the real vison of decentralized crypto currencies!
Bitcoin is and will be the real, true decentralized coin, available and usable by anyone in the world.

[conspirosphere.tk]

Someone seems to dislike the thought of $2900 in Western exchanges. China is constitently pushing towards $3k.

The question is how BTC will behave in the epic bust that many are expecting imminently, because even gold crashed in 2008.
Staying somewhat liquid could be advisable.

[JayJuanGee]

Shorting ETH/BTC is probably a very good idea right now.

People have been saying this for about two years, and still does not seem to be happening in any kind of long term way... Go figure.

I am no fan of Ethereum, but the facts are the facts - it has performed way beyond the expectations of a large number of bitcoin folks, even though the ethereum pie in the sky 14 year old dreamers, indicated that this was in the cards and bitcoin 2.0.. blah blah blah.

[AlexGR]

Bitcoin is not really digital money. It tried to be for a while, but Dell dropped Bitcoin recently, Egghead and Overstock haven't seen any benefits.

I *think* I read in the past that Overstock wasn't selling the BTCs they were getting. If that's the case, then it's highly unlikely that they haven't seen any benefits with bitcoin multiplying its value.

[HI-TEC99]

Someone seems to dislike the thought of $2900 in Western exchanges. China is constitently pushing towards $3k.

The question is how BTC will behave in the epic bust that many are expecting imminently, because even gold crashed in 2008.
Staying somewhat liquid could be advisable.

That's Bitcoin's use case. When banks start going bankrupt Bitcoin's going to get pumped higher than any of us can imagine. During the next wave of bank bankruptcies they will be bailing themselves out with our money taken from our bank accounts. Even the people that own the banks will be putting their money into Bitcoin rather than bank accounts that are guaranteed a 50% haircut.

[Master mind]

Someone seems to dislike the thought of $2900 in Western exchanges. China is constitently pushing towards $3k.

The question is how BTC will behave in the epic bust that many are expecting imminently, because even gold crashed in 2008.
Staying somewhat liquid could be advisable.

That's Bitcoin's use case. When banks start going bankrupt Bitcoin's going to get pumped higher than any of us can imagine. During the next wave of bank bankruptcies they will be bailing themselves out with our money taken from our bank accounts. Even the people that own the banks will be putting their money into Bitcoin rather than bank accounts that are guaranteed a 50% haircut.

And transaction fee will be 1000$ .

[Arcteryx]

By the tone of your posts; "Nothing can stop ETH now, it's proven itself. It's gonna keep going up forever", I'd say it's definitely near a top.

The only thing that can possibly stop ETH in my opinion is another hack worse than the first. I think it is more likely that in 10 years ETH will be king and we will all look back and the reasons will be obvious as to why.

Ether bubble will burst anytime in the future. can you tell me a use case of Ethereum which is Live today?

for the use case of digital money we have Bitcoin.

https://medium.com/@yobanjo/how-etheroll-and-other-dapps-will-kill-ethereum-e973d8e1c465

Bitcoin is not really digital money. It tried to be for a while, but Dell dropped Bitcoin recently, Egghead and Overstock haven't seen any benefits. Bitcoin is primarily a store of value more than anything else. For example, with a $15 transfer fee nobody is buying a t-shirt with Bitcoin. But will someone put $100k into bitcoin as a safe haven and pay a $15 fee, sure you bet they will.

Bitcoin has value today because it is trusted as a safe place to guard your welath, safer than anything else. People have extreme confidence in Bitcoin itself, vastly more so than Ethereum.

Ethereum's use case is the platform of the new Money 2.0 economy. Bitcoin introduced the concept, but without any doubt whatsoever nearly EVERY significant money 2.0 project is built on Ethereum not Bitcoin. The asset list on coinmarketcap proves Ethereum's use case. Ethereum is doing exactly what Vitalik set out for it to do. Bitcoin digital asset projects are garbage in comparison.

So you think this will make the price of bitcoin go down from the words of the Vitalik?
The banks are looking towards ethereum as a way to control digital transactions using the blockchain technology in what they have seen being displayed using etherscan.

[Gyrsur]

Someone seems to dislike the thought of $2900 in Western exchanges. China is constitently pushing towards $3k.

The question is how BTC will behave in the epic bust that many are expecting imminently, because even gold crashed in 2008.
Staying somewhat liquid could be advisable.

That's Bitcoin's use case. When banks start going bankrupt Bitcoin's going to get pumped higher than any of us can imagine. During the next wave of bank bankruptcies they will be bailing themselves out with our money taken from our bank accounts. Even the people that own the banks will be putting their money into Bitcoin rather than bank accounts that are guaranteed a 50% haircut.

And transaction fee will be 1000$ .

6. Incentive

By convention, the first transaction in a block is a special transaction that starts a new coin owned by the creator of the block. This adds an incentive for nodes to support the network, and provides a way to initially distribute coins into circulation, since there is no central authority to issue them. The steady addition of a constant of amount of new coins is analogous to gold miners expending resources to add gold to circulation. In our case, it is CPU time and electricity that is expended.

The incentive can also be funded with transaction fees. If the output value of a transaction is less than its input value, the difference is a transaction fee that is added to the incentive value of the block containing the transaction. Once a predetermined number of coins have entered circulation, the incentive can transition entirely to transaction fees and be completely inflation free.

[DieJohnny]

By the tone of your posts; "Nothing can stop ETH now, it's proven itself. It's gonna keep going up forever", I'd say it's definitely near a top.

The only thing that can possibly stop ETH in my opinion is another hack worse than the first. I think it is more likely that in 10 years ETH will be king and we will all look back and the reasons will be obvious as to why.

Ether bubble will burst anytime in the future. can you tell me a use case of Ethereum which is Live today?

for the use case of digital money we have Bitcoin.

https://medium.com/@yobanjo/how-etheroll-and-other-dapps-will-kill-ethereum-e973d8e1c465

Bitcoin is not really digital money. It tried to be for a while, but Dell dropped Bitcoin recently, Egghead and Overstock haven't seen any benefits. Bitcoin is primarily a store of value more than anything else. For example, with a $15 transfer fee nobody is buying a t-shirt with Bitcoin. But will someone put $100k into bitcoin as a safe haven and pay a $15 fee, sure you bet they will.

Bitcoin has value today because it is trusted as a safe place to guard your welath, safer than anything else. People have extreme confidence in Bitcoin itself, vastly more so than Ethereum.

Ethereum's use case is the platform of the new Money 2.0 economy. Bitcoin introduced the concept, but without any doubt whatsoever nearly EVERY significant money 2.0 project is built on Ethereum not Bitcoin. The asset list on coinmarketcap proves Ethereum's use case. Ethereum is doing exactly what Vitalik set out for it to do. Bitcoin digital asset projects are garbage in comparison.

So you think this will make the price of bitcoin go down from the words of the Vitalik?
The banks are looking towards ethereum as a way to control digital transactions using the blockchain technology in what they have seen being displayed using etherscan.

I can only see Bitcoin going down if trust is broken somehow with the coming potential fork. Yes there will be corrections, but bitcoin is I believe a permanent diversification asset in the minds of the entire planet. That won't go away just because of a competitor. In fact, I would argue that Ethereum is NOT competing for the same dollars entirely that goes into Bitcoin.

[bitserve]

I think we need to do a little pause here and evaluate what is hapenning here with the altcoins market.

It seems that one of the reasons behind the crazy surge of ethereum have been the ICO's. Please someone correct me if I am wrong, but this is my view of it:

- There have been lots of ICO's based on ethereum, so that means people need to buy ethereum to join the ico's. That, obviously, pumps the price.

- Previous ICO's have been such sucessfull (not in developing anything of real usage, but in price surge, speculation) that everybody wants to be part of ANY ICO to replicate those incredible price increases.

- Most ICO funders have almost no special knowledge in the area of expertise needed for the future project that are suppossed to develop. Ie: Look at the board members of Primalbase.

- I have tried to analise some of the ICO's in offer (or past ones) trying to find some fundamentals and all I find is vapoware.

- Also, I find nowhere in the terms any protection for the "investor". Unlike when you invest on a business and you have some specific legal rights, in these ICO's it's all nonsense wording. In most cases, nothing stops them for not developing, for just spend the money on their salaries or even for developing a profitable business and those gains not be directly related to tokens pricing nor dividends. They are totally separate things no matter what they "promise".

- There's no point in using the ICO funds on developing any business while the best business atm would be just to hold the coins and sell them afterwards.

- So noone is selling in order to develop the business... maybe just a little part to pay for the funders salary.

- When the pump stops, they will need to finally spend some of the ICO funds to finally develop the intended business.

- When that happens, and many of the ICO's sell, the price will drop as a stone. All the gains vanished.


The case of Primalbase makes for a good example of all this. It's basically a "real state" investment. Usually those have an expected annual return of around 10% when in the hands of real experts. They basically plan to start with the office they themselves are using/are renting/own. What does this tell me?

a) In case they own the office, they will probably buy it from themselves using the ICO money. Do you think they will negotiate hard to get a great price for their investors?

b) In case they are renting it.... don't you think they will use their own tokens to pay for the renting and basically not having to pay for it anymore (basically the ICO funds will pay for it).

c) Why nowhere in the whitepaper are ANY of the data that would be requiered to do due diligence before investing in any business?

d) Do people know that MANY "real life" investments simply fail? Are investors really aware of that? I don't see the usual investment disclaimers and if they are there, they are not front page, but negligently hidden. Do they know they are in a EXTREMELY HIGH risk investment for a theoretical expected return (in best case) of a mere 10%?

I could go on... but the conclusion is that some time in the future those ICO's will need to develop or die, and most probably will die. I can't see any reason why that castle won't start crumbling, I just don't know when will that happen. And I hope that when that happens it will be positive for Bitcoin and not carry it with ethereums doom.

Please someone correct me if I am wrong in my view of current scenario.

[julian071]

Strange things, Kraken going so low compared to the other exchanges. Spread was big now and then.

[FractalUniverse]

omg it looks like failed retest of ATH and now dump

[DieJohnny]

I think we need to do a little pause here and evaluate what is hapenning here with the altcoins market.

but the conclusion is that some time in the future those ICO's will need to develop or die, and most probably will die. I can't see any reason why that castle won't start crumbling, I just don't know when will that happen.

This is entirely true but a collapse does not happen over night, and for just one company can take years, in ETH case you have 50 startups all with their own dreams of world domination.

Also, The difference between a ponzi scheme and a legit business model is not as bright and clear of a line as everyone would like to believe. A company can survive for a decade on selling just its vision. Even longer if you have a strong enough visionary model. Just look at Amazon, Uber, and even Facebook the first few years. All of them initially huge money losers but their vision of the future was so strong that investment dollars came in for a decade. That is happening now to crypto companies.

I have always contended that these ICO assets are simply a modern security. I actually think much, much better at passing the good fortune of a company's success on to early investors than a stupid Stock. If the economy of the company is driven by the asset, then anyone that owns the asset will reap a reward as that company's economy grows. It is the future of securities in my opinion and makes owning stock feel stupid in comparison.

That said the part you are missing is that 1) it takes years for phony business models to crash, we are in year 1 of ICO insanity, this could go on for five more years and that is if they ALL failed 2) not all of these will fail, some will succeed dramatically, validating the model and supporting the platform (ETH), 3) the only real risk to ETHs platform is regulation, however, that only slows the model and doesn't destroy it in my opinion.

So crashes will happen, but unless a flaw in ETH exposes an across-the-board ownership weakness this train is not stopping and each crashed coin will be replaced by 10 new startups.

[luckygenough56]

still time to dump at that inflated price

[FractalUniverse]

looks like some shitcoins are starting to fall, this may turn into major one. lets see

[White sugar]

ETH failing to perform even when bitcoin is crashing...

But then again, it's gone up 17% today.

Is Bitcoin crashing

Last time I checked price was above $2800, maybe I missed a mini rally in the hours I was offline